I know it's a small sample but he shot the lights out.
Also if we do draft Ja or Garland. Can we move DSJ and/or Frank for a late teens first?
How many successful 6'2 175 2 guards are there in the league currently?
Trae Young, Lou Williams, kemba Walker, DeAaron Fox, Mike Conley, Darren collison, DJ Augustin... there are a bunch of successful undersized score first PG in the league. That was a bad example, try that again.
you may want to try reading his post again before making yourself look like a fool...
I think at this point their best option is to sign Durant and sit him out next year. Hope DSJ, Knox, Mitch, Frank, Dotson make huge strides and most importantly hope Barrett really flashes as a rookie. Its time for Fizdale to earn that contract with these young guys. And if that Illyasova trade is available, Id do it for the 30th pick.
If they start going down the Julius Randle and Bobby Portis route, this season just became more of a disaster.
RE: Frank was one of those rare picks that everyone hated
type deals are going to have to wait. The knicks still must want to at least keep their option for two max guys open.
I think it was mentioned a couple places (cant remember exactly where) that the knicks interest in Randle would be on a short deal. I think they also mentioned Dlo in the same article, but there is zero chance you are getting him on a short term deal. TBH i dont think you are getting randle on a short term deal either. That said i like the thinking of not locking yourself into a 4/80 mill type deal for a Randle.
that i agree that Frank is a bust and i doubt he is anything more then a 15 minute a game role player. That said former lottery picks going into their third year who play plus defense do have some value. And do we really consider a second round pick value? I have seen most knick fans saying they would be floored if we got a first, but they would take a second (or a ham sandwhich). But sure im guessing one guy somewhere said they could get a mid first so all knick fans think he has great value.
Here are some scenarios of interest to me after what has transpired so far this offseason.
Draft:
Sit tight at #3 and take Barrett or Morant.
If New Orleans called about #3, I would listen for #4 and some of their newly acquired Lakers future draft assets and take Garland at #4, but they would really need to sweeten the pot to make it worthwhile.
Trade Frank for a 2nd rounder (early hopefully)
I would also take back Ilyasova's contract for #30 unless we felt we might be jeopardizing 2 max contracts.
Free Agency:
I would stay away from Durant. It sucks that it all changed overnight, but it did. Signing him would almost be cruel in a way knowing that we have him only to watch him sit in a suit every night.
Make the pitch to Kawhi and hope for the best. If it doesn't work out pivot to Russell if available and possibly Randle.
offered hayward 14 and 20 for cap space would you do it?
No I wouldnt. Thats simply not enough for taking on that contract.
And for everyone holding out hope for Kawhi- why on earth would he come to the Knicks? I just dont see any scenario where he seriously considers let alone signs with the Knicks.
And if the Knicks sign Julius Randle to 4 years 80 million Im taking a long break as a fan.
offered hayward 14 and 20 for cap space would you do it?
No I wouldnt. Thats simply not enough for taking on that contract.
And for everyone holding out hope for Kawhi- why on earth would he come to the Knicks? I just dont see any scenario where he seriously considers let alone signs with the Knicks.
And if the Knicks sign Julius Randle to 4 years 80 million Im taking a long break as a fan.
Well, I mean I'm not kidding myself into thinking he'll definitely be here, but he's taking the meeting. Unless/until he saysa he won't meet with the Knicks I'll hold out some slim hopes.
but I can understand why people think he should be the third pick overall. The upside is there, but I think the most likely scenario for him is that he is a solid starter in the league, not an all star, which is fine. I have seen most RJ's college games and I fear he can be stopped at the next level if his outside game does not dramatically improve. I think Garland is intriguing but I have not seen enough of him to make a solid comparison. However, and maybe this is a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people say we should draft Barrett third because he was supposed to be the number one pick before last year's draft. Well, you know what, we had a year of watching him play and two players surpassed him; if he stayed one more year, in next year's draft should a team pick him 6th because he would have been the third pick this year? The argument makes no sense at all.
shouldnt be anyones only reason, but it should be part of the reason. Are we supposed to ignore everything he did before he got to college? So ignoring the few years before college is normal, but determining his future based off one college season is perfectly fine? We have seen tons of guys who were consensus top 3 picks who bomb in college and dont get picked anywhere near there. The point with Barrett is he was the consensus one, went out and had a very good freshmen year and now is third just cause two guys exploded onto the scene.
but I can understand why people think he should be the third pick overall. The upside is there, but I think the most likely scenario for him is that he is a solid starter in the league, not an all star, which is fine. I have seen most RJ's college games and I fear he can be stopped at the next level if his outside game does not dramatically improve. I think Garland is intriguing but I have not seen enough of him to make a solid comparison. However, and maybe this is a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people say we should draft Barrett third because he was supposed to be the number one pick before last year's draft. Well, you know what, we had a year of watching him play and two players surpassed him; if he stayed one more year, in next year's draft should a team pick him 6th because he would have been the third pick this year? The argument makes no sense at all.
