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NFT: Mets at Braves Game 1 Wheeler

ZGiants98 : 6/17/2019 7:29 pm
Mets Lineup

Jeff McNeil – LF
Pete Alonso – 1B
Robinson Cano – 2B
Michael Conforto – RF
Wilson Ramos – C
Todd Frazier – 3B
Amed Rosario – SS
Juan Lagares – CF
Zack Wheeler – RHP

Braves Lineup

Ronald Acuna – CF
Dansby Swanson – SS
Freddie Freeman – 1B
Josh Donaldson – 3B
Nick Markakis – RF
Austin Riley – LF
Brian McCann – C
Ozzie Albies – 2B
Mike Soroka – RHP

Things seem to be falling apart a bit. Nimmo seeing a specialist. Syndergaard on the IL. Vargas out yesterday with a leg cramp. Three more losses and we probably could have won every game. Familia might be the most damaging move of the entire offseason in terms of it contributing to actually losses. Probably the final stretch to get above .500 by the all star break/deadline. LGM!
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Freddy Valdez  
pjcas18 : 6/18/2019 12:43 am : link
walked once tonight. he went 0 for 2, but he walked, oh sorry and he stole a base.

that's the bright spot from the top 30 on the farm tonight.

THE bright spot.
,  
pjcas18 : 6/18/2019 1:12 am : link

Anthony DiComo
‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo
54m54 minutes ago

Mets bullpen ERA by year (MLB rank in parentheses):

2019: 5.39 (27th)
2018: 4.96 (28th)
2017: 4.82 (29th)
2016: 3.50 (6th)
2015: 3.40 (10th)

Since the start of the 2017 season, the Mets have produced a 4.98 bullpen ERA, better than only the Tigers (5.05).
34 replies 28 retweets 124 likes
Anthony DiComo
‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo
53s54 seconds ago

A correction here: the Mets actually rank 28th in MLB, not 27th, with a 5.47 bullpen ERA.

Why has this happened? Many factors, but the biggest is probably their inability to develop quality relievers from within. Relying on free agency to build a bullpen is always precarious.
The most overhyped starting pitching staff in baseball history  
giantsFC : 6/18/2019 2:20 am : link
Combined w the worst bullpen ever

Sad bc the positional players are actually somewhat exciting and competitive this year.

Outside of degrom, this team has no consistent top end starter. Thor is a headcase who is always hurt. Wheeler is the classic overhype. Too bad Harvey got hurt and had a shit attitude bc that’s where it went south.
Man  
figgy2989 : 6/18/2019 7:13 am : link
Just when you think the bullpen can't get any worse...


What happened to all those BP arms Sandy would always acquire at the deadline, are any of those guys going to pan out?
It's happening again  
Chris684 : 6/18/2019 9:05 am : link
Ugh
Bring in Girardi already!  
Chris684 : 6/18/2019 9:06 am : link
..
the SP isn't overhyped - they've been top of MLB for 5 years now  
Eric on Li : 6/18/2019 9:47 am : link
the BP sucks and the every day lineup has either sucked or been mediocre. But the SP has carried this org to the little success they've had the past several years despite awful defense, mostly bad bullpens, and bad offenses. And that's even with Harvey's career being derailed by injuries.

Here are the top 8 teams in SP fwar since 2015. Which one of these franchises isn't like the others...
1. Cleveland
2. Nats
3. LAD
4. Houston
5. Mets
6. Red Sox
7. Cubs
8. Yankees

In 2015-16 the BP was good with Familia + Reed + Blevins but Collins had to overuse them bc the Wilpons are cheap. In 2017 the BP imploded bc Familia got hurt and Reed got traded. In 2017/2018 they did an absolutely awful job trading/developing/signing new talent. Ramos, Swarzak, Bautista, Wahl, Drew Smith, Wahl, etc.

This past offseason BVW "invested" in the BP by making an awful trade but then spent less $ in the BP vs. last year. It's rarely possible to invest less resources in something and get better performance. Instead of spending $20m on Ottavino he signed Lowrie when we already had two 2B and two 3B on the roster.

But nitpicking moves not made may be meaningless because the cherry on top of all of it is that we hired a pitching guru in 2017 who has thus far been more clueless and apathetic than any coach I can remember in NY since Kotite. He is worse than Mcadoo. Diaz was the best reliever in baseball last year now he sucks. Familia has been a top closer for 5 years now he sucks. The definition of insanity is trying the same things over and over again and expecting different results. Almost every pitcher Mickey has touched has turned to shit. It's long past time to try something else.
RE: Actually the fact that the Nats are about to pass NYM  
Section331 : 6/18/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14475071 ChaChing said:
Quote:
what more can be said. Nearly in 4th place

What did Brodie say, "Come get us" was it?


