When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
He then says the guys who dont have as much vested interest in the team said he is one of the best rookies they have ever seen this on this team early on. That is pretty effusive praise. And this is coming from Simms who wasnt a huge fan of his game (Simms has missed alot in evaluation of players by the way lol).
if true it's nothing but good news for the Giants... Â
enthusiastic about their team and their new players. But there's so much good news coming out of our training camp, that I'm having a hard time resisting the urge to get enthusiastic.
I don't know - by the looks of the video, Jones is already shitting Â
enthusiastic about their team and their new players. But there's so much good news coming out of our training camp, that I'm having a hard time resisting the urge to get enthusiastic.
That is true but Eli did not get good reviews at this point in his career.
That is not a criticism of Eli - I am just saying that if he were throwing ducks, we wouldve heard that.
it's obviously never a bad thing to look good in practices, but to some degree that's what's expected of a first round QB. Sure some really good ones struggled early like Eli did, but most guys who get picked rd 1 have appealing traits that lead to exciting glimpses in practice. 1 of Jones' big selling points was his maturity and ability to process information so I don't think it's a shock that he's a quick adjuster, especially in comparison to players who are coming out of college with 1/3 the number of starts he made in college.
He was a very tough evaluation bc of how terrible the duke talent was around him and I think a lot of talking heads are only now catching up to the fact that he has legitimate starting QB talent. Still a lot of hurdles between looking good in shorts and winning NFL games. I'm very excited to see him in preseason.
and practice does matter. OTA's and Mini camp are on the very low end of totem pole of importance.
I forget what offensive lineman said it, but he basically all you should be looking for in these practices is a good team cohesion and groups of players jelling with one another.
There are also players that practice really well, but stink in live action. I'm not saying this is the case with Jones, but it's something to watch in Preseason and or in any game play this year.
especially an EX QB -- value a QB's EXPERIENCE between his ears more than they do? Simms SHOULD know better. Yes, DJ could conceivably "out-physical" Eli in pre-season, and be prepared to play, but he hasn't "seen everything a D will throw at you," or just know the nuances of the game the way Eli has.
That will come, but there should be NOTHING DJ can do to win the starting job early, and he should not see the field during regular season until or unless the team falters.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
Yeah, the executive order may come from Mara and make it all a moot point... but it sounds to me like Shurmur is pretty damn impressed by Daniel so far and that it's not just typical "talk up the rook" coach speak.
I'm not totally against Eli starting Week 1, but I need to see a really quick hook. If we start 0-2 or 1-3... something like that, I want to see Jones then and there. Not when the season is already over and done in late November.
If Jones wins the job outright, they really should just cut Manning - but I know that won't happen.
Jones is expected to be "ready to play" in Week 1. I don't particularly care if he's starting Week 1, but the "being ready" by Week 1 is a really, really big deal, I think.
So many times, a QB will be drafted, there will be excitement around him, but coaches and team officials will caution fans and media about how it's going to "take some time" before he's ready to get a shot. It seems like Jones is going to be "ready" from Week 1.
I agree with those who say there's nothing bad here.
Pete Prisco and Mike Tanier(formerly of footballoutsiders) Â
Two national writers with no vestaed interest in Giants propaganda, attended minicamp and came away raving about Jones. Tanier said he had recently taken long looks at Carson Wentz and Lamar Jackson during the same stages of their respective rookie careers and that Daniel Jones looked to be ahead of both of them.
Two national writers with no vestaed interest in Giants propaganda, attended minicamp and came away raving about Jones. Tanier said he had recently taken long looks at Carson Wentz and Lamar Jackson during the same stages of their respective rookie careers and that Daniel Jones looked to be ahead of both of them.
Nice call . Cant wait to see this kid in preseason. He is going to get A LOT of playing time.
In comment 14471959 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
is bad...
