However, unless Jones clearly out-plays Eli Manning at training camp and in the preseason, it is hard to see him starting on opening day.
even if DJ's preseason qb rating is 40 pts ahead of Eli, I just don't see the Giants making the switch for game 1. Only way possible I see it is if a TEN loses their QB in preseason and they let Eli walk.
This transition will be the most hotly contested fan debate in memory.
That was a very comprehensive and well thought out analysis. Â
I'd like to add one thought. Shurmur's quote on Jones being ready to play on day one may have more to do with him being the first backup on day one and being on the active roster rather than his competing with Eli for the starting role.
isn't one scenario where I see the Giants throwing Jones to the Wolves week 1, but by week 4 or 5 I could see him taking over. Eli is the starting QB for now is precisely what it meant. Tom C had his guy in Eli and waited 9 games in to make the switch (with a team who had a plus winning record at the time) and I see PS wanting his guy (Jones) to be the starter before too long.
Eli is not going to be here in 2020. The question is, does he stay the starter for all of 2019 or does Jones supplant him during the season.
RE: That was a very comprehensive and well thought out analysis. Â
I'd like to add one thought. Shurmur's quote on Jones being ready to play on day one may have more to do with him being the first backup on day one and being on the active roster rather than his competing with Eli for the starting role.
to me is Tanney. There is ZERO reason to keep him on board. Your 3rd QB (if you go with 3) is a developmental guy, not an older VET. Jones will be the backup QB at worst and possible starter day 1 or by mid season if the team struggles. To mean the 3rd QB is Lauletta, unless Gmen decide they don't need 3 and keep Dungey on board as TE, FB, H-B, QB multi use player.
Just like I can’t see Jones starting over Eli week 1 Â
I can’t see Jones sitting the entire season. The Giants will be walking a tightrope over when to pass the baton. The good news is that to even be having this conversation at all Daniel Jones needs to look really good and so far that’s been the case. So that could change come training camp, I wouldn’t bet on it though.
I’m just looking forward to graduating from OTAs are meaningless discussions to the preseason games are meaningless discussions.
review. It's too early to tell whether they'll keep Tanney or Lauletta as the #3. Arguments can be made for either. As you note, Webb wasn't their guy. He was from the prior regime.
1. Do you think you can win a championship with Eli this year; and 2) is Daniel Jones ready to start?
If the answer to the first question is "yes," then you don't play Jones even if he's ready. Let him sit and learn from the master.
Equally as clear, if Jones isn't ready, then you don't play him whether the answer to the first question is yes or no.
Where it gets interesting is when the answer to the first question is "no" and the answer to the second question is "yes." In that scenario, I think Jones should start immediately. If he is ready and Eli won't get you there, then you play Jones and don't think twice about it. Get him the experience he needs now so that they have a chance to compete next year and beyond.
My personal opinion is that the answer to the first question is a resounding "no." I have no clue about the answer to the second question - doing well in OTAs is a nice start, but it doesn't tell us a whole lot about where Jones will be in terms of leading an NFL team for an entire campaign...
The strong Pro Day and OTAs are far preferable to having him look overwhelmed. The kid appears to be a head of schedule, and his physical ceiling may be higher than the draftnik consensus. All these omens bode wonderfully for the future of the team.
At the same time, it's worth remembering the three things that have made Eli Manning exceptional:
1) He excels at the mental chess match element of the game;
2) He has played his best football on the biggest stage;
3) He has taken a horrendous beating without ever missing a snap due to injury (well, maybe one - about a decade ago).
None of those things are evident in OTAs, in camp, or even in preseason. So there is no level playing field for QB competition. A decision to elevate Jones would be a huge leap of faith, not the result of some scientific comparison. Jones looking better than Manning in camp is only one small part of the decision. The staff also has to believe that Jones is ready in ways that can't be measured until live rounds start to fly, and that facing live fire will help his development more than it sets him back.
If Eli's physical skills are so diminished that the staff honestly believes Jones gives them a better chance to win without ever having seen him face a real NFL defense, then Jones should start and Manning shouldn't even be in the League. I don't think that's the case - not yet, at least - but if that's where we are, I also don't see much point in carrying a $12MM backup QB.
There is almost no way for Jones to beat out Eli Â
He’s isn’t going to clearly outperform Eli in trading camp drills as he would have to. Eli is still too good for that to happen. And he won’t get enough first team reps in the preseason games to tell either. I think this team will stay in contention until pretty late in the season. Then it’ time for Jones.
