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NFT: Knicks: Draft week

Italianju : 6/17/2019 8:06 am
Draft is only 3 days away. Might not be the most eventful night for the knicks as #3 should be a lock and we dont pick again until #55. Id love to see us grab an extra pick or two and thats probably doable in the 2nd round.

Also a positive article about how the knicks handled the AD situation.
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/6/16/18679305/the-knicks-wont-sign-or-trade-for-a-star-this-june-you-should-feel-good-about-that

And it does seem the knicks do have interest in Randle, although im curious if that was started by BBI cause this was def the first place i saw it, lol.
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This is a very interesting time of the Knicks. Perry/Mills will be  
Ira : 6/17/2019 8:19 am : link
judged for it. How they handle the draft with the 3rd pick and free agency with lots of cap space is crucial to the team's future.
I think I read somewhere that the Knicks like but don't love Barrett  
Anakim : 6/17/2019 8:30 am : link
and we shouldn't be surprised if the Knicks opt for Culver at 3 over Barrett. Ideally, the Grizzlies would take Barrett at 2, leaving Morant for the Knicks. Apparently, Perry LOVES Morant.



Don't shoot the messenger
i posted this in the other thread  
nygiants16 : 6/17/2019 8:30 am : link
is this appealling?

russell/vet point
barrett/trier
harris/knox
randle/vet big
robinson/vet big

young team with a ton of room to grow and hope would be russell and barrett turn into a stud back court
Is there anything to this Kawhi article in Forbes last week?  
Chris684 : 6/17/2019 8:35 am : link
I know the common knowledge Toronto or Clippers/Lakers but do we have a shot?


Link - ( New Window )
The article came out last Monday  
Chris684 : 6/17/2019 8:37 am : link
and KD got hurt that night for whatever it's worth.
16  
Italianju : 6/17/2019 8:40 am : link
i dont mind that, but its only a real competitor if multiple guys take steps and Barrett is a superstar. I dont think anyone else on that team is a superstar and to really win in this league you need one.

I might be more interested in just Randle and see if DSJ takes a step forward. We could use a PF much more then a guard. And hold our capspace a bit longer instead of locking in 40+ to Randle/Dlo
RE: i posted this in the other thread  
bigbluehoya : 6/17/2019 8:43 am : link
In comment 14474007 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
is this appealling?

russell/vet point
barrett/trier
harris/knox
randle/vet big
robinson/vet big

young team with a ton of room to grow and hope would be russell and barrett turn into a stud back court


That's definitely a fun team, but I think it still leaves you a little short of being a real contender, even with some projected development. How much cap space does that leave for next offseason?

Not sure if Harris is a guy I like for NYK at the $ he will likely get.

really weird how everyone is now assuming  
SicilianGMEN : 6/17/2019 8:44 am : link
the Knicks end up with no big FA's (especially Durant) and I see 90% of fans and realGM Knicks board resorting to discussions surrounding signing people like Russell and Randle....how is it such a close to sure shot that now we miss out on Durant now? Weird
really weird how everyone is now assuming  
SicilianGMEN : 6/17/2019 8:45 am : link
the Knicks end up with no big FA's (especially Durant) and I see 90% of fans and realGM Knicks board resorting to discussions surrounding signing people like Russell and Randle....how is it such a close to sure shot that now we miss out on Durant now? Weird
I can only speak for myself  
Chris684 : 6/17/2019 8:48 am : link
But I'm not as much thinking they miss out on KD as I am hoping that they sit out on KD.

Now is not the time to sign a guy at 30+ years old who can't play this year and who we don't know will ever be the same.
RE: really weird how everyone is now assuming  
nygiants16 : 6/17/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14474016 SicilianGMEN said:
Quote:
the Knicks end up with no big FA's (especially Durant) and I see 90% of fans and realGM Knicks board resorting to discussions surrounding signing people like Russell and Randle....how is it such a close to sure shot that now we miss out on Durant now? Weird


i still think durant wants to come, like i saidni go back and forth, but right now i think i pass and go young
If they do sign  
Jan in DC : 6/17/2019 9:02 am : link
KD, I'd assume the contract will be filled with both player and team options. But that's a massive amount of cap space to essentially devote to someone who will be injured for a year.