He was referring to the Marlins.
RE: No need for any one to feel too bad  
Section331 : 6/18/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14475109 ChaChing said:
Quote:

Wheeler maybe sucked the least?


Wheeler got a bit of a raw deal. Came out of the 1st down 2-0, should have been 0-0. Alonso butchered a DP GB, and McNeil dropped a catchable ball. Which brings me to one of my biggest pet peeves about MLB scoring, what the hell does an OF need to do to get charged with an error? That ball McNeil butchered wasn't that tough of a catch, he had his glove on the ball and dropped it. How that isn't an E-7 is beyond me.
RE: Actually the fact that the Nats are about to pass NYM  
gmenatlarge : 6/18/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14475071 ChaChing said:
Quote:
what more can be said. Nearly in 4th place

What did Brodie say, "Come get us" was it?


I think he was talking to the fans...
RE: RE: No need for any one to feel too bad  
gmenatlarge : 6/18/2019 10:08 am : link
In comment 14475379 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14475109 ChaChing said:


Quote:



Wheeler maybe sucked the least?




Wheeler got a bit of a raw deal. Came out of the 1st down 2-0, should have been 0-0. Alonso butchered a DP GB, and McNeil dropped a catchable ball. Which brings me to one of my biggest pet peeves about MLB scoring, what the hell does an OF need to do to get charged with an error? That ball McNeil butchered wasn't that tough of a catch, he had his glove on the ball and dropped it. How that isn't an E-7 is beyond me.


More excuses for Wheeler, face it, he crumbles under adversity where a real SP hunkers down and gets himself out of jams.
RE: RE: RE: No need for any one to feel too bad  
Section331 : 6/18/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14475401 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:


More excuses for Wheeler, face it, he crumbles under adversity where a real SP hunkers down and gets himself out of jams.


That has been true in the past, but I think Wheeler is MUCH better at handling adversity this year. It's tough to come out of an inning unscathed when your teammates blow 3 outs.
RE: RE: No need for any one to feel too bad  
Jay on the Island : 6/18/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14475379 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14475109 ChaChing said:


Quote:



Wheeler maybe sucked the least?




Wheeler got a bit of a raw deal. Came out of the 1st down 2-0, should have been 0-0. Alonso butchered a DP GB, and McNeil dropped a catchable ball. Which brings me to one of my biggest pet peeves about MLB scoring, what the hell does an OF need to do to get charged with an error? That ball McNeil butchered wasn't that tough of a catch, he had his glove on the ball and dropped it. How that isn't an E-7 is beyond me.

How should it have been 0-0 when Acuna Jr. lead off the game with a homerun?
When you consider how cheap the starting  
Metnut : 6/18/2019 10:34 am : link
rotation has been, it's a monumental failure from top to bottom how many losing seasons (and seasons over before 4th of july) that his organization has had.
RE: RE: RE: No need for any one to feel too bad  
Section331 : 6/18/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14475428 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:

How should it have been 0-0 when Acuna Jr. lead off the game with a homerun?


It should have been caught! You're right, totally brain farted that one.
I think the fans had unrealistic expectations for the rotation  
Jay on the Island : 6/18/2019 10:50 am : link
deGrom had a truly historic season last year plus Wheeler was just as good during the second half. Many fans assumed that both would continue to perform at those unsustainable levels.

Wheeler is healthy but has been the same as he was prior to his scorching second half. The Mets need to decide if they want to offer him a long term deal or not. If not they need to explore trading him before the deadline. The longer they wait the more options become available when other teams start falling out of the race. As of today you already have Stroman, Bumgarner, Robby Ray, Boyd, Minor, etc. available.
RE: I still feel the Nats are dangerous...  
Jay on the Island : 6/18/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14475074 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
This division is still a bitch...

This has to stop because we are in agreement again. The Nationals concern me with that staff and the talent to go on a tear over the second half.
'what the hell does an OF need to do to get charged with an error?'  
schabadoo : 6/18/2019 12:19 pm : link
I wonder that too. Didn't they give an inside the park HR on the ball that Cespedes dropped in the WS?
We just CANT  
Shecky : 6/18/2019 6:10 pm : link
Ever have good things. EVER!!
RE: We just CANT  
Eric on Li : 6/18/2019 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14475968 Shecky said:
Quote:
Ever have good things. EVER!!


