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NOT counting LT, the best LB you ever saw?

Big Blue '56 : 6/15/2019 12:01 pm
Butkus.

And go.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/15/2019 12:04 pm : link
I originally wanted to say Mike Singletary, but in terms of overall combination of athleticism and big plays, Junior Seau.
Fiddy I was thinking Carson or Carl Banks at his peak  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/15/2019 12:06 pm : link
until I opened the thread and read your mention of Butkus.


You pretty much committed suicide to your own OP, with Butkus.
Never got to see Butkus or Ray Nitschke play. Wish I had.  
Klaatu : 6/15/2019 12:09 pm : link
I'll say Ray Lewis.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/15/2019 12:09 pm : link
As much as it pains me to say it, Ray Lewis. Of course he should be in jail right now...
I think heís a massive fraud, but  
Dave in PA : 6/15/2019 12:09 pm : link
Ray Lewis has to be up there
I agree with Ray Lewis  
Ira : 6/15/2019 12:12 pm : link
.
Derrick Thomas  
BSIMatt : 6/15/2019 12:14 pm : link
.
I guess I canít really say best...  
Chris in Philly : 6/15/2019 12:17 pm : link
but I loved the way Derrick Brooks player the position...
Played...  
Chris in Philly : 6/15/2019 12:18 pm : link
And for a couple of years it looked like Patrick Willis was going to be on his way...
I have a hard time picking between  
PatersonPlank : 6/15/2019 12:24 pm : link
Butkus, Lewis, Bobby Bell, and Derrick Brooks

I guess it comes down to do you like the proto-typical MLB or the OLB type
The saints  
GFiLA : 6/15/2019 12:26 pm : link
Linebackers rivaled the Giants during our hay day. They were fun to watch.
Butkus was the only LB besides LT  
TMS : 6/15/2019 12:29 pm : link
that was a true team leader who opponents planned for and actually feared.
RE: Butkus was the only LB besides LT  
Chris in Philly : 6/15/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14472742 TMS said:
Quote:
that was a true team leader who opponents planned for and actually feared.


I donít know about that, man...
Probably Ray Lewis...  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/15/2019 12:32 pm : link
...but Jesse Armstead is right up there.
Derrick Brooks  
Rong5611 : 6/15/2019 12:34 pm : link
.
RE: The saints  
Big Blue '56 : 6/15/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14472741 GFiLA said:
Quote:
Linebackers rivaled the Giants during our hay day. They were fun to watch.


Swilling rocked!
Ricky Jackson  
Greg from LI : 6/15/2019 12:52 pm : link
The 80s was a golden age of LBs
Butkus  
Chip : 6/15/2019 12:53 pm : link
Willie Lanier was good as well
...  
christian : 6/15/2019 12:54 pm : link
The most consistent oustide linebacker rushing the passer aside from LT I've seen was Derrick Thomas. He lived in the opponents backfield.

The best cover linebacker I've seen is unfortunately Ray Lewis. 2003 Ray Lewis was as productive at MIKE in coverage as a top tier corner.

Jessie Armstead  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 6/15/2019 12:56 pm : link
Flying all over the field with that knack for always being around the ball.
LT was obviously in a lague of his own.  
MOOPS : 6/15/2019 1:20 pm : link
I'll add Jack Ham to the list of second best.
By decade  
NINEster : 6/15/2019 1:31 pm : link
'80s: Mike Singletary
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis
Ray Lewis  
Chris684 : 6/15/2019 1:34 pm : link
Derrick Brooks
Jack freaking  
XBRONX : 6/15/2019 1:35 pm : link
Lambert.
Yup  
Professor Falken : 6/15/2019 1:41 pm : link
Jack Lambert.
Lambert - ( New Window )
When considering their ability in each facet  
GoDeep13 : 6/15/2019 1:47 pm : link
Iíd have to say Derrick Brooks. Insane speed. Could cover, chase you down back side, shoot a gap for a TFL or Sack, Leader both in and off the field. Donít think you build them more complete than Brooks.
RE: Butkus was the only LB besides LT  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/15/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14472742 TMS said:
Quote:
that was a true team leader who opponents planned for and actually feared.

