Got to find a way to keep extra DBs... still not sure they will keep four backs so they could carry six WRs (though they did not at the start of last season).
Everyone will be keeping an eye on OBJ in Cleveland
groups. The guy in this group that interests me is Reggie White Jr. He may not be as fast as Coleman or as big as Latimer, but he's got size, speed - and hands. My guess is he'll be on the practice squad come September.
hard to predict how guys like Cody Latimer and Bennie Fowler will do this summer. The odds are they are "just guys" who will have trouble getting open. But Latimer does come down with those circus catches and occasionally gets deep.
Fowler is one of those guys who has the feel of a guy who you are always trying to replace but somehow manages to hang on.
Tate subbing in for OBJ, and the wild card additions of Coleman and Slayton.
The team is going to really depend on Engram's health and consistent production, on the face of it. How comfortable are we with so many eggs in Engram's basket?
I think it's fair to consider Coleman as an addition this year.
Got to find a way to keep extra DBs... still not sure they will keep four backs so they could carry six WRs (though they did not at the start of last season).
Last year they kept seven D-Linemen and nine LB's along with nine DB's. I'd sacrifice one or two of those front seven guys to keep extra DB's.
Certainly possible. Much depends on special teams.
But why I went the way I did was this: "Is Cody Latimer or Bennie Fowler really going to make an impact on the 53-man roster? How many targets would they actually get?"
Certainly possible. Much depends on special teams.
But why I went the way I did was this: "Is Cody Latimer or Bennie Fowler really going to make an impact on the 53-man roster? How many targets would they actually get?"
Don't ask me why, because I have no idea, but for some reason the beats seem to be all in on Cody Latimer making the team.
the final 53. 5 receivers sounds about right. Put the un-drafted guys on the practice squad and hope one of them develops.
I could see the Giants keeping 4 TEs before keeping 6 WRs. As you said, there will be 4 main targets for the O - Shep, Tate, Engram, and Barkley. Why keep a 6th receiver? The 4th TE can play specials and maybe even play in 3 TE sets.
RE: Eric, I think you put up a good guess of the receivers likeley to make
the final 53. 5 receivers sounds about right. Put the un-drafted guys on the practice squad and hope one of them develops.
I could see the Giants keeping 4 TEs before keeping 6 WRs. As you said, there will be 4 main targets for the O - Shep, Tate, Engram, and Barkley. Why keep a 6th receiver? The 4th TE can play specials and maybe even play in 3 TE sets.
That's the problem too... the TEs... I agree, I could very easily see them keeping four.
Barkley is the 6th receiver. Swing routes and wheel routes make him deadly.
Maybe so, but he's not playing special teams.
???
Does the 6th WR always play specials and how often is the 6th WR activated on game day? And Barkley could be a returner - he is excellent. Coleman is a returner.
Barkley is the 6th receiver. Swing routes and wheel routes make him deadly.
Maybe so, but he's not playing special teams.
???
Does the 6th WR always play specials and how often is the 6th WR activated on game day? And Barkley could be a returner - he is excellent. Coleman is a returner.
If you keep a 6th WR, he's definitely going to play special teams.
Funny thing about Coleman...no one ever had him return kicks until he came to the Giants, where he did a pretty good job (I've listed his stats several times). He only returned one punt for the Giants but it did go for 19 yards. I figure KR and PR will be up for grabs this summer, with Peppers in the mix with the WR's.
that if Barkley gets injured, this offense is dead. And that having him return kicks on top of the already huge workload he's in for would be insanity.
review. I'd also go with five WRs. Save the extra WR for another position. We can always keep a WR on the PS, and also have Engram, Ellison, and Barkley. The fifth WR will either be R. Shepard, Latimer, or Fowler.
As previously stated, unless Coleman or Slayton surprise with significant playing time, we are not likely to see many 40+ yard touchdowns on deep routes by this group.
I understand the point of this statement, but I wanted to go back and see the chunk plays from Beckham in 2018. He had 3 plays of 40+ yards on the season, and none of them went for touchdowns. Obviously, the attention and coverage he garners would make it more difficult for a guy like him to get those plays, and also lack of pass protection in first half would make taking those shots more difficult. However, that is the total of 40+ chunk yard plays we achieved with Beckham last year..3.
Beckham has 25 such plays in his 5 year career.
Tate has 24 40+ yard pass plays in 9 years, including 2 last year.
Shep surprisingly has 6 in his career, despite having none his rookie year(he had 3 a year ago, equaling Beckham).
