To say this roster is so greatly improved for this year just extremely optimistic. For that to happen, you need Beal, who is essentially a rookie, and a bunch of other rookie DBs to play well as starters. You need Carter to take a massive year 2 step. You need X-man to rush the passer well as a rookie. You need Bethea not to regress at age 35. There are so many variables in this Defense. It's a rebuilding year, especially on the deviance side of the ball. There's a lot of future potential, but no proven pass rushers and only a single corner who has played a down in the league.
so it's hard to be optimistic, and set higher expectations and it's easier to be a realist and say, these guys are still a long way off.
That being said..I'm curious about the defense. It wasn't a strong unit a year ago, but I think there is more talent on hand this year. I think the secondary is night and day better from a talent standpoint. I think the defensive line is better.
The hardest thing to replace is going to be Vernon. Golden will get a crack at that, and I do expect Carter to be a better version of himself in year 2. Edge rush is a big question mark for them, hoping Golden, Carter and Ximines can stay healthy and be effective.
RE: I know they've been picked top 10 in back to back years Â
so it's hard to be optimistic, and set higher expectations and it's easier to be a realist and say, these guys are still a long way off.
That being said..I'm curious about the defense. It wasn't a strong unit a year ago, but I think there is more talent on hand this year. I think the secondary is night and day better from a talent standpoint. I think the defensive line is better.
The hardest thing to replace is going to be Vernon. Golden will get a crack at that, and I do expect Carter to be a better version of himself in year 2. Edge rush is a big question mark for them, hoping Golden, Carter and Ximines can stay healthy and be effective.
also hoping the coverage on the back end is a little better giving these guys time to get to the QB
It's a really young secondary. We have no pass rushers at all. I honestly think that .500 is a best case scenario.
I believe that management thinks that this team will be competitive NEXT year when we have a ton of cap space to add key free agents, no matter what they say to the public.
To say this roster is so greatly improved for this year just extremely optimistic. For that to happen, you need Beal, who is essentially a rookie, and a bunch of other rookie DBs to play well as starters. You need Carter to take a massive year 2 step. You need X-man to rush the passer well as a rookie. You need Bethea not to regress at age 35. There are so many variables in this Defense. It's a rebuilding year, especially on the deviance side of the ball. There's a lot of future potential, but no proven pass rushers and only a single corner who has played a down in the league.
There's a difference from being good to just being adequate. Outside of the year the Giants signed all of those FA's they probably have been bottom 10 defense in the league every year. I agree going from bad to good is a lot to ask. However, being somewere between 10-20 overall defense is achievable. You have to look at 3 factors
1) Overall talent with 2 starters coming form the '19 draft
2) BJ Hill, Carter and Haley making a yr1 to yr2 jump
3) Players that execute Betcher's scheme with a) players drafted and b) players signed he has coached in the past
I’d rather take some lumps with a young secondary Â
That had talent than what the giants trotted onto the field in 2018, which were several physically overmatched players who didn’t belong in the NFL as starters. And really, for majority of snaps we are talking about one position...cb position opposite Jenkins. Safeties are experienced players, Haley has a year under his belt and actually showed well as a rookie. If Love somehow beat out Haley we’d get a little younger there but that hasn’t happened yet.
wins if they play well. 7-9 would be overachieving with the usual hijinks and shenanigans.
But of course, anything is possible, and I remain optimistic. The team has under-performed so badly and been overhauled so deeply in recent years, that the unknowns are yooj. If they stay healthy and execute the plan, the sky is the limit.
We are fully capable of pulling defeat from the jaws of victory but 10-6 is very possible. I think 8-8 or 9-7 are the most likely.
