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Carry only 2 QBs on the roster this year?

Matt in SGS : 6/12/2019 11:11 am
So this topic came up on the Giant Insider podcast that I was listening to this morning and I didn't give it much thought at the prior to it getting raised, but it makes sense to further discuss.

As we know, most teams carry 3 QBs (starter, backup, and emergency QB). For a number or years under Coughlin, knowing Eli's penchant/luck for not getting hurt and having a fairly capable backup (Carr comes to mind), Coughlin decided to carry only 2 QBs and use that extra roster spot for an additional player.

Let's look at this year. Eli is the starter and Jones is the backup. Yes, you have Tanney and Lauletta on the roster, but those guys will not see the field at all until disaster strikes. And if they are playing, the season has gone in the toilet anyway.

Considering the depth the Giants suddenly have at defensive back, and perhaps trying to keep an extra tight end, would it make more sense for the Giants to go with 2 QBs? The x-factor is Dungey. If the Giants truely see Dungey in the mold of a Hill in New Orleans, they will list him at a different position (TE or whatever) but he could see the field in different situations as a QB.

For me, I see no point of keeping Tanney. Again, for him to ever see the field, that means that Eli and Jones both got hurt. If we are in that situation, we start looking at a high 2020 pick so who cares. Tanney is another Jim Sorgi, Jim Miller, etc veteran journeyman type. Lauletta to me has more promise because if the Giants think they can develop him further, you need a backup in 2020 behind Jones (assuming Eli has moved on/retired).

Ultimately, that might be the end result. If Lauletta shows he can play and there is a "there there", maybe the Giants keep 3 QBs. If not, I'd assume save the slot to keep an extra defensive back.
I play a GM and HC on TV.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/12/2019 11:12 am : link
I would only keep 2 going into regular season
Since I am not a fan of Lauletta  
Jay on the Island : 6/12/2019 11:17 am : link
unless he shows progress in training camp, I would prefer to carry two with Lauletta going to the practice squad.

I am convinced that Tanney will not be signed by another team if he is cut so the Giants could just tell him to stay in shape in case they need him later in the season.
the problem with 2 QBs  
ron mexico : 6/12/2019 11:18 am : link
is one of them have to run the scout team and can't be 100% dedicated to being the back up.

Thats fine when you have a iron man like Eli in his prime and a very experienced backup like Carr but doesn't work well in our current situation

The hope is  
Jay on the Island : 6/12/2019 11:20 am : link
that Lauletta is the long term backup option for Jones. If he does show enough improvement in camp and the preseason the Giants won't want to risk losing him by trying to sneak him onto the practice squad.
How  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/12/2019 11:20 am : link
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?
Trouble is  
English Alaister : 6/12/2019 11:21 am : link
then you need to find a new backup next year when Eli is gone. KL is relatively cheap so I'd say keep him around unless he really stinks in the pre-season.
What's the Role of FB in Shurmurs Offense?  
Rafflee : 6/12/2019 11:23 am : link
I'm thinking that the team may want to save head count at RB and FB...maybe one or two of the TE/HB's can fulfill a role as a lead blocker, and Pass Catcher out of the Backfield.

This all plays out when they actually start playing football--performance, injury, trade possibilities.

I don't think Lauletta is an automatic Drop. The negative talk around him may be helpful in allowing them to keep and develop him---if they thought he was not a development prospect, he would ALREADY be gone.

Conrad?...Dungey???? Can either be a Blocking TE...or lead blocker. Are they more than Cinderellas?

I'm excited to see the Giants... I'd like to see them show theyve turned the corner

I think Lauletta stays.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/12/2019 11:24 am : link
He would be a cost controlled backup QB for Jones, once Eli is released.
if Lauletta  
Enzo : 6/12/2019 11:30 am : link
shows anything in camp I would keep him and go with 3. A young/cheap option on the depth chart would be a good thing post-Eli.
couldn't dungee  
V.I.G. : 6/12/2019 11:30 am : link
be the scout team qb on the practice squad?
The Dungey-Hill comparison is flawed IMO.  
NoPeanutz : 6/12/2019 11:32 am : link
Saints can run Hill gimmicks only because they have a top offense and a great team, and teams fear their conventional playbook.
If your offense is crap, or at best one-dimensional, like Giants' has been for several years, you can't gimmick with Taysom Hill.
If the Giants like Dungey as a player at any position, that's great. If they think he brings Hill-like versatility- I am skeptical.
2  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 6/12/2019 11:33 am : link
We got an Ironman qb and a pro ready rook. About time this team realize roster spots are valuable.
It Doesn't Really Matter That Much  
Jim in Tampa : 6/12/2019 11:37 am : link
The handwringing over keeping three QBs has always mystified me.

