I’d have to say Derrick Brooks. Insane speed. Could cover, chase you down back side, shoot a gap for a TFL or Sack, Leader both in and off the field. Don’t think you build them more complete than Brooks.
Nobis was a tackling machine. Was a good-sometimes very good player but never great. Despite a good career he underachieved a bit with how hyped he was coming out of Texas as the first pick overall in the NFL draft (went 5th in the AFL draft)
It’s in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 so he doesn’t get the glamor stats but i am not sure I have seen a better pure linebacker. If you are going to count the olb in a 3-4 (who are really edge rushers in my mind) von Miller in recent years has been something else.
RE: I am actually surprised no one has said keuchly Â
It’s in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 so he doesn’t get the glamor stats but i am not sure I have seen a better pure linebacker. If you are going to count the olb in a 3-4 (who are really edge rushers in my mind) von Miller in recent years has been something else.
Don't be surprised. Someone said him.
Quote:
I'm sure these guys were all mentioned
pjcas18 : 3:20 pm : link : reply
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.
Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.
'80s: Mike Singletary
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis
Good list, I think DT and Rev Ray stand alone in their decades. Andre Tippett was great outside, I think as good as MS but different positions. I don’t think Willis was as good as Bobby Wagner or Keuchley in the 10s, but he was terrific. Was Willis even better than Bowmen?
Good call to whoever mentioned the Saints LBs, Pat Swilling could dominate a game.
This, he doesn’t get the publicity as some of the previously aforementioned, but like LT, he really put the fear of god into opposing QB’s. He had the quickest first step of any player at that position I had ever seen, including LT.
If he were able to finish his career, he’d probably be the all time sack leader.
I'm sure these guys were all mentioned
pjcas18 : 3:20 pm : link : reply
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.
Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.
But the guy who belongs in the discussion as much as Butkus is Seth Joyner, although it doesn't surprise me that I'm the first to mention him. He's always been under appreciated, even in his day, because of the great Eagles DL that played in front of him.
In my mind there hasn't been a better 4-3 SAM-backer in the league since Joyner. He could stop the run, rush the passer, and cover too. He was a complete LB, the prototype at SAM.
but from this era, Patrick Willis. He was dominant for his entire career. I wish I could have seen better Linebackers on our squad growing up. I know Sam Huff and Jesse Armstead were both total badasses, along with all the guys we had in the 80's. Seems like we're trying to get back to making LB a priority under Gettleman which I'm very glad about.
He had a great speed rush. And that ends any comparison to LT (and others).
He didn’t have the all around game and make plays all over the field. He was a pass rush specialist.
100%. I cringe when people place DT so high on lists like this. He was extremely one dimensional. Pure outside speed based edge rusher who relied on Arrowheads homefield advantage to beat opposing OLineman at the snap. Check out his Home/Road splits when it comes to Sacks. Do people forget how the Bills forced the Chiefs to bench DT in a playoff game because they kept running it at him?
Ware, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack are all more complete players than DT was. Miller is even comparable off the edge while being better at everything else.
Eric great choice with Seau, I think he is one of the most underrated players of the last 30 years. He was an amazing do it all linebacker and probably better than Lewis/Brooks from a pure talent perspective. I’ve always been a huge Brooks fan though, just perfect at his role.
LT is the best defensive player I have ever seen. Taylor was a singular talent and a genetic freak.
Most people are grossly underrating Jack Ham. He was fast, quick, and was a great tackler. Ham had very large hands, and he was an exceptional cover LB. Jack is third in NFL history with 32 interceptions. He could catch a football behind his back with one hand.
Carl Banks said that if Pro Football Focus used analytics to rank linebackers, Ham would be the best LB in NFL history. Jack may not be LT, but he was an extraordinary LB.