Such bad luck that KD went down. Outside of Russell, I don't see a FA that I would want to give a multiyear deal at max money (Kawhi doesn't count because I don't believe he would coming to NY).

I think that the team needs to be thoughtful with this cap space, because even if they give 2 guys max money on 1 year deals like Middleton and Cousins or whoever they will not be the long term answer. The only thing they can do for the team is move us to the ranks of the mediocre.
I see virtually no chance  
bigbluehoya : 6/17/2019 9:10 am : link
Durant is amenable to accepting team options.
What I don't really understand about the 'we should still sign Durant'  
Heisenberg : 6/17/2019 9:14 am : link
plan is what the Knicks would do with the rest of the cap space. Sign another star who rides solo with the young-uns until Durant comes back? Can you convince another star to do that? If you can, then that's still probably the best path to being a contender. If you can't get the second star, what do we do with that money?

I think that's why you see folks interested in taking chances on contracts for younger guys who still have some upside, like Russell or Randle. It's a little more attractive than handing out big contracts to second tier stars that are maybe dubious teammates like Boogie or Butler.

I don't know if Russell + Randle would work and if they would meet their contract value. But they still have room to grow and improve and would make for a fun team to root for.
too bad next years FA is pretty shitty...  
Italianju : 6/17/2019 9:21 am : link
it would make the most sense if you sign KD to just suck again this year and let the kids improve and get another top 5 pick. Then add a good FA next year and get KD back. You would also have all the kids and another lottery pick if there was a star on the trade market. Or perhaps Barrett lit the world on fire and looks like he could be the #2 or #3 option on a contender.
RE: I think I read somewhere that the Knicks like but don't love Barrett  
nygiants16 : 6/17/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14474006 Anakim said:
Quote:
and we shouldn't be surprised if the Knicks opt for Culver at 3 over Barrett. Ideally, the Grizzlies would take Barrett at 2, leaving Morant for the Knicks. Apparently, Perry LOVES Morant.



Don't shoot the messenger


marc berman?
i feel like the barrett stuff was a couple weeks ago...  
Italianju : 6/17/2019 9:28 am : link
and was refuted pretty quickly by other writers. Barrett hasnt worked out for anyone else. Now if we pass im sure NO would take him at 4 without working him out, but i feel like the knicks game him some sort of assurance.
passing on Barrett at 3 seems  
bigbluehoya : 6/17/2019 9:36 am : link
pretty incomprehensible.

He's a highly coveted player by almost every other team. Making an independent decision that they don't want him is one thing, but if that's really the decision, it would seem pretty negligent not to at least get a return by moving back a bit.

As in all cases, it takes two to tango on a trade like that, but it seems there are more than 1 or two teams that would be buyers. (Pels at 4 likely one of them...)
Anak  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 6/17/2019 9:40 am : link
we know you don't like Barrett. Lol.

Anyway, yeah if the Knicks pass on him I'd be shocked.
RE: RE: I think I read somewhere that the Knicks like but don't love Barrett  
Anakim : 6/17/2019 9:43 am : link
In comment 14474059 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14474006 Anakim said:


Quote:


and we shouldn't be surprised if the Knicks opt for Culver at 3 over Barrett. Ideally, the Grizzlies would take Barrett at 2, leaving Morant for the Knicks. Apparently, Perry LOVES Morant.



Don't shoot the messenger



marc berman?


No, it wasn't Berman. It was some article I came across on Twitter, but I forgot which one it was
RE: Anak  
Anakim : 6/17/2019 9:44 am : link
In comment 14474073 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
we know you don't like Barrett. Lol.

Anyway, yeah if the Knicks pass on him I'd be shocked.