If a team keeps three QBs instead of two they are in effect cutting their 53rd best player.

Look at a team’s final cuts and pick out the best player of the bunch. That’s the guy a team is cutting to keep the third QB. If they only keep two QBs and that 53rd best player makes the roster, chances are he doesn’t dress for most games and if and when he does see the field he likely won’t make that much of an impact anyway. He’s a very replaceable part.

Does anyone have an example of a “53rd best player” being cut by the Giants and making it big elsewhere? Other than some kickers that they wouldn’t have kept and McCaffrey (who they might not have kept anyway) I really can’t think of anyone.

RE: How  
AcidTest : 6/12/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?


Very badly. They better hope they got it right with Jones, because they've missed on every QB since Eli. None even became competent backups.
RE: the problem with 2 QBs  
KeoweeFan : 6/12/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14470336 ron mexico said:
Quote:
is one of them have to run the scout team and can't be 100% dedicated to being the back up.

Thats fine when you have a iron man like Eli in his prime and a very experienced backup like Carr but doesn't work well in our current situation

IF they keep Dungey, can he run the scout team?
RE: RE: the problem with 2 QBs  
ron mexico : 6/12/2019 11:49 am : link
In comment 14470377 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 14470336 ron mexico said:


Quote:


is one of them have to run the scout team and can't be 100% dedicated to being the back up.

Thats fine when you have a iron man like Eli in his prime and a very experienced backup like Carr but doesn't work well in our current situation



IF they keep Dungey, can he run the scout team?


possibly, if he is not heavily involved in the game plan as a TE.

A PS player could do it as well but you want a certain level of capability and dependability that a PS player might not be able to guarantee


RE: How  
BillT : 6/12/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?

Just as badly as they missed on Lauletta when the drafted him. It was always a head scratcher of a pic. They made a mistake. It happens.
RE: How  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/12/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?


Why did anyone ever think Lauletta was going to more then just a backup?

They weren't thrilled with Webb (Webb had some upside, people thought he could be a 1st round level QB if they worked out some of the kinks in his mechanics) and that's why they took Lauletta, who has the things they were looking for in their QB.

I don't get the Lauletta was eventually going to be the next QB crowd at all.
RE: I think Lauletta stays.  
Tuckrule : 6/12/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14470349 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
He would be a cost controlled backup QB for Jones, once Eli is released.


Who’s also mobile. I agree with thisb
RE: if Lauletta  
TMS : 6/12/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14470358 Enzo said:
Quote:
shows anything in camp I would keep him and go with 3. A young/cheap option on the depth chart would be a good thing post-Eli.
. Agree with this conclusion. They may see more progress with Lauletta than we are hearing.
They will carry three.  
Red Dog : 6/12/2019 12:11 pm : link
Shurmur likes a full QB room.

That said, Lauletta is going to have to show more than he has so far to stick around. I thought he was a wasted pick when they selected him, and I think the NYG team powers will agree when the Turk makes his rounds on Labor Day weekend.

It doesn't matter that Lauletta a cost controlled player. As a seasoned veteran clipboard holder, Tanney brings a lot more to the party as a scout team QB than KL does. And they can replace either of them with a cheap veteran in any off-season.

So cut Lauletta, put Dungey on the PS, and give Eli a rousing send-off with a winning season.
No  
ZogZerg : 6/12/2019 12:22 pm : link
Not if Lauletta show's something.
Eli is gone after this year. I assume they'll sign a cheap vet for next year or Possibly have Lauletta back up next year if he looks the part.
Lauletta  
armstead98 : 6/12/2019 12:22 pm : link
Even if he's a bust im ok with the pick. You gotta roll the dice when searching for a QB. So what if he was a one in seven, it's the fifth round.
This..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2019 1:13 pm : link
is a key reason they likely will keep 3 QB's:

Quote:
Trouble is
English Alaister : 11:21 am : link : reply
then you need to find a new backup next year when Eli is gone. KL is relatively cheap so I'd say keep him around unless he really stinks in the pre-season.


with eli in his prime, 2 QB's were OK. With him likely playing his last season, you need that 3rd guy around - even if just as a bridge backup.
RE: How  
PatersonPlank : 6/12/2019 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?