Quarterbacks (lauletta / tanney) largely depends how Jones does in training camp and the pre season. If they feel confident that Jones can step in early in the season if Eli gets hurt, then I think tanney gets cut and they keep lauletta.
If they feel that they want to keep a veteran quarterback as insurance while Jones continues to develop, then lauletta is out.
The only thing I would add is that their committment to Eli as the starter as long as they are in contention is more than speculation -they came out and said as much. Now might that change, sure. But that was the plan going in, even before drafting Jones. Do not underestimate how this franchise views Eli and what his legacy means to them.
The only thing I would add is that their committment to Eli as the starter as long as they are in contention is more than speculation -they came out and said as much. Now might that change, sure. But that was the plan going in, even before drafting Jones. Do not underestimate how this franchise views Eli and what his legacy means to them.
I agree with that, I think that's 100% spot on..but I do think Eli's got a shorter leash(as Duggan described it) than he's ever had.
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
They certainly weren't alone, and at the point in the 2018 draft where they took him I can't kill them for the pick. It was a good gamble considering the talent still on the board. If he never amounts to more than a career backup, well, the league needs those, too.
RE: If the Giants were wrong about Kyle Lauletta... Â
They certainly weren't alone, and at the point in the 2018 draft where they took him I can't kill them for the pick. It was a good gamble considering the talent still on the board. If he never amounts to more than a career backup, well, the league needs those, too.
If Lauletta winds up being a solid back-up QB with the Giants, then he's not a bad pick. But we don't even know if he is that. If they keep Tanney over Lauletta, that's not good.
The only thing I would add is that their committment to Eli as the starter as long as they are in contention is more than speculation -they came out and said as much. Now might that change, sure. But that was the plan going in, even before drafting Jones. Do not underestimate how this franchise views Eli and what his legacy means to them.
I agree with that, I think that's 100% spot on..but I do think Eli's got a shorter leash(as Duggan described it) than he's ever had.
Maybe so, but that shouldn't surprise anyone. Eli's never been this old, with as much wear and tear on his body as he has now, nor have the Giants ever invested as much in another QB since Eli's been their starter as they have in Daniel Jones. No other Giants QB in the "Eli Era" has come close to wearing the heir apparent mantle that Jones was being fitted for since Day One. As I said in another thread, the transition from Manning to Jones is inevitable. The only thing that's debatable is exactly when it happens.
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
But the question is would they give up on him if they didn't draft Jones? The giants didn't know when they drafted lauleta last year that they were going to draft a quarterback in the first round this year.
How is it an indictment IF they succeed in the drafting of Jones?
For the record, I think Jones shows enough in training camp and the preseason that they will feel confident enough to cut tanney and keep lauletta as a project and viable #2 next year
RE: RE: If the Giants were wrong about Kyle Lauletta... Â
They certainly weren't alone, and at the point in the 2018 draft where they took him I can't kill them for the pick. It was a good gamble considering the talent still on the board. If he never amounts to more than a career backup, well, the league needs those, too.
If Lauletta winds up being a solid back-up QB with the Giants, then he's not a bad pick. But we don't even know if he is that. If they keep Tanney over Lauletta, that's not good.
On that we agree. Personally, I'd keep Lauletta over Tanney if I had to choose right now. For one thing, he's a lot younger. For another, there is none of the proverbial "upside" with Tanney, but there might be with Lauletta. Also, if you keep Lauletta and he does flame out, you can always find a guy like Tanney at home sitting on his couch waiting for a call.
At this point in time, there should not be any QB contoversy Â
on the Giants. What UberAlias wrote - the Giants have a starting QB for 2019 and he is Eli Manning. Can that change - sure it can, but the likelihood of that changing is extremely small if the Giants' OL stays healthy and performs overall as at least an average group in the NFL.
Eli had a very solid year last year, and that was behind the 3rd to worst OL in the league. If this current OL performs at a middle of the pack level, that will be a HUGE improvement.
Jones last year led Duke to the 6th slot out of 7 teams in the ACC coastal division. He's performed well in shorts - let's not pretend he's superman. Now, he's in the NFL. He can wait to face live bullits.
I believe Eli will have such a good season in 2019
that The Giants will find it very difficult to see him
go out the door.
I would think that's a best case scenario by far, no? Let's add to it - Eli has a great year and the Giants win their division, or at least make the playoffs. Wild suppositions, but what if?