Still would of preferred him over Daniel Jones. Josh Allen, Lawerence and Baker would been huge
+1
That really could have fixed the defense (or gone a long way toward doing so) for a long time. All 3 would have been a perfect fit for Bettcher's defense, and especially Allen who would have been the ideal " 'tweener" that could play the jack/joker in Bettcher's 3-4. I personally believe Allen will go on to have a better career than Bosa. He was one of the top 3 players in the draft (in a deep draft for EDGE rushers and defense in general) and the reason he fell was in part due to the fact that he was a bit of a 'tweener... but he was the exact 'tweener we needed for Bettcher's D. I would have loved to see them get all the pieces in place to make a run and THEN get the QB in a 2020 draft that is going to undoubtedly be deep at QB. Regardless of where we were picking in the 2020 draft we were likely going to have a shot at an NFL-ready top prospect QB. Tua, Herbert, Fromm, Eason... and those are just the guys we KNOW about. We had no idea Murray and Haskins would be possible 1st round picks this time last year, and there will undoubtedly be more QBs who rise up the draft ranks over the course of the 2019-20 CFB season. Now, instead, we still have absolutely zero pass rush... top-notch pass rushers are NOT easy to find and there's no way we're going to be able to compete in the NFCE without a pass rush the next few years.
Sorry, I know we're all supposed to be rah rah and optimistic now that the draft has been over for a couple months and Jones is making some nice throws wearing gym shorts. /rant over
'80s: Mike Singletary
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis
Good list, I think DT and Rev Ray stand alone in their decades. Andre Tippett was great outside, I think as good as MS but different positions. I don’t think Willis was as good as Bobby Wagner or Keuchley in the 10s, but he was terrific. Was Willis even better than Bowmen?
Good call to whoever mentioned the Saints LBs, Pat Swilling could dominate a game.
Willis was the best MLB in the NFL from 2007-2010 undeniably, and perhaps still the best MLB the next 2 seasons. Bowman while he was an amazing player benefited from Vic Fangio moving Willis over to Takeo Spikes old spot and putting Bowman in Willis'.
Early Willis years, like Frank Gore were phenomenal, on a level better than what the national fans saw during the Harbaugh years. Willis two early highlights are chasing a WR down 60 yards to save a TD and an 86 yard pick 6 in Seattle.......this was a linebacker not a DB. Kuechly and Wagner while they are consistently excellent cannot do such things (and neither could Bowman).
Willis had zero weaknesses in his game. I would say that Kuechly is maybe a better fit in the very current NFL as he seems to have a better nose for pass defense (16 INTs career vs Willis 8, Wagner 9), but Wagner is a better run defender than Kuechly....and neither still as good against the run as Willis in his prime.
In the end, the typical fan will see Wagner/Kuechly as better than Willis because of longer careers and recency bias, much the same way Brady is seen as better than Montana even though it took Brady a good 4 or 5 more seasons to get his 4th ring.
You pretty much committed suicide to your own OP, with Butkus.
I guess it comes down to do you like the proto-typical MLB or the OLB type
I don’t know about that, man...
Swilling rocked!
The best cover linebacker I've seen is unfortunately Ray Lewis. 2003 Ray Lewis was as productive at MIKE in coverage as a top tier corner.
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis
Lambert - ( New Window )
If you ever had an accurate thought, it would die of loneliness.
Good call.
And somehow Ray Lewis escaped my mind.
Jack Lambert is a close 3rd
I know people will knock this, but DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller are closer to LT impact than some current HOFers.
Lewis and Seau are close to Butkus level, but from college I've always felt Brooks was a better all-around LB than Lewis.
Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.
but none of these guys are really close to LT.
Make that the 3rd mention of Lanier and Bell both!
DeMarcus Ware was a beast through his first what 6-7 seasons? But then slowed down or fell off quite a bit.
is that NO ONE really came CLOSE to LT.
At his peak he was like Thor came from his realm of G-ds to play football among earthlings.
Butkus
Lewis
Hendricks
Lambert
Seau
Nitsche
Bednarik
Harry (I loved Harry)
Bell
Lots of very good linebackers
Nobis was a tackling machine. Was a good-sometimes very good player but never great. Despite a good career he underachieved a bit with how hyped he was coming out of Texas as the first pick overall in the NFL draft (went 5th in the AFL draft)
Joe Schmidt. Bednarik.