Who?
Lauletta stays  
AnnapolisMike : 6/12/2019 1:18 pm : link
unless he stinks in the camp/preseason. They will need a backup in 2020.
I'd be tempted to go with Eli and Jones  
PatersonPlank : 6/12/2019 1:19 pm : link
If I keep a 3rd it would be Tanney
Hopefully Laulletta shows something. No point in not keeping  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/12/2019 1:23 pm : link
3 qbs, it isn't like the backend depth on this team is very talented. Outside of CB and RB I can't see us trying to keep more players than usual at any position. Maybe even less at safety to make up for the young talent at CB.
Serious question - what are the odds of anyone poaching KL  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/12/2019 1:26 pm : link
off the PS to give him an active roster slot? I'd guess no better than 1:10. IE it would be a reasonably sage bet to waive Lauletta (is that waiving?) to the PS.

Obviously the team may want to keep him for another 3 years as Jones' cheap back-up, and not take that risk. But I think they'd be even more hesitant to try to slip any of the young CBs for example to the PS, so there's 5 of them on the 53. 6 CBs with JJ.

RE: Lauletta stays  
Klaatu : 6/12/2019 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14470495 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
unless he stinks in the camp/preseason. They will need a backup in 2020.


They could always sign one.
Keep 2 (Manning and Jones),  
Mr. Bungle : 6/12/2019 2:26 pm : link
send Lauletta to the practice squad. (No team is going to steal him.)

If Lauletta makes adequate progress in 2019, he battles for Jones' backup in 2020 with a journeyman signing.
RE: Serious question - what are the odds of anyone poaching KL  
.McL. : 6/12/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14470506 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
off the PS to give him an active roster slot? I'd guess no better than 1:10. IE it would be a reasonably sage bet to waive Lauletta (is that waiving?) to the PS.

Obviously the team may want to keep him for another 3 years as Jones' cheap back-up, and not take that risk. But I think they'd be even more hesitant to try to slip any of the young CBs for example to the PS, so there's 5 of them on the 53. 6 CBs with JJ.


I really don't know if another team will poach him. However, teams have poached players just so they can do their own evaluation of him...

For that reason the Jets gave Webb a full salary if he would agree not to sign with another team. No reason we couldn't do a similar deal.
Would hate to see Lauletta go  
Leg of Theismann : 6/12/2019 3:57 pm : link
early 4th round pick just 1 year ago. That pick could have been used on a LB or backup OL.

How has Lauletta bee looking in practice btw?
RE: How  
King Quis : 6/12/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?


Hard to say. We seem to only be focusing on Jerry Reese's mishaps.
RE: RE: How  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/12/2019 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14470383 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?


Just as badly as they missed on Lauletta when the drafted him. It was always a head scratcher of a pic. They made a mistake. It happens.

This couldn't be more incorrect. Mid/late-round QBs get drafted to be depth. If you had visions of Tom Brady then that's your own fault, but the Lauletta pick was (and is) completely reasonable and justified.
RE: Since I am not a fan of Lauletta  
Ivan15 : 6/12/2019 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14470333 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
unless he shows progress in training camp, I would prefer to carry two with Lauletta going to the practice squad.

I am convinced that Tanney will not be signed by another team if he is cut so the Giants could just tell him to stay in shape in case they need him later in the season.


I know I am repeating myself but here goes. Unless Lauletta looks better than Tanney in preseason, Lauletta will be cut loose and Tanney will run the scout team and mentor Jones. Tanney has cleared waivers before and can again. They like Tanney and he is a pretty good coach in training. They will pay more than the practice squad rate to keep him around. If Lauletta doesn’t clearly beat out Tanney, he has no value to the Giants
I'd consider  
mrvax : 6/12/2019 5:50 pm : link
cutting Tanney before the season starts and placing Lauletta on the P.S.
Lauletta is a miss.  
Amazinz : 6/12/2019 6:18 pm : link
And imo one of the biggest knocks against Gettleman. (I'm generally a fan.)