If you ever had an accurate thought, it would die of loneliness.
Derrick Thomas  
rdt288 : 6/15/2019 1:49 pm : link
-
Ray Lewis  
giantsFC : 6/15/2019 2:04 pm : link
I like the saints LBís shout out too
LT and Brad Van Pelt!  
SterlingArcher : 6/15/2019 2:12 pm : link
.
Lambert and Russell  
Jimmy Googs : 6/15/2019 2:17 pm : link
and Singletary
RE: Ricky Jackson  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/15/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14472755 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The 80s was a golden age of LBs


Good call.

And somehow Ray Lewis escaped my mind.
Hate to say it  
fanofthejets : 6/15/2019 2:48 pm : link
This guy



Jack Lambert is a close 3rd

From my father's period  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 6/15/2019 2:49 pm : link
Butkus was the elite, but the Chiefs LBs of Willie Lanier and Bobby Bell were really really good.

I know people will knock this, but DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller are closer to LT impact than some current HOFers.

Lewis and Seau are close to Butkus level, but from college I've always felt Brooks was a better all-around LB than Lewis.
Derrick Thomas  
section125 : 6/15/2019 3:12 pm : link
rivaled LT in many ways. I'd say closest thing to LT.
I'm sure these guys were all mentioned  
pjcas18 : 6/15/2019 3:20 pm : link
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.

Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.

but none of these guys are really close to LT.
Lambert with 2-3 mentions vs only one for Willie Lanier?  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/15/2019 3:22 pm : link
That's out of whack, so I'm gonna chip in a 2nd nomination for Lanier. That trio, too of Lanier, Bell & Lynch was awesome.
lewis and brooks  
GiantsFan84 : 6/15/2019 3:26 pm : link
are a tie for me. those two guys ALWAYS made the big play too. it was uncanny
RE: Lambert with 2-3 mentions vs only one for Willie Lanier?  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/15/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14472844 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
That's out of whack, so I'm gonna chip in a 2nd nomination for Lanier. That trio, too of Lanier, Bell & Lynch was awesome.


Make that the 3rd mention of Lanier and Bell both!

DeMarcus Ware was a beast through his first what 6-7 seasons? But then slowed down or fell off quite a bit.
The craziest thing about this thread  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/15/2019 3:30 pm : link
and all the great LBs mentioned,

is that NO ONE really came CLOSE to LT.

At his peak he was like Thor came from his realm of G-ds to play football among earthlings.
Willie Lanier  
pjcas18 : 6/15/2019 3:32 pm : link
retired in 1977, I'm guessing a good portion of the site never saw him in him prime. Like Butkus, Lambert, Ham, etc.
I don't know how many steroids he was doing  
MM_in_NYC : 6/15/2019 3:34 pm : link
but Zach Thomas best run stuffing LB i've seen.
Butkis.  
redwhiteandbigblue : 6/15/2019 3:38 pm : link
Tommy Nobis was excellent as well.
Derrick Thomas  
dune69 : 6/15/2019 3:42 pm : link
but who can argue with:

Butkus
Lewis
Hendricks
Lambert
Seau
Nitsche
Bednarik
Harry (I loved Harry)
Bell

Lots of very good linebackers
RE: Butkis.  
fanofthejets : 6/15/2019 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14472860 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
Tommy Nobis was excellent as well.


Nobis was a tackling machine. Was a good-sometimes very good player but never great. Despite a good career he underachieved a bit with how hyped he was coming out of Texas as the first pick overall in the NFL draft (went 5th in the AFL draft)
Hey what  
Jerry from Maine : 6/15/2019 4:01 pm : link
about Bill George of the Bears.. dude was a badass, and as huge Sam Huff fan growing up Bill was better.
RE: Hey what  
Big Blue '56 : 6/15/2019 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14472879 Jerry from Maine said:
Quote:
about Bill George of the Bears.. dude was a badass, and as huge Sam Huff fan growing up Bill was better.