Don't be surprised. Someone said him.
pjcas18 : 3:20 pm : link : reply
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.
Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.
but none of these guys are really close to LT.
Never saw Butkus but Jack Lambert is up there for me. Derrick Thomas also. Some guys are great and in the right scheme. Some guys transcend scheme.
If Keuchley can stop having concussion issues hes moving up the
List. Dude is amazing.
Quote:
That's out of whack, so I'm gonna chip in a 2nd nomination for Lanier. That trio, too of Lanier, Bell & Lynch was awesome.
Make that the 3rd mention of Lanier and Bell both!
DeMarcus Ware was a beast through his first what 6-7 seasons? But then slowed down or fell off quite a bit.
I think that Chiefs trio flies under the radar because of the old AFL. Didn't know Jim Lynch was in the College HOF.
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis
Good list, I think DT and Rev Ray stand alone in their decades. Andre Tippett was great outside, I think as good as MS but different positions. I don’t think Willis was as good as Bobby Wagner or Keuchley in the 10s, but he was terrific. Was Willis even better than Bowmen?
Good call to whoever mentioned the Saints LBs, Pat Swilling could dominate a game.
After him I'd say Singletary, Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Von Miller, Pat Swilling, and maybe even Karl Mecklenburg.
He didn’t have the all around game and make plays all over the field. He was a pass rush specialist.
Greg Lloyd - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Wilbur Marshall
Junior Seau
They could do it all and they were constant relentless forces.
By the time I started really watching Carson was in decline - I have more fond memories of Banks and Armstead.
#2. Brad Van Pelt
#3. Ray Nitschke
Never saw Butkus but Jack Lambert is up there for me. Derrick Thomas also. Some guys are great and in the right scheme. Some guys transcend scheme.
If Keuchley can stop having concussion issues hes moving up the
List. Dude is amazing.
I’m no Ray Lewis fan, but I don’t know how you could say he is overrated when he was the centerpiece for one of the best defenses ever.
This, he doesn’t get the publicity as some of the previously aforementioned, but like LT, he really put the fear of god into opposing QB’s. He had the quickest first step of any player at that position I had ever seen, including LT.
If he were able to finish his career, he’d probably be the all time sack leader.
Don't be so surprised.
pjcas18 : 3:20 pm : link : reply
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.
Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.
but none of these guys are really close to LT.
But the guy who belongs in the discussion as much as Butkus is Seth Joyner, although it doesn't surprise me that I'm the first to mention him. He's always been under appreciated, even in his day, because of the great Eagles DL that played in front of him.
In my mind there hasn't been a better 4-3 SAM-backer in the league since Joyner. He could stop the run, rush the passer, and cover too. He was a complete LB, the prototype at SAM.
(I know not the original question just adding .02)
Ted "Mad Stork" Hendricks:
4 Super Bowls, played 15 seasons, 26 interceptions, 25 blocked FG/PAT's, 4 safeties, 8 Pro Bowls.
When L.T. first came up, they were comparing him to Hendricks! That's how good Ted was.
Here's another great article from the S.I. Vault
WHO IS THIS MAD HATTER?
Howie Long Narrates. Long called LT the best he ever saw, but said Hendricks was right up there with LT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrU45Vl6jbw
Lyle Alzado is on this video, and is calling Ted "out there" and "strange". If Alzado called you "strange", wow!
(I know not the original question just adding .02)
Arrington was a beast in college. Never forgot a play where tackled a RB with one arm and at the same time celebrated with the other.
He didn’t have the all around game and make plays all over the field. He was a pass rush specialist.
100%. I cringe when people place DT so high on lists like this. He was extremely one dimensional. Pure outside speed based edge rusher who relied on Arrowheads homefield advantage to beat opposing OLineman at the snap. Check out his Home/Road splits when it comes to Sacks. Do people forget how the Bills forced the Chiefs to bench DT in a playoff game because they kept running it at him?
Ware, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack are all more complete players than DT was. Miller is even comparable off the edge while being better at everything else.
