A) We haven't a clue yet who the 3rd WR on the field will be as a starter, let alone the 4th for 4 WR sets.
B) The only roster locks are Sterling Shepard, Golden Tate, and I assume Darius Slayton as 5th round draft picks usually get "scholarship" roster slots, at least, and anyway he's been singled out by PS as "most improved" rookie from 1st rookie mini-camp to the end of the OTAs. Obviously Slayton's raw athleticism is high upper tier, speed, hops, quickness, very solid size, arm length, and huge hands.
C) From the rest - not even addressing the UDFA long shots whose best shot is on the PS - Lattimer seems to have played the most 1st team reps, Coleman has a rare killer speed factor and was a very good KR guy last year and seems to relish STs in general (he's desperate to stick, clearly), and Fowler has been reported to be the best player among them so far, in shorts, whether that's 2nd team reps or otherwise.
That leaves Russel Shepard - a team leader and valuable gunner and STs guy - on the bubble. Some folks call him a "DG guy" in terms of roster presence and character. I'm just not sure that's enough this year for him to grab a slot among 6 WRs, let alone if they keep only 5.
Guys are battling for their livelihoods here, for sure. Should be a fun watch from the sidelines.
On BBKL recently Dottino was opining that there may not be roster room for both Coleman and Slayton. IDK about that because CC did handle returns last year very well, and has stated that he relishes STs. Slayton - well he sticks for upside and just cause he cost a draft pick...
If both those "vertical" guys stick, WR slots 5 and potentially 6 too could be determined largely by potential STs contributions among Russel Shepard, Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler, and anyone else in the mix, which probably gives RS the edge.
It's really a big freaking set of ????
So someone like Slayton may sneak on to the practice squad, especially if there is little tape on him in preseason.
Preseason injuries will likely take out one player at each position. At WR, Latimer is likely to be injured but any one of the WRs is a candidate for IR.
I get the desire to be optimistic about Tate, but just a cursory glance at his numbers, and you see a guy who's been a high target, high YAC, but pretty low YPR compiler, for a while.
Maybe he eats into Barkley's targets, that would be fine, Barkley isn't the most productive place to put 120 targets.
Yessir, that's what makes this battle intriguing!
PS's rep is as QB whisperer, but IMO the development of Thielen and Diggs as one of the best WR duos in the league is no small feat itself. Coleman for example (from interview comments) is drooling at the opportunity to turn into something like those guys.
The departure of OBJ has left at least one door WIDE open.
Shepard is most certainly not my man -- but yet with all of Tate's awesome YAC skills -- Shepard still averages more yards per reception than Tate. Why might that be?
Slayton if he pans out can keep defenses honest in the deep game. The rest of these guys are going to be players that can be moved around, get yards after the catch, and stick their nose in the running game IMO.
Bingo. Tate is a high target, low YPC, dump-off WR.
The DB's on the other hand are a complete unknown. We have no idea what Beal, Love, Baker, and Peppers are going to be. 1 or 2 of those guys could end up in the pro bowl. Or none of them could go. But what was possibly the weakest unit on the team has added enough upside that it could flip to being the best unit on the team with a little luck.
Reports/summaries from the OTAs were that Sterling Shepard was hands down the Giants' best WR during the Spring. He's a good candidate for the breakout player of the year on offense for the Giants with OBJ gone. I really doubt he'll play 2nd fiddle to Golden Tate.
The DB's on the other hand are a complete unknown. We have no idea what Beal, Love, Baker, and Peppers are going to be. 1 or 2 of those guys could end up in the pro bowl. Or none of them could go. But what was possibly the weakest unit on the team has added enough upside that it could flip to being the best unit on the team with a little luck.
Who will play what role among the CBs perhaps is more interesting, but 3/4 of the base 4 DBs are set: both safeties and Jenkins at 1 CB spot. And I think the WHO will make the roster question at DB is more easily answered barring injuries all 6 CBs - Jenkins, Baker, Beal, Love, Haley and Ballentine will make the roster.
3 safeties (Bethea, Peppers, and Thomas) and 6 CBs are clearly poised to make the 53, with only the 4th safety's ID in question. At WR, after Shepard, Tate, and almost 100% Slayton, it's all ????? IMO.
Reminds me a lot of Steve Smith.
Who will play what role among the CBs perhaps is more interesting, but 3/4 of the base 4 DBs are set: both safeties and Jenkins at 1 CB spot. And I think the WHO will make the roster question at DB is more easily answered barring injuries all 6 CBs - Jenkins, Baker, Beal, Love, Haley and Ballentine will make the roster.
3 safeties (Bethea, Peppers, and Thomas) and 6 CBs are clearly poised to make the 53, with only the 4th safety's ID in question. At WR, after Shepard, Tate, and almost 100% Slayton, it's all ????? IMO.