Joe Schmidt. Bednarik.
I am actually surprised no one has said keuchly  
bhill410 : 6/15/2019 4:23 pm : link
Itís in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 so he doesnít get the glamor stats but i am not sure I have seen a better pure linebacker. If you are going to count the olb in a 3-4 (who are really edge rushers in my mind) von Miller in recent years has been something else.
RE: I am actually surprised no one has said keuchly  
pjcas18 : 6/15/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14472888 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Itís in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 so he doesnít get the glamor stats but i am not sure I have seen a better pure linebacker. If you are going to count the olb in a 3-4 (who are really edge rushers in my mind) von Miller in recent years has been something else.


Don't be surprised. Someone said him.

Quote:
I'm sure these guys were all mentioned
pjcas18 : 3:20 pm : link : reply
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.

Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.

but none of these guys are really close to LT.
Lewis is a HOF LB  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/15/2019 4:31 pm : link
But If its possible to be thAt good and over rated heís both.

Never saw Butkus but Jack Lambert is up there for me. Derrick Thomas also. Some guys are great and in the right scheme. Some guys transcend scheme.

If Keuchley can stop having concussion issues hes moving up the
List. Dude is amazing.
Butkus.  
Giant John : 6/15/2019 4:53 pm : link
By a lot.
Antonio Pierce  
.McL. : 6/15/2019 5:04 pm : link
For one play in the frozen tundra of Green Bay.
Butkus for sure ....  
Spider56 : 6/15/2019 6:33 pm : link
But letís not forget our own Sam Huff ... ah ... the glory days of the legal clothesline ... when men were men and football was football.
RE: RE: Lambert with 2-3 mentions vs only one for Willie Lanier?  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 6/15/2019 6:48 pm : link
In comment 14472849 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14472844 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


That's out of whack, so I'm gonna chip in a 2nd nomination for Lanier. That trio, too of Lanier, Bell & Lynch was awesome.



Make that the 3rd mention of Lanier and Bell both!

DeMarcus Ware was a beast through his first what 6-7 seasons? But then slowed down or fell off quite a bit.


I think that Chiefs trio flies under the radar because of the old AFL. Didn't know Jim Lynch was in the College HOF.
RE: By decade  
trueblueinpw : 6/15/2019 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14472774 NINEster said:
Quote:
'80s: Mike Singletary
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis


Good list, I think DT and Rev Ray stand alone in their decades. Andre Tippett was great outside, I think as good as MS but different positions. I donít think Willis was as good as Bobby Wagner or Keuchley in the 10s, but he was terrific. Was Willis even better than Bowmen?

Good call to whoever mentioned the Saints LBs, Pat Swilling could dominate a game.
Derrick Thomas  
Allen in CNJ : 6/15/2019 7:32 pm : link
and it's not even close.

After him I'd say Singletary, Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Von Miller, Pat Swilling, and maybe even Karl Mecklenburg.
forgot  
Allen in CNJ : 6/15/2019 7:33 pm : link
Harry and Junior Seau also.. Carl Banks too
Derrick Thomas is not 2nd  
KWALL2 : 6/15/2019 8:10 pm : link
He had a great speed rush. And that ends any comparison to LT (and others).

He didnít have the all around game and make plays all over the field. He was a pass rush specialist.
Ray Lewis was amazing in his prime... he was #2, imo  
Matt G : 6/15/2019 8:17 pm : link
But I loved watching Junior Seau, Kevin Greene, Jessie Armstead and ...


Greg Lloyd - ( New Window )
Gil Brandtís best ever:  
Big Blue '56 : 6/15/2019 8:26 pm : link
.
oops  
Big Blue '56 : 6/15/2019 8:26 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
He has one of my favorite LBs  
Big Blue '56 : 6/15/2019 8:28 pm : link
of all time, the Packersí Dave Robinson at #15
Off the top of my head  
FStubbs : 6/15/2019 8:29 pm : link
Kevin Greene
Wilbur Marshall
Junior Seau

They could do it all and they were constant relentless forces.

