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My favorite position battle this year is WR...

BlueLou'sBack : 6/16/2019 2:40 pm
A) We haven't a clue yet who the 3rd WR on the field will be as a starter, let alone the 4th for 4 WR sets.

B) The only roster locks are Sterling Shepard, Golden Tate, and I assume Darius Slayton as 5th round draft picks usually get "scholarship" roster slots, at least, and anyway he's been singled out by PS as "most improved" rookie from 1st rookie mini-camp to the end of the OTAs. Obviously Slayton's raw athleticism is high upper tier, speed, hops, quickness, very solid size, arm length, and huge hands.

C) From the rest - not even addressing the UDFA long shots whose best shot is on the PS - Lattimer seems to have played the most 1st team reps, Coleman has a rare killer speed factor and was a very good KR guy last year and seems to relish STs in general (he's desperate to stick, clearly), and Fowler has been reported to be the best player among them so far, in shorts, whether that's 2nd team reps or otherwise.

That leaves Russel Shepard - a team leader and valuable gunner and STs guy - on the bubble. Some folks call him a "DG guy" in terms of roster presence and character. I'm just not sure that's enough this year for him to grab a slot among 6 WRs, let alone if they keep only 5.

Guys are battling for their livelihoods here, for sure. Should be a fun watch from the sidelines.

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Physicality is going to be a key IMO  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/16/2019 4:04 pm : link
I think that's why they like Tate. I think they want guys who will mix it up in the running game. This is going to be a Barkley-centric offense.

Slayton if he pans out can keep defenses honest in the deep game. The rest of these guys are going to be players that can be moved around, get yards after the catch, and stick their nose in the running game IMO.
RE: That might  
christian : 6/16/2019 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14473679 XBRONX said:
Quote:
be the pattern or route he is assigned to run.


Bingo. Tate is a high target, low YPC, dump-off WR.
WR isn't as interesting as DB because there's a baseline  
Eric on Li : 6/16/2019 4:11 pm : link
Shepard and Tate will be reliable targets between 65-90 catches, each probably just under 1k yards. Maybe someone (Coleman or Slayton) surprises as the 3rd WR and hits some big plays, or maybe either is inactive on game days. None of our WR's are going to the probably.

The DB's on the other hand are a complete unknown. We have no idea what Beal, Love, Baker, and Peppers are going to be. 1 or 2 of those guys could end up in the pro bowl. Or none of them could go. But what was possibly the weakest unit on the team has added enough upside that it could flip to being the best unit on the team with a little luck.
RE: Christian  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/16/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14473662 XBRONX said:
Quote:
by the way, Tate is number one WR this year. Your man Shepard does nothing after the catch.


Reports/summaries from the OTAs were that Sterling Shepard was hands down the Giants' best WR during the Spring. He's a good candidate for the breakout player of the year on offense for the Giants with OBJ gone. I really doubt he'll play 2nd fiddle to Golden Tate.
S. Shepard  
AcidTest : 6/16/2019 4:17 pm : link
and Tate are the only reliable proven WRs. The rest are journeyman veterans or rookies. My guess right now is S. Shepard, Tate, Coleman, Slayton, and one of Latimer, Fowler, or R. Shepard. With Engram and Barkley, I don't see the need to carry six WRs.
RE: WR isn't as interesting as DB because there's a baseline  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/16/2019 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14473687 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Shepard and Tate will be reliable targets between 65-90 catches, each probably just under 1k yards. Maybe someone (Coleman or Slayton) surprises as the 3rd WR and hits some big plays, or maybe either is inactive on game days. None of our WR's are going to the probably.

The DB's on the other hand are a complete unknown. We have no idea what Beal, Love, Baker, and Peppers are going to be. 1 or 2 of those guys could end up in the pro bowl. Or none of them could go. But what was possibly the weakest unit on the team has added enough upside that it could flip to being the best unit on the team with a little luck.


Who will play what role among the CBs perhaps is more interesting, but 3/4 of the base 4 DBs are set: both safeties and Jenkins at 1 CB spot. And I think the WHO will make the roster question at DB is more easily answered barring injuries all 6 CBs - Jenkins, Baker, Beal, Love, Haley and Ballentine will make the roster.