Eric great choice with Seau, I think he is one of the most underrated players of the last 30 years. He was an amazing do it all linebacker and probably better than Lewis/Brooks from a pure talent perspective. I’ve always been a huge Brooks fan though, just perfect at his role.
Most people are grossly underrating Jack Ham. He was fast, quick, and was a great tackler. Ham had very large hands, and he was an exceptional cover LB. Jack is third in NFL history with 32 interceptions. He could catch a football behind his back with one hand.
Carl Banks said that if Pro Football Focus used analytics to rank linebackers, Ham would be the best LB in NFL history. Jack may not be LT, but he was an extraordinary LB.
Thomas wasn’t close to #2. All of the guys you listed were much better LBs(and many more were too).
Special shout out, too, to Kevin Greene. I think he was a better all-around player than Thomas.
#2 to LT? Tippett I’m he mid 80s.
LT held up for longer, but what JJ did for a few years had to be close to LT I imagine?
The Giants of the 80s overshadowed another outstanding LB corps because of LT. The Saints, with Swilling, Jackson, and Mills were excellent.
LT is like Chuck Norris... even when excluded from the conversation he's still the greatest player in history.
+1
That really could have fixed the defense (or gone a long way toward doing so) for a long time. All 3 would have been a perfect fit for Bettcher's defense, and especially Allen who would have been the ideal " 'tweener" that could play the jack/joker in Bettcher's 3-4. I personally believe Allen will go on to have a better career than Bosa. He was one of the top 3 players in the draft (in a deep draft for EDGE rushers and defense in general) and the reason he fell was in part due to the fact that he was a bit of a 'tweener... but he was the exact 'tweener we needed for Bettcher's D. I would have loved to see them get all the pieces in place to make a run and THEN get the QB in a 2020 draft that is going to undoubtedly be deep at QB. Regardless of where we were picking in the 2020 draft we were likely going to have a shot at an NFL-ready top prospect QB. Tua, Herbert, Fromm, Eason... and those are just the guys we KNOW about. We had no idea Murray and Haskins would be possible 1st round picks this time last year, and there will undoubtedly be more QBs who rise up the draft ranks over the course of the 2019-20 CFB season. Now, instead, we still have absolutely zero pass rush... top-notch pass rushers are NOT easy to find and there's no way we're going to be able to compete in the NFCE without a pass rush the next few years.
Sorry, I know we're all supposed to be rah rah and optimistic now that the draft has been over for a couple months and Jones is making some nice throws wearing gym shorts. /rant over
.
Quote:
'80s: Mike Singletary
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis
Good list, I think DT and Rev Ray stand alone in their decades. Andre Tippett was great outside, I think as good as MS but different positions. I don’t think Willis was as good as Bobby Wagner or Keuchley in the 10s, but he was terrific. Was Willis even better than Bowmen?
Good call to whoever mentioned the Saints LBs, Pat Swilling could dominate a game.
Willis was the best MLB in the NFL from 2007-2010 undeniably, and perhaps still the best MLB the next 2 seasons. Bowman while he was an amazing player benefited from Vic Fangio moving Willis over to Takeo Spikes old spot and putting Bowman in Willis'.
Early Willis years, like Frank Gore were phenomenal, on a level better than what the national fans saw during the Harbaugh years. Willis two early highlights are chasing a WR down 60 yards to save a TD and an 86 yard pick 6 in Seattle.......this was a linebacker not a DB. Kuechly and Wagner while they are consistently excellent cannot do such things (and neither could Bowman).
Willis had zero weaknesses in his game. I would say that Kuechly is maybe a better fit in the very current NFL as he seems to have a better nose for pass defense (16 INTs career vs Willis 8, Wagner 9), but Wagner is a better run defender than Kuechly....and neither still as good against the run as Willis in his prime.
In the end, the typical fan will see Wagner/Kuechly as better than Willis because of longer careers and recency bias, much the same way Brady is seen as better than Montana even though it took Brady a good 4 or 5 more seasons to get his 4th ring.
Link - ( New Window )
#2. Brad Van Pelt
#3. Ray Nitschke
They’re are my guys too good call ......