Exactly, obviously DJ has ways to go but hearing all this praise is better than hearing he's struggling. Nothing is promised but the signs are all positive and that is very exciting regardless if they have pads on or not, especially considering who is giving the praise.
I was feeling the same thing. Are the Giants just saying he looks awesome to "spin" the pick? It almost sounds too good to be true sometimes in the reports.
That Simms, a DJ skeptic it is fair to say, checked with reliable sources and they confirmed what we have been hearing. And, it sounds like he is outperformed Manning in the mini-camp and OTA's.
This is very positive. Lets see what happens in camp and in the pre-season. Longshot tat DJ is the starter, but good to know he's on the right track.
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
The 3 first rounders look very strong at this point. Xman looks like he could have a similar impact to Carter a year ago, and Connelly/Slayton have decent shots to fight for playing time. It's early but it's looking like another very strong draft.
what some are saying about there being a QB competition; at least not for the early season or if the Giants/Eli are doing. I think this year, the starting QB position is Eli's to lose. I am very happy to hear Jones is progressing well, but it a lot to ask a rookie QB right out of the gates, particularly when you already have a great vet QB in front of him. Like Simms said, Jones will have to clearly outperform Eli to start.
If he looked like dogshit, they wouldn't pretend otherwise. Â
It's EARLY in the process, but how can this be anything other than good news?
All that being said, I cannot imagine the scenario under which Eli Manning isn't the starter for some portion of this season. The question for me is does this management group (Owners, GM, HC) have the stones to pull a Kurt Warner on Eli because I seriously doubt it. (No way do they have the stones to pull a Russell Wilson.) Eli is going to have to be subpar AND the team is going to have to be eliminated from playoff contention before Jones starts IMO.
There’s just no way he won’t be...but I think Jones will finish the season as the starter. I think the baton gets passed in season. Obviously there are scenarios where that wouldn’t happen..but I think that’s ultimately how it will play out based on all the information to this point and general expectations for the team in 2019.
I watched that this morning, and found it extremely interesting. I mean yeah it's shorts against air and when it's team on team it's no real coverage but good beats bad every time.
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
The 3 first rounders look very strong at this point. Xman looks like he could have a similar impact to Carter a year ago, and Connelly/Slayton have decent shots to fight for playing time. It's early but it's looking like another very strong draft.
The guys that are trending as misses from round 5 and up are quite few. In fact only Lauletta. All the other guys have shown varying levels of promise. Still early but preseason should give us a little more data.
RE: If he looked like dogshit, they wouldn't pretend otherwise. Â
It's EARLY in the process, but how can this be anything other than good news?
All that being said, I cannot imagine the scenario under which Eli Manning isn't the starter for some portion of this season. The question for me is does this management group (Owners, GM, HC) have the stones to pull a Kurt Warner on Eli because I seriously doubt it. (No way do they have the stones to pull a Russell Wilson.) Eli is going to have to be subpar AND the team is going to have to be eliminated from playoff contention before Jones starts IMO.
If Eli is going strong no. But if he starts to struggle and Jones is lighting it up in practice absolutely.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
Yeah, the executive order may come from Mara and make it all a moot point... but it sounds to me like Shurmur is pretty damn impressed by Daniel so far and that it's not just typical "talk up the rook" coach speak.
I'm not totally against Eli starting Week 1, but I need to see a really quick hook. If we start 0-2 or 1-3... something like that, I want to see Jones then and there. Not when the season is already over and done in late November.
If Jones wins the job outright, they really should just cut Manning - but I know that won't happen.
I wouldn't want to cut Manning even if he's 2 on the depth chart. Jones will learn a lot from having a HOFer instructing him on the sidelines.
especially an EX QB -- value a QB's EXPERIENCE between his ears more than they do? Simms SHOULD know better. Yes, DJ could conceivably "out-physical" Eli in pre-season, and be prepared to play, but he hasn't "seen everything a D will throw at you," or just know the nuances of the game the way Eli has.