3 safeties (Bethea, Peppers, and Thomas) and 6 CBs are clearly poised to make the 53, with only the 4th safety's ID in question. At WR, after Shepard, Tate, and almost 100% Slayton, it's all ????? IMO.
RE: I think Tate is one of those  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 6/16/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14473670 section125 said:
Quote:
guys that will play well until 35 years old. Just a total competitor with talent.

Reminds me a lot of Steve Smith.
RE: RE: WR isn't as interesting as DB because there's a baseline  
Eric on Li : 6/16/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14473696 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:

Who will play what role among the CBs perhaps is more interesting, but 3/4 of the base 4 DBs are set: both safeties and Jenkins at 1 CB spot. And I think the WHO will make the roster question at DB is more easily answered barring injuries all 6 CBs - Jenkins, Baker, Beal, Love, Haley and Ballentine will make the roster.

3 safeties (Bethea, Peppers, and Thomas) and 6 CBs are clearly poised to make the 53, with only the 4th safety's ID in question. At WR, after Shepard, Tate, and almost 100% Slayton, it's all ????? IMO.


Shepard and Tate (and Engram if we're counting him) are going to have the majority of catches though barring injury, so the position is pretty settled. Latimer, Coleman, and Slayton are the most talented reserves, if we get lucky 1 of them steps up to be a real big play threat but more than likely ST will be a big factor in who sticks.

The DB's are more up in the air IMO. The nickel spot is up for grabs, the boundary CB opposite Jenkins is up for grabs. Our starting FS is a new addition. A lot of unknowns in a good way.
Who is going to be the X receiver?  
Vanzetti : 6/16/2019 4:56 pm : link
Tate and Shep are really both slot receivers. One will play the Z. But who do the Giants have that can get off the LOS with a CB right on him? Coleman cant get off the LOS. That's one of the reasons he was a bust, along with bad hands and an inability to come down with the ball in traffic.

Slayton has the size and speed. But is this the case of everyone projecting on to him X talent simply because the team has such a need for it?

I like Slayton. But size/speed guys who last to the 5th round--there is usually a reason.
Engram is going to be a big part of the O  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/16/2019 4:56 pm : link
I expect(if healthy) to catch 60-70 balls. They need him badly.
RE: Who is going to be the X receiver?  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/16/2019 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14473721 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Tate and Shep are really both slot receivers. One will play the Z. But who do the Giants have that can get off the LOS with a CB right on him? Coleman cant get off the LOS. That's one of the reasons he was a bust, along with bad hands and an inability to come down with the ball in traffic.

Slayton has the size and speed. But is this the case of everyone projecting on to him X talent simply because the team has such a need for it?

I like Slayton. But size/speed guys who last to the 5th round--there is usually a reason.


Both Shephard and especially Tate can get off the line of scrimmage. That is what makes this paring so interesting is that they can both line up at x,y, and z.
...  
christian : 6/16/2019 5:20 pm : link
Zeke -- what do you mean by "get off the line of scrimmage?"
RE: ...  
BSIMatt : 6/16/2019 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14473659 christian said:
Quote:
A receiver who can stretch the field just adequately has an opportunity to be the 2nd receiver on this team.

I get the desire to be optimistic about Tate, but just a cursory glance at his numbers, and you see a guy who's been a high target, high YAC, but pretty low YPR compiler, for a while.

Maybe he eats into Barkley's targets, that would be fine, Barkley isn't the most productive place to put 120 targets.


I know that one of the areas that Shula said they really wanted to expand and work on with Barkley was as a receiver. The line was so bad last year that it was hard for Barkley to be much more than a checkdown and while Barkely as a checkdown is still a scary proposition for some defenses, getting him downfield a bit more and in space is even scarier imo. There is more upside there with Barkley, hoping improved oline play can let the Giants show more of what they have in him as a player(ala Faulk, or what New Orleans has been doing with Kamara)
...  
christian : 6/16/2019 5:31 pm : link
BSIMatt - I completely agree. 720 yards on 120 targets is highly inefficient.

