NFT: NBA Draft Prospect Discussion

In comment 14477352 Carl in CT said:

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That the timberwolves is trying to rid themselves of.

Wiggins really? I guess I haven't seen him a ton, but would think he is WAY softer, no post game, no D. I'd guess AW was a better shooter. No idea about his handle, but guys at RJs size tend not to have that handle. That's why I think of ETurner on day 1, but with a lot of ceiling to a PGeorge type (that's the VERY high end tho)

In comment 14477319 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Is he elite at anything

This is what i circle back to with him. you have to be elite at something to be a superstar. Whats his elite trait?

He had multiple #1 appearances on ESPN's top ten plays. There are valid criticisms of him but i really don't get your knock on his athleticism. Look up his dunks against Eastern Illinois and Marquette. He posted the first triple double in the tournament since Draymond Green. First player to average a double double since they started recording assists in 83. His dad actually won a state title with Ray Allen, he's been working out with him. and the OVC had good ball this year. Belmont was a good team, Dylan Windler is a phenomenal player for them. He is a young Joe Ingles. 6'7 lefty with a lightning quick release, decent vision as well. Averaged 42-43% on his threes the last two years. Probably a 2nd round pick, i want the Nets to draft him. He's going to be a good bench player. Put up 35 and 10 on Maryland. Another under recruited guy out of basketball heaven, Indiana.

Ja Morant Alabama dunk - ( New Window )

Jayson Tatum before the draft, now two years later he’s widely considered one of the most promising young players in the league. I remember a lot of mock drafts had him falling to 5, and the main concerns were that he “doesn’t have an elite skill”, “isn’t an athlete” “doesn’t contribute much if he’s not scoring”

Take a look at this scouting report of Tatum and tell me it doesn’t sound exactly like how people are describing Barrett now:

Strengths: Tatum possesses one of the most NBA-ready skill sets in the draft, with some comfort scoring at all levels. He’s able to create space for himself and make difficult shots when necessary, a necessity for most elite scorers in the league. He has the size to in theory play both forward positions, and the length to be a passable defender with some added work. He’s quick enough to attack bigger defenders and big enough to post up smaller ones. Tatum is also a solid rebounder. He enters the league with a solid offensive repertoire and has the potential to lead a team in scoring one day.

Weaknesses: Although Tatum’s skill set is impressive, he’s not an athlete of the highest tier, which makes it tougher to draw a direct through-line to NBA success. Tatum can fall in love with his mid-range shot at times and occasionally will take a tough look when he doesn’t need to. He’s developing as a passer but isn’t a playmaker with the ball in his hands, and if he doesn’t work on defense, it’s hard to see how he’ll impact the game when he isn’t shooting the ball. Tatum will have to expand his game or risk being branded a one-dimensional scoring specialist.
Tatum Scouting Report - ( New Window )

In comment 14477352 Carl in CT said:

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That the timberwolves is trying to rid themselves of.

Wiggins problem isn’t a lack of talent. He’s soft, unintelligent, and by all accounts lazy and unwilling to put the work in. Barrett by all accounts is the complete opposite mentally.

Tell me i'm not the only seeing Joe Ingles in his game. Not the quickest, but a great cutter and surprisingly good at the rim.
Dylan Windler Belmont - ( New Window )

In comment 14477395 GiantGrit said:

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He had multiple #1 appearances on ESPN's top ten plays. There are valid criticisms of him but i really don't get your knock on his athleticism. Look up his dunks against Eastern Illinois and Marquette. He posted the first triple double in the tournament since Draymond Green. First player to average a double double since they started recording assists in 83. His dad actually won a state title with Ray Allen, he's been working out with him. and the OVC had good ball this year

Even that dunk clip. 2 defenders go matador, the 2 bigs cower for a wide open rim. Exactly what happens on so many of his drives. That's NOT going to happen vs playoff teams, if not most NBA teams. And that dunk was length not explosion / ups. It reminds me of Melo, athletic / quick but not explosive. It scares me because he will lose much of that adv given NBA competition where he's far from the #1 athlete. And why I think of Ish Smith (again, as the floor). Much of his game will require significant adjustment, even his elite passing...