That will come, but there should be NOTHING DJ can do to win the starting job early, and he should not see the field during regular season until or unless the team falters.
Nothing? Really? If he outperforms Eli in every respect he should still sit on the bench?
I just want to clarify your position because I'm having difficulty accepting that someone would post something that asinine.
and plays in a game at live speed with a pass rush. Sinorice Moss was a OTA superstar too
Fair point, but QB play is a bit more easy to see issues with like missing wide open targets, running the wrong play, etc. It's easier to screw up as a QB and there is no doubt that after the pre-season , Jones > Eli was at that point of his career and he's done better then every other QB I can recall then drafting from Nassib to Lauletta. At least it isn't a negative!
... but I keep seeing people posting that he is outplaying Eli in OTAs. I have seen plenty of glowing write-ups on how DJ looks and is doing at this stage of his career but I have not seen anyone specifically write that he is "way outplaying" Eli.
This is all great stuff and if it's true it's not a bad thing, but this is OTAs in shorts. Are they important? Absolutely but making some kind of decision on who the starter is/should be based on OTAs is kinda silly. Let's see it play out.
I always want to like Chris Simms obviously because of his Dad Â
but I'm baffled. So what does this tell us about Simms analysis of DJ and maybe others? He apparently just listens to media types to prejudge before the draft. Then tells us what he hears from others supposedly with the team once the player starts practicing. So know matter how DJ turns out his bases are covered. Apparently what's been said that the NFL teams were much higher on Jones than the media was reporting must be true. Now I suppose the Giants could be spinning these positive reports to make themselves look good but I doubt it. If Simms is right he's listening to people he trusts on/with the Giants or have close connections to them maybe even his Dad. So far so good I'm liking what I'm hearing.
Numerous sources outside giantsland that have made their own first hand observations. From his pro day to his private workouts to OTAs/minicamps...Jones seems like he’s on a roll.
is “maybe” DG and Shurmur are pretty good at evaluating players. Jones seems to have a more complete set of skills than I thought. Training camp will be VERY interesting when the bullets start flying. Going on 8/1 to see for myself.
Everyone must have a short term memory, i'm pretty sure last year was the most impressive rookie in Giants history
Uhhh. In preseason I'm pretty sure LT was the most impressive in Giants history. Moved into the starting roll in the 2nd practice on a team that already had good linebackers.
I think one thing to keep in mind here is that this shouldn't be too surprising (although if you're one of those folks who was misled about his arm being weak then I suppose it would be). Jones has great touch, timing, and accuracy - and can drive the ball - he should look great in shorts.
But I really hope they don't rush him into service this year.
will really make it tough for Eli. First bad game he has, fans will be chanting for the kid.
. Thisis a very true prognostication. I have seen it many times in the past. Many Giant fans want a scapegoat and ELI will be the target of choice if he loses a couple of games early.
the Giants' "gift of gratitude" to Eli was not cutting him and letting him get every dollar of his contract.
And I don't know if there was an actual verbal agreement or not, but I think that what the Giants expect in return for that gift is to move onto Jones as soon as possible without any awkwardness or controversy.
I just think all of this positive messaging about Jones that's been hitting the general public is setting the table for something. And that something is moving on to The Succession Plan as soon as possible, so that the public is prepared and the transition is as graceful as possible.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
All this is really good news so far, I hope it continues. I am certainly rooting for him.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
Does anyone know what was said of Wentz, Mahomes, etc. during their rookie OTA's? I ask this not as a knock on Jones, but just for comparisons sake, if they also had gushing reviews...
I think and hope we may have "stolen" Jones from the rest of the QB hungry teams and truly believe that he would not have lasted until 17. I think DG hit the nail on the head here.
From Wentz, all I know is that from the Tanier article, he said he observed Jones for 3 days, and had similar lengthy exposure to observe Wentz during his rookie year(during same time frame) and that Jones looked better than Wentz at the same point in their development(he made the same comment regarding Jones and Lamar Jackson).