I'd like to see a combination of fewer targets to Barkley overall, and when he is targeted it be deeper downfield.

I expect the pass-pro to round into shape and Manning to have time to let things develop. Hopefully the Giants are throwing the ball in the air downfield and not 4 yard dumpoffs to Tate.
I don't think it's going to be much of a conventional 1,2,3 guy  
Motley Two : 6/16/2019 5:37 pm : link
type of scenario. I think there will be plenty of opportunities for lots of guys leading to more organic results like we saw with Nicks, Cruz & Manningham

I think any number of these guys can rise to the occasion with the roster as it stands. Eli has paid the price over the years at times, but he has never been shy about giving a WR a chance to go make a play.
Agree completely  
BSIMatt : 6/16/2019 5:38 pm : link
He'll be harder to defend further downfield, he'll have less defenders to swarm him which is what defenses preach when they play him, swarm the ball, 11 to the ball.
RE: RE: Who is going to be the X receiver?  
81_Great_Dane : 6/16/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14473733 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14473721 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Tate and Shep are really both slot receivers. One will play the Z. But who do the Giants have that can get off the LOS with a CB right on him? Coleman cant get off the LOS. That's one of the reasons he was a bust, along with bad hands and an inability to come down with the ball in traffic.

Slayton has the size and speed. But is this the case of everyone projecting on to him X talent simply because the team has such a need for it?

I like Slayton. But size/speed guys who last to the 5th round--there is usually a reason.



Both Shephard and especially Tate can get off the line of scrimmage. That is what makes this paring so interesting is that they can both line up at x,y, and z.
I had to look this up: As I understand it, the "Y" is the tight end. The X is the split end, the Y is the tight end, the Z is the flanker. The X-Y-Z nomenclature doesn't really seem to have a label for the slot receiver.
I was disappointed  
Jay on the Island : 6/16/2019 7:52 pm : link
that Alex Wesley has missed so much time early on. He was my favorite UDFA WR signing this year and I was hoping that he could make a strong case to make the roster.

It's great to read about the performance and progress of Darius Slayton. After the rookie minicamp he was struggling with drops but the fact that he has already earned time with the starters is a very encouraging sign.
Engram is going to have to step up huge  
Leg of Theismann : 6/17/2019 12:25 am : link
He'll be in his 3rd year and that is usually the year a player makes big strides. People seem to forget that he had an outstanding rookie season and really was only held back last year by the fact that he was injured. Hopefully Shurmur can find the right way to use him to maximize his capabilities.
Can't believe anyone on here  
Leg of Theismann : 6/17/2019 12:29 am : link
is talking about the possibility of Slayton being cut. He's been very impressive so far, is only a rookie, and was picked by the current regime. We need speed at WR on this team, they're going to find a way to keep him, even if just for the fact that he has great potential with his combination of size/speed.
RE: I don't think it's going to be much of a conventional 1,2,3 guy  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/17/2019 1:00 am : link
In comment 14473756 Motley Two said:
Quote:
type of scenario. I think there will be plenty of opportunities for lots of guys leading to more organic results like we saw with Nicks, Cruz & Manningham

I think any number of these guys can rise to the occasion with the roster as it stands. Eli has paid the price over the years at times, but he has never been shy about giving a WR a chance to go make a play.


The Nicks, Cruz and Manningham trio is IMO a terrible example of an "organic" trio by design. Clearly Nicks was the #1 X and Cruz the #2 Z or Y depending on the formation. Manningham was definitely the 3rd guy in, too, except when either Nicks or Cruz were injured. Cruz worked great out of the slot, so ran most of his routes from the slot in 3 WR sets. They were only "organic' in resppnse to injuries or maybe once in a while match ups targeting specific opponent DBs.