What do you think of Zion's outside shot holding him back? To my eye Zion's outside game is significantly worse than RJ's.
they need to surround him with shooters, he is going to venwfit a ton from the spacing in the nba, duke had zero shooters and he got to the rim at will..
and just 24. He's not KD, but if he's what the Knicks get, he's pretty good. Link - ( New Window )
Awful defender. Good scorer that doesnt do much else on the court to help you win. A big no thanks on any long term deal with him.
Sounds like Horford may head to Brooklyn. It would be hilarious if the Nets signed Irving and Horford away from the Celtics.
His problem is consistency, not defensive ability
Look, we all want perfect two way players. But there just aren't that many out there. I have higher hopes for FA, but if we end up with Randle on a 4 year deal, I'll be ok with that, too. He's a very tough and skilled offensively and added 3 pt shooting last year (.344). He's still getting better. The knicks could do worse and have certainly done worse in the past. Julius Randle late game defense - ( New Window )
I don't understand the hate for Barrett. He is a 19 year old kid with very good talent, especially fitting in the modern day NBA. To be honest, my fear is that NOLA hops in front of the Knicks and takes him.
His production at Duke is not something to sniff at and when Zion was out, there was barely no support. If you watch the first Syracuse game, where a couple of guys got hurt, he carried that team himself to overtime.
He needs some improvement, but in my mind, he is can be plugged in at the 1,2 or 3 for the next 15 years and watch him improve. I can't say he will be an all-star or not, but he very well could be as he is a very hard worker and skilled.
He got worse on defense last year. He put zero effort in on that end, and thats pretty alarming in a contract year. His 3pt shooting may have improved, but hes still not a good shooter spacing the floor.
If the Knicks prize this offseason is Julius Randle at 4 years 80 million, I will be beyond disappointed.
and guys like him. You get him through his prime years and he's likely to improve a bit - but if he's truly awful on defense then you're likely better off avoiding him. I'm going to pretend I've seen a lot of him. But I do like the idea of getting younger guys like him and Russell, or maybe Brogdon (not sure why he'd leave a very good Bucks team though).
Backtracking on kyrie to brooklyn being done has begun
Woj this morning said the idea is to have kyrie and another star if that doesnt happen, he thinks they just keep russell..
If Kyrie still wants to come to the Knicks with Durant- Im all for it. Even if the Knicks get Durant , I just think its going to be difficult to acquire a true star in the next couple years. 2020 free agent class is pretty bad. Whos the next big star available? Now until 2020, the only stars I could see traded are Conley, Holiday and Beal. But things could always change...
The Knicks are in a tough spot. If they get Durant, id try to sign a couple younger guys as well - i.e Brogdon. But is it better to keep the cap space or overpay to get a couple guys?
but I can understand why people think he should be the third pick overall. The upside is there, but I think the most likely scenario for him is that he is a solid starter in the league, not an all star, which is fine. I have seen most RJ's college games and I fear he can be stopped at the next level if his outside game does not dramatically improve. I think Garland is intriguing but I have not seen enough of him to make a solid comparison. However, and maybe this is a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people say we should draft Barrett third because he was supposed to be the number one pick before last year's draft. Well, you know what, we had a year of watching him play and two players surpassed him; if he stayed one more year, in next year's draft should a team pick him 6th because he would have been the third pick this year? The argument makes no sense at all.
What do you think of Zion's outside shot holding him back? To my eye Zion's outside game is significantly worse than RJ's.