I find it interesting that we are cautioned that we Â
have no way of knowing what Daniel Jones will be based off early rave reviews, but somehow we can say with certainty what he will not be(Mahomes/Rodgers). Fascinating.
As if the NFL knew with any certainty what Rodgers was going to become back in 2005, when 23 teams decided to pass on him. Had the NFL known Machomes what Mahomes would become,he would have been the slam dunk #1 overall pick. Players continue to grow, improve and change within the NFL, especially quarterbacks..they are not static entities. Rodgers and Mahomes came in with less fanfare than most quarterbacks and certainly didn't arrive with the Luck level hype as a preordained future MVP candidate.
about Rodgers back in 2005 when 23 teams passed on him:
Quote:
What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:
Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"
AFC scout: "I like him. He's a very talented guy. A lot of quarterbacks that were system people have not done very well. That puts up a red flag. Not that he is one of them. He could be an exception. But I can't get it out of my craw."
Rich Snead, Tennessee: "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out. He's more accurate than (Kyle) Boller but probably not as athletic. He's a better player than Akili Smith. He's more athletic than (Trent) Dilfer was. He's a little more mobile than Joey Harrington. He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."
NFC scout: "(Alex) Smith is the better athlete."
AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."
Jerry Angelo, Chicago: "I'd give Rodgers the edge (over Smith) just because he was easier to evaluate. And there's a little more arm. But the edge is negligible."
NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."
NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."
AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
Bill Polian, Indianapolis: "I see a guy who has good arm strength. I see some athletic ability. I see a guy who was pretty good with a good team. I see a guy who's in a pretty efficient offense. Am I certain that he's going to come in and lead my team to the Promised Land? I can't say that. I'm not even sure I can say that about Alex Smith."
AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."
NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did.
All this is really good news so far, I hope it continues. I am certainly rooting for him.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
Mental processing is the big ? for any QB. However, DJ8 is the best prospect in that department since Luck.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
There absolutely is an anti NY. It's an absolute fucking joke Parcells and Strahan weren't first ballot HoFers and Bettis is in because he has a cool nickname.
are or not doing, 1 or five games into the season, isn't going to
mean much if the OL has shades of itself in recent years: three positions out of five with real ??.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
out of 5 with real question marks? LT,LG, and RG should be fine. I can see question marks at C and RT, however those questions marks were there a year ago and the line did improve over final 8 games..I feel that performance should be the baseline for this unit and hopefully and uptick with Halapio and Remmers filling in..but they are question marks for sure, considering durability coming off injury. If Remmers can just hold up I have to consider that a big upgrade over Wheeler even if he is mediocre.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
I never said it's always bias. I am not one of those fans that whine when a journalist criticizes the team because they definitely deserve it after the past few years.
I've been frequenting PFT for years. Florio has taken so many shots at the Giants, and frequently Eli, even when they were successful.
Florio predicted that the Steelers will "make a deep run" in the playoffs without Bell and Brown despite only receiving a 3rd and 5th round picks. He bashes the Giants for trading Beckham for a 1st, 3rd, and a former 1st round pick with 3 more seasons on his rookie contract.
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
So true
Absolutely, just like when Polian said that he wanted to draft Brady.
competition, was off the cuff and not discussed with DG and upper management before it was made. Unless Shurmur is an idiot who could not anticipate the media circus it would produce. But he may be, not that bigtht, or knew exactly what he was starting. Do not see this as a positive for this young team at this time.
When did Shurmur say there was a QB competition? Â
Would be having those draft network boy band looking bags of douche on Twitter who still won't STFU about him being a terrible prospect choke on their words.
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
Would be having those draft network boy band looking bags of douche on Twitter who still won't STFU about him being a terrible prospect choke on their words.