Otherwise, I agree with the ideas expressed in your post about what they would like to do with the current group - particularly with the pair of Shepard and Tate. And I am not sure but the #3 WR could be 'organic' from week to week, with any WR on the roster locking the spot down for a week or three if they deliver the goods.
RE: Can't believe anyone on here  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/17/2019 1:02 am : link
In comment 14473951 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
is talking about the possibility of Slayton being cut. He's been very impressive so far, is only a rookie, and was picked by the current regime. We need speed at WR on this team, they're going to find a way to keep him, even if just for the fact that he has great potential with his combination of size/speed.


Yeah, in all likelihood Darius Slayton is not gonna get cut. If they see regression and don't believe he's ready to play 2019, he'll find a way onto the IR list.
Slayton is going to make the team.  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 8:09 am : link
Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves, and I say that as someone who wasn't crazy about the pick, and has been on his case since rookie camp. He's a lock. Book it.

Last year the Giants kept seven WR's on the roster, but they skimped on RB's. This year I figure they'll keep six WR's and carry one more RB than they did last year. Special teams will no doubt be one of the deciding factors.

Slayton, Tate, and Shepard make three. Of the remaining eight, I'd pencil in Corey Coleman. It's hard to believe that a guy who's still only 24 can be considered a reclamation project, but that's essentially what Coleman is. He did do a nice job returning kicks last year, and my guess is the Giants want to see what he can do with their full offseason program under his belt. They don't have anything to lose by giving a young guy with his skills a fair shot.

On the other hand, I don't know why they kept Cody Latimer around. He's the poster boy for underachieving WR's, and at 27 are the Giants expecting a miraculous turnaround from him? Maybe they are, but I wouldn't. The beats seem to love him, though, so I'll pencil him in, too, even though I'd rather not.

I figure the last spot will go to either Russell Shepard (28), Bennie Fowler (28), or Alonzo Russell (27), whomever is the best special teams player.

My dark horse WR, Reggie White, Jr. (23) - is most likely destined for the PS. Maybe Alex Wesley (24), too. I think Brittan Golden (30) is history.
RE: RE: I don't think it's going to be much of a conventional 1,2,3 guy  
Motley Two : 6/17/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14473953 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14473756 Motley Two said:


Quote:


type of scenario. I think there will be plenty of opportunities for lots of guys leading to more organic results like we saw with Nicks, Cruz & Manningham

I think any number of these guys can rise to the occasion with the roster as it stands. Eli has paid the price over the years at times, but he has never been shy about giving a WR a chance to go make a play.



The Nicks, Cruz and Manningham trio is IMO a terrible example of an "organic" trio by design. Clearly Nicks was the #1 X and Cruz the #2 Z or Y depending on the formation. Manningham was definitely the 3rd guy in, too, except when either Nicks or Cruz were injured. Cruz worked great out of the slot, so ran most of his routes from the slot in 3 WR sets. They were only "organic' in resppnse to injuries or maybe once in a while match ups targeting specific opponent DBs.

Otherwise, I agree with the ideas expressed in your post about what they would like to do with the current group - particularly with the pair of Shepard and Tate. And I am not sure but the #3 WR could be 'organic' from week to week, with any WR on the roster locking the spot down for a week or three if they deliver the goods.


I was talking about the process of how they became 1,2,3
None of them were penciled in as anything when they first joined the roster. Nicks draft position was the only thing that created an expectation. Cruz wasn't even a starter.
Realistically, no matter what is stated by management  
Bob in Newburgh : 6/17/2019 10:04 am : link
Barring injuries decimating receiving corps, Reggie White has no chance of making roster. He is looking to get noticed enough for extended roster (PS).

I expect that Engram will be on the field for early downs as a receiver. Whatever you label him is going to be an exercise in semantics. On passing downs, he will be labeled TE. Where he actually lines up, may be something else.

For bottom of group, no telling yet whether true receiver ability, or other things, are given premiums.



Klaatu...I think its a lock they go 6 WRs and 4 RBs  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/17/2019 10:04 am : link
The whole point is to build the most talented roster and RB/CB are the two positions we seem to be rich in now.