I like Barrett just fine. I just think he has a lot of work to do.
I don't think there's a chance they pass on Barrett  
Heisenberg : 6/17/2019 9:52 am : link
If they really didn't like him then they should trade down because there's no doubt there are teams that would move up to take him.
I like DeAndre Hunter - a better shooter and defender than Barrett,  
Ira : 6/17/2019 9:59 am : link
though not the athlete that Barrett is.
RE: I don't think there's a chance they pass on Barrett  
Anakim : 6/17/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14474082 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
If they really didn't like him then they should trade down because there's no doubt there are teams that would move up to take him.


I think the thinking is that Culver would be taken at 4 by the Pelicans, so the Knicks would lose him if they trade down.
RE: I like DeAndre Hunter - a better shooter and defender than Barrett,  
Greg from LI : 6/17/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14474090 Ira said:
Quote:
though not the athlete that Barrett is.


Barrett's quicker, but Hunter is bigger and stronger. Barrett has a much better handle and is better around the hoop, while Hunter is a lockdown defender and really good shooter.

Hunter is also 2 years older than Barrett  
Anakim : 6/17/2019 10:06 am : link
So he's more physically developed
Barrett  
Pete44 : 6/17/2019 10:11 am : link
The only the way the Knicks should not take Barrett is if they get a kings ransom from a team that covets him. If NOLA wants him, it should cost some of those Lakers picks. We know Cleveland also covets him as well.
Not splitting hairs  
Carl in CT : 6/17/2019 10:13 am : link
But he is just over 2 1/2 years older. You can easily say 3 as people say 2.
RE: RE: I like DeAndre Hunter - a better shooter and defender than Barrett,  
Heisenberg : 6/17/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14474098 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14474090 Ira said:


Quote:


though not the athlete that Barrett is.



Barrett's quicker, but Hunter is bigger and stronger. Barrett has a much better handle and is better around the hoop, while Hunter is a lockdown defender and really good shooter.


I really think Hunter will be a good NBA player. But one of the reasons that he's bigger and stronger than RJ is that he's 21 and RJ just turned 19 last week.

I think Hunter will be a really good 3 and D guy. He's a better prospect IMO than both the Bridges from last year, for example. It's not easy to project his game growing beyond that admittedly very valuable skillset but he has a really high floor. I'll be shocked if he's not a solid NBA player.

On the other hand, Barrett has a far wider array of skills than Hunter. He also has a far wider range of outcomes. On the plus side, he has the kind of scoring and playmaking skills that you could easily see bring him to an all star level. If he becomes a very efficient scorer, he could get to all NBA level. Conversely, if he remains at his current efficiency level, he'd be an inefficient chucker like so many other guys that came to the NBA and failed to make the leap.

For my money, the difference in the guy is the makeup. He's super competitive and driven. Add that to the talent and skills he already has and the sky is the limit. Knicks should pick him at 3.
Jay Billas  
Pete44 : 6/17/2019 10:20 am : link
Jay Bilas raves about Barrett, says he did nothing to lose his status as the #1 guy, except that Zion really blossomed. He does not understand why memphis was so fast to prefer Morant as RJ is the perfect guy for modern day NBA.
Right now I'd lean more torwards Culver  
ghost718 : 6/17/2019 10:22 am : link
I like Barrett,but he's being a little overrated by those who handed in their draft card to Patrick Ewing last month,didn't feel like waiting.
I'd be fine with Hunter or Culver if  
bceagle05 : 6/17/2019 10:23 am : link
star free agents were locked in - those two players complement stars better than Barrett. I have little faith in (healthy) star players coming at this point, so Barrett is the upside pick. I think the only real alternative would be Garland, whose game is tailor-made for the NBA.
RE: Jay Billas  
Heisenberg : 6/17/2019 10:27 am : link
In comment 14474124 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Jay Bilas raves about Barrett, says he did nothing to lose his status as the #1 guy, except that Zion really blossomed. He does not understand why memphis was so fast to prefer Morant as RJ is the perfect guy for modern day NBA.


Bilas slobbers all over dukies. I still like Ja more than Barrett.
I love Leonard's demeanor and the fact that  
GiantsUA : 6/17/2019 10:27 am : link
he plays both ends of the floor.

Seems like an adult, similar to the NYG 20018 rookie running back a bit, IMO.