Coleman has 3 in his career(0 last year, and 3 in his first two years in Cleveland).
Bennie Fowler has 2 plays over 40 yards in 4 seasons.
Latimer with 0 plays over 40 yards in 5 seasons.
Evan Engram has 2 such plays in his 2 year career and they both occurred last season.
Barkley had 2 receiving plays over 40 yards last year(in addition to his 7 runs over 40+ yards.
Just curious what he actually produced last year from that standpoint, also wanted to see what the current crop flashed in that regard during their careers.
Just curious what he actually produced last year from that standpoint, also wanted to see what the current crop flashed in that regard during their careers.
I have visions of Barkley catching a screen pass with Zeitler, Tate, and Shepard making downfield blocks for 50 yard touchdowns.
RE: Everyone will be keeping an eye on OBJ in Cleveland
Just curious what he actually produced last year from that standpoint, also wanted to see what the current crop flashed in that regard during their careers.
I have visions of Barkley catching a screen pass with Zeitler, Tate, and Shepard making downfield blocks for 50 yard touchdowns.
My guess is - if things work out the way PS would like them to - Barkley won't be the only one catching screens and breaking them for sizable gains. Whoever the #2 back is, Penny, Engram, Tate, and Coleman or Slayton will also be targeted in the screen and double screen game in PS's offense. Barkley is very useful as an illusion, as well as our best threat with the rock in his hands.
Just curious what he actually produced last year from that standpoint, also wanted to see what the current crop flashed in that regard during their careers.
Odell has lost a step in straight line speed, and it's highly unlikely he will regain it. It was a good time to sell.
RE: It could be 5 or 6 wideouts depending in part on other position
groups. The guy in this group that interests me is Reggie White Jr. He may not be as fast as Coleman or as big as Latimer, but he's got size, speed - and hands. My guess is he'll be on the practice squad come September.
Huge stretch for White Jr to do more then make the practice squad.
RE: RE: Eric, I think you put up a good guess of the receivers likeley to make
the final 53. 5 receivers sounds about right. Put the un-drafted guys on the practice squad and hope one of them develops.
I could see the Giants keeping 4 TEs before keeping 6 WRs. As you said, there will be 4 main targets for the O - Shep, Tate, Engram, and Barkley. Why keep a 6th receiver? The 4th TE can play specials and maybe even play in 3 TE sets.
That's the problem too... the TEs... I agree, I could very easily see them keeping four.
If healthy they should keep all 4 and move towards 12 personal vs. 11 personal as their main formation.
this is the year we see the promise Engram came with when he was drafted.
Eric Ebron looked like a bust until the last two years and I see engram having a similar bump in his production. He really looked like he was getting it the last half of the season. He's got to stay healthy though.
Is that since they usually activate 5 on the 46 man roster if one WR gets nicked and they have only 4 healthy WR they have to alter the 46 man roster and that effects ST as well as the WR rotation.
Coleman either looks like the college WR and is not even on the bubble (he was that explosive) or he is the easiest cut because of the economics of a 4th year pro as a development player.
I should mention that our other UFA WR is a much better player than Reggie White. Unfortunate, whatever held him out of OTAs. I expect that realistically they are battling for a single PS slot, unless we carry only 5 WRs. I believe that Slayton has already made the roster, and would have do something to unmake it.
Shep, Tate, Latimar, Slayton and Coleman are staples. If Coleman starts showing no hands I'm sure he will be first one out. I think Slayton with his speed can KR/PR
Tate subbing in for OBJ, and the wild card additions of Coleman and Slayton.
The team is going to really depend on Engram's health and consistent production, on the face of it. How comfortable are we with so many eggs in Engram's basket?
If only his hands were more basket-like...
I go back to the OL, if it allows an extra second of protection
Nothing splashy about Shepard and Tate, but both very reliable. Very splashy but less reliable Coleman and the drafted rookie....will have time to run deep.
The lack deep passes was not because of the wrs...but the OL and possibly Eli`s arm
That's pretty stupid. He missed one game in 2017, and last year he missed five - finishing the season playing four games in a row, then missing two, then playing another four games in a row.
For those guys, it might be the difference between making and missing the cut. And since gunners dress, making the team in their case means actually playing. I take the point that they won't see many targets, but the team still needs an extra WR or two on game day. For all of Engram's WR-like qualities, he won't get enough practice snaps to run the full route tree if he has to fill in for an injured wideout.
neither Cody Latimer nor Russel Shepard are going to get any better than their woeful records. Cody and Russell have demonstrated that they are deadwood. Find replacements for them. If the replacements are no good, we are no worse off than before.
