Everyone must have a short term memory, i'm pretty sure last year was the most impressive rookie in Giants history
Uhhh. In preseason I'm pretty sure LT was the most impressive in Giants history. Moved into the starting roll in the 2nd practice on a team that already had good linebackers.
I think one thing to keep in mind here is that this shouldn't be too surprising (although if you're one of those folks who was misled about his arm being weak then I suppose it would be). Jones has great touch, timing, and accuracy - and can drive the ball - he should look great in shorts.
But I really hope they don't rush him into service this year.
will really make it tough for Eli. First bad game he has, fans will be chanting for the kid.
. Thisis a very true prognostication. I have seen it many times in the past. Many Giant fans want a scapegoat and ELI will be the target of choice if he loses a couple of games early.
the Giants' "gift of gratitude" to Eli was not cutting him and letting him get every dollar of his contract.
And I don't know if there was an actual verbal agreement or not, but I think that what the Giants expect in return for that gift is to move onto Jones as soon as possible without any awkwardness or controversy.
I just think all of this positive messaging about Jones that's been hitting the general public is setting the table for something. And that something is moving on to The Succession Plan as soon as possible, so that the public is prepared and the transition is as graceful as possible.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
All this is really good news so far, I hope it continues. I am certainly rooting for him.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
Does anyone know what was said of Wentz, Mahomes, etc. during their rookie OTA's? I ask this not as a knock on Jones, but just for comparisons sake, if they also had gushing reviews...
I think and hope we may have "stolen" Jones from the rest of the QB hungry teams and truly believe that he would not have lasted until 17. I think DG hit the nail on the head here.
From Wentz, all I know is that from the Tanier article, he said he observed Jones for 3 days, and had similar lengthy exposure to observe Wentz during his rookie year(during same time frame) and that Jones looked better than Wentz at the same point in their development(he made the same comment regarding Jones and Lamar Jackson).
I find it interesting that we are cautioned that we Â
have no way of knowing what Daniel Jones will be based off early rave reviews, but somehow we can say with certainty what he will not be(Mahomes/Rodgers). Fascinating.
As if the NFL knew with any certainty what Rodgers was going to become back in 2005, when 23 teams decided to pass on him. Had the NFL known Machomes what Mahomes would become,he would have been the slam dunk #1 overall pick. Players continue to grow, improve and change within the NFL, especially quarterbacks..they are not static entities. Rodgers and Mahomes came in with less fanfare than most quarterbacks and certainly didn't arrive with the Luck level hype as a preordained future MVP candidate.
about Rodgers back in 2005 when 23 teams passed on him:
Quote:
What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:
Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"
AFC scout: "I like him. He's a very talented guy. A lot of quarterbacks that were system people have not done very well. That puts up a red flag. Not that he is one of them. He could be an exception. But I can't get it out of my craw."
Rich Snead, Tennessee: "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out. He's more accurate than (Kyle) Boller but probably not as athletic. He's a better player than Akili Smith. He's more athletic than (Trent) Dilfer was. He's a little more mobile than Joey Harrington. He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."
NFC scout: "(Alex) Smith is the better athlete."
AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."
Jerry Angelo, Chicago: "I'd give Rodgers the edge (over Smith) just because he was easier to evaluate. And there's a little more arm. But the edge is negligible."
NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."
NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."
AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
Bill Polian, Indianapolis: "I see a guy who has good arm strength. I see some athletic ability. I see a guy who was pretty good with a good team. I see a guy who's in a pretty efficient offense. Am I certain that he's going to come in and lead my team to the Promised Land? I can't say that. I'm not even sure I can say that about Alex Smith."
AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."
NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did.
All this is really good news so far, I hope it continues. I am certainly rooting for him.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
Mental processing is the big ? for any QB. However, DJ8 is the best prospect in that department since Luck.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
There absolutely is an anti NY. It's an absolute fucking joke Parcells and Strahan weren't first ballot HoFers and Bettis is in because he has a cool nickname.
are or not doing, 1 or five games into the season, isn't going to
mean much if the OL has shades of itself in recent years: three positions out of five with real ??.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
out of 5 with real question marks? LT,LG, and RG should be fine. I can see question marks at C and RT, however those questions marks were there a year ago and the line did improve over final 8 games..I feel that performance should be the baseline for this unit and hopefully and uptick with Halapio and Remmers filling in..but they are question marks for sure, considering durability coming off injury. If Remmers can just hold up I have to consider that a big upgrade over Wheeler even if he is mediocre.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
I never said it's always bias. I am not one of those fans that whine when a journalist criticizes the team because they definitely deserve it after the past few years.