I don't think the Knicks have a shot but it would be great.

Grin and Barrett -
RE: RE: RE: I like DeAndre Hunter - a better shooter and defender than Barrett,  
Ira : 6/17/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14474120 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 14474098 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14474090 Ira said:


Quote:


though not the athlete that Barrett is.



Barrett's quicker, but Hunter is bigger and stronger. Barrett has a much better handle and is better around the hoop, while Hunter is a lockdown defender and really good shooter.




I really think Hunter will be a good NBA player. But one of the reasons that he's bigger and stronger than RJ is that he's 21 and RJ just turned 19 last week.

I think Hunter will be a really good 3 and D guy. He's a better prospect IMO than both the Bridges from last year, for example. It's not easy to project his game growing beyond that admittedly very valuable skillset but he has a really high floor. I'll be shocked if he's not a solid NBA player.

On the other hand, Barrett has a far wider array of skills than Hunter. He also has a far wider range of outcomes. On the plus side, he has the kind of scoring and playmaking skills that you could easily see bring him to an all star level. If he becomes a very efficient scorer, he could get to all NBA level. Conversely, if he remains at his current efficiency level, he'd be an inefficient chucker like so many other guys that came to the NBA and failed to make the leap.

For my money, the difference in the guy is the makeup. He's super competitive and driven. Add that to the talent and skills he already has and the sky is the limit. Knicks should pick him at 3.


Good points. One thing that concerns me regarding Barrett'a becoming an efficient shooter is his foul shooting. Players who don't do well behind the foul line often don't develop better jump shots.
RE: I'd be fine with Hunter or Culver if  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/17/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14474127 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
star free agents were locked in - those two players complement stars better than Barrett. I have little faith in (healthy) star players coming at this point, so Barrett is the upside pick. I think the only real alternative would be Garland, whose game is tailor-made for the NBA.


100% agree. Hunter would've been the best choice for a player immediately playing with KD and whomever. The Knicks in this situation need to go for the highest upside and that's Barrett. I don't love him either, but there's no other player I clearly would take over him.
that's a fair point  
Greg from LI : 6/17/2019 10:43 am : link
The Knicks need a lottery ticket more than they need a high floor kind of prospect. Much as I love Dre, he is rather unlikely to become an NBA franchise player. Barrett probably won't either, but if you squint hard enough and tilt your head, he MIGHT have that ceiling.
The only drama is if we buy or trade for a late first/early second  
bceagle05 : 6/17/2019 11:06 am : link
otherwise we're in for a boring night. Summer League games should be fun - I think RJ/Mitch/Knox/Trier can topple the Frye/Lee/Nate squad as the greatest Summer League team in Knicks history - do they raise banners for that? Barring a Leonard signing, it might be the highlight of the season.
If Perry loves  
TommyWiseau : 6/17/2019 11:07 am : link
Morant so much, why not try and make a deal with the Grizzlies for the 2nd pick? Multiple ways we could accomplish that. Take a bad contract from them (Parsons?) plus the third, send DSJ and the 3rd pick, move 3 and a future pick etc.
Bottom line if the take anyone not named Ja or The dukie  
Carl in CT : 6/17/2019 11:08 am : link
(Without trading down for a boatload) will send the remotes flying.
i could see frank traded for a late first thursday  
nygiants16 : 6/17/2019 11:09 am : link
would clear another 3 million and add another cheap rookie...
Or if you want Culver/Hunter  
TommyWiseau : 6/17/2019 11:11 am : link
Then try to move down and acquire more assets. I am sure NO would love Barrett to pair with Zion
I think knicks will take Barrett  
nygiants16 : 6/17/2019 11:12 am : link
they spent 3 days with him, he is not working out for anyone else, and had professed his love for the Knicks...