I am starting to have a very good feeling about this team, starting with all those rookies and 2nd year players on the Defense with a few key vets, and the Zeitler/Remmers right side of the OL.
RE: At this point in time, there should not be any QB contoversy Â
Eli had a solid year despite playing on a bad team(or at least with the 3rd worst offensive line).
Then go on to cite Duke's finish in the ACC? We've picked top 10 in the draft for 2 years in a row...so the solid year either wasn't solid enough or there are other factors beyond quarterback play that contribute to wins and losses.
Let's be consistent in how were judging QBs. Eli's not the only one who's had to suffer with a poor supporting cast. Jones isn't the only quarterback whose teams could have won more games.
RE: RE: To extend Eli or not after the 2019 season. Â
I believe Eli will have such a good season in 2019
that The Giants will find it very difficult to see him
go out the door.
I would think that's a best case scenario by far, no? Let's add to it - Eli has a great year and the Giants win their division, or at least make the playoffs. Wild suppositions, but what if?
I am starting to have a very good feeling about this team, starting with all those rookies and 2nd year players on the Defense with a few key vets, and the Zeitler/Remmers right side of the OL.
I'm not downgrading Jones. I want to see him succeed and have a long and fruitful career with The Giants. I just
don't believe the funeral should take place before the demise.
RE: RE: At this point in time, there should not be any QB contoversy Â
Eli had a solid year despite playing on a bad team(or at least with the 3rd worst offensive line).
Then go on to cite Duke's finish in the ACC? We've picked top 10 in the draft for 2 years in a row...so the solid year either wasn't solid enough or there are other factors beyond quarterback play that contribute to wins and losses.
Let's be consistent in how were judging QBs. Eli's not the only one who's had to suffer with a poor supporting cast. Jones isn't the only quarterback whose teams could have won more games.
Forget about Jones for a minute...can you name any other franchise QB in the NFL who has had as crappy a supporting cast as Eli has had the last 7 years...?
because he's a developmental QB.
Jones is both a developmental QB and the heir apparent to Eli, quite possibly sooner than later. You want to develop another QB who will never play? What are you developing him for, future trade value? He has none and under the circumstances he finds himself in he never will.
If we carry three let the best man win. Lauletta? Tanney? For all we know the third guy, if there is one, might not even be on the roster.
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
I can't criticize a 4th round gamble on KL, he fit Shumurs scheme but didn't pan out. Now Webb, how does he fit Mcadoo's scheme? And Nassib was a TC Syracuse scholarship mascot.
The only thing I would add is that their committment to Eli as the starter as long as they are in contention is more than speculation -they came out and said as much. Now might that change, sure. But that was the plan going in, even before drafting Jones. Do not underestimate how this franchise views Eli and what his legacy means to them.
I agree with that, I think that's 100% spot on..but I do think Eli's got a shorter leash(as Duggan described it) than he's ever had.
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
I disagree. While the Giants own the responsibility of giving Kyle an opportunity, Kyle owns the responsibility of not taking advantage of that opportunity. He is drafted into a situation where they have an aging franchise QB that whether fair or not has been a part of losing football for some time. The backup is best known as a trick-shot YouTube star. He is given an incredible opportunity that he doesn't fully grasp. Him sleeping in and being late for work is indicative of his priorities/decision making/work ethic. DG even was quoted as (paraphrasing) that it is difficult to count on someone who can't be there on time. Then when given an opportunity to play in an NFL game with zero pressure, he shits the bed.
simply because the coaching staff cannot reasonably think that Jones can read NFL defenses after one training camp and a couple of preseason games.
As for Lauletta, I thought from day one that the decision to release Webb and draft Lauletta was not so much a failure of the scouting department as it was a ego decision on the part of Gettleman who wanted to jettison as many draft and trade decisions made by the prior administration as possible. While neither is elite, no way is Lauletta better than Webb.
simply because the coaching staff cannot reasonably think that Jones can read NFL defenses after one training camp and a couple of preseason games.
As for Lauletta, I thought from day one that the decision to release Webb and draft Lauletta was not so much a failure of the scouting department as it was a ego decision on the part of Gettleman who wanted to jettison as many draft and trade decisions made by the prior administration as possible. While neither is elite, no way is Lauletta better than Webb.
First off why can't Jones "read NFL defenses"? Darnold started week one and played reasonably well. Jones intelligence is one of his best traits.
