he could hit like a truck, had tons of range, made big plays in big games. He was the leader on a very underrated Niners' defense (underrated only because of Montana and Rice, and the Bears and Giants got more press, but their defense was consistently a top 5 defense).
sure looked like he was on his way to this "title", but since his life was cut short, I'll say Ed Reed too, if you want a more two-way player it has to be Lott or Polamalu
RE: RE: I honestly feel like Brian Dawkins was one of the best
Hes the best weak safety Ive seen since Ive been in the National Football League in my career. Hes outstanding at pretty much everything. The list goes on and on with him. Its just a question of pretty much anything hes out there for, hes good at.
For those to young to remember it, check out his most famous hit, when he went head to head with the Nigerian Nightmare, Christian Okoye, and knocked him on his ass. Link - ( New Window )
Could change the game in an instant. There was a video a few years back of Little Bill and Brady talking about how he was absolutely everywhere and paying him the ultimate respect.
For those to young to remember it, check out his most famous hit, when he went head to head with the Nigerian Nightmare, Christian Okoye, and knocked him on his ass. Link - ( New Window )
Okoye was interviewed later and he said that he jumped and had left his feet and that's why Atwater destroyed him. He learned after that hit not to jump and keep his feet.
For those to young to remember it, check out his most famous hit, when he went head to head with the Nigerian Nightmare, Christian Okoye, and knocked him on his ass. Link - ( New Window )
Okoye was interviewed later and he said that he jumped and had left his feet and that's why Atwater destroyed him. He learned after that hit not to jump and keep his feet.
Yeah you could see he kind of stops/hesitates there right before the hit. It was a great shot by Atwater but if Okoye keeps his feet on the ground and moving forward there it looks a bit different... lol
Ummm Ronnie Lott and it isn't even close. Talk about one of the most feared hitter who also was great at covering! Best Safety I have ever seen and probably ever will with all these new rules protecting players.
...I am old enough to remember Homer Jones running over Larry Wilson for a touchdown. Not that one play should define the great HOF Cardinal Safety, but seeing Homer Jones cold-cock Larry Wilson was like a man playing against a boy.
I will not say necessarily the best, but on some of the worse NYG teams, this "Spider" brought it. Yes, I am for Spider Lockhart, a 13th round selection out of North Texas. He was named "Spider" by Emlen Tunnel and was part of the Emlin's Gremlins.
Spider spent his entire 11-year career with the Giants. He was a Pro Bowl free safety in 1966, despite the Giants being the worst defensive team in points allowed/game in NFL history:
He was a Pro Bowl free safety a second time in 1968, leading the league in defensive touchdowns. Spider intercepted 41 passes in his career and recovered 16 fumbles during his 145 games played. Lockhart also returned 328 punts and was famous for rarely calling for a fair catch.
I will never forget the foot race that he and Bob "Bullet" Hayes ran on December 12, 1971. Hayes caught a pass from Staubach around mid field. It was one of the most classic foot/track-like races to the end zone I have ever seen. Spider tried to stay with Hayes but inside the 20 yard line, the Bullet went into another gear and pulled away slightly, that is, 5 or 6 yards ahead to the end zone.
To my eyes Lott had a serious hole in his game. He like to lay wood so much he'd whiff at times and also put himself out of position. And it wasn't such a rare circumstance with him, he'd do it a lot, pun intended. Reed was more consistent and left his team exposed less often, and was a surer tackler.
I guy I figured wouldn't get mentioned and didn't was Johnny Robinson of the Chiefs. But he should be in the convo IMO.
His instincts were unreal. He was just an absolute madman out there and at his best he was elite against both the run and pass. That's why I always liked him better than Ed Reed, which was an opinion where I know I was in the minority. I think in terms of "Peak", I'd go Polamalu over Reed for the completeness of his game. But career wise, Reed was just better for longer and more consistent.
Ed Reed is the best pure cover safety I've seen, best "offensive" defensive player since Deion with the way he'd get those pick-6s. But I don't think he was strong enough against the run to have a real argument vs. Ronnie Lott all-time.
Dawkins is 3rd behind Reed/Polamalu for me. Dirty but a hell of a force out there. He was definitely better than John Lynch who was a similar type of player.
Earl Thomas is great, like a lesser Ed Reed. Definitely up there among guys I've seen.
Ronnie Lott would probably be #1 for me. Johnny Robinson and Ken Houston deserve to be mentioned in this thread too.
Off topic I think the most underrated defense of all time is the 1969 Chiefs. All Pros and HOFers at every level and never mentioned with the best defenses of all time. They should be.
has said that Kenny Easley is the best safety to ever play the game. I've never seen Easley play....would be worth checking out highlights. He was DPOY in '84, which is hard to be for a safety.
I think the Lott vs Reed debate is more a debate on eras. Lott would be suspended for 8 games a season in this century's game and Reed wouldn't have been as effective in the '80s and early '90s with less passes being thrown and a lot more runs.
That Lott was 1st team all pro twice as a CB, and then as safety 6 times has to be the overriding nod.