Mills and Perry say thr same thing over and over again they do not want anyone who doesnt want to be here
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/17/2019 11:12 am : link
fail to see any argument for Culver. He's 21 in February, Barrett just turned 19. Culver may be more physically developed but not hugely so given the age difference. Culver is shorter, Culver freshman year put up 11 and 5 with 2 assists on 46/38, Barrett 23 and 8 with 4 assists, 45/31% shooting (identical to Culver this season). Yes, Culver is the better defender that would be a really poor move. You only get X chances at drafting a star and Barrett could be that.
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/17/2019 11:23 am : link
"He was in mourning after that loss," says Dwayne Washington, who has coached Barrett since he was 12. "Most people would have been like, 'I'm going to the league, I'm going to be a top-five pick. (Let's move on).'... He was burning."

That competitive drive has shaped Barrett as a player and person throughout a decorated high school career and his season at Duke. And those close to Barrett believe it will lead to success at the next level.

"Winning is the only thing that matters to him," Washington says. "There's no compromise.... Everything he's been about has been about winning, excellence, not being afraid to compete at the highest level, the biggest stage."

* * *

Barrett will step onto the biggest stage of his life on Thursday night when he shakes commissioner Adam Silver's hand and puts on the hat of the team that drafts him. If everything goes the way it's projected, Barrett will have a blue Knicks hat on when he walks off the Barclays Center stage. New York is expected to select Barrett with the No. 3 pick.

And if they do, the immediate question some long-suffering Knicks fans will ask about Barrett is, can he handle the Big Apple?

Those who have spent time around Barrett believe the answer is a resounding yes.

"There's one guy in (the draft) that's built for New York City and that's RJ Barrett," says Rae Miller, an assistant coach at Montverde Academy, where Barrett played high school basketball. "He has the personality, the level of play that New York enjoys and he has the character."

"He's been raised with a New York mentality," says Washington, adding: "He is what people say New Yorkers are supposed to be -- aggressive, determined, confident and always pushing the envelope. That's how you get to greatness."

Barrett has embraced the idea of playing for the Knicks, a franchise that has won just one playoff series in the past 19 years. He's only met and worked out for New York in the weeks leading up to the draft, eschewing workout invites from other teams with top picks.

"This is the place I want to be, so I hope they draft me," he said earlier this month.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: that's a fair point  
Stu11 : 6/17/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14474145 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The Knicks need a lottery ticket more than they need a high floor kind of prospect. Much as I love Dre, he is rather unlikely to become an NBA franchise player. Barrett probably won't either, but if you squint hard enough and tilt your head, he MIGHT have that ceiling.

Wow Greg coming from you that's gushing over Barrett! All joking aside I read where Boogie is looking at possibly another 1 year deal and the most the Warriors can offer is like 6 mill. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but you guys wouldn't take him here at like 2 years/20 mill or 1 year 10? Pair him with another FA and you still have all our assets AND cap space.
id do a dance..  
Italianju : 6/17/2019 11:33 am : link
if we can get a late first for Frank. And honestly for a contender it might not be the worst gamble. We know he is a plus defender and i still think he can develop a shot. So for a contender he could have more value then a guy drafted 28th. And for us it gives us a chance to take someone with more upside (and save a few $$)
RE: I like DeAndre Hunter - a better shooter and defender than Barrett,  
Vanzetti : 6/17/2019 11:34 am : link
In comment 14474090 Ira said:
Quote:
though not the athlete that Barrett is.


Sorry but DeAndre Hunter is not a better shooter than Barrett. Hunter was the third best shooter on his college team.

I'm huge Virginia fan, and I like Hunter. But he will be a complementary player in the NBA. Im not completely 100% sold on Barrett but he has the highest floor in this draft.
I think barrett's getting more love because hes a dukie  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/17/2019 11:36 am : link
But Culver is a legit prospect. To me it's not like Barrett is some kind of slam dunk. He didnt play this season in a way that justified him as a franchise-changing prospect, so this "he would have been the #1 pick before the season" means nothing.
RE: i posted this in the other thread  
MookGiants : 6/17/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14474007 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
is this appealling?

russell/vet point
barrett/trier
harris/knox
randle/vet big
robinson/vet big

young team with a ton of room to grow and hope would be russell and barrett turn into a stud back court


Russell is appealing. Harris and Randle are not.

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