Shepard and Tate (and Engram if we're counting him) are going to have the majority of catches though barring injury, so the position is pretty settled. Latimer, Coleman, and Slayton are the most talented reserves, if we get lucky 1 of them steps up to be a real big play threat but more than likely ST will be a big factor in who sticks.
The DB's are more up in the air IMO. The nickel spot is up for grabs, the boundary CB opposite Jenkins is up for grabs. Our starting FS is a new addition. A lot of unknowns in a good way.
Slayton has the size and speed. But is this the case of everyone projecting on to him X talent simply because the team has such a need for it?
I like Slayton. But size/speed guys who last to the 5th round--there is usually a reason.
Slayton has the size and speed. But is this the case of everyone projecting on to him X talent simply because the team has such a need for it?
I like Slayton. But size/speed guys who last to the 5th round--there is usually a reason.
Both Shephard and especially Tate can get off the line of scrimmage. That is what makes this paring so interesting is that they can both line up at x,y, and z.
I get the desire to be optimistic about Tate, but just a cursory glance at his numbers, and you see a guy who's been a high target, high YAC, but pretty low YPR compiler, for a while.
Maybe he eats into Barkley's targets, that would be fine, Barkley isn't the most productive place to put 120 targets.
I know that one of the areas that Shula said they really wanted to expand and work on with Barkley was as a receiver. The line was so bad last year that it was hard for Barkley to be much more than a checkdown and while Barkely as a checkdown is still a scary proposition for some defenses, getting him downfield a bit more and in space is even scarier imo. There is more upside there with Barkley, hoping improved oline play can let the Giants show more of what they have in him as a player(ala Faulk, or what New Orleans has been doing with Kamara)
I'd like to see a combination of fewer targets to Barkley overall, and when he is targeted it be deeper downfield.
I expect the pass-pro to round into shape and Manning to have time to let things develop. Hopefully the Giants are throwing the ball in the air downfield and not 4 yard dumpoffs to Tate.
I think any number of these guys can rise to the occasion with the roster as it stands. Eli has paid the price over the years at times, but he has never been shy about giving a WR a chance to go make a play.
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Tate and Shep are really both slot receivers. One will play the Z. But who do the Giants have that can get off the LOS with a CB right on him? Coleman cant get off the LOS. That's one of the reasons he was a bust, along with bad hands and an inability to come down with the ball in traffic.
Slayton has the size and speed. But is this the case of everyone projecting on to him X talent simply because the team has such a need for it?
I like Slayton. But size/speed guys who last to the 5th round--there is usually a reason.
Both Shephard and especially Tate can get off the line of scrimmage. That is what makes this paring so interesting is that they can both line up at x,y, and z.
It's great to read about the performance and progress of Darius Slayton. After the rookie minicamp he was struggling with drops but the fact that he has already earned time with the starters is a very encouraging sign.
I think any number of these guys can rise to the occasion with the roster as it stands. Eli has paid the price over the years at times, but he has never been shy about giving a WR a chance to go make a play.
The Nicks, Cruz and Manningham trio is IMO a terrible example of an "organic" trio by design. Clearly Nicks was the #1 X and Cruz the #2 Z or Y depending on the formation. Manningham was definitely the 3rd guy in, too, except when either Nicks or Cruz were injured. Cruz worked great out of the slot, so ran most of his routes from the slot in 3 WR sets. They were only "organic' in resppnse to injuries or maybe once in a while match ups targeting specific opponent DBs.
Otherwise, I agree with the ideas expressed in your post about what they would like to do with the current group - particularly with the pair of Shepard and Tate. And I am not sure but the #3 WR could be 'organic' from week to week, with any WR on the roster locking the spot down for a week or three if they deliver the goods.
Yeah, in all likelihood Darius Slayton is not gonna get cut. If they see regression and don't believe he's ready to play 2019, he'll find a way onto the IR list.
Last year the Giants kept seven WR's on the roster, but they skimped on RB's. This year I figure they'll keep six WR's and carry one more RB than they did last year. Special teams will no doubt be one of the deciding factors.
Slayton, Tate, and Shepard make three. Of the remaining eight, I'd pencil in Corey Coleman. It's hard to believe that a guy who's still only 24 can be considered a reclamation project, but that's essentially what Coleman is. He did do a nice job returning kicks last year, and my guess is the Giants want to see what he can do with their full offseason program under his belt. They don't have anything to lose by giving a young guy with his skills a fair shot.
On the other hand, I don't know why they kept Cody Latimer around. He's the poster boy for underachieving WR's, and at 27 are the Giants expecting a miraculous turnaround from him? Maybe they are, but I wouldn't. The beats seem to love him, though, so I'll pencil him in, too, even though I'd rather not.