Saquon's ability to play wr also factors in a little bit. If we get decimated by injuries to the WR corps we can split him out wide and bring in whatever RB we want. Perkins for his pass catching ability, Gallman for his versatility, and I believe Rod Smith is a good pass protector.
Evan Engram is not a WR.  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 10:47 am : link
He's the quintessential "move" TE and he should be used like one.
Zeke's Alibi  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 10:58 am : link
Similar to the discussion in Eric's Positional Breakdown thread, I think the number of RB's they keep boils down to whether or not they keep a true FB like Penny. If they do, then one of Gallman, Perkins, or Smith is going to get cut (and maybe two). Hillman is destined for the PS at best.

They'll probably keep at least one WR on the PS. Should they lose a WR, I figure they can activate a PS guy or look to sign a free agent. They did both last year. I don't see them using Barkley to make up for an injured WR.
Will be a lot of defenders playing up tight  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2019 10:58 am : link
against this offense.

Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...
RE: Will be a lot of defenders playing up tight  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14474164 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
against this offense.

Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...


Seems like the plan begins with better blocking up front to lessen the number or 2nd and Longs, 3rd and Longs...and for better pass-protection when the Giants want (or need) to throw.

The Tate signing notwithstanding (because, honestly, I'm still baffled by it), it also seems like the plan includes more speed at WR...drafting Slayton, keeping Coleman around (and Latimer, too, I suppose). Hell, even Reggie White, Jr. ran a sub-4.5 at his Pro Day.
Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
Brown Recluse : 6/17/2019 11:33 am : link
in college.

I really don't expect much of anything from him this year.
RE: RE: Will be a lot of defenders playing up tight  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14474208 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14474164 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


against this offense.

Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...



Seems like the plan begins with better blocking up front to lessen the number or 2nd and Longs, 3rd and Longs...and for better pass-protection when the Giants want (or need) to throw.

The Tate signing notwithstanding (because, honestly, I'm still baffled by it), it also seems like the plan includes more speed at WR...drafting Slayton, keeping Coleman around (and Latimer, too, I suppose). Hell, even Reggie White, Jr. ran a sub-4.5 at his Pro Day.


Yep, I don't disagree that plan should be around better blocking up front. However, if defenses feel they don't have to cover
Hit send by accident  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2019 11:52 am : link
if Defenses feel there is low risk to bringing guys up or playing on their toes because Offense isn't a credible threat to stretch them, then the Oline is going to simply be outnumbered, resulting in quick pressure.

Further, defenders will be ready for the hot read or flooding the lanes on throws.

we shall see...
RE: RE: RE: Will be a lot of defenders playing up tight  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14474240 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14474208 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14474164 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


against this offense.

Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...



Seems like the plan begins with better blocking up front to lessen the number or 2nd and Longs, 3rd and Longs...and for better pass-protection when the Giants want (or need) to throw.

The Tate signing notwithstanding (because, honestly, I'm still baffled by it), it also seems like the plan includes more speed at WR...drafting Slayton, keeping Coleman around (and Latimer, too, I suppose). Hell, even Reggie White, Jr. ran a sub-4.5 at his Pro Day.



Yep, I don't disagree that plan should be around better blocking up front. However, if defenses feel they don't have to cover


Then, to borrow from Emperor Palpatine, the Giants have to make them pay a price for their lack of vision.

Otherwise we're in for some very long Sundays.
RE: Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/17/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14474214 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
in college.

I really don't expect much of anything from him this year.


Players don't play fast until they are comfortable in the system and maybe even larger their surroundings. For whatever reason, it seems Coleman hasn't reached that point with any NFL club yet, and it seems the Giants' coaches are coddling him into that level of knowledge and comfort. He looked fast returning kicks, didn't he?

Again, I get the sense PS's system is very WR friendly - whatever that means.
RE: Slayton is going to make the team.  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/17/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14473994 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves, and I say that as someone who wasn't crazy about the pick, and has been on his case since rookie camp. He's a lock. Book it.

Last year the Giants kept seven WR's on the roster, but they skimped on RB's. This year I figure they'll keep six WR's and carry one more RB than they did last year. Special teams will no doubt be one of the deciding factors.