Hes the best weak safety Ive seen since Ive been in the National Football League in my career. Hes outstanding at pretty much everything. The list goes on and on with him. Its just a question of pretty much anything hes out there for, hes good at.
Little Bill thinks that Peyton Manning is better than Montana and Marino.
I guess it's harder to game plan for a QB when you don't have LT and that NYG defense.
And still despite those early Patriots teams having a very good (but nothing worthy of an all time defense), they embarrassed the crap out of Peyton Manning.
Then there were the Peyton rule changes as well....
Lil Bill - GOAT coach perhaps, but his choices in best ever intrigue me.
has said that Kenny Easley is the best safety to ever play the game. I've never seen Easley play....would be worth checking out highlights. He was DPOY in '84, which is hard to be for a safety.
I think the Lott vs Reed debate is more a debate on eras. Lott would be suspended for 8 games a season in this century's game and Reed wouldn't have been as effective in the '80s and early '90s with less passes being thrown and a lot more runs.
That Lott was 1st team all pro twice as a CB, and then as safety 6 times has to be the overriding nod.
Link - ( New Window )
Agreed. Easley was one of the best ever. That he had to wait over 30 years to be enshrined in the HOF was egregious and laughable..Had he played in a big market, he would have been huge, imo
the wait for enshrinement for Easley was mainly because
His instincts were unreal. He was just an absolute madman out there and at his best he was elite against both the run and pass. That's why I always liked him better than Ed Reed, which was an opinion where I know I was in the minority. I think in terms of "Peak", I'd go Polamalu over Reed for the completeness of his game. But career wise, Reed was just better for longer and more consistent.
Ed Reed is the best pure cover safety I've seen, best "offensive" defensive player since Deion with the way he'd get those pick-6s. But I don't think he was strong enough against the run to have a real argument vs. Ronnie Lott all-time.
Dawkins is 3rd behind Reed/Polamalu for me. Dirty but a hell of a force out there. He was definitely better than John Lynch who was a similar type of player.
Earl Thomas is great, like a lesser Ed Reed. Definitely up there among guys I've seen.
I will never forget the foot race that he and Bob "Bullet" Hayes ran on December 12, 1971. Hayes caught a pass from Staubach around mid field. It was one of the most classic foot/track-like races to the end zone I have ever seen. Spider tried to stay with Hayes but inside the 20 yard line, the Bullet went into another gear and pulled away slightly, that is, 5 or 6 yards ahead to the end zone.
And Im convinced Sean Taylor was destined for their level.
But give me Lott. He was every bit the ballhawk as Reed and unleashed more fear as a hitter. The pro bowls as a corner and the rings create material separation...
Are all number 1. Polomalus leap over the line at the snap on the goal line is probably the single greatest instinctive play of the group. For me it was like Odells one hander in comparison to positions. Unreal.
My brother-in-law (a lineman) played in a high school ...
1a and 1b. Who's better? Depends on what you want. Lott was an intimidator like none other at the position, Reed was the best center fielder I ever saw.
Green was a corner
By baller do you mean piece of shit?
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I've ever seen play. I obviously saw him more than guys like Ed Reed and Troy P, I just loved the way he played the game..he was a baller.
By baller do you mean piece of shit?
No, I mean he played the safety position at a higher level than 99% of NFL safeties.
The next tier would be Polamalu, followed by Steve Atwater, Deron Cherry, Dawkins, Kenny Easley, in no particular order.
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That said, it's hard to argue with Ed Reed and/or Ronnie Lott.
Link - ( New Window )
Okoye was interviewed later and he said that he jumped and had left his feet and that's why Atwater destroyed him. He learned after that hit not to jump and keep his feet.
Ed Reed was awesome as well, but Lott won more...hence the nod to him.
Ed Reed was awesome as well, but Lott won more...hence the nod to him.
+1 Lott was more of an all-round player, better run defender than Reed.
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For those to young to remember it, check out his most famous hit, when he went head to head with the Nigerian Nightmare, Christian Okoye, and knocked him on his ass. Link - ( New Window )
Okoye was interviewed later and he said that he jumped and had left his feet and that's why Atwater destroyed him. He learned after that hit not to jump and keep his feet.
Yeah you could see he kind of stops/hesitates there right before the hit. It was a great shot by Atwater but if Okoye keeps his feet on the ground and moving forward there it looks a bit different... lol
guy was really special
Earl is a damn good safety, but since he signed that big contract in 2014, dude has been injured basically every year.
IMO, he is on the same level as Eric Berry. Very very good safeties, but not "all time greats".
Ummm Ronnie Lott and it isn't even close. Talk about one of the most feared hitter who also was great at covering! Best Safety I have ever seen and probably ever will with all these new rules protecting players.
I've always felt like Sean Taylor was a bit overrated.
Merton Hanks
Spider spent his entire 11-year career with the Giants. He was a Pro Bowl free safety in 1966, despite the Giants being the worst defensive team in points allowed/game in NFL history:
He was a Pro Bowl free safety a second time in 1968, leading the league in defensive touchdowns. Spider intercepted 41 passes in his career and recovered 16 fumbles during his 145 games played. Lockhart also returned 328 punts and was famous for rarely calling for a fair catch.