"no way is Lauletta better than Webb." The rest of the NFL clearly disagrees with you here. The Jets were the only team to sign Webb to their practice squad last season.
Any team could have signed him to their active roster but didn't. Not even Washington who was still in the playoff hunt and chose Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson rather than sign Webb who was on a rookie contract making the minimium.
The Jets brought in Trevor Siemian and Luke Falk and are still hoping to convince Josh McCown to come back for one more year. If they had any faith in Webb they wouldn't have brought in Siemian or tried to bring back McCown. It was just a horrible pick.
I don't understand this belief that Gettleman is getting rid of players just because they were drafted or brought in by Reese. Why are Dalvin Tomlinson, BJ Goodson, Avery Moss, Chad Wheeler, Sterling Shepard, Wayne Gallman, Jon Halapio, Evan Engram, Rhett Ellison, and Paul Perkins still here then?
If you are a fan who believes the Giants can contend Â
For the playoffs with Eli, then the position that he should be the starting quarterback makes absolute sense. All Giants fans should hope for the playoffs, once you get in you never know.
But if you believe they can’t win with Eli, the position that Jones should start from day one makes perfect sense as well.
What seems like the more sensible position is to begin the season with Eli and let it play out. Hard to believe anyone really knows the answer to the question of Eli s worth as a quarterback.
They have not won with him for a while now, but there are also reasons beyond the quarterback which made it difficult for the team to win.
I m as anxious as any to see Jones, but As a fan who s not sure what Eli has left, .....let s fine out.
simply because the coaching staff cannot reasonably think that Jones can read NFL defenses after one training camp and a couple of preseason games.
As for Lauletta, I thought from day one that the decision to release Webb and draft Lauletta was not so much a failure of the scouting department as it was a ego decision on the part of Gettleman who wanted to jettison as many draft and trade decisions made by the prior administration as possible. While neither is elite, no way is Lauletta better than Webb.
First off why can't Jones "read NFL defenses"? Darnold started week one and played reasonably well. Jones intelligence is one of his best traits.
"no way is Lauletta better than Webb." The rest of the NFL clearly disagrees with you here. The Jets were the only team to sign Webb to their practice squad last season.
Any team could have signed him to their active roster but didn't. Not even Washington who was still in the playoff hunt and chose Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson rather than sign Webb who was on a rookie contract making the minimium.
The Jets brought in Trevor Siemian and Luke Falk and are still hoping to convince Josh McCown to come back for one more year. If they had any faith in Webb they wouldn't have brought in Siemian or tried to bring back McCown. It was just a horrible pick.
I don't understand this belief that Gettleman is getting rid of players just because they were drafted or brought in by Reese. Why are Dalvin Tomlinson, BJ Goodson, Avery Moss, Chad Wheeler, Sterling Shepard, Wayne Gallman, Jon Halapio, Evan Engram, Rhett Ellison, and Paul Perkins still here then?
No team is going to add a rookie quarterback to their active roster in the middle of the season when the qb doesn't know the team's offense and is unlikely to help the team win games. And I never said Webb was a quality quarterback, only that he is better than Lauletta in terms of arm strength and probably his equal in all other respects.
As for Darnold reading defenses, he threw 17 TDs and 14 INTs and had a record of 4-9 as a starting quarterback. Is this what you want for the Giants?
I don’t think he’s ever anything more than the QB3 here, even when they move on from Eli. My guess is they look for a QB2 with experience that has the upside to win a few games if Jones goes down.
They’ll keep Lauletta around because he’ll be cheap and know the system. As long as Shurmur is the HC he’ll keep 3 guys on the roster.
1. Do you think you can win a championship with Eli this year; and 2) is Daniel Jones ready to start?
If the answer to the first question is "yes," then you don't play Jones even if he's ready. Let him sit and learn from the master.
Equally as clear, if Jones isn't ready, then you don't play him whether the answer to the first question is yes or no.
Do you think the Giants can t win a championship with Eli, or won t; it s two different questions.
I would be surprised if many believed this year s roster is a championship one. If it were maybe Eli could lead them to championship, I don’t know.
But Eli is not going to be extended, most likely, so you re probably correct in assuming they won’t win another championship with him.
But maybe Eli gives them a better chance to be a play off contender. After the last two seasons this alone is a good enough reason to begin the 2019 campaign with Eli as the starter.