I assume there's some sense of humility in the organization now that you can't just snap your fingers and change the culture. Do you think there's anything chance things meaningfully improve or is it going to be same old story?
Lots of frustration  
Shecky : 6/18/2019 7:37 pm : link
Mickey is just not the right guy for this clubhouse, and that’s an understatement. I think he’d be fine in a veteran heavy clubhouse, old Red Sox for example. This group needs more energy, needs to believe in a leader.
RE: Lots of frustration  
Eric on Li : 6/18/2019 7:49 pm : link
In comment 14476046 Shecky said:
Quote:
Mickey is just not the right guy for this clubhouse, and that’s an understatement. I think he’d be fine in a veteran heavy clubhouse, old Red Sox for example. This group needs more energy, needs to believe in a leader.


optics can be deceiving but outwardly he is 1 of the worst leaders i've ever seen as a manager/head coach in all pro sports. Wishy washy, not accountable, no energy, inconsistent, victimhood. And obviously strategically he's a disaster. I was all for him but honestly would have fired him last year to try to jump start the team with Collins when he was still around. Baseball manager may be a position without much impact but leadership can have an impact in any situation.
In between the torture of watching Mets baseball...  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 8:08 pm : link
Justine Ward



Gelbs is good, but thanks for taking some fam time
Continuing w/ the torture, not sure if this was known already but SNY  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 8:25 pm : link
crew saying:

Nimmo is shut down for a month min

Justin Wilson was expecting a final rehab start but was scratched due to elbow tightness
Would be excited about 4-0 but it's just the 3rd  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 8:26 pm : link
and a JDG start so STILL have to temper expectations
deGrom looks filthy tonight...  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 8:39 pm : link
Have to make this stand up.

Wilson scratched with elbow stiffness in his rehab game. LOL. Forget it. Completely lost season.
Alonso!  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 8:44 pm : link
Whoo!
Alonso HR #24  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 8:46 pm : link
2 more runs

6-0 NYM
Frazier's done a commendable job this year  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 8:50 pm : link
But why is this team so petrified to try to do better? Davis is outhitting him by a mile and outside of a rocky start defensively looked better as the year went on. Play the kid at 3B! Same with shit ass Gomez. Play McNeil or Conforto in CF and get Dom's bat in the lineup. Do something though. Cant work with half a lineup every night. Thats why its so frustrating for me. We actually DID have some depth this year. USE IT.

This rotation is still VERY good though. Even with the ball flying out of the ballpark this year at a historic rate by all teams we are still at the top of the heap and its likely to even out even further as a slow start by deGrom, etc. was uncharacteristic.

Bullpen is a mess. It's really Lugo/Diaz right now and nothing else. Gsellman is fine for like a 5th guy but not a top setup guy. Familia is a disaster and for Wilson its a lost season due to injuries. Hopefully some young guys step up. We have some reliever talent in AAA and if we are in it in a few weeks maybe we can make a trade for another setup guy and promote a couple. Gillium Im looking at you.
JDG looking like the 2018 model  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 8:55 pm : link
today
The starting rotation started out rough, really rough, but I feel like  
PhiPsi125 : 6/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
they’ve stabilized a bit (for the most part). Still underperforming but not bad enough that can’t be overcome. The BP has absolutely destroyed any shot we had to be competitive this season. Abhorrently bad. The offense is okay but, AGAIN, half our lineup are zeros. Cano is one our worst players (shocker, told you so - great trade BVW). And I guess Lowrie’s septum has deviated again. I was looking forward to the 35 year old sudden HoF player could do.

The Braves have a really nice team. Nearly every single hitter has an OPS of .800 or higher. And the one hitter under that is at .778. That’s crazy. And pretty consistent. The Mets have so many case study’s of success to learn from and they still make the same ignorant decisions year after year. Such a dumb franchise.
RE: JDG looking like the 2018 model  
Jay on the Island : 6/18/2019 9:22 pm : link
In comment 14476142 ChaChing said:
Quote:
today

Yes and so is Teheran unfortunately lol.
RE: RE: JDG looking like the 2018 model  
PhiPsi125 : 6/18/2019 9:31 pm : link
In comment 14476167 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14476142 ChaChing said:


Quote:


today


Yes and so is Teheran unfortunately lol.


I always felt like Teheran killed the Mets. Really thought he was going to be a stud pitcher for years.