Zion is the biggest risk reward guy I have ever seen. Zion's outside game was putrid (although it did come on a bit after he came back from his knee and he hit some three pointers). Look,if Zion can physically dominate like he did in college in the NBA, he is going to be a superstar. If he can't, he might be a bust. I tend to think he will physically dominate, but anyone who really thinks they know for sure are full of shite.
but I can understand why people think he should be the third pick overall. The upside is there, but I think the most likely scenario for him is that he is a solid starter in the league, not an all star, which is fine. I have seen most RJ's college games and I fear he can be stopped at the next level if his outside game does not dramatically improve. I think Garland is intriguing but I have not seen enough of him to make a solid comparison. However, and maybe this is a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people say we should draft Barrett third because he was supposed to be the number one pick before last year's draft. Well, you know what, we had a year of watching him play and two players surpassed him; if he stayed one more year, in next year's draft should a team pick him 6th because he would have been the third pick this year? The argument makes no sense at all.
I basically feel this way exactly
RE: RE: Backtracking on kyrie to brooklyn being done has begun
Woj this morning said the idea is to have kyrie and another star if that doesnt happen, he thinks they just keep russell..
If Kyrie still wants to come to the Knicks with Durant- Im all for it. Even if the Knicks get Durant , I just think its going to be difficult to acquire a true star in the next couple years. 2020 free agent class is pretty bad. Whos the next big star available? Now until 2020, the only stars I could see traded are Conley, Holiday and Beal. But things could always change...
The Knicks are in a tough spot. If they get Durant, id try to sign a couple younger guys as well - i.e Brogdon. But is it better to keep the cap space or overpay to get a couple guys?
The 2021 class is loaded. If the Knicks strike out on KD and Kawhi, they should keep the flexibility to have at least one max then ie if you're taking on contracts to get assets make sure they don't run past two years. Paul George, Lillard, McCollum, Gobert, Beal, Giannis, Oladipo could all become UFA's.
RE: so they are only using kyrie to get the other star?
What hate? The great majority of posters like him and believe he's the best choice at #3.
What you shouldn't do is make him the second coming because right now he isn't. He's an average floor shooter, poor free throw and 3-point shooter. His handle is decent not great. He has great upside but has to improve several facets of his game to be a difference maker in the future.
I don't hate Barrett. I feel he'll be a good nba player. I'm just
Brian T. Smith
✔
@ChronBrianSmith
Rockets are expected to pursue Butler and be aggressive in their pursuit. Seen as an ideal fit on both ends of court, and in helping push Rockets to the top of the wide-open West.
shouldnt be anyones only reason, but it should be part of the reason. Are we supposed to ignore everything he did before he got to college? So ignoring the few years before college is normal, but determining his future based off one college season is perfectly fine? We have seen tons of guys who were consensus top 3 picks who bomb in college and dont get picked anywhere near there. The point with Barrett is he was the consensus one, went out and had a very good freshmen year and now is third just cause two guys exploded onto the scene.
I dont think that it's just because Zion and Morant had breakout years. Part of the equation is that, real or imagined, Barrett didnt build on his "consensus #1" reputation. Part of what goes into calling a guy the top pick in a draft is that you are assuming the player continues to grow and develop.
shouldnt be anyones only reason, but it should be part of the reason. Are we supposed to ignore everything he did before he got to college? So ignoring the few years before college is normal, but determining his future based off one college season is perfectly fine? We have seen tons of guys who were consensus top 3 picks who bomb in college and dont get picked anywhere near there. The point with Barrett is he was the consensus one, went out and had a very good freshmen year and now is third just cause two guys exploded onto the scene.
I dont think that it's just because Zion and Morant had breakout years. Part of the equation is that, real or imagined, Barrett didnt build on his "consensus #1" reputation. Part of what goes into calling a guy the top pick in a draft is that you are assuming the player continues to grow and develop.
Fully agree. Morant kind of exploded "out of nowhere" but Barrett has "dropped" in people's eyes in decent part due to his actual perceived flaws and not simply "he fell because of the other 2"
@wojespn
54m54 minutes ago
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Milwaukee Bucks All-Star forward Khris Middleton is declining his $13M player option and will become an unrestricted free agent, his agent, Mike Lindeman of Excel Sports, tells ESPN. Middleton and Bucks are planning to work together toward a new long-term deal, sources said.
i get that Conley is owed a ton of money, but man that return sux. I thought UTA was going to contend this past year and was a bit off, but now with conley they should def fight for the west.
I wish the Knicks could somehow get another pick in the
Quote:
In comment 14475863 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
I know it's a small sample but he shot the lights out.
Also if we do draft Ja or Garland. Can we move DSJ and/or Frank for a late teens first?
How many successful 6'2 175 2 guards are there in the league currently?
Trae Young, Lou Williams, kemba Walker, DeAaron Fox, Mike Conley, Darren collison, DJ Augustin... there are a bunch of successful undersized score first PG in the league. That was a bad example, try that again.
