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Rehash old news, PS controversial press conference

joeinpa : 6/19/2019 9:17 am
Finally listened to it in it s entirety. As is often the case it is fascinating how people can hear or see the same thing and have entirely different takes :

Of course I refer to the comments about Eli and Jones. You can hear whatever you want to if you take words out of context , and there was much of that.

But there were two comments in or out of context that would be hard to misinterpret.

1. Eli is the starting quarterback
2. The man at every position that gives the New York Giants the
Best chance to win, plays.

Maybe I m simplifying, but to me that means at the moment Eli is the best quarterback, however if at any time during the season Jones gives them the best chance of winning, he plays.

To me that more than implies it is an open competition at all all positions including quarterback.

Wanted to revisit the topic because I was amazed at how defensive some of the host on Giants.com at the suggestion there was a competition at that position.

Personally I m good with Eli getting this season, he s earned it, but competition is good
Eli has already had the benefit of several  
GiantNatty : 6/19/2019 9:43 am : link
"he's earned the right" seasons and those were all lost seasons.

The minute Jones is ready, you play him. This is football - even if it were a sentimental sport (and it's not), Eli is way past any point of playing only out of sentimentality. Anything "owed" to him is completely mitigated by the 23 million dollars they're paying him to be a below average starting QB.
Dittino can be so fkn arrogant  
V.I.G. : 6/19/2019 9:45 am : link
Called everyone an idiot if they read anything into it.

I had the same take as you: Eli is the starter, DJ is progressing to the point where he can play if called upon for whatever reason bc "you never know what happens" [whether injury or benching]
RE: Dittino can be so fkn arrogant  
Brown Recluse : 6/19/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14476521 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
Called everyone an idiot if they read anything into it.

I had the same take as you: Eli is the starter, DJ is progressing to the point where he can play if called upon for whatever reason bc "you never know what happens" [whether injury or benching]


I don't think he's being arrogant. I think he's just sick of all the overreactions to every little thing the Giants do. Can't say I disagree with him. If you read a reporters take on his presser and adopted their view without actually reading or listening to the presser yourself, well...thats pretty idiotic.
RE: Eli has already had the benefit of several  
Johnny5 : 6/19/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14476517 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
"he's earned the right" seasons and those were all lost seasons.

The minute Jones is ready, you play him. This is football - even if it were a sentimental sport (and it's not), Eli is way past any point of playing only out of sentimentality. Anything "owed" to him is completely mitigated by the 23 million dollars they're paying him to be a below average starting QB.

Yeah let's see what he can do with consistent adequate blocking for once in the last 8 years. If he struggles Jones goes in at some point. Myself, I'm betting Eli shuts a lot of people up this year.
RE: Eli has already had the benefit of several  
djstat : 6/19/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14476517 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
"he's earned the right" seasons and those were all lost seasons.

The minute Jones is ready, you play him. This is football - even if it were a sentimental sport (and it's not), Eli is way past any point of playing only out of sentimentality. Anything "owed" to him is completely mitigated by the 23 million dollars they're paying him to be a below average starting QB.
What defines "ready to play?" Jones is ready to play. If coaches believe Eli gives them the best chance to win they will stay with it. Not your timetable of when jones is "ready".
thank you joeinpa  
mittenedman : 6/19/2019 10:14 am : link
I'm in alignment with you: it was pretty clear.

Eli's the starter, Jones is doing everything he can to get ready to play. (Just like every backup on the team.)

There should be zero confusion. It's like the beat writers don't understand that every backup on the team is getting ready to play. They are all here just to get coffee for the starters.
RE: RE: Dittino can be so fkn arrogant  
V.I.G. : 6/19/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14476545 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:

I don't think he's being arrogant. I think he's just sick of all the overreactions to every little thing the Giants do. Can't say I disagree with him. If you read a reporters take on his presser and adopted their view without actually reading or listening to the presser yourself, well...thats pretty idiotic.


Listen, I completely 1000% agree with his point about the nature of media and click bait. But he always comes back to the stance that anyone that disagrees with him doesn't know what they're talking about.

For example,

he was a Heavy Heavy booster for David Webb. "Giants have a plan, all the tools, Eli successor in the long run, yada ya" Cut and lands on a practice squad.

"Anyone who thinks the Giants are trading Odell is an idiot"

On and On
Dottino is the worst  
Big Rick in FL : 6/19/2019 10:26 am : link
He's constantly will talk to people like they are clueless when they disagree with him. In the end he ends up being the person whose wrong. Webb was the future, Odell wasn't getting traded, Giants aren't taking a QB at 6 etc etc.

He's also the biggest Eli homer out there. I love Eli. He had a good career and was awesome off the field. His time has been up for years now. He's lucky we've kept him this long.

Also stop blaming the media. The media didn't create some false narrative. Shurmur wanted this stuff to be out there. He's not dumb and neither are the Giants organization. He could have easily put this stuff to bed. He chose not to multiple times.
re: Dottino on Davis Webb  
regulator : 6/19/2019 10:29 am : link
I don't purport to be an insider, but have some org contacts, and people in the clubhouse WERE legitimately excited about Davis Webb, because he has all the tools, has a great work ethic and is a quality guy. He checked a lot of "Giants" boxes.