Don’t know why this particular game sticks out in my mind - but there was a game earlier in Teheran’s career against the Mets where he got pissed at the HP ump and showed the ump up while on the mound. The HP ump didn’t call a single strike for the next three batters (and they were definitely strikes) and it screwed the game for the Braves. I’ve never seen such a dickish display from an official in my life. HP umps are the most sensitive officials there are in any sport - and consistently the worst lol.
Yeah may not be a Paul DeJong, but he's a Met killer  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 9:46 pm : link
i think they said an ERA just over 2 iirc
This ump has an intense strike call  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 10:02 pm : link
not only delayed, loud and long, but with a very accusatory if not menacing finger point
The Braves have a nice lineup  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 10:06 pm : link
of young players obviously but the Mets really should have too. Nimmo, Conforto, McNeil, Alonso, Dom, Rosario, and maybe even Davis could be a fine nucleus. All teams have to sprinkle in a few vets. Donaldson is exactly the type of player we would have signed and he would have been a disaster here. The guy has been an injured mess for years (and for the record I did want the Mets to sign them).

Point is, you have to sprinkle in a few older guys to fill out a roster. Lowrie and Cano were coming off very nice seasons.. Ramos too for that matter. Same with Bruce the year before last year. It just never seems to work out our way. And Nimmo out with a bulging disk in his neck after the year he had last year has nothing to do with age but yet is soooooo Mets.
This is pretty funny...  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 10:13 pm : link
CluelessMickeyC

#Jake is pitching great. The offense is raking. If only we can play every game without using the bullpen and without relying on me to have to make any decisions. #Mets #LGM
Funny, but didn't they just say the Mick was about to pull JDG  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 10:18 pm : link
prior to last inning? SNY was conjecturing that's what was going on fwiw

Tho after batting it seems he should be going out in the 9th

McNeil goes yard!
Can someone clue me in  
SJGiant : 6/18/2019 10:20 pm : link
As to why Diaz is warming up in a blowout game?
haha....  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 10:25 pm : link
Of course Freeman tells deGrom to fuck himself.
FU Freddie  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 10:26 pm : link
FU

What a (annoyingly) good player
Whatever, just get JDG his W  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 10:27 pm : link
that's a huge achievement for this team
Seriously  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 10:29 pm : link
quit it
Mets W  
ChaChing : 6/18/2019 10:36 pm : link
JDG sick save last two ABs

Alonso on base SIX times, 4/4
Ill give the Mets the slide edge tomorrow  
ZGiants98 : 6/18/2019 10:44 pm : link
Matz VS Fried. Win tomorrow and we still have a pulse.

Cubs for 4 games will be tough. Probably going to have to go Font-Vargas-Wheeler-deGrom. Might be able to split that series..

Brutal stretch! Keep fighting!
'Davis is outhitting him by a mile'  
schabadoo : 6/18/2019 11:38 pm : link
Davis and Frazier are like #5-6 on the team for OPS YTD, which includes Frazier's slow start coming back from injury.
Kelenic  
pjcas18 : 6/19/2019 2:12 am : link
#25 in MLB's latest top 100 prospects.

Dunn #68.

Gimenez #59
Mauricio #83
Anthony Kay #96

Astros have 3 of the top 11.

that's all I noticed, but I have been drinkings, so could have missed something.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Ill give the Mets the slide edge tomorrow  
Jay on the Island : 6/19/2019 9:33 am : link
In comment 14476273 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Matz VS Fried. Win tomorrow and we still have a pulse.

Cubs for 4 games will be tough. Probably going to have to go Font-Vargas-Wheeler-deGrom. Might be able to split that series..

Brutal stretch! Keep fighting!

It depends which Fried shows up. He appears to be wearing down already being that he only thew 77 innings last year and 92 the year before. He is already at 76 IP this year. Unfortunately for us he will likely be moved to the pen soon to limit his innings before being shut down.
That was quite a night for Alonso even considering the season he's  
Ira : 6/19/2019 9:47 am : link
been having. I've been waiting to see if pitchers caught on to him, but that doesn't seem to be the case. He's currently 2nd in home runs and 8th in OPS in the majors.
RE: 'Davis is outhitting him by a mile'  
ZGiants98 : 6/19/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14476346 schabadoo said:
Quote:
Davis and Frazier are like #5-6 on the team for OPS YTD, which includes Frazier's slow start coming back from injury.


Is this a serious statement? Davis is performing at 10% better clip and is 26. Frazier has been average for years and his in his 30s. He’s actually outperforming what he did all of last year so is likely due for even more regression.
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