If they start going down the Julius Randle and Bobby Portis route, this season just became more of a disaster.
I think it was mentioned a couple places (cant remember exactly where) that the knicks interest in Randle would be on a short deal. I think they also mentioned Dlo in the same article, but there is zero chance you are getting him on a short term deal. TBH i dont think you are getting randle on a short term deal either. That said i like the thinking of not locking yourself into a 4/80 mill type deal for a Randle.
In this scenario, are we not getting any other FAs? then yes, I would.
Quote:
offered hayward 14 and 20 for cap space would you do it?
In this scenario, are we not getting any other FAs? then yes, I would.
you would still have 37 million in space...could still sign russell and a 10 million dollar player or a ciuple smaller pieces
Bad draft picks and damaged goods. How could you say no?
his master plan may not have resulted in a title (yet), but I'd take him as my team president over a moron like Mills any day.
Draft:
Sit tight at #3 and take Barrett or Morant.
If New Orleans called about #3, I would listen for #4 and some of their newly acquired Lakers future draft assets and take Garland at #4, but they would really need to sweeten the pot to make it worthwhile.
Trade Frank for a 2nd rounder (early hopefully)
I would also take back Ilyasova's contract for #30 unless we felt we might be jeopardizing 2 max contracts.
Free Agency:
I would stay away from Durant. It sucks that it all changed overnight, but it did. Signing him would almost be cruel in a way knowing that we have him only to watch him sit in a suit every night.
Make the pitch to Kawhi and hope for the best. If it doesn't work out pivot to Russell if available and possibly Randle.
Quote:
offered hayward 14 and 20 for cap space would you do it?
Bad draft picks and damaged goods. How could you say no?
Yeah fuck no to that deal
No I wouldnt. Thats simply not enough for taking on that contract.
And for everyone holding out hope for Kawhi- why on earth would he come to the Knicks? I just dont see any scenario where he seriously considers let alone signs with the Knicks.
And if the Knicks sign Julius Randle to 4 years 80 million Im taking a long break as a fan.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
offered hayward 14 and 20 for cap space would you do it?
No I wouldnt. Thats simply not enough for taking on that contract.
And for everyone holding out hope for Kawhi- why on earth would he come to the Knicks? I just dont see any scenario where he seriously considers let alone signs with the Knicks.
And if the Knicks sign Julius Randle to 4 years 80 million Im taking a long break as a fan.
Well, I mean I'm not kidding myself into thinking he'll definitely be here, but he's taking the meeting. Unless/until he saysa he won't meet with the Knicks I'll hold out some slim hopes.
Awful defender. Good scorer that doesnt do much else on the court to help you win. A big no thanks on any long term deal with him.
Sounds like Horford may head to Brooklyn. It would be hilarious if the Nets signed Irving and Horford away from the Celtics.
What do you think of Zion's outside shot holding him back? To my eye Zion's outside game is significantly worse than RJ's.
Quote:
and just 24. He's not KD, but if he's what the Knicks get, he's pretty good. Link - ( New Window )
Awful defender. Good scorer that doesnt do much else on the court to help you win. A big no thanks on any long term deal with him.
Sounds like Horford may head to Brooklyn. It would be hilarious if the Nets signed Irving and Horford away from the Celtics.
His problem is consistency, not defensive ability
Look, we all want perfect two way players. But there just aren't that many out there. I have higher hopes for FA, but if we end up with Randle on a 4 year deal, I'll be ok with that, too. He's a very tough and skilled offensively and added 3 pt shooting last year (.344). He's still getting better. The knicks could do worse and have certainly done worse in the past.
Julius Randle late game defense - ( New Window )
His production at Duke is not something to sniff at and when Zion was out, there was barely no support. If you watch the first Syracuse game, where a couple of guys got hurt, he carried that team himself to overtime.
He needs some improvement, but in my mind, he is can be plugged in at the 1,2 or 3 for the next 15 years and watch him improve. I can't say he will be an all-star or not, but he very well could be as he is a very hard worker and skilled.
If the Knicks prize this offseason is Julius Randle at 4 years 80 million, I will be beyond disappointed.
If Kyrie still wants to come to the Knicks with Durant- Im all for it. Even if the Knicks get Durant , I just think its going to be difficult to acquire a true star in the next couple years. 2020 free agent class is pretty bad. Whos the next big star available? Now until 2020, the only stars I could see traded are Conley, Holiday and Beal. But things could always change...