Where it gets interesting is when the answer to the first question is "no" and the answer to the second question is "yes." In that scenario, I think Jones should start immediately. If he is ready and Eli won't get you there, then you play Jones and don't think twice about it. Get him the experience he needs now so that they have a chance to compete next year and beyond.
My personal opinion is that the answer to the first question is a resounding "no." I have no clue about the answer to the second question - doing well in OTAs is a nice start, but it doesn't tell us a whole lot about where Jones will be in terms of leading an NFL team for an entire campaign...
No team is going to add a rookie quarterback to their active roster in the middle of the season when the qb doesn't know the team's offense and is unlikely to help the team win games. And I never said Webb was a quality quarterback, only that he is better than Lauletta in terms of arm strength and probably his equal in all other respects.
As for Darnold reading defenses, he threw 17 TDs and 14 INTs and had a record of 4-9 as a starting quarterback. Is this what you want for the Giants?
Webb wasn't a rookie. The Panthers signed UDFA QB Kyle Allen and he started a game for them last season as a rookie.
I agree with you that Webb has more physical talent and a stronger arm than Lauletta. That doesn't mean he is a better quarterback.
Also if any NFL team thought Webb had any sort of potential they would have signed him and stashed him on their roster as the 3rd QB. No team did that except the Jets who made the move because injuries forced their hand.
Who would pass on a young former 3rd round pick making the league minimum with three years of control if they thought he had talent?
are you seriously blaming Darnold for their record last season? The Jets are an absolute mess and Darnold played very well for a rookie with a lack of talent around him.
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
No, I disagree. A 4th rounder is not a high level - it is mid draft. The team picked him as a look see because he had some attributes they liked. Maybe those did not translate to the NFL. Maybe he does not pick up the offense well or cannot read defenses.
And you don't hang on just to hang on.
are you seriously blaming Darnold for their record last season? The Jets are an absolute mess and Darnold played very well for a rookie with a lack of talent around him.
I hear the Jets are thrilled with what they have in Darnold. Nothing more than JAG talent around him anywhere on offense and shitty coaching. Plus he was the youngest QB ever to play in an NFL game. The potential is obvious to most paying attention. Hopefully we don't have to put down other teams players to make ourselves feel better. Let's just hope Jones proves to be the real deal, then who cares.
even if DJ's preseason qb rating is 40 pts ahead of Eli, I just don't see the Giants making the switch for game 1. Only way possible I see it is if a TEN loses their QB in preseason and they let Eli walk.
This transition will be the most hotly contested fan debate in memory.
Eli is not going to be here in 2020. The question is, does he stay the starter for all of 2019 or does Jones supplant him during the season.
Probably. But not definitely.
I’m just looking forward to graduating from OTAs are meaningless discussions to the preseason games are meaningless discussions.
If the answer to the first question is "yes," then you don't play Jones even if he's ready. Let him sit and learn from the master.
Equally as clear, if Jones isn't ready, then you don't play him whether the answer to the first question is yes or no.
Where it gets interesting is when the answer to the first question is "no" and the answer to the second question is "yes." In that scenario, I think Jones should start immediately. If he is ready and Eli won't get you there, then you play Jones and don't think twice about it. Get him the experience he needs now so that they have a chance to compete next year and beyond.
My personal opinion is that the answer to the first question is a resounding "no." I have no clue about the answer to the second question - doing well in OTAs is a nice start, but it doesn't tell us a whole lot about where Jones will be in terms of leading an NFL team for an entire campaign...
The put in Jones towards mid-season and he does okay.
The Giants finish with a top 10 draft pick next year.
The Giants then parlay that pick into one of the intriguing QB prospects coming out next year.
Manning is not resigned and there is an open competition for the starting QB role next season?
I know that it seems like Jones is DG's pet project. But maybe the golden goose lies in the 2020 draft?
At the same time, it's worth remembering the three things that have made Eli Manning exceptional:
1) He excels at the mental chess match element of the game;
2) He has played his best football on the biggest stage;
3) He has taken a horrendous beating without ever missing a snap due to injury (well, maybe one - about a decade ago).
None of those things are evident in OTAs, in camp, or even in preseason. So there is no level playing field for QB competition. A decision to elevate Jones would be a huge leap of faith, not the result of some scientific comparison. Jones looking better than Manning in camp is only one small part of the decision. The staff also has to believe that Jones is ready in ways that can't be measured until live rounds start to fly, and that facing live fire will help his development more than it sets him back.