Sep 8 Sun at Cowboys 4:25 PM FOX L
Sep 15 Sun Bills 1:00 PM CBS W
Sep 22 Sun at Buccaneers 4:05 PM FOX W
Sep 29 Sun Redskins 1:00 PM FOX W
Oct 6 Sun Vikings 1:00 PM FOX W
Oct 10 Thu at Patriots 8:20 PM NFLN L
Oct 20 Sun Cardinals 1:00 PM FOX W
Oct 27 Sun at Lions 1:00 PM FOX W
Nov 4 Mon Cowboys 8:15 PM ESPN W
Nov 10 Sun at Jets 1:00 PM FOX W
BYE
Nov 24 Sun at Bears 1:00 PM* L
Dec 1 Sun Packers 1:00 PM* FOX W
Dec 9 Mon at Eagles 8:15 PM ESPN L
Dec 15 Sun Dolphins 1:00 PM* W
Dec 22 Sun at Redskins 1:00 PM* W
Dec 29 Sun Eagles 1:00 PM* FOX L
If the OL stays healthy and performs above average as I expect them then I agree with your premise. They have a Vet QB, most players on offense will be in second year of system and the best running back in football. The coaching staff knows the players capabilities much better and they had a chance to experience the NFC for a year.
Defense is young but there is a lot of talent. I would seriously question Shurmer if the team does not get 9 wins. All we need is the defense to be average early on that gets better as the season progresses. I think the offense will be very strong.
RE: I’d rather take some lumps with a young secondary Â
That had talent than what the giants trotted onto the field in 2018, which were several physically overmatched players who didn’t belong in the NFL as starters. And really, for majority of snaps we are talking about one position...cb position opposite Jenkins. Safeties are experienced players, Haley has a year under his belt and actually showed well as a rookie. If Love somehow beat out Haley we’d get a little younger there but that hasn’t happened yet.
Oh, I completely agree. The arrow is pointing up definitely. I totally agreed with how we replenished the secondary again and again on draft day.
That being said, they are rookies and I expect at least 2 of them to get meaningful snaps and relied upon this year. Same with pass rushers. Maybe we got players that will be able to go out and ball right away, but I'm thinking that we're just a young team that's going to need time to put it together. Next year is when I think the team takes a jump.
... we face a lot of poor teams so it appears at first glance to be softer than usual.
HOWEVER -
The last few years, the Giants have been softer than the soft teams. Literally no other team in the NFL has a worse record over the last couple of seasons IIRC.
Is realistic... Our defense is talented but young and inexperienced and have not played together long enough to be comfortable with the system or each other... Need to be coached up well.... Our offense should be decent... Need to play ball control to keep our inexperienced D off the field..
Count the number of backup or rookie QBs we will face Â
Jim fassel won 10 games as a rookie with hot garbage at qb.
We don’t even know what shurmur is yet. We don’t know what this team is yet. If these kids have what it takes shurmur and bettcher won’t hold them back. That I’m pretty sure of. Let’s crawl first before we talk about any potential coaching pitfalls. Not even worth going there yet.
I also think way too much was made of last year’s issues Â
There were issues but I don’t need shurmur to be perfect or even above average in every facet just yet. Last year was a lost cause anyway. Let everyone grow into things for a bit.
We have a lot of nice things to look forward to with this roster but we need to be realistic about this year - our defense blows and our O will be quite limited in the passing game.
This year on O I'm looking forward to watching Saquon with an improved line. On defense I'm looking forward to... well, basically any flashes from young players, and hopefully an aggressive scheme itself.
8-8 is best case. A winning record is a remarkably low chance occurrence.
Not sure how anyone can be sure what the defense Â
Will be considering Lawrence, Baker, Peppers, Bethea, Golden, Beal haven’t played a down for us and all bring something to the table. Carter and Hill were two of the better rookies in the league at their respective positions and are going into year 2.
Throw in the fact that Bettcher whose defense was top 6 or better in blitz percentage every year in Arizona had to essentially shelf his full scheme because of lack of cover corners, Giants ranked 22nd in nfl in blitz percentage because he couldn’t be as aggressive as he wanted to be because our secondary was rolling with scab players. If the corners stay healthy, this is basically going to be your first look at Bettchers full scheme in 2019.
in a long time I feel like the Giants are heading in the right direction. Why? The OL. I think we finally have a core in place if Halapio does OK. The other thing I like is that a good team has the right mix of good vets, solid journeymen, contributing rookies, and a couple of stars. I can see that mix developing. And make fun of DG, I think there is something to this team chemistry stuff, and getting a good locker room matters. (Not knocking anyone in particular.)