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
I will never forget Ray Lucas' reaction to the pick. A professional sports analyst was literally running around his office laughing in the face of the Giants fans that worked there after the pick. It was recorded so I can't wait to see someone throw that in this shitheads face if Jones is the real deal. That was one of the most unprofessional things I have ever witnessed from an analyst.
I don't think there's any way that Jones will be able to Â
read NFL defenses by week one, and if this is the case, his performance will be a combination of indecisiveness and interceptions and the coaching staff will look foolish for having started him ahead of Eli.
Simms does bring some good takes. BTW, Florio’s a big Vikings fan not a Steelers fan. Simms busts his chops about it all the time during the shows.
Florio is both a Steelers and Vikings fan.
"Florio said he started following the National Football League closely when he was about eight years old.
Born and raised in Wheeling, he said it was hard not to be a rabid Pittsburgh Steelers fan in the 1970s, a decade in which the the team won three Super Bowl championships."
RE: I don't know - by the looks of the video, Jones is already shitting Â
I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
You don't have to be Kreskin to see that coming. Actions speak louder than words, words are meaningless.
as long as Eli is healthy enough to play the owners Â
do not have the balls to sit him down no matter how bad he plays. They learned their lesson last 2 years ago by hearing it from the fans, Eli will start and stay this coming season no matter how bad he plays, the owners will make a boatload of money and Eli will still play, its just the way it is in business...
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
Florio needs to understand that nobody gives a shit what he thinks...
RE: as long as Eli is healthy enough to play the owners Â
do not have the balls to sit him down no matter how bad he plays. They learned their lesson last 2 years ago by hearing it from the fans, Eli will start and stay this coming season no matter how bad he plays, the owners will make a boatload of money and Eli will still play, its just the way it is in business...
Bullshit! The fans were pissed he was benched for Geno Fing Smith. The fan reaction will be much different this time if Eli is not playing well.
When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
True but in the giants case it most definitely is. I can prove it from as far back as the late 80s when even then the giants were as scrutinized as any team going. I remember Gary Myers blasting the giants in the summer of 1989.
For a franchise that has won and won big they take a lot of heat and rarely seem to be extended any benefit of the doubt. It’s a NY media thing. Lately ifs been warranted to some extent but the post draft coverage was downright pathetic.
The only way Eli would be cut in camp is if his body couldn't play Â
Yes. But listen to his comments about "at first, I thought this was propaganda until I checked with some other people...".
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Get more picks and get your guy next year.
/ducks
Drafting good players is this team's return to contention.
That is true but Eli did not get good reviews at this point in his career.
That is not a criticism of Eli - I am just saying that if he were throwing ducks, we wouldve heard that.
He was a very tough evaluation bc of how terrible the duke talent was around him and I think a lot of talking heads are only now catching up to the fact that he has legitimate starting QB talent. Still a lot of hurdles between looking good in shorts and winning NFL games. I'm very excited to see him in preseason.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
But this isn't coming from fans or media, it's coming from inside the organization or those with connections to the organization.
Big difference.
I forget what offensive lineman said it, but he basically all you should be looking for in these practices is a good team cohesion and groups of players jelling with one another.
There are also players that practice really well, but stink in live action. I'm not saying this is the case with Jones, but it's something to watch in Preseason and or in any game play this year.
That will come, but there should be NOTHING DJ can do to win the starting job early, and he should not see the field during regular season until or unless the team falters.
Pot meet kettle
Quote:
I have it on now - about halfway through.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
Yeah, the executive order may come from Mara and make it all a moot point... but it sounds to me like Shurmur is pretty damn impressed by Daniel so far and that it's not just typical "talk up the rook" coach speak.
I'm not totally against Eli starting Week 1, but I need to see a really quick hook. If we start 0-2 or 1-3... something like that, I want to see Jones then and there. Not when the season is already over and done in late November.
If Jones wins the job outright, they really should just cut Manning - but I know that won't happen.