I figure the last spot will go to either Russell Shepard (28), Bennie Fowler (28), or Alonzo Russell (27), whomever is the best special teams player.
My dark horse WR, Reggie White, Jr. (23) - is most likely destined for the PS. Maybe Alex Wesley (24), too. I think Brittan Golden (30) is history.
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type of scenario. I think there will be plenty of opportunities for lots of guys leading to more organic results like we saw with Nicks, Cruz & Manningham
I think any number of these guys can rise to the occasion with the roster as it stands. Eli has paid the price over the years at times, but he has never been shy about giving a WR a chance to go make a play.
The Nicks, Cruz and Manningham trio is IMO a terrible example of an "organic" trio by design. Clearly Nicks was the #1 X and Cruz the #2 Z or Y depending on the formation. Manningham was definitely the 3rd guy in, too, except when either Nicks or Cruz were injured. Cruz worked great out of the slot, so ran most of his routes from the slot in 3 WR sets. They were only "organic' in resppnse to injuries or maybe once in a while match ups targeting specific opponent DBs.
Otherwise, I agree with the ideas expressed in your post about what they would like to do with the current group - particularly with the pair of Shepard and Tate. And I am not sure but the #3 WR could be 'organic' from week to week, with any WR on the roster locking the spot down for a week or three if they deliver the goods.
I was talking about the process of how they became 1,2,3
None of them were penciled in as anything when they first joined the roster. Nicks draft position was the only thing that created an expectation. Cruz wasn't even a starter.
I expect that Engram will be on the field for early downs as a receiver. Whatever you label him is going to be an exercise in semantics. On passing downs, he will be labeled TE. Where he actually lines up, may be something else.
For bottom of group, no telling yet whether true receiver ability, or other things, are given premiums.
Saquon's ability to play wr also factors in a little bit. If we get decimated by injuries to the WR corps we can split him out wide and bring in whatever RB we want. Perkins for his pass catching ability, Gallman for his versatility, and I believe Rod Smith is a good pass protector.
They'll probably keep at least one WR on the PS. Should they lose a WR, I figure they can activate a PS guy or look to sign a free agent. They did both last year. I don't see them using Barkley to make up for an injured WR.
Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...
Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...
Seems like the plan begins with better blocking up front to lessen the number or 2nd and Longs, 3rd and Longs...and for better pass-protection when the Giants want (or need) to throw.
The Tate signing notwithstanding (because, honestly, I'm still baffled by it), it also seems like the plan includes more speed at WR...drafting Slayton, keeping Coleman around (and Latimer, too, I suppose). Hell, even Reggie White, Jr. ran a sub-4.5 at his Pro Day.
I really don't expect much of anything from him this year.
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against this offense.
Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...
Seems like the plan begins with better blocking up front to lessen the number or 2nd and Longs, 3rd and Longs...and for better pass-protection when the Giants want (or need) to throw.
The Tate signing notwithstanding (because, honestly, I'm still baffled by it), it also seems like the plan includes more speed at WR...drafting Slayton, keeping Coleman around (and Latimer, too, I suppose). Hell, even Reggie White, Jr. ran a sub-4.5 at his Pro Day.
Yep, I don't disagree that plan should be around better blocking up front. However, if defenses feel they don't have to cover
Further, defenders will be ready for the hot read or flooding the lanes on throws.
we shall see...
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In comment 14474164 Jimmy Googs said:
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against this offense.
Hopefully Shurmur designs the offense with a few wrinkles to help spread things out a bit otherwise I can imagine a lot of throws short of the chains...
Seems like the plan begins with better blocking up front to lessen the number or 2nd and Longs, 3rd and Longs...and for better pass-protection when the Giants want (or need) to throw.
The Tate signing notwithstanding (because, honestly, I'm still baffled by it), it also seems like the plan includes more speed at WR...drafting Slayton, keeping Coleman around (and Latimer, too, I suppose). Hell, even Reggie White, Jr. ran a sub-4.5 at his Pro Day.
Yep, I don't disagree that plan should be around better blocking up front. However, if defenses feel they don't have to cover
Then, to borrow from Emperor Palpatine, the Giants have to make them pay a price for their lack of vision.
Otherwise we're in for some very long Sundays.
I really don't expect much of anything from him this year.
Players don't play fast until they are comfortable in the system and maybe even larger their surroundings. For whatever reason, it seems Coleman hasn't reached that point with any NFL club yet, and it seems the Giants' coaches are coddling him into that level of knowledge and comfort. He looked fast returning kicks, didn't he?
Again, I get the sense PS's system is very WR friendly - whatever that means.