By the time I started really watching Carson was in decline - I have more fond memories of Banks and Armstead.
I would ask Jim Brown  
yalebowl : 6/15/2019 9:07 pm : link
#1. Sam Huff
#2. Brad Van Pelt
#3. Ray Nitschke
RE: Lewis is a HOF LB  
gmenatlarge : 6/15/2019 9:25 pm : link
In comment 14472892 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
But If its possible to be thAt good and over rated heís both.

Never saw Butkus but Jack Lambert is up there for me. Derrick Thomas also. Some guys are great and in the right scheme. Some guys transcend scheme.

If Keuchley can stop having concussion issues hes moving up the
List. Dude is amazing.


Iím no Ray Lewis fan, but I donít know how you could say he is overrated when he was the centerpiece for one of the best defenses ever.
One of NJís own:  
flycatcher : 6/15/2019 9:27 pm : link
Phil Villapiano
Josh Allen  
NephilimGiants : 6/15/2019 9:35 pm : link
Still would of preferred him over Daniel Jones. Josh Allen, Lawerence and Baker would been huge
54  
Blueblue : 6/15/2019 10:48 pm : link
Suprised nobody has mentioned Urlacher.
RE: Derrick Thomas  
barens : 6/15/2019 11:05 pm : link
In comment 14472728 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
.


This, he doesnít get the publicity as some of the previously aforementioned, but like LT, he really put the fear of god into opposing QBís. He had the quickest first step of any player at that position I had ever seen, including LT.

If he were able to finish his career, heíd probably be the all time sack leader.
RE: 54  
pjcas18 : 6/15/2019 11:07 pm : link
In comment 14473265 Blueblue said:
Quote:
Suprised nobody has mentioned Urlacher.


Don't be so surprised.

Quote:
I'm sure these guys were all mentioned
pjcas18 : 3:20 pm : link : reply
but I'll say Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Zach Thomas, Luke Kuechly is already there for me.

Steelers fans will say Jack Lambert (before Greg Lloyd or Joey Porter), but I didn't really see Lambert in his prime or Butkus at all.

but none of these guys are really close to LT.
When I was in grade school...  
Milton : 6/15/2019 11:24 pm : link
Dick Butkus was my favorite non-Giants player.

But the guy who belongs in the discussion as much as Butkus is Seth Joyner, although it doesn't surprise me that I'm the first to mention him. He's always been under appreciated, even in his day, because of the great Eagles DL that played in front of him.

In my mind there hasn't been a better 4-3 SAM-backer in the league since Joyner. He could stop the run, rush the passer, and cover too. He was a complete LB, the prototype at SAM.
LaVar Arrington (in college)  
ImThatGuy : 6/15/2019 11:25 pm : link
Dude was a beast in college - not the NFL career I thought he would have. But he was the best collegiate LB I've seen play

(I know not the original question just adding .02)
Don't forget the Mad Stork  
JohnF : 6/15/2019 11:28 pm : link


Ted "Mad Stork" Hendricks:

4 Super Bowls, played 15 seasons, 26 interceptions, 25 blocked FG/PAT's, 4 safeties, 8 Pro Bowls.

When L.T. first came up, they were comparing him to Hendricks! That's how good Ted was.