I understand taking a flyer on a fourth-round QB.

But how do you swing and miss on the dude's intelligence and work ethic?
RE: How  
Burtman : 6/12/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?


It's less about how much they missed and more about how easily replaced he is by someone on the street.
Qb's miss all the time and once in a blue moon they unpredictably hit  
Eric on Li : 6/12/2019 7:16 pm : link
especially in the later rounds and there's rarely any in between. It was approximately 100x more likely Kyle Lauletta was going to be another Rhett Bomar/Ryan Nassib/Andre Woodson then another Dak Prescott.

His draft comp was Case Keenum and Case himself is now on his 7th team (counting 2 teams twice). And last year he got $25m guaranteed from Denver. So net-net the pick is projecting to be about as expected and while there's still hope for Lauletta it just most likely won't be here, so the sooner everyone gets over where he was drafted the better.
RE: RE: How  
Deejboy : 6/12/2019 11:40 pm : link
In comment 14470371 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14470341 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


badly did they miss on Lauletta if they don't keep him his second year?



Very badly. They better hope they got it right with Jones, because they've missed on every QB since Eli. None even became competent backups.

Every QB? This group has only drafted two QBs. You act like they have gone through 5 guys since Eli. Eli is still paying every snap the last time I looked.
Lauletta  
Dankbeerman : 6/13/2019 9:28 am : link
is getting crushed because of those who belived he was drafted to be the next guy. I dont think that was ever the case. To me he has potential to stick as the #2 behind Jones. I feel he has limitations that would get exposed as a full time starter but he offers enough as a fill in starter for 2 or 3 games if needed. I think he needs to fully be imersed in the offense to have an edge and at the same time he offers enough mobility to take advantage of full power running/play action offense.

maybe its just me but I can see an Alex Smith type out of him where he plays better a few years into his career
RE: the problem with 2 QBs  
Reale01 : 6/13/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14470336 ron mexico said:
Quote:
is one of them have to run the scout team and can't be 100% dedicated to being the back up.

Thats fine when you have a iron man like Eli in his prime and a very experienced backup like Carr but doesn't work well in our current situation


Good point but a practice squad QB (or Dungey) can run the scout team.
I get hung up  
pjcas18 : 6/13/2019 9:37 am : link
on the three QB thing all the the time.

Not sure why, but it kills me to use a valuable roster spot on a guy who doesn't really help your chances to win. Does anyone on here feel like Tunney at QB changes anything from Lauletta last year?

I don't.

But then I think who is that 53rd guy they pushed off the roster and most of the time that guy is out of the league, possibly on a PS somewhere.

Only guy I can think of from final cuts who didn't make it to the PS and played anywhere else is Matt McCants. and I don't think he did anything great with the Raiders, but he did start for them for a while - and he was let go to keep a 3rd QB - like Sorgi or someone shitty.

I also agree with others, you don't need a 3rd QB to run scout team. A PS QB should be able to handle that.

So, my preference is always 2 QB's, but I don't get as hung up on it as I used to b/c player 54 who doesn't make it ot the PS is likely not an NFL player.
The only problem with a PS QB running the scout team  
ron mexico : 6/13/2019 9:42 am : link
is that they can be claimed at any time and leave the team without one. Also are you getting the quality play to make sure the Def is getting the right prep?

RE: The only problem with a PS QB running the scout team  
pjcas18 : 6/13/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14470975 ron mexico said:
Quote:
is that they can be claimed at any time and leave the team without one. Also are you getting the quality play to make sure the Def is getting the right prep?


I think they can only be claimed if they are added to the other team's 53-man right? You can't go PS to PS or can you?

that is  
ron mexico : 6/13/2019 10:12 am : link
correct
RE: I get hung up  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/13/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14470971 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Only guy I can think of from final cuts who didn't make it to the PS and played anywhere else is Matt McCants. and I don't think he did anything great with the Raiders, but he did start for them for a while - and he was let go to keep a 3rd QB - like Sorgi or someone shitty.

All well and good, but McCants was cut in 2013, and the Giants only kept two QBs that year (Curtis Painter was the backup).
RE: RE: I get hung up  
pjcas18 : 6/13/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14471023 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14470971 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Only guy I can think of from final cuts who didn't make it to the PS and played anywhere else is Matt McCants. and I don't think he did anything great with the Raiders, but he did start for them for a while - and he was let go to keep a 3rd QB - like Sorgi or someone shitty.