So many times, a QB will be drafted, there will be excitement around him, but coaches and team officials will caution fans and media about how it's going to "take some time" before he's ready to get a shot. It seems like Jones is going to be "ready" from Week 1.
I agree with those who say there's nothing bad here.
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
Nice call . Cant wait to see this kid in preseason. He is going to get A LOT of playing time.
Exactly, obviously DJ has ways to go but hearing all this praise is better than hearing he's struggling. Nothing is promised but the signs are all positive and that is very exciting regardless if they have pads on or not, especially considering who is giving the praise.
This is my "BBI post of the month".
I was feeling the same thing. Are the Giants just saying he looks awesome to "spin" the pick? It almost sounds too good to be true sometimes in the reports.
That Simms, a DJ skeptic it is fair to say, checked with reliable sources and they confirmed what we have been hearing. And, it sounds like he is outperformed Manning in the mini-camp and OTA's.
This is very positive. Lets see what happens in camp and in the pre-season. Longshot tat DJ is the starter, but good to know he's on the right track.
In comment 14471920 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He was very critical of the pick too, wasn't he?
Yes. But listen to his comments about "at first, I thought this was propaganda until I checked with some other people...".
Quote:
Archie Manning told him to draft this bum!
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
The 3 first rounders look very strong at this point. Xman looks like he could have a similar impact to Carter a year ago, and Connelly/Slayton have decent shots to fight for playing time. It's early but it's looking like another very strong draft.
All that being said, I cannot imagine the scenario under which Eli Manning isn't the starter for some portion of this season. The question for me is does this management group (Owners, GM, HC) have the stones to pull a Kurt Warner on Eli because I seriously doubt it. (No way do they have the stones to pull a Russell Wilson.) Eli is going to have to be subpar AND the team is going to have to be eliminated from playoff contention before Jones starts IMO.
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In comment 14471968 Chris684 said:
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Archie Manning told him to draft this bum!
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
The 3 first rounders look very strong at this point. Xman looks like he could have a similar impact to Carter a year ago, and Connelly/Slayton have decent shots to fight for playing time. It's early but it's looking like another very strong draft.
The guys that are trending as misses from round 5 and up are quite few. In fact only Lauletta. All the other guys have shown varying levels of promise. Still early but preseason should give us a little more data.
All that being said, I cannot imagine the scenario under which Eli Manning isn't the starter for some portion of this season. The question for me is does this management group (Owners, GM, HC) have the stones to pull a Kurt Warner on Eli because I seriously doubt it. (No way do they have the stones to pull a Russell Wilson.) Eli is going to have to be subpar AND the team is going to have to be eliminated from playoff contention before Jones starts IMO.
If Eli is going strong no. But if he starts to struggle and Jones is lighting it up in practice absolutely.
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In comment 14471924 arcarsenal said:
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I have it on now - about halfway through.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
Yeah, the executive order may come from Mara and make it all a moot point... but it sounds to me like Shurmur is pretty damn impressed by Daniel so far and that it's not just typical "talk up the rook" coach speak.
I'm not totally against Eli starting Week 1, but I need to see a really quick hook. If we start 0-2 or 1-3... something like that, I want to see Jones then and there. Not when the season is already over and done in late November.
If Jones wins the job outright, they really should just cut Manning - but I know that won't happen.
I wouldn't want to cut Manning even if he's 2 on the depth chart. Jones will learn a lot from having a HOFer instructing him on the sidelines.
That will come, but there should be NOTHING DJ can do to win the starting job early, and he should not see the field during regular season until or unless the team falters.
Nothing? Really? If he outperforms Eli in every respect he should still sit on the bench?
I just want to clarify your position because I'm having difficulty accepting that someone would post something that asinine.
This is all great stuff and if it's true it's not a bad thing, but this is OTAs in shorts. Are they important? Absolutely but making some kind of decision on who the starter is/should be based on OTAs is kinda silly. Let's see it play out.