We started so poorly last year as a result of our OL. If they were even just slightly bad we could have won a few in the first half of the season. But they were atrocious. Whatever Saquon did he did mostly by himself. EE turned it up at the end of the year after OBJ went down, and I think Tate and Shep are solid though not spectacular. If the new kid can add some threat of a deep ball just to make them respect it and maybe get the 8th man out of the box sometimes, the play action with Saquon could open up the intermediate passing game well and play action is the best part of Eli's game.
On D, we don't have the pass rush from the DL but we may be able to push the pocket some up the middle. We may struggle early but I think our new rookie 1st rounder may be the real deal. Bethea and Peppers might help. If they can give us 1/2 second longer in coverage and the big boys get push up the middle, I think it's possible our DC can find ways to generate some rush without the great DE. Our LB play will be a big question mark this year for me. If we continue to get killed over the middle, we'll keep struggling. But if they can get even a little better, that will translate to some wins.
As for coaching, I was not sold on Shurm at first, but he's growing on me. I think he's a pro. I think the guys respect him. They played for him last year even when it was all going bad in the first half of the year. Starting that poorly, he could have lost them and didn't. He looks more and more confident. Despite losing OBJ, our O actually was performing better down the stretch as the OL stabilized and EE emerged a bit. I think Shurmur knows what he's doing on O if we can execute it.
So, assuming health (which is the most important of all the exogenous factors), I think we can improve to about 9-7 with this schedule. I'd put the range between 7-9 (disappointing) and 10-6 (great turnaround).
Unless your coach is a complete idiot, I do not see a 4 game swing based solely on the man at the helm.
COACHING - not just HC - include Shumur, Shula, Bettcher
Team is definitely capable of 9-7 though.
Yeah, this is why I believe 9 wins isn't impossible. Ball control.
the roster is definitely improved but there are too many questions, untested young players, guys coming back from injury
8-8 would be a dream come true
That being said..I'm curious about the defense. It wasn't a strong unit a year ago, but I think there is more talent on hand this year. I think the secondary is night and day better from a talent standpoint. I think the defensive line is better.
The hardest thing to replace is going to be Vernon. Golden will get a crack at that, and I do expect Carter to be a better version of himself in year 2. Edge rush is a big question mark for them, hoping Golden, Carter and Ximines can stay healthy and be effective.
That being said..I'm curious about the defense. It wasn't a strong unit a year ago, but I think there is more talent on hand this year. I think the secondary is night and day better from a talent standpoint. I think the defensive line is better.
The hardest thing to replace is going to be Vernon. Golden will get a crack at that, and I do expect Carter to be a better version of himself in year 2. Edge rush is a big question mark for them, hoping Golden, Carter and Ximines can stay healthy and be effective.
also hoping the coverage on the back end is a little better giving these guys time to get to the QB
I believe that management thinks that this team will be competitive NEXT year when we have a ton of cap space to add key free agents, no matter what they say to the public.
1) Overall talent with 2 starters coming form the '19 draft
2) BJ Hill, Carter and Haley making a yr1 to yr2 jump
3) Players that execute Betcher's scheme with a) players drafted and b) players signed he has coached in the past
But of course, anything is possible, and I remain optimistic. The team has under-performed so badly and been overhauled so deeply in recent years, that the unknowns are yooj. If they stay healthy and execute the plan, the sky is the limit.