If Eli's physical skills are so diminished that the staff honestly believes Jones gives them a better chance to win without ever having seen him face a real NFL defense, then Jones should start and Manning shouldn't even be in the League. I don't think that's the case - not yet, at least - but if that's where we are, I also don't see much point in carrying a $12MM backup QB.
If they feel that they want to keep a veteran quarterback as insurance while Jones continues to develop, then lauletta is out.
I agree with that, I think that's 100% spot on..but I do think Eli's got a shorter leash(as Duggan described it) than he's ever had.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
If Lauletta winds up being a solid back-up QB with the Giants, then he's not a bad pick. But we don't even know if he is that. If they keep Tanney over Lauletta, that's not good.
Quote:
The only thing I would add is that their committment to Eli as the starter as long as they are in contention is more than speculation -they came out and said as much. Now might that change, sure. But that was the plan going in, even before drafting Jones. Do not underestimate how this franchise views Eli and what his legacy means to them.
I agree with that, I think that's 100% spot on..but I do think Eli's got a shorter leash(as Duggan described it) than he's ever had.
Maybe so, but that shouldn't surprise anyone. Eli's never been this old, with as much wear and tear on his body as he has now, nor have the Giants ever invested as much in another QB since Eli's been their starter as they have in Daniel Jones. No other Giants QB in the "Eli Era" has come close to wearing the heir apparent mantle that Jones was being fitted for since Day One. As I said in another thread, the transition from Manning to Jones is inevitable. The only thing that's debatable is exactly when it happens.
Quote:
The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
But the question is would they give up on him if they didn't draft Jones? The giants didn't know when they drafted lauleta last year that they were going to draft a quarterback in the first round this year.
How is it an indictment IF they succeed in the drafting of Jones?
For the record, I think Jones shows enough in training camp and the preseason that they will feel confident enough to cut tanney and keep lauletta as a project and viable #2 next year
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They certainly weren't alone, and at the point in the 2018 draft where they took him I can't kill them for the pick. It was a good gamble considering the talent still on the board. If he never amounts to more than a career backup, well, the league needs those, too.
If Lauletta winds up being a solid back-up QB with the Giants, then he's not a bad pick. But we don't even know if he is that. If they keep Tanney over Lauletta, that's not good.
On that we agree. Personally, I'd keep Lauletta over Tanney if I had to choose right now. For one thing, he's a lot younger. For another, there is none of the proverbial "upside" with Tanney, but there might be with Lauletta. Also, if you keep Lauletta and he does flame out, you can always find a guy like Tanney at home sitting on his couch waiting for a call.
Eli had a very solid year last year, and that was behind the 3rd to worst OL in the league. If this current OL performs at a middle of the pack level, that will be a HUGE improvement.
Jones last year led Duke to the 6th slot out of 7 teams in the ACC coastal division. He's performed well in shorts - let's not pretend he's superman. Now, he's in the NFL. He can wait to face live bullits.
that The Giants will find it very difficult to see him
go out the door.
that The Giants will find it very difficult to see him
go out the door.
I would think that's a best case scenario by far, no? Let's add to it - Eli has a great year and the Giants win their division, or at least make the playoffs. Wild suppositions, but what if?
I am starting to have a very good feeling about this team, starting with all those rookies and 2nd year players on the Defense with a few key vets, and the Zeitler/Remmers right side of the OL.
Then go on to cite Duke's finish in the ACC? We've picked top 10 in the draft for 2 years in a row...so the solid year either wasn't solid enough or there are other factors beyond quarterback play that contribute to wins and losses.
Let's be consistent in how were judging QBs. Eli's not the only one who's had to suffer with a poor supporting cast. Jones isn't the only quarterback whose teams could have won more games.
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I believe Eli will have such a good season in 2019
that The Giants will find it very difficult to see him
go out the door.
I would think that's a best case scenario by far, no? Let's add to it - Eli has a great year and the Giants win their division, or at least make the playoffs. Wild suppositions, but what if?
I am starting to have a very good feeling about this team, starting with all those rookies and 2nd year players on the Defense with a few key vets, and the Zeitler/Remmers right side of the OL.
I'm not downgrading Jones. I want to see him succeed and have a long and fruitful career with The Giants. I just
don't believe the funeral should take place before the demise.