The Knicks are in a tough spot. If they get Durant, id try to sign a couple younger guys as well - i.e Brogdon. But is it better to keep the cap space or overpay to get a couple guys?
Quote:
but I can understand why people think he should be the third pick overall. The upside is there, but I think the most likely scenario for him is that he is a solid starter in the league, not an all star, which is fine. I have seen most RJ's college games and I fear he can be stopped at the next level if his outside game does not dramatically improve. I think Garland is intriguing but I have not seen enough of him to make a solid comparison. However, and maybe this is a pet peeve of mine, but I hate when people say we should draft Barrett third because he was supposed to be the number one pick before last year's draft. Well, you know what, we had a year of watching him play and two players surpassed him; if he stayed one more year, in next year's draft should a team pick him 6th because he would have been the third pick this year? The argument makes no sense at all.
What do you think of Zion's outside shot holding him back? To my eye Zion's outside game is significantly worse than RJ's.
Zion is the biggest risk reward guy I have ever seen. Zion's outside game was putrid (although it did come on a bit after he came back from his knee and he hit some three pointers). Look,if Zion can physically dominate like he did in college in the NBA, he is going to be a superstar. If he can't, he might be a bust. I tend to think he will physically dominate, but anyone who really thinks they know for sure are full of shite.
I basically feel this way exactly
Quote:
Woj this morning said the idea is to have kyrie and another star if that doesnt happen, he thinks they just keep russell..
If Kyrie still wants to come to the Knicks with Durant- Im all for it. Even if the Knicks get Durant , I just think its going to be difficult to acquire a true star in the next couple years. 2020 free agent class is pretty bad. Whos the next big star available? Now until 2020, the only stars I could see traded are Conley, Holiday and Beal. But things could always change...
The Knicks are in a tough spot. If they get Durant, id try to sign a couple younger guys as well - i.e Brogdon. But is it better to keep the cap space or overpay to get a couple guys?
The 2021 class is loaded. If the Knicks strike out on KD and Kawhi, they should keep the flexibility to have at least one max then ie if you're taking on contracts to get assets make sure they don't run past two years. Paul George, Lillard, McCollum, Gobert, Beal, Giannis, Oladipo could all become UFA's.
like i have been saying kyrie by himself makes no sense for the nets...
this feels like woj is hearing no one else wants the nets
What you shouldn't do is make him the second coming because right now he isn't. He's an average floor shooter, poor free throw and 3-point shooter. His handle is decent not great. He has great upside but has to improve several facets of his game to be a difference maker in the future.
remember when the kyrie to nets rumors first started, it was said it was his people saying he was going to the nets...
Perhaps his people told the nets hey we can convince kyrie to come, and in reality they couldnt..
Brian T. Smith
✔
@ChronBrianSmith
Rockets are expected to pursue Butler and be aggressive in their pursuit. Seen as an ideal fit on both ends of court, and in helping push Rockets to the top of the wide-open West.
I dont think that it's just because Zion and Morant had breakout years. Part of the equation is that, real or imagined, Barrett didnt build on his "consensus #1" reputation. Part of what goes into calling a guy the top pick in a draft is that you are assuming the player continues to grow and develop.
Quote:
shouldnt be anyones only reason, but it should be part of the reason. Are we supposed to ignore everything he did before he got to college? So ignoring the few years before college is normal, but determining his future based off one college season is perfectly fine? We have seen tons of guys who were consensus top 3 picks who bomb in college and dont get picked anywhere near there. The point with Barrett is he was the consensus one, went out and had a very good freshmen year and now is third just cause two guys exploded onto the scene.
I dont think that it's just because Zion and Morant had breakout years. Part of the equation is that, real or imagined, Barrett didnt build on his "consensus #1" reputation. Part of what goes into calling a guy the top pick in a draft is that you are assuming the player continues to grow and develop.
Fully agree. Morant kind of exploded "out of nowhere" but Barrett has "dropped" in people's eyes in decent part due to his actual perceived flaws and not simply "he fell because of the other 2"
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54m54 minutes ago
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Milwaukee Bucks All-Star forward Khris Middleton is declining his $13M player option and will become an unrestricted free agent, his agent, Mike Lindeman of Excel Sports, tells ESPN. Middleton and Bucks are planning to work together toward a new long-term deal, sources said.
trade is to jazz for crowder, allen, korver, picks
Fuck Tyler Herro