Sep 8 Sun at Cowboys 4:25 PM FOX L
Sep 15 Sun Bills 1:00 PM CBS W
Sep 22 Sun at Buccaneers 4:05 PM FOX W
Sep 29 Sun Redskins 1:00 PM FOX W
Oct 6 Sun Vikings 1:00 PM FOX W
Oct 10 Thu at Patriots 8:20 PM NFLN L
Oct 20 Sun Cardinals 1:00 PM FOX W
Oct 27 Sun at Lions 1:00 PM FOX W
Nov 4 Mon Cowboys 8:15 PM ESPN W
Nov 10 Sun at Jets 1:00 PM FOX W
BYE
Nov 24 Sun at Bears 1:00 PM* L
Dec 1 Sun Packers 1:00 PM* FOX W
Dec 9 Mon at Eagles 8:15 PM ESPN L
Dec 15 Sun Dolphins 1:00 PM* W
Dec 22 Sun at Redskins 1:00 PM* W
Dec 29 Sun Eagles 1:00 PM* FOX L
Defense is young but there is a lot of talent. I would seriously question Shurmer if the team does not get 9 wins. All we need is the defense to be average early on that gets better as the season progresses. I think the offense will be very strong.
Oh, I completely agree. The arrow is pointing up definitely. I totally agreed with how we replenished the secondary again and again on draft day.
That being said, they are rookies and I expect at least 2 of them to get meaningful snaps and relied upon this year. Same with pass rushers. Maybe we got players that will be able to go out and ball right away, but I'm thinking that we're just a young team that's going to need time to put it together. Next year is when I think the team takes a jump.
HOWEVER -
The last few years, the Giants have been softer than the soft teams. Literally no other team in the NFL has a worse record over the last couple of seasons IIRC.
Should be pretty close to what Win total will be...
We don’t even know what shurmur is yet. We don’t know what this team is yet. If these kids have what it takes shurmur and bettcher won’t hold them back. That I’m pretty sure of. Let’s crawl first before we talk about any potential coaching pitfalls. Not even worth going there yet.
This year on O I'm looking forward to watching Saquon with an improved line. On defense I'm looking forward to... well, basically any flashes from young players, and hopefully an aggressive scheme itself.
8-8 is best case. A winning record is a remarkably low chance occurrence.
Throw in the fact that Bettcher whose defense was top 6 or better in blitz percentage every year in Arizona had to essentially shelf his full scheme because of lack of cover corners, Giants ranked 22nd in nfl in blitz percentage because he couldn’t be as aggressive as he wanted to be because our secondary was rolling with scab players. If the corners stay healthy, this is basically going to be your first look at Bettchers full scheme in 2019.
Their are usually 4 games a year that fall in that category every season...
We started so poorly last year as a result of our OL. If they were even just slightly bad we could have won a few in the first half of the season. But they were atrocious. Whatever Saquon did he did mostly by himself. EE turned it up at the end of the year after OBJ went down, and I think Tate and Shep are solid though not spectacular. If the new kid can add some threat of a deep ball just to make them respect it and maybe get the 8th man out of the box sometimes, the play action with Saquon could open up the intermediate passing game well and play action is the best part of Eli's game.
On D, we don't have the pass rush from the DL but we may be able to push the pocket some up the middle. We may struggle early but I think our new rookie 1st rounder may be the real deal. Bethea and Peppers might help. If they can give us 1/2 second longer in coverage and the big boys get push up the middle, I think it's possible our DC can find ways to generate some rush without the great DE. Our LB play will be a big question mark this year for me. If we continue to get killed over the middle, we'll keep struggling. But if they can get even a little better, that will translate to some wins.
As for coaching, I was not sold on Shurm at first, but he's growing on me. I think he's a pro. I think the guys respect him. They played for him last year even when it was all going bad in the first half of the year. Starting that poorly, he could have lost them and didn't. He looks more and more confident. Despite losing OBJ, our O actually was performing better down the stretch as the OL stabilized and EE emerged a bit. I think Shurmur knows what he's doing on O if we can execute it.
So, assuming health (which is the most important of all the exogenous factors), I think we can improve to about 9-7 with this schedule. I'd put the range between 7-9 (disappointing) and 10-6 (great turnaround).