Then go on to cite Duke's finish in the ACC? We've picked top 10 in the draft for 2 years in a row...so the solid year either wasn't solid enough or there are other factors beyond quarterback play that contribute to wins and losses.
Let's be consistent in how were judging QBs. Eli's not the only one who's had to suffer with a poor supporting cast. Jones isn't the only quarterback whose teams could have won more games.
Forget about Jones for a minute...can you name any other franchise QB in the NFL who has had as crappy a supporting cast as Eli has had the last 7 years...?
So citing Jones record in the acc is irrelevant, because the same exact point applies to him.
Jones is both a developmental QB and the heir apparent to Eli, quite possibly sooner than later. You want to develop another QB who will never play? What are you developing him for, future trade value? He has none and under the circumstances he finds himself in he never will.
If we carry three let the best man win. Lauletta? Tanney? For all we know the third guy, if there is one, might not even be on the roster.
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The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
I can't criticize a 4th round gamble on KL, he fit Shumurs scheme but didn't pan out. Now Webb, how does he fit Mcadoo's scheme? And Nassib was a TC Syracuse scholarship mascot.
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The only thing I would add is that their committment to Eli as the starter as long as they are in contention is more than speculation -they came out and said as much. Now might that change, sure. But that was the plan going in, even before drafting Jones. Do not underestimate how this franchise views Eli and what his legacy means to them.
I agree with that, I think that's 100% spot on..but I do think Eli's got a shorter leash(as Duggan described it) than he's ever had.
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The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
I disagree. While the Giants own the responsibility of giving Kyle an opportunity, Kyle owns the responsibility of not taking advantage of that opportunity. He is drafted into a situation where they have an aging franchise QB that whether fair or not has been a part of losing football for some time. The backup is best known as a trick-shot YouTube star. He is given an incredible opportunity that he doesn't fully grasp. Him sleeping in and being late for work is indicative of his priorities/decision making/work ethic. DG even was quoted as (paraphrasing) that it is difficult to count on someone who can't be there on time. Then when given an opportunity to play in an NFL game with zero pressure, he shits the bed.
As for Lauletta, I thought from day one that the decision to release Webb and draft Lauletta was not so much a failure of the scouting department as it was a ego decision on the part of Gettleman who wanted to jettison as many draft and trade decisions made by the prior administration as possible. While neither is elite, no way is Lauletta better than Webb.
As for Lauletta, I thought from day one that the decision to release Webb and draft Lauletta was not so much a failure of the scouting department as it was a ego decision on the part of Gettleman who wanted to jettison as many draft and trade decisions made by the prior administration as possible. While neither is elite, no way is Lauletta better than Webb.
First off why can't Jones "read NFL defenses"? Darnold started week one and played reasonably well. Jones intelligence is one of his best traits.
"no way is Lauletta better than Webb." The rest of the NFL clearly disagrees with you here. The Jets were the only team to sign Webb to their practice squad last season.
Any team could have signed him to their active roster but didn't. Not even Washington who was still in the playoff hunt and chose Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson rather than sign Webb who was on a rookie contract making the minimium.
The Jets brought in Trevor Siemian and Luke Falk and are still hoping to convince Josh McCown to come back for one more year. If they had any faith in Webb they wouldn't have brought in Siemian or tried to bring back McCown. It was just a horrible pick.
I don't understand this belief that Gettleman is getting rid of players just because they were drafted or brought in by Reese. Why are Dalvin Tomlinson, BJ Goodson, Avery Moss, Chad Wheeler, Sterling Shepard, Wayne Gallman, Jon Halapio, Evan Engram, Rhett Ellison, and Paul Perkins still here then?
But if you believe they can’t win with Eli, the position that Jones should start from day one makes perfect sense as well.
What seems like the more sensible position is to begin the season with Eli and let it play out. Hard to believe anyone really knows the answer to the question of Eli s worth as a quarterback.
They have not won with him for a while now, but there are also reasons beyond the quarterback which made it difficult for the team to win.
I m as anxious as any to see Jones, but As a fan who s not sure what Eli has left, .....let s fine out.
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simply because the coaching staff cannot reasonably think that Jones can read NFL defenses after one training camp and a couple of preseason games.
As for Lauletta, I thought from day one that the decision to release Webb and draft Lauletta was not so much a failure of the scouting department as it was a ego decision on the part of Gettleman who wanted to jettison as many draft and trade decisions made by the prior administration as possible. While neither is elite, no way is Lauletta better than Webb.