I've been frequenting PFT for years. Florio has taken so many shots at the Giants, and frequently Eli, even when they were successful.
Florio predicted that the Steelers will "make a deep run" in the playoffs without Bell and Brown despite only receiving a 3rd and 5th round picks. He bashes the Giants for trading Beckham for a 1st, 3rd, and a former 1st round pick with 3 more seasons on his rookie contract.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
So true
Absolutely, just like when Polian said that he wanted to draft Brady.
competition, was off the cuff and not discussed with DG and upper management before it was made. Unless Shurmur is an idiot who could not anticipate the media circus it would produce. But he may be, not that bigtht, or knew exactly what he was starting. Do not see this as a positive for this young team at this time.
When did Shurmur say there was a QB competition? Â
Would be having those draft network boy band looking bags of douche on Twitter who still won't STFU about him being a terrible prospect choke on their words.
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
Would be having those draft network boy band looking bags of douche on Twitter who still won't STFU about him being a terrible prospect choke on their words.
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
I will never forget Ray Lucas' reaction to the pick. A professional sports analyst was literally running around his office laughing in the face of the Giants fans that worked there after the pick. It was recorded so I can't wait to see someone throw that in this shitheads face if Jones is the real deal. That was one of the most unprofessional things I have ever witnessed from an analyst.
I don't think there's any way that Jones will be able to Â
read NFL defenses by week one, and if this is the case, his performance will be a combination of indecisiveness and interceptions and the coaching staff will look foolish for having started him ahead of Eli.
Simms does bring some good takes. BTW, Florio’s a big Vikings fan not a Steelers fan. Simms busts his chops about it all the time during the shows.
Florio is both a Steelers and Vikings fan.
"Florio said he started following the National Football League closely when he was about eight years old.
Born and raised in Wheeling, he said it was hard not to be a rabid Pittsburgh Steelers fan in the 1970s, a decade in which the the team won three Super Bowl championships."
RE: I don't know - by the looks of the video, Jones is already shitting Â
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
You don't have to be Kreskin to see that coming. Actions speak louder than words, words are meaningless.
as long as Eli is healthy enough to play the owners Â
do not have the balls to sit him down no matter how bad he plays. They learned their lesson last 2 years ago by hearing it from the fans, Eli will start and stay this coming season no matter how bad he plays, the owners will make a boatload of money and Eli will still play, its just the way it is in business...
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
Florio needs to understand that nobody gives a shit what he thinks...
RE: as long as Eli is healthy enough to play the owners Â
do not have the balls to sit him down no matter how bad he plays. They learned their lesson last 2 years ago by hearing it from the fans, Eli will start and stay this coming season no matter how bad he plays, the owners will make a boatload of money and Eli will still play, its just the way it is in business...
Bullshit! The fans were pissed he was benched for Geno Fing Smith. The fan reaction will be much different this time if Eli is not playing well.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
True but in the giants case it most definitely is. I can prove it from as far back as the late 80s when even then the giants were as scrutinized as any team going. I remember Gary Myers blasting the giants in the summer of 1989.
For a franchise that has won and won big they take a lot of heat and rarely seem to be extended any benefit of the doubt. It’s a NY media thing. Lately ifs been warranted to some extent but the post draft coverage was downright pathetic.
The only way Eli would be cut in camp is if his body couldn't play Â
Uhhh. In preseason I'm pretty sure LT was the most impressive in Giants history. Moved into the starting roll in the 2nd practice on a team that already had good linebackers.
But I really hope they don't rush him into service this year.
Other than that, their resumes are identical.
Quote:
I have it on now - about halfway through.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
This narrative about Mara controlling whom the coach should play is so silly and yet gets repeated and actually believed by those that write it.
And I don't know if there was an actual verbal agreement or not, but I think that what the Giants expect in return for that gift is to move onto Jones as soon as possible without any awkwardness or controversy.
I just think all of this positive messaging about Jones that's been hitting the general public is setting the table for something. And that something is moving on to The Succession Plan as soon as possible, so that the public is prepared and the transition is as graceful as possible.
Quote:
Archie Manning told him to draft this bum!
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
Its like Parcells selecting 3 HoFers for Dallas, completely 180'd that franchise.
I think people are just getting this SENSE that DJ8 is the real deal, like having Secretariat in your stable.
performs well in pre season we could have a QB controversy on out hands before game 4.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
I think LT was pretty good as a rookie.
Quote:
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
Mortensen said that the skeptic of Jones that he has spoken to are now saying that Jones is the "real deal" after watching him in practice.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
I think and hope we may have "stolen" Jones from the rest of the QB hungry teams and truly believe that he would not have lasted until 17. I think DG hit the nail on the head here.