Here's another great article from the S.I. Vault
WHO IS THIS MAD HATTER?
Urlacher? Urlacher was, at best, the 3rd best LB for the Bears  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/15/2019 11:41 pm : link
after Butkus and Singletary. How's he jumping over them to #2 after LT?
Two youtube videos about Ted Hendricks  
JohnF : 6/15/2019 11:45 pm : link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVd3K3s7pRs

Howie Long Narrates. Long called LT the best he ever saw, but said Hendricks was right up there with LT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrU45Vl6jbw

Lyle Alzado is on this video, and is calling Ted "out there" and "strange". If Alzado called you "strange", wow!
Von Miller  
John In CO : 6/16/2019 12:06 am : link
absolutely has to be on the list of nominees for this honor!
I'm young  
NYFootballGiants : 6/16/2019 1:56 am : link
but from this era, Patrick Willis. He was dominant for his entire career. I wish I could have seen better Linebackers on our squad growing up. I know Sam Huff and Jesse Armstead were both total badasses, along with all the guys we had in the 80's. Seems like we're trying to get back to making LB a priority under Gettleman which I'm very glad about.
If Limited to Players I Saw  
Jeffrey : 6/16/2019 8:45 am : link
Lewis, Singletary and Urlacher, with Urlacher being the most consistent of the three.
RE: LaVar Arrington (in college)  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 6/16/2019 8:45 am : link
In comment 14473306 ImThatGuy said:
Quote:
Dude was a beast in college - not the NFL career I thought he would have. But he was the best collegiate LB I've seen play

(I know not the original question just adding .02)


Arrington was a beast in college. Never forgot a play where tackled a RB with one arm and at the same time celebrated with the other.
RE: Derrick Thomas is not 2nd  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/16/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14473030 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He had a great speed rush. And that ends any comparison to LT (and others).

He didnít have the all around game and make plays all over the field. He was a pass rush specialist.


100%. I cringe when people place DT so high on lists like this. He was extremely one dimensional. Pure outside speed based edge rusher who relied on Arrowheads homefield advantage to beat opposing OLineman at the snap. Check out his Home/Road splits when it comes to Sacks. Do people forget how the Bills forced the Chiefs to bench DT in a playoff game because they kept running it at him?

Ware, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack are all more complete players than DT was. Miller is even comparable off the edge while being better at everything else.

Eric great choice with Seau, I think he is one of the most underrated players of the last 30 years. He was an amazing do it all linebacker and probably better than Lewis/Brooks from a pure talent perspective. Iíve always been a huge Brooks fan though, just perfect at his role.
Jack Ham  
jacob12 : 6/16/2019 2:25 pm : link
LT is the best defensive player I have ever seen. Taylor was a singular talent and a genetic freak.

Most people are grossly underrating Jack Ham. He was fast, quick, and was a great tackler. Ham had very large hands, and he was an exceptional cover LB. Jack is third in NFL history with 32 interceptions. He could catch a football behind his back with one hand.

Carl Banks said that if Pro Football Focus used analytics to rank linebackers, Ham would be the best LB in NFL history. Jack may not be LT, but he was an extraordinary LB.

Osi  
KWALL2 : 6/16/2019 2:28 pm : link
You donít take the 2nd best LB off the field ever. Especially in a playoff game.

Thomas wasnít close to #2. All of the guys you listed were much better LBs(and many more were too).
I loved Pat Swilling...  
bw in dc : 6/16/2019 2:54 pm : link
A terrific all-around LB.

Special shout out, too, to Kevin Greene. I think he was a better all-around player than Thomas.

Tippett  
KWALL2 : 6/16/2019 3:51 pm : link
At his peak, he was as good as anybody. Great pass rusher and all around game. A powerful beast like LT. Dominated vs run and pass.

#2 to LT? Tippett Iím he mid 80s.
Derrick Brooks  
crick n NC : 6/16/2019 4:39 pm : link
Seems to get looked over. Derrick Brooks>Derrick Thomas imo.
How does JJ Watt compare?  
Shockwave : 6/16/2019 5:29 pm : link
Pre injury he was making gaming changing plays weekly for a year or two. And It wasnít just your regular run of the mill type plays either.

LT held up for longer, but what JJ did for a few years had to be close to LT I imagine?
I don't know about the best  
Matt M. : 6/16/2019 10:45 pm : link
but I haven't enjoyed watching any other LB more than Armstead.