Slayton, Tate, and Shepard make three. Of the remaining eight, I'd pencil in Corey Coleman. It's hard to believe that a guy who's still only 24 can be considered a reclamation project, but that's essentially what Coleman is. He did do a nice job returning kicks last year, and my guess is the Giants want to see what he can do with their full offseason program under his belt. They don't have anything to lose by giving a young guy with his skills a fair shot.

On the other hand, I don't know why they kept Cody Latimer around. He's the poster boy for underachieving WR's, and at 27 are the Giants expecting a miraculous turnaround from him? Maybe they are, but I wouldn't. The beats seem to love him, though, so I'll pencil him in, too, even though I'd rather not.

I figure the last spot will go to either Russell Shepard (28), Bennie Fowler (28), or Alonzo Russell (27), whomever is the best special teams player.

My dark horse WR, Reggie White, Jr. (23) - is most likely destined for the PS. Maybe Alex Wesley (24), too. I think Brittan Golden (30) is history.


The fact that Lattimer started out as the #3 WR and received most of the reps tells you something about how the coaches view him, so you can +/- disregard how little he has accomplished over the course of his career at this point - which IIRC was largely dictated by his inability to stay on the field, nu?

Lattimer also 1) seems to catch contested balls, 2) plays gunner well too (I have a hard time keeping track of STs contributions from guys who are oft injured) and 3) simply has an upper tier set of physical attributes, what Marc Ross lived to call "height, length, speed". The characteristics that often led to over-drafting prospects on potential during the Reese era.

But for sure Lattimer is being challenged by several veterans desperate to make the roster as well as the rookie Slayton who has a very serious physical toolbox himself.

Reggie White will need some Victor Cruz pre-season moments to make the team, and remember after shining out like a meteor even VC actually simply "made" the IR list year one. IIRC it was his sophomore year when VC won a starting job outright.
...  
christian : 6/17/2019 12:56 pm : link
The Giants have unquestionably targeted and improved the pass blocking on the line, which as the unit builds continuity, will give Manning more time to let plays develop.

I suspect the Giants will also effectively be building the offense inside out, as Barkley is one of the more dangerous players in the league, and I'd hope the Giants punish teams for stacking the box and keying on the run game.

I just don't see where four yard quick hits to Tate fit as a staple in this type of offense.

I really hope the play action opens things up over the top -- I hope Coleman and Tate are used in that respect.
Lou, Latimer admitted to having problems with the playbook in Denver.  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 1:04 pm : link
He also had problems staying out of trouble away from the field. But the only injury he suffered happened right after he signed with the Giants. In Denver, Latimer wasn't injury-prone - he just wasn't very good, in fact, he was eclipsed on their depth chart by none other than Bennie Fowler!

Was he good on special teams? In 2017, this guy said no, although I think he sold him a little short as a kick returner. He was okay in that department. But I'm just not going to disregard four years of sucktitude in Denver, where he averaged 8.75 receptions a year!

I'm sure Tolbert vouched for him, which is why he's here, and the Giants did see fit to re-sign him, so they still must like him, but, honestly I'm just really, really tired of watching guys like Latimer take up space while we're waiting for that proverbial light to come on.
RE: ...  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/17/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14474346 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants have unquestionably targeted and improved the pass blocking on the line, which as the unit builds continuity, will give Manning more time to let plays develop.

I suspect the Giants will also effectively be building the offense inside out, as Barkley is one of the more dangerous players in the league, and I'd hope the Giants punish teams for stacking the box and keying on the run game.

I just don't see where four yard quick hits to Tate fit as a staple in this type of offense.

I really hope the play action opens things up over the top -- I hope Coleman and Tate are used in that respect.


For all that Tate isn't a vertical threat, keep in mind this isn't Gillbride's and TC's offense. Shurmur loves to spread the defense horizontally a la Bill Walsh. and I think our OTs and OGs and WRs/TEs have that skill set to block in space for PS's scheme.
Cody Latimer - Special Teams - Stupid Evaluations  
Bob in Newburgh : 6/17/2019 1:32 pm : link
Denver - If Cody Latimer was good on Special Teams, it would stand to reason that he might be a Captain. I suppose the next claim will be that he must have made himself Captain.
RE: RE: Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
Brown Recluse : 6/17/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14474250 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14474214 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


in college.