I will never forget the foot race that he and Bob "Bullet" Hayes ran on December 12, 1971. Hayes caught a pass from Staubach around mid field. It was one of the most classic foot/track-like races to the end zone I have ever seen. Spider tried to stay with Hayes but inside the 20 yard line, the Bullet went into another gear and pulled away slightly, that is, 5 or 6 yards ahead to the end zone.
RIP Spider.
Carnell Lake, Darren Woodson, LeRoy Butler
I guy I figured wouldn't get mentioned and didn't was Johnny Robinson of the Chiefs. But he should be in the convo IMO.
Ed Reed is the best pure cover safety I've seen, best "offensive" defensive player since Deion with the way he'd get those pick-6s. But I don't think he was strong enough against the run to have a real argument vs. Ronnie Lott all-time.
Dawkins is 3rd behind Reed/Polamalu for me. Dirty but a hell of a force out there. He was definitely better than John Lynch who was a similar type of player.
Earl Thomas is great, like a lesser Ed Reed. Definitely up there among guys I've seen.
Off topic I think the most underrated defense of all time is the 1969 Chiefs. All Pros and HOFers at every level and never mentioned with the best defenses of all time. They should be.
Merton Hanks
You're damn right!!!
I think the Lott vs Reed debate is more a debate on eras. Lott would be suspended for 8 games a season in this century's game and Reed wouldn't have been as effective in the '80s and early '90s with less passes being thrown and a lot more runs.
That Lott was 1st team all pro twice as a CB, and then as safety 6 times has to be the overriding nod.
Link - ( New Window )
Little Bill thinks that Peyton Manning is better than Montana and Marino.
I guess it's harder to game plan for a QB when you don't have LT and that NYG defense.
And still despite those early Patriots teams having a very good (but nothing worthy of an all time defense), they embarrassed the crap out of Peyton Manning.
Then there were the Peyton rule changes as well....
Lil Bill - GOAT coach perhaps, but his choices in best ever intrigue me.
I think the Lott vs Reed debate is more a debate on eras. Lott would be suspended for 8 games a season in this century's game and Reed wouldn't have been as effective in the '80s and early '90s with less passes being thrown and a lot more runs.
That Lott was 1st team all pro twice as a CB, and then as safety 6 times has to be the overriding nod.
Link - ( New Window )
Agreed. Easley was one of the best ever. That he had to wait over 30 years to be enshrined in the HOF was egregious and laughable..Had he played in a big market, he would have been huge, imo
Ed Reed is the best pure cover safety I've seen, best "offensive" defensive player since Deion with the way he'd get those pick-6s. But I don't think he was strong enough against the run to have a real argument vs. Ronnie Lott all-time.
Dawkins is 3rd behind Reed/Polamalu for me. Dirty but a hell of a force out there. He was definitely better than John Lynch who was a similar type of player.
Earl Thomas is great, like a lesser Ed Reed. Definitely up there among guys I've seen.
How old are you?
Atwater is up there with the all timers. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves outside of old Broncos fans.
Wrong thread..😂
And Ed Reed. :)
And Ed Reed. :)
😎👍🏿👍
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Very good list.
I will never forget the foot race that he and Bob "Bullet" Hayes ran on December 12, 1971. Hayes caught a pass from Staubach around mid field. It was one of the most classic foot/track-like races to the end zone I have ever seen. Spider tried to stay with Hayes but inside the 20 yard line, the Bullet went into another gear and pulled away slightly, that is, 5 or 6 yards ahead to the end zone.
It was Henry Carr, another Olympian.
And Im convinced Sean Taylor was destined for their level.
But give me Lott. He was every bit the ballhawk as Reed and unleashed more fear as a hitter. The pro bowls as a corner and the rings create material separation...
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Merton Hanks
You're damn right!!!
I woulda got that if it was the question!
All-Star game against Ronny Lott in 1976. He once told me that Lott (as a safety hit harder than any other lineman he ever faced)
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Sean Taylor was pretty damn good too. It's a shame, because he could have been one of the best.
I've always felt like Sean Taylor was a bit overrated.
Taylor was starting to raise his level to his rep when was sadly murdered. Agree he was not even close to guys like Lott and Reed.
Lott was The best. Woodson and Reed are up here but for me its Lott. Atwater scared WRs too.
He wasnt healthy long enough. When he was, he was right there with Polamalu. He was right there with any S.
Even with the limited playing time, he should be in the HOF.
He wasnt healthy long enough. When he was, he was right there with Polamalu. He was right there with any S.
Even with the limited playing time, he should be in the HOF.
Totally agree KWALL. I have never seen one person especially (a safety, no less) transform a defense the way Sanders did.
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Sean Taylor was pretty damn good too. It's a shame, because he could have been one of the best.
I've always felt like Sean Taylor was a bit overrated.
Agreed - Taylor was more hype than performance. Physical freak, but I remember him getting burned frequently.
Even though Hayes was the Worlds Fastest Human, Carr could beat him in any race longer than 100 meters.