The Giants of the 80s overshadowed another outstanding LB corps because of LT. The Saints, with Swilling, Jackson, and Mills were excellent.
not counting LT...  
Leg of Theismann : 6/17/2019 12:03 am : link
I would say that LT was the best LB in history.

LT is like Chuck Norris... even when excluded from the conversation he's still the greatest player in history.
RE: Josh Allen  
Leg of Theismann : 6/17/2019 12:19 am : link
In comment 14473168 NephilimGiants said:
Quote:
Still would of preferred him over Daniel Jones. Josh Allen, Lawerence and Baker would been huge


+1

That really could have fixed the defense (or gone a long way toward doing so) for a long time. All 3 would have been a perfect fit for Bettcher's defense, and especially Allen who would have been the ideal " 'tweener" that could play the jack/joker in Bettcher's 3-4. I personally believe Allen will go on to have a better career than Bosa. He was one of the top 3 players in the draft (in a deep draft for EDGE rushers and defense in general) and the reason he fell was in part due to the fact that he was a bit of a 'tweener... but he was the exact 'tweener we needed for Bettcher's D. I would have loved to see them get all the pieces in place to make a run and THEN get the QB in a 2020 draft that is going to undoubtedly be deep at QB. Regardless of where we were picking in the 2020 draft we were likely going to have a shot at an NFL-ready top prospect QB. Tua, Herbert, Fromm, Eason... and those are just the guys we KNOW about. We had no idea Murray and Haskins would be possible 1st round picks this time last year, and there will undoubtedly be more QBs who rise up the draft ranks over the course of the 2019-20 CFB season. Now, instead, we still have absolutely zero pass rush... top-notch pass rushers are NOT easy to find and there's no way we're going to be able to compete in the NFCE without a pass rush the next few years.

Sorry, I know we're all supposed to be rah rah and optimistic now that the draft has been over for a couple months and Jones is making some nice throws wearing gym shorts. /rant over
Harry Carson  
WideRight : 6/17/2019 8:49 am : link

.
RE: RE: By decade  
NINEster : 6/17/2019 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14472962 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 14472774 NINEster said:


Quote:


'80s: Mike Singletary
'90s: Derrick Thomas
'00s: Ray Lewis
'10s: Patrick Willis



Good list, I think DT and Rev Ray stand alone in their decades. Andre Tippett was great outside, I think as good as MS but different positions. I donít think Willis was as good as Bobby Wagner or Keuchley in the 10s, but he was terrific. Was Willis even better than Bowmen?

Good call to whoever mentioned the Saints LBs, Pat Swilling could dominate a game.


Willis was the best MLB in the NFL from 2007-2010 undeniably, and perhaps still the best MLB the next 2 seasons. Bowman while he was an amazing player benefited from Vic Fangio moving Willis over to Takeo Spikes old spot and putting Bowman in Willis'.

Early Willis years, like Frank Gore were phenomenal, on a level better than what the national fans saw during the Harbaugh years. Willis two early highlights are chasing a WR down 60 yards to save a TD and an 86 yard pick 6 in Seattle.......this was a linebacker not a DB. Kuechly and Wagner while they are consistently excellent cannot do such things (and neither could Bowman).

Willis had zero weaknesses in his game. I would say that Kuechly is maybe a better fit in the very current NFL as he seems to have a better nose for pass defense (16 INTs career vs Willis 8, Wagner 9), but Wagner is a better run defender than Kuechly....and neither still as good against the run as Willis in his prime.

In the end, the typical fan will see Wagner/Kuechly as better than Willis because of longer careers and recency bias, much the same way Brady is seen as better than Montana even though it took Brady a good 4 or 5 more seasons to get his 4th ring.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: I would ask Jim Brown  
NikkiMac : 6/18/2019 7:26 am : link
In comment 14473131 yalebowl said:
Quote:
#1. Sam Huff
#2. Brad Van Pelt
#3. Ray Nitschke


Theyíre are my guys too good call ......
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