First off why can't Jones "read NFL defenses"? Darnold started week one and played reasonably well. Jones intelligence is one of his best traits.
"no way is Lauletta better than Webb." The rest of the NFL clearly disagrees with you here. The Jets were the only team to sign Webb to their practice squad last season.
Any team could have signed him to their active roster but didn't. Not even Washington who was still in the playoff hunt and chose Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson rather than sign Webb who was on a rookie contract making the minimium.
The Jets brought in Trevor Siemian and Luke Falk and are still hoping to convince Josh McCown to come back for one more year. If they had any faith in Webb they wouldn't have brought in Siemian or tried to bring back McCown. It was just a horrible pick.
I don't understand this belief that Gettleman is getting rid of players just because they were drafted or brought in by Reese. Why are Dalvin Tomlinson, BJ Goodson, Avery Moss, Chad Wheeler, Sterling Shepard, Wayne Gallman, Jon Halapio, Evan Engram, Rhett Ellison, and Paul Perkins still here then?
No team is going to add a rookie quarterback to their active roster in the middle of the season when the qb doesn't know the team's offense and is unlikely to help the team win games. And I never said Webb was a quality quarterback, only that he is better than Lauletta in terms of arm strength and probably his equal in all other respects.
As for Darnold reading defenses, he threw 17 TDs and 14 INTs and had a record of 4-9 as a starting quarterback. Is this what you want for the Giants?
They’ll keep Lauletta around because he’ll be cheap and know the system. As long as Shurmur is the HC he’ll keep 3 guys on the roster.
If the answer to the first question is "yes," then you don't play Jones even if he's ready. Let him sit and learn from the master.
Equally as clear, if Jones isn't ready, then you don't play him whether the answer to the first question is yes or no.
Do you think the Giants can t win a championship with Eli, or won t; it s two different questions.
I would be surprised if many believed this year s roster is a championship one. If it were maybe Eli could lead them to championship, I don’t know.
But Eli is not going to be extended, most likely, so you re probably correct in assuming they won’t win another championship with him.
But maybe Eli gives them a better chance to be a play off contender. After the last two seasons this alone is a good enough reason to begin the 2019 campaign with Eli as the starter.
Where it gets interesting is when the answer to the first question is "no" and the answer to the second question is "yes." In that scenario, I think Jones should start immediately. If he is ready and Eli won't get you there, then you play Jones and don't think twice about it. Get him the experience he needs now so that they have a chance to compete next year and beyond.
My personal opinion is that the answer to the first question is a resounding "no." I have no clue about the answer to the second question - doing well in OTAs is a nice start, but it doesn't tell us a whole lot about where Jones will be in terms of leading an NFL team for an entire campaign...
No team is going to add a rookie quarterback to their active roster in the middle of the season when the qb doesn't know the team's offense and is unlikely to help the team win games. And I never said Webb was a quality quarterback, only that he is better than Lauletta in terms of arm strength and probably his equal in all other respects.
As for Darnold reading defenses, he threw 17 TDs and 14 INTs and had a record of 4-9 as a starting quarterback. Is this what you want for the Giants?
Webb wasn't a rookie. The Panthers signed UDFA QB Kyle Allen and he started a game for them last season as a rookie.
I agree with you that Webb has more physical talent and a stronger arm than Lauletta. That doesn't mean he is a better quarterback.
Also if any NFL team thought Webb had any sort of potential they would have signed him and stashed him on their roster as the 3rd QB. No team did that except the Jets who made the move because injuries forced their hand.
Who would pass on a young former 3rd round pick making the league minimum with three years of control if they thought he had talent?
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The sentiment of lauletta if he is cut. I don't think it is an indictment of the scouting department if he is cut. Lauletta was drafted as a project, just the same as nassib, Webb, bomar and woodson. They were all project quarterbacks. Last year the quarterback situation was different. I get the sense that the giants organization just did not think that highly of Webb and lauletta was drafted as the next project.
If the giants hadn't drafted Jones with the 6th overall pick, then there wouldn't be a question if lauletta would be on the team.
If you give up on a high 4th-round pick after just one season - especially a QB from a lower level of competition - it's a screw up.
No, I disagree. A 4th rounder is not a high level - it is mid draft. The team picked him as a look see because he had some attributes they liked. Maybe those did not translate to the NFL. Maybe he does not pick up the offense well or cannot read defenses.
And you don't hang on just to hang on.