From Wentz, all I know is that from the Tanier article, he said he observed Jones for 3 days, and had similar lengthy exposure to observe Wentz during his rookie year(during same time frame) and that Jones looked better than Wentz at the same point in their development(he made the same comment regarding Jones and Lamar Jackson).
As if the NFL knew with any certainty what Rodgers was going to become back in 2005, when 23 teams decided to pass on him. Had the NFL known Machomes what Mahomes would become,he would have been the slam dunk #1 overall pick. Players continue to grow, improve and change within the NFL, especially quarterbacks..they are not static entities. Rodgers and Mahomes came in with less fanfare than most quarterbacks and certainly didn't arrive with the Luck level hype as a preordained future MVP candidate.
What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:
Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"
AFC scout: "I like him. He's a very talented guy. A lot of quarterbacks that were system people have not done very well. That puts up a red flag. Not that he is one of them. He could be an exception. But I can't get it out of my craw."
Rich Snead, Tennessee: "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out. He's more accurate than (Kyle) Boller but probably not as athletic. He's a better player than Akili Smith. He's more athletic than (Trent) Dilfer was. He's a little more mobile than Joey Harrington. He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."
NFC scout: "(Alex) Smith is the better athlete."
AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."
Jerry Angelo, Chicago: "I'd give Rodgers the edge (over Smith) just because he was easier to evaluate. And there's a little more arm. But the edge is negligible."
NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."
NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."
AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
Bill Polian, Indianapolis: "I see a guy who has good arm strength. I see some athletic ability. I see a guy who was pretty good with a good team. I see a guy who's in a pretty efficient offense. Am I certain that he's going to come in and lead my team to the Promised Land? I can't say that. I'm not even sure I can say that about Alex Smith."
AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."
NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did.
Not exactly MVP level hype being tossed his way, but he certainly proved his doubters wrong.
April 23, 2005: What scouts were saying about Aaron Rodgers - ( New Window )
The sooner we can confirm whether he's the right or wrong pick the better for this organization.
I couldn't have less interest in seeing a 38 year old QB do something good once in a while; but do a lot of mediocre or less most of the time.
This farewell tour needs to end.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
Mental processing is the big ? for any QB. However, DJ8 is the best prospect in that department since Luck.
Quote:
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
There absolutely is an anti NY. It's an absolute fucking joke Parcells and Strahan weren't first ballot HoFers and Bettis is in because he has a cool nickname.
mean much if the OL has shades of itself in recent years: three positions out of five with real ??.
Quote:
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
So true
Yup, you are spot on here.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
I never said it's always bias. I am not one of those fans that whine when a journalist criticizes the team because they definitely deserve it after the past few years.
I've been frequenting PFT for years. Florio has taken so many shots at the Giants, and frequently Eli, even when they were successful.
Florio predicted that the Steelers will "make a deep run" in the playoffs without Bell and Brown despite only receiving a 3rd and 5th round picks. He bashes the Giants for trading Beckham for a 1st, 3rd, and a former 1st round pick with 3 more seasons on his rookie contract.
Quote:
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
So true
Absolutely, just like when Polian said that he wanted to draft Brady.
You've been doing some good posting, imo!
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
I will never forget Ray Lucas' reaction to the pick. A professional sports analyst was literally running around his office laughing in the face of the Giants fans that worked there after the pick. It was recorded so I can't wait to see someone throw that in this shitheads face if Jones is the real deal. That was one of the most unprofessional things I have ever witnessed from an analyst.
Correct!
Florio is both a Steelers and Vikings fan.
"Florio said he started following the National Football League closely when he was about eight years old.
Born and raised in Wheeling, he said it was hard not to be a rabid Pittsburgh Steelers fan in the 1970s, a decade in which the the team won three Super Bowl championships."
You don't have to be Kreskin to see that coming. Actions speak louder than words, words are meaningless.
Quote:
In comment 14471925 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
Florio needs to understand that nobody gives a shit what he thinks...
Bullshit! The fans were pissed he was benched for Geno Fing Smith. The fan reaction will be much different this time if Eli is not playing well.
Quote:
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
True but in the giants case it most definitely is. I can prove it from as far back as the late 80s when even then the giants were as scrutinized as any team going. I remember Gary Myers blasting the giants in the summer of 1989.
For a franchise that has won and won big they take a lot of heat and rarely seem to be extended any benefit of the doubt. It’s a NY media thing. Lately ifs been warranted to some extent but the post draft coverage was downright pathetic.
If he clearly didn't have the arm and the coaches saw it. I don't think Eli is done though.