I really don't expect much of anything from him this year.



Players don't play fast until they are comfortable in the system and maybe even larger their surroundings. For whatever reason, it seems Coleman hasn't reached that point with any NFL club yet, and it seems the Giants' coaches are coddling him into that level of knowledge and comfort. He looked fast returning kicks, didn't he?

Again, I get the sense PS's system is very WR friendly - whatever that means.


Practically every player in the NFL is "fast." I'm talking different level, burner fast. Its not there.
RE: Don't count out Reggie White Jr. He's got good speed and size and  
cjac : 6/17/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14473657 Ira said:
Quote:
good hands.


i really want to see this kid make the team
RE: RE: RE: Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/17/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14474447 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:


Practically every player in the NFL is "fast." I'm talking different level, burner fast. Its not there.


in 2016 when Coleman came out Mike Mayock wrote this about him:

"He's a dynamic playmaker. Think Percy Harvin, that's the kind of playmaker that he is. He has a quick start and explosive speed. The only key for him is that he hasn't run a route tree. You will have to manufacture touches for him as he learns the route tree. He's special with the football in his hands." -- Mike Mayock

What has happened since then to make this outright false?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
Greg from LI : 6/17/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14474467 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
What has happened since then to make this outright false?
61 catches for 798 yards in 27 career games? Just spitballing here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
Brown Recluse : 6/17/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14474467 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14474447 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:




Practically every player in the NFL is "fast." I'm talking different level, burner fast. Its not there.



in 2016 when Coleman came out Mike Mayock wrote this about him:

"He's a dynamic playmaker. Think Percy Harvin, that's the kind of playmaker that he is. He has a quick start and explosive speed. The only key for him is that he hasn't run a route tree. You will have to manufacture touches for him as he learns the route tree. He's special with the football in his hands." -- Mike Mayock

What has happened since then to make this outright false?


No idea. But he definitely hasn't displayed Percy Harvin type dynamic playmaking traits. Not even as a kick returner. That much is obvious.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Coleman just doesn't seem as fast on the NFL field as he did  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14474472 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14474467 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


What has happened since then to make this outright false?

61 catches for 798 yards in 27 career games? Just spitballing here.


That probably has less to do with his speed, and more to do with his inability to catch the ball.
As a kick returner last year...  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 2:30 pm : link
Coleman was tied with two other players for 7th in the league in number of returns (23). He was 6th in the league in yards per return (26.0), and 9th in the league in total kick return yards (598). His longest kick return went for 51 yards, which was the 11th longest in 2018.
798 yards on 61 catches doesn't exactly scream playmaking ability  
Greg from LI : 6/17/2019 2:37 pm : link
A mere 13 yards per reception
RE: 798 yards on 61 catches doesn't exactly scream playmaking ability  
Klaatu : 6/17/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14474503 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
A mere 13 yards per reception


For the two years he was in Cleveland, only Josh Gordon had a higher ypc than Coleman. One year Terrelle Pryor had over 70 receptions, but his ypc was still 13.1. Their QB's were pretty bad. I guess that's why their RB's had a ton more catches than their WR's.

But Coleman's catch rate was abysmal. Two year average of 42%, which is one reason he averaged just under three catches per game. It's hard to make plays if you can't hang onto the ball or if your QB can't get it to you.
From Duggan  
BSIMatt : 6/18/2019 12:22 am : link
Quote:


While Slayton bears watching, Corey Coleman is the early favorite for the No. 3 receiver job alongside Sterling Shepard and Golden Tate. Cody Latimer and Bennie Fowler also saw time with the first-team offense, but Coleman got the most reps with the starters. The Giants are giving the former first-round pick every opportunity to revive his career.

The Giants have to be hoping the speedy Coleman can fill the void left in their deep passing attack created by the trade of Odell Beckham Jr. Coleman has been a bust in his first three seasons, but the Giants think he’ll benefit from a full offseason in their offense after joining the team midway through last season.

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