I know I'm in the minority re: athleticism. Still people seem to comp OVC players and not to NBA. Or yours comp: ESPN top 10s (mostly vs OVC), dunk highlights, a father who played D1, or a few decent OVC players. I'd not compare to M St or UConn either. There are some OVC prospects but not many - they obv aren't as good as a conference. So touting his triple double, sure it's an achievement - while many shit on RW in the NBA AVERAGING it for 2-3 years as inefficient, a non-winner. Yet JM would be lucky to be that good. None of that sounds like a lock, nor do I see why even if Ja hits his ceiling he's better or more likely to W really

Also RJB would have TORN UP the OVC. I like Windler (love Ingles), but he would have gotten schooled. I don't even know how a guy like Cowart exists as a starter. There's few league wide you could even throw at him of comparable size, much less skill. That's JM's daily competition. Again, why I find the concern for RJ and the certainty of JM kind of backwards

Good debate anyway!

Russ or a young Rose, but Morant is on the next level. His head is rim level on many dunks. DSJ surprises me with how little dribble drive game he has. When he is not down hill he can’t break people down at all. Morant won’t have that problem. His game will translate.

It’s hard to say if Barrett will be Evan Turner or Brandon Roy, but Andrew Wiggins he is not. More than his skills or athleticism, his drive/competitiveness/alpha mentality will make him successful on the next level. To say his skills won’t develop at age 18 is silly, in fact they are elite for his age. For some reason people judge him as if he is 6-4, he is a legit 6-7. I do think his athleticism will play up in the NBA, like Devin Booker and James Harden.

but I see what I see in game. So no c'mon!

Even that Bama dunk, it wasn't a standout athletic feat in the NBA, nor great move, just a hard dunk vs awful D. Many of his highlights look a lot like that. That's why my list of similar / better NBA Gs as athletes is relevant. We all can name 8-10 guys just off the top on his level (tier 1, explosive, whatever label). As you agreed, there are those who are clearly better too. So uber-athlete in general, sure. Vs the NBA? It's a long enough list to question how quick he makes the transition. In the OVC he was athlete #1 hands down. In the NBA, not close to that. And without the same athletic superiority what happens?

Then what about superior Gs, regardless of athleticism? Lowry, Conley, Shroeder, Brogdan, Bledsoe, Hill or any number of PGs will be tough on both ends til he develops. A few years out maybe. But why is that a lock in comparison to RJB as a prospect?

I'll be happy to admit either I missed something or he's improving as we go (I don't care, I like good bball!), but I think the hype for him excessive on their own. Then especially comparing to RJB when half the arguments are more relevant to Morant

slasher, etc...fit the SG position a bit more. Not sure I'd put Roy & Turner in the same spot, tho it's been a long time since he played

Turner I love the comp. IMO this is Barrett basically today (yes we'll see!). Not a lot of range, nor a plus athlete, but long, fast enough, decent passer, decent post game (esp for 2019), enough handle to play pt-fwd or run the O off the bench, decent defender even tho not elite at anything. Personally while not a top player, IMO quite underappreciated across the league. Barrett is likely a bit tougher on the inside, and much more of a scorer & rim attacker I believe, if not better at many of those skills

And also why I like the PGeorge as the top side. Not elite at anything again (esp early career). But he is a phenomenal player, fits many situations (top dog, facilitator, D / rebounding too), and even if not elite at anything the versatility makes a fantastic top 10 player. RJB would be lucky to get there of course, but his game today is already kind of a lesser version of the same

This is a kid who wants to and believes that he will be great. To be a star in the NBA you need that quality.

Nitilkina is the complete opposite, a kid who seemed insecure almost all the time, and his play showed that. How he played so well in Europe and never showed any growth here amazed me. Sure, injuries didn't help, but lack of self confidence seemed to be an even greater deficiency.

press for the number 2 pick to jump in front of us for Barrett. Either way, I will be happy.

to comp games. But obviously it's a huge factor

Fwiw it's another question on JM - picks a lower conference, hands down the best athlete, trying to make the NBA and still no effort on D or off the ball? I don't get PGs that don't move off the ball. It can speak to low bball IQ, if not just the concerning low effort. A bad trait for a ball dominant player. Something RJB already does well in spite of a similar critique

Again just IMO, but still points to possible overhype if not just legit risks on JM that are being ignored for some reason

Tho I'm hand down RJB, I'll love rooting for the best passer we've had since who knows when, and hope he does develop whether my scouting is accurate or not! This time tomorrow we will know :)

Hopefully he can shoot the 3 a lot better then him eventually. Also hope he raises he FT% as well.

Actually, if he were to 'just get better at the skills he has' if you will, he's a bigger DeRozan. That's a better direct comp than PG today, tho I still see that as his ideal ceiling

I just always thought of DD as an SG, while Barrett an F