It is frightening to think that there is nobody who can beat them out at the moment. Clearly, neither gets in a game unless it is to give a breather to a starter.
5 WRs? I'd prefer only 4 WRs if Nos. 5 and 6 are Latimer and R. Shepard. An extra TE in the formation who can take advantage of a smaller defender gives us more firepower and better pass blocking than aging WRs who in 5 or 6 seasons have not shown the ability to get open consistently or make big plays.
As for the 5th & 6th WRs being needed on special teams, I'd prefer adding special teams aces who could fill in at WR. That way, we would at least have an NFL quality guy at one of his positions (ST) rather than a mediocre guy at both of his positions (ST & WR).
Got to find a way to keep extra DBs... still not sure they will keep four backs so they could carry six WRs (though they did not at the start of last season).
Hopefully Tate has something left in the tank or someone takes a significant next step.
Also, you got to assume that most of these guys they will cut won't be picked up by other teams. So they're out there if injuries strike.
Fowler is one of those guys who has the feel of a guy who you are always trying to replace but somehow manages to hang on.
The team is going to really depend on Engram's health and consistent production, on the face of it. How comfortable are we with so many eggs in Engram's basket?
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My guess is six.
Got to find a way to keep extra DBs... still not sure they will keep four backs so they could carry six WRs (though they did not at the start of last season).
Last year they kept seven D-Linemen and nine LB's along with nine DB's. I'd sacrifice one or two of those front seven guys to keep extra DB's.
But why I went the way I did was this: "Is Cody Latimer or Bennie Fowler really going to make an impact on the 53-man roster? How many targets would they actually get?"
But why I went the way I did was this: "Is Cody Latimer or Bennie Fowler really going to make an impact on the 53-man roster? How many targets would they actually get?"
Don't ask me why, because I have no idea, but for some reason the beats seem to be all in on Cody Latimer making the team.
Latimer probably sticks as well, and for some reason Manning seems to like Benny Fowler.
Reggie White Jr is a guy who could end up on the practice squad this season and surprise in a year or two (another Miles Austin would be nice).
Latimer probably sticks as well, and for some reason Manning seems to like Benny Fowler.
Reggie White Jr is a guy who could end up on the practice squad this season and surprise in a year or two (another Miles Austin would be nice).
I could see the Giants keeping 4 TEs before keeping 6 WRs. As you said, there will be 4 main targets for the O - Shep, Tate, Engram, and Barkley. Why keep a 6th receiver? The 4th TE can play specials and maybe even play in 3 TE sets.
I could see the Giants keeping 4 TEs before keeping 6 WRs. As you said, there will be 4 main targets for the O - Shep, Tate, Engram, and Barkley. Why keep a 6th receiver? The 4th TE can play specials and maybe even play in 3 TE sets.
That's the problem too... the TEs... I agree, I could very easily see them keeping four.
Maybe so, but he's not playing special teams.
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Barkley is the 6th receiver. Swing routes and wheel routes make him deadly.
Maybe so, but he's not playing special teams.
???
Does the 6th WR always play specials and how often is the 6th WR activated on game day? And Barkley could be a returner - he is excellent. Coleman is a returner.
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In comment 14476717 section125 said:
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Barkley is the 6th receiver. Swing routes and wheel routes make him deadly.
Maybe so, but he's not playing special teams.
???
Does the 6th WR always play specials and how often is the 6th WR activated on game day? And Barkley could be a returner - he is excellent. Coleman is a returner.
If you keep a 6th WR, he's definitely going to play special teams.
Funny thing about Coleman...no one ever had him return kicks until he came to the Giants, where he did a pretty good job (I've listed his stats several times). He only returned one punt for the Giants but it did go for 19 yards. I figure KR and PR will be up for grabs this summer, with Peppers in the mix with the WR's.
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Barkley is the 6th receiver. Swing routes and wheel routes make him deadly.
Maybe so, but he's not playing special teams.
How can you be sure? Have you ever seen Barkley return kickoffs?
Ist touch vs Indiana 2017 Barkley KR TD - ( New Window )
As previously stated, unless Coleman or Slayton surprise with significant playing time, we are not likely to see many 40+ yard touchdowns on deep routes by this group.