Bottom line, he spit the bit last summer and raised concerns about whether he could handle the intangible component of the game... keeping composure, shrugging off mistakes, pressure situations, etc., and he put it on tape. When it came down to it, PS and DG didn't want to go into the season essentially with two rookies behind Eli, including one with some newly-raised question marks. So they chose their draft pick along with the journeyman vet, and tried to shop Webb to no avail.

So, when Dottino gets slammed for being a vocal proponent of Webb, I look at it two ways. Yes, another example of PD cheerleading and being wrong, but his sentiment also reflected that of some decisionmakers in the organization, until training camp and preseason 2018.
Take it FWIW...
you're right, not my time table  
GiantNatty : 6/19/2019 10:49 am : link
never said it was. I'm saying that if and when the coaches think Jones is ready, play him. If he's ready, there's no sense sitting him behind someone who's only getting worse.

I get that people think Eli will shut people up this year because he'll have a better line. I've had hopes for him for several years now (imagine what he can do with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram, etc.) but he just keeps disappointing. I'm not buying it any more. And now that the heir apparent is here, I think it's high time they move on.

With ALL due respect to Eli - I think he's a Hall of Famer and an all-time Giants great, but his days of giving us a chance to win a championship are long gone. Just callin it like I see it.

Shurmur knew what he was saying. If nothing else, he was saying that Jones is closer than some might think and that we could see him sooner rather than later. A little preconditioning of the market...
A lot of Giant fans i talk to think Eli plays all season  
cjac : 6/19/2019 11:30 am : link
I think DJ takes the job from him before mid-season.

His ability to make plays with his legs is going to give the offense a whole different dimension
Lets act like old hens  
Giants : 6/19/2019 12:24 pm : link
and go back over every word. Yeah lets do that please
RE: thank you joeinpa  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/19/2019 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14476558 mittenedman said:
Quote:
I'm in alignment with you: it was pretty clear.

Eli's the starter, Jones is doing everything he can to get ready to play. (Just like every backup on the team.)

There should be zero confusion. It's like the beat writers don't understand that every backup on the team is getting ready to play. They are all here just to get coffee for the starters.


Except that’s not what joeipa said. Actually he said the opposite.

Quote:
Maybe I m simplifying, but to me that means at the moment Eli is the best quarterback, however if at any time during the season Jones gives them the best chance of winning, he plays.
How is that the opposite?  
mittenedman : 6/19/2019 12:54 pm : link
He's the starter now. That's what Shurmur said and that's what he meant. That's what joepa heard and that's what I heard.

Beyond that, we all know Jones will eventually replace Eli. And we, as football fans, should all understand there is nothing the least bit controversial there. The same is true of every position.

There is a starter, and there are backups preparing to play. Obvious as the sky is blue.
Can Eli's vet savvy  
MotownGIANTS : 6/19/2019 1:51 pm : link
hold off Daniel's natural fit for the system?

Can Eli FINALLY learn to throw a decent screen?

Can Eli reset his internal clock back to normal with an improved OL and running game?

Can Daniel make enough plays in training camp, pre-season and practice to warrant a true competition? (Gotta knock the champ out ... (Cant win by decisions))

Can Daniel show that the brass was right that his mental approach is advanced as stated?

Is it true that Daniel is actually better than perceived and his supporting cast actually dragged him down?


Whoever gets the most "Yes" answers will win ...

RE: Lets act like old hens  
joeinpa : 6/19/2019 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14476715 Giants said:
Quote:
and go back over every word. Yeah lets do that please


Why so grumpy? We re just discussing football. I stated in the thread title it was rehashing old news. Just wanted to give my two cents and see if anyone agreed.
The problem with the Shurmur interview is that he opened the door  
TMS : 6/19/2019 2:21 pm : link
for media and so called experts to get grist for for thier columns etc. His concept that the best players play at any position, is not rocket science, but the rule. Why create this media circus unless he sees that as a plus for this young team. I do not. Think before you speak, especially in this town. Do not think he interviews very well, and that is part of the job.
RE: How is that the opposite?  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/19/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14476751 mittenedman said:
Quote:
He's the starter now. That's what Shurmur said and that's what he meant. That's what joepa heard and that's what I heard.

Beyond that, we all know Jones will eventually replace Eli. And we, as football fans, should all understand there is nothing the least bit controversial there. The same is true of every position.

There is a starter, and there are backups preparing to play. Obvious as the sky is blue.


So why are you bashing the beat writers when they had the same take as joeinpa; that the starting QB position is open to whichever player gives Giants the best chance to win?
Thanks  
Thegratefulhead : 6/19/2019 2:23 pm : link
There was someone that kept going into every thread that talked that presser and snipped out the one part of one comment that said "Eli is the starter" and insisted that everyone else was stupid for considering any of the other words spoken by Shurmur. It was quite an emotional and fallacious bunch of posts. Made me laugh.
RE: RE: How is that the opposite?  
mittenedman : 6/20/2019 7:03 am : link
In comment 14476892 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
So why are you bashing the beat writers when they had the same take as joeinpa; that the starting QB position is open to whichever player gives Giants the best chance to win?


Because that is obviously Eli Manning early in the season no matter how well Jones performs.
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