All well and good, but McCants was cut in 2013, and the Giants only kept two QBs that year (Curtis Painter was the
backup).


Yep, Painter not Sorgi. My mistake.

And Ryan Nassib was the 3rd QB.

So, your point about being well and good?
I think Ivan15 is right about the scenario for keeping 2 on the roster  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/13/2019 11:42 am : link
If Tanney beats out Lauletta for #3, the Giants can probably save a roster spot by waiving both and signing Tanney to one of the four veteran slots on the practice squad. I think he still qualifies, although it's hard to be sure because the League keeps tinkering with the rules.

As for Lauletta in that scenario, the team might pull a Paul Perkins and keep him around on some reserve list or other. He did have surgery, so there's a plausible injury narrative if they aren't ready to give up on him completely.
To be fair..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/13/2019 12:00 pm : link
Nassib was the 3rd QB only in theory.

He was inactive for every game in 2013.
Unless Lauletta takes a noticeable step forward this year  
Jay on the Island : 6/13/2019 8:44 pm : link
I would prefer to see the Giants sign a veteran to a 1 year deal to backup Jones in 2020.

Some veteran options include Chase Daniel, Case Keenum, Colt McCoy, Brian Hoyer, Blake Bortles, Kyle Sloter. I wouldn't offer more than $4-5 million for the 1 year. McCoy, Hoyer, and Sloter would be the cheapest as I doubt any would receive more than $1.5-2 million. I am not a big fan of Bortles but he would be a potential reclamation project for Shurmur.
RE: RE: RE: I get hung up  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/14/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14471027 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14471023 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14470971 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Only guy I can think of from final cuts who didn't make it to the PS and played anywhere else is Matt McCants. and I don't think he did anything great with the Raiders, but he did start for them for a while - and he was let go to keep a 3rd QB - like Sorgi or someone shitty.



All well and good, but McCants was cut in 2013, and the Giants only kept two QBs that year (Curtis Painter was the
backup).



Yep, Painter not Sorgi. My mistake.

And Ryan Nassib was the 3rd QB.

So, your point about being well and good?

I stand corrected. I mistakenly went off of the Pro Football Reference roster for 2013 which does not list Nassib (presumably because, as FMIC notes, he was inactive every single week).

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: I get hung up  
pjcas18 : 6/14/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14472232 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14471027 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14471023 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14470971 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Only guy I can think of from final cuts who didn't make it to the PS and played anywhere else is Matt McCants. and I don't think he did anything great with the Raiders, but he did start for them for a while - and he was let go to keep a 3rd QB - like Sorgi or someone shitty.



All well and good, but McCants was cut in 2013, and the Giants only kept two QBs that year (Curtis Painter was the
backup).



Yep, Painter not Sorgi. My mistake.

And Ryan Nassib was the 3rd QB.

So, your point about being well and good?


I stand corrected. I mistakenly went off of the Pro Football Reference roster for 2013 which does not list Nassib (presumably because, as FMIC notes, he was inactive every single week). Link - ( New Window )


Fair but he was on the 53-man which is really what we're talking about.

And I agreed I don't get s hung about it anymore anyway.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I get hung up  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/14/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14472237 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14472232 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14471027 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14471023 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14470971 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Only guy I can think of from final cuts who didn't make it to the PS and played anywhere else is Matt McCants. and I don't think he did anything great with the Raiders, but he did start for them for a while - and he was let go to keep a 3rd QB - like Sorgi or someone shitty.



All well and good, but McCants was cut in 2013, and the Giants only kept two QBs that year (Curtis Painter was the
backup).



Yep, Painter not Sorgi. My mistake.

And Ryan Nassib was the 3rd QB.

So, your point about being well and good?


I stand corrected. I mistakenly went off of the Pro Football Reference roster for 2013 which does not list Nassib (presumably because, as FMIC notes, he was inactive every single week). Link - ( New Window )



Fair but he was on the 53-man which is really what we're talking about.

And I agreed I don't get s hung about it anymore anyway.

You're 100% right about the 53 - my mistake was in assuming that PFR would treat "roster" as the 53-man roster and not just the players who appeared on the active roster at some point during the season.
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