I understand the point of this statement, but I wanted to go back and see the chunk plays from Beckham in 2018. He had 3 plays of 40+ yards on the season, and none of them went for touchdowns. Obviously, the attention and coverage he garners would make it more difficult for a guy like him to get those plays, and also lack of pass protection in first half would make taking those shots more difficult. However, that is the total of 40+ chunk yard plays we achieved with Beckham last year..3.
Beckham has 25 such plays in his 5 year career.
Tate has 24 40+ yard pass plays in 9 years, including 2 last year.
Shep surprisingly has 6 in his career, despite having none his rookie year(he had 3 a year ago, equaling Beckham).
Coleman has 3 in his career(0 last year, and 3 in his first two years in Cleveland).
Bennie Fowler has 2 plays over 40 yards in 4 seasons.
Latimer with 0 plays over 40 yards in 5 seasons.
Evan Engram has 2 such plays in his 2 year career and they both occurred last season.
Barkley had 2 receiving plays over 40 yards last year(in addition to his 7 runs over 40+ yards.
I have visions of Barkley catching a screen pass with Zeitler, Tate, and Shepard making downfield blocks for 50 yard touchdowns.
Hopefully Tate has something left in the tank or someone takes a significant next step.
I would bet some money that obj is addition by subtraction and our passing game improves this year.
If Slayton is as good as the coaches say, I'm actually quasi- excited by our wr group.
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Just curious what he actually produced last year from that standpoint, also wanted to see what the current crop flashed in that regard during their careers.
I have visions of Barkley catching a screen pass with Zeitler, Tate, and Shepard making downfield blocks for 50 yard touchdowns.
My guess is - if things work out the way PS would like them to - Barkley won't be the only one catching screens and breaking them for sizable gains. Whoever the #2 back is, Penny, Engram, Tate, and Coleman or Slayton will also be targeted in the screen and double screen game in PS's offense. Barkley is very useful as an illusion, as well as our best threat with the rock in his hands.
And next to Tom Brady, he's very, very good.
At a high pass protection level ....
Next to Tom Brady, El's still very, very good. DJ, he flashed at Duke, don't know if can do it in the NFL.
I'm very sure both Slayton & Coleman have the speed to get behind most defenses; that's Gilbride/Coughlin football.
Eli has morphed into a dink-and-dunk QB, by necessity (but he's not very good at it). He's a classic stand-and-deliver type.
The safe fall-back is Sterling Shepard & Golden Tate
(not a bad one) but not one that can scare the crap out of anybody.
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the final 53. 5 receivers sounds about right. Put the un-drafted guys on the practice squad and hope one of them develops.
I could see the Giants keeping 4 TEs before keeping 6 WRs. As you said, there will be 4 main targets for the O - Shep, Tate, Engram, and Barkley. Why keep a 6th receiver? The 4th TE can play specials and maybe even play in 3 TE sets.
That's the problem too... the TEs... I agree, I could very easily see them keeping four.
Eric Ebron looked like a bust until the last two years and I see engram having a similar bump in his production. He really looked like he was getting it the last half of the season. He's got to stay healthy though.
I should mention that our other UFA WR is a much better player than Reggie White. Unfortunate, whatever held him out of OTAs. I expect that realistically they are battling for a single PS slot, unless we carry only 5 WRs. I believe that Slayton has already made the roster, and would have do something to unmake it.
The team is going to really depend on Engram's health and consistent production, on the face of it. How comfortable are we with so many eggs in Engram's basket?
If only his hands were more basket-like...
Nothing splashy about Shepard and Tate, but both very reliable. Very splashy but less reliable Coleman and the drafted rookie....will have time to run deep.
The lack deep passes was not because of the wrs...but the OL and possibly Eli`s arm
I think in the end they keep 5, unless someone really lights it up on specials.
Shepard, Tate, Slayton and two others.
That's pretty stupid. He missed one game in 2017, and last year he missed five - finishing the season playing four games in a row, then missing two, then playing another four games in a row.
It is frightening to think that there is nobody who can beat them out at the moment. Clearly, neither gets in a game unless it is to give a breather to a starter.
5 WRs? I'd prefer only 4 WRs if Nos. 5 and 6 are Latimer and R. Shepard. An extra TE in the formation who can take advantage of a smaller defender gives us more firepower and better pass blocking than aging WRs who in 5 or 6 seasons have not shown the ability to get open consistently or make big plays.
As for the 5th & 6th WRs being needed on special teams, I'd prefer adding special teams aces who could fill in at WR. That way, we would at least have an NFL quality guy at one of his positions (ST) rather than a mediocre guy at both of his positions (ST & WR).