Uhhh. In preseason I'm pretty sure LT was the most impressive in Giants history. Moved into the starting roll in the 2nd practice on a team that already had good linebackers.
But I really hope they don't rush him into service this year.
Other than that, their resumes are identical.
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I have it on now - about halfway through.
I'm not sure the QB competition stuff is smoke... it sounds to me like Jones is simply outperforming Manning thus far.
Tiny amount of time and it's not even camp yet, but it may not all be lip service from Shurmur.
I still think it's Eli week 1.... but I'm not sure that's quite set in stone.
Unfortunately, as far as the starting QB goes, the head coach may want it to be more of a competition than those above him in the org...
This narrative about Mara controlling whom the coach should play is so silly and yet gets repeated and actually believed by those that write it.
And I don't know if there was an actual verbal agreement or not, but I think that what the Giants expect in return for that gift is to move onto Jones as soon as possible without any awkwardness or controversy.
I just think all of this positive messaging about Jones that's been hitting the general public is setting the table for something. And that something is moving on to The Succession Plan as soon as possible, so that the public is prepared and the transition is as graceful as possible.
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Archie Manning told him to draft this bum!
Gettleman may have pulled off 2 Home Run drafts in a row. This year is going to be extremely interesting to see this further confirmed or shot down.
Its like Parcells selecting 3 HoFers for Dallas, completely 180'd that franchise.
I think people are just getting this SENSE that DJ8 is the real deal, like having Secretariat in your stable.
performs well in pre season we could have a QB controversy on out hands before game 4.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
I think LT was pretty good as a rookie.
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When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
Mortensen said that the skeptic of Jones that he has spoken to are now saying that Jones is the "real deal" after watching him in practice.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
I think and hope we may have "stolen" Jones from the rest of the QB hungry teams and truly believe that he would not have lasted until 17. I think DG hit the nail on the head here.
From Wentz, all I know is that from the Tanier article, he said he observed Jones for 3 days, and had similar lengthy exposure to observe Wentz during his rookie year(during same time frame) and that Jones looked better than Wentz at the same point in their development(he made the same comment regarding Jones and Lamar Jackson).
As if the NFL knew with any certainty what Rodgers was going to become back in 2005, when 23 teams decided to pass on him. Had the NFL known Machomes what Mahomes would become,he would have been the slam dunk #1 overall pick. Players continue to grow, improve and change within the NFL, especially quarterbacks..they are not static entities. Rodgers and Mahomes came in with less fanfare than most quarterbacks and certainly didn't arrive with the Luck level hype as a preordained future MVP candidate.
What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:
Marc Ross, Buffalo: "He's a little short. The thing you worry about is those (Jeff) Tedford guys. They don't do anything for a couple years and then they have a good year or two. Who of his quarterbacks has done what they're supposed to do? None of them. Is he just working magic with great college quarterbacks or just manufacturing guys?"
AFC scout: "I like him. He's a very talented guy. A lot of quarterbacks that were system people have not done very well. That puts up a red flag. Not that he is one of them. He could be an exception. But I can't get it out of my craw."
Rich Snead, Tennessee: "I like him. I just don't know if he's maxed out. He's more accurate than (Kyle) Boller but probably not as athletic. He's a better player than Akili Smith. He's more athletic than (Trent) Dilfer was. He's a little more mobile than Joey Harrington. He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."
NFC scout: "(Alex) Smith is the better athlete."
AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."
Jerry Angelo, Chicago: "I'd give Rodgers the edge (over Smith) just because he was easier to evaluate. And there's a little more arm. But the edge is negligible."
NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."
NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."
AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
Bill Polian, Indianapolis: "I see a guy who has good arm strength. I see some athletic ability. I see a guy who was pretty good with a good team. I see a guy who's in a pretty efficient offense. Am I certain that he's going to come in and lead my team to the Promised Land? I can't say that. I'm not even sure I can say that about Alex Smith."
AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."
NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did.
Not exactly MVP level hype being tossed his way, but he certainly proved his doubters wrong.
April 23, 2005: What scouts were saying about Aaron Rodgers - ( New Window )
The sooner we can confirm whether he's the right or wrong pick the better for this organization.
I couldn't have less interest in seeing a 38 year old QB do something good once in a while; but do a lot of mediocre or less most of the time.
This farewell tour needs to end.
That said, the rubber doesn't meet the road until he is in real games. Reading real defenses, making real decisions.
For me, I was never concerned about his arm, or anything from a physical standpoint. It all comes down to the mental processing at the line of scrimmage and once the ball is snapped.
Mental processing is the big ? for any QB. However, DJ8 is the best prospect in that department since Luck.
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When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
There absolutely is an anti NY. It's an absolute fucking joke Parcells and Strahan weren't first ballot HoFers and Bettis is in because he has a cool nickname.
mean much if the OL has shades of itself in recent years: three positions out of five with real ??.
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I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
So true
Yup, you are spot on here.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
I never said it's always bias. I am not one of those fans that whine when a journalist criticizes the team because they definitely deserve it after the past few years.
I've been frequenting PFT for years. Florio has taken so many shots at the Giants, and frequently Eli, even when they were successful.
Florio predicted that the Steelers will "make a deep run" in the playoffs without Bell and Brown despite only receiving a 3rd and 5th round picks. He bashes the Giants for trading Beckham for a 1st, 3rd, and a former 1st round pick with 3 more seasons on his rookie contract.
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I've been saying, if Jones comes out and looks great in the preseason, it's going to suddenly come out about how some of those teams really did want Jones. Just watch.
So true
Absolutely, just like when Polian said that he wanted to draft Brady.
You've been doing some good posting, imo!
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
So disappointed in their coverage, not all of them, but virtually all of them. You don't like a prospect, fine. But to still be talking trash about him is just weird and annoying.
I will never forget Ray Lucas' reaction to the pick. A professional sports analyst was literally running around his office laughing in the face of the Giants fans that worked there after the pick. It was recorded so I can't wait to see someone throw that in this shitheads face if Jones is the real deal. That was one of the most unprofessional things I have ever witnessed from an analyst.
Correct!
Florio is both a Steelers and Vikings fan.
"Florio said he started following the National Football League closely when he was about eight years old.
Born and raised in Wheeling, he said it was hard not to be a rabid Pittsburgh Steelers fan in the 1970s, a decade in which the the team won three Super Bowl championships."
You don't have to be Kreskin to see that coming. Actions speak louder than words, words are meaningless.
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In comment 14471925 Jay on the Island said:
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When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
Florio has a weird dislike for the Giants, I was actually suprised to read he was a Steelers fan. Actually thought he was a Redskins fans and with how much he bashes the Giants it made sense. Maybe he looks at the Giants like a poor man's version of the Steelers or something.
Florio needs to understand that nobody gives a shit what he thinks...
Bullshit! The fans were pissed he was benched for Geno Fing Smith. The fan reaction will be much different this time if Eli is not playing well.
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When Florio is not around. I don’t know what Florio has against the Giants, he doesn’t hide the fact that he is a Steelers fan, but he’s always taking shots at them.
People take shots against the Giants often do so because the Giants have sucked.
It's not always bias or conspiracy.
True but in the giants case it most definitely is. I can prove it from as far back as the late 80s when even then the giants were as scrutinized as any team going. I remember Gary Myers blasting the giants in the summer of 1989.
For a franchise that has won and won big they take a lot of heat and rarely seem to be extended any benefit of the doubt. It’s a NY media thing. Lately ifs been warranted to some extent but the post draft coverage was downright pathetic.
If he clearly didn't have the arm and the coaches saw it. I don't think Eli is done though.