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NFT: Advice needed...

smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 1:26 pm
Have an employee that has had some addiction problems and maturity issues. Awesome worker and is really trying to straighten out his life. He's 36, still lives at home and needs transportation to work. Debating whether to by him a 2500.00 dollars or less vehicle and take out of his bonus and weekly pay till paid off. I realize it may be a bad to keep title in my name because of possible legal issues if there is an accident. How do I still keep control? If he begins using it to buy things he shouldnt and doesn't stay on the straight how can I park it?
have you told the worker about this yet  
Giantsfan79 : 6/19/2019 1:32 pm : link
I'd suggest you bring him into the loop rather than surprise him. Give him a sense of ownership in the decision instead of giving him a gift. Also consider some arrangement where if he meets goals or something you'll accelerate his ability to get the car. That way he's got to put something in before getting the reward which may help keep him grounded and focused better. And you aren't out the full cost of the auto.
I don't have any advice  
fivehead : 6/19/2019 1:33 pm : link
but it seems that you have a kind heart. There is hope for this world.
no  
Heisenberg : 6/19/2019 1:34 pm : link
just no
What kind of work are you  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/19/2019 1:35 pm : link
in?
NO. Don't take on that risk.  
x meadowlander : 6/19/2019 1:35 pm : link
You already said maturity and substance abuse issues?

What line of work are you in that you could keep an employee like that?

Do you own the business?
IMO an immature person with substance abuse problems  
Marty in Albany : 6/19/2019 1:36 pm : link
should be driving as little as possible. Forgetting about legal liability, think how you would feel if there were an accident and an injury.
Have you considered  
Gmanfandan : 6/19/2019 1:37 pm : link
Renting him a car or getting him an Uber account? It may be a little more costly but more control

You're doing the right thing by trying to help him AND you get to keep a good employee (not easy to find)
RE: NO. Don't take on that risk.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/19/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14476803 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
You already said maturity and substance abuse issues?

What line of work are you in that you could keep an employee like that?

Do you own the business?


The government gives companies big tax breaks to take on employees like that just an FYI.

" keep title in my name because of possible legal issues "  
x meadowlander : 6/19/2019 1:37 pm : link
Your own decision making would make me concerned if YOU were my employee, never mind the bloke you're trying to help.
also  
Giantsfan79 : 6/19/2019 1:37 pm : link
you can register the car under your business and allow him to drive it as an employee. You can get extra insurance and/or make him sign agreements on what he can/can't do with the car. Should he run into problems you could immediately take the car back.
Is this serious?  
jcn56 : 6/19/2019 1:38 pm : link
Because although well intentioned, this is an extremely bad idea.
RE: also  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/19/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14476808 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
you can register the car under your business and allow him to drive it as an employee. You can get extra insurance and/or make him sign agreements on what he can/can't do with the car. Should he run into problems you could immediately take the car back.


If he were to do that, he would need to make sure the guy has a valid license, and no DUI's on his background. The insurance is crazy expensive for employers to insure a vehicle with points or DUI's on their license.
RE: Is this serious?  
Danny Kanell : 6/19/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14476809 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Because although well intentioned, this is an extremely bad idea.


+1
RE: RE: also  
Giantsfan79 : 6/19/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14476813 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14476808 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


you can register the car under your business and allow him to drive it as an employee. You can get extra insurance and/or make him sign agreements on what he can/can't do with the car. Should he run into problems you could immediately take the car back.



If he were to do that, he would need to make sure the guy has a valid license, and no DUI's on his background. The insurance is crazy expensive for employers to insure a vehicle with points or DUI's on their license.


Agreed there would be extra issues. But the OP was looking for a way to quickly take back the car if something went wrong and my suggestion would accomplish that goal.
He obviously already has the ability to get to work.  
WideRight : 6/19/2019 1:42 pm : link

So what problem are you trying to solve?

Focus on helping him solve his addiction problem before anything else. And unfortunatley an enabling employer may be part of the problem.
RE: RE: RE: also  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/19/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14476820 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 14476813 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14476808 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


you can register the car under your business and allow him to drive it as an employee. You can get extra insurance and/or make him sign agreements on what he can/can't do with the car. Should he run into problems you could immediately take the car back.



If he were to do that, he would need to make sure the guy has a valid license, and no DUI's on his background. The insurance is crazy expensive for employers to insure a vehicle with points or DUI's on their license.



Agreed there would be extra issues. But the OP was looking for a way to quickly take back the car if something went wrong and my suggestion would accomplish that goal.


He could simply gift the vehicle to him and have him "Pay " him $1 dollar and sign the title over to him. Avoiding the guy from being taxed out the wazoo.

I'm feeling like he wants to give him a work vehicle under the company name, but that's not a good idea.
A talented 36 year old who doesn't have $2500 for a vehicle...  
Dan in the Springs : 6/19/2019 2:07 pm : link
doesn't just have addiction and maturity issues. They have budgeting issues, most likely spending issues.

The best way to help this guy is to get him a bus pass and ask if he wants financial counseling. You could provide that. There are even some free services/classes and you could give him time off to attend.

A talented guy should be able to put together $2500 in a short enough period of time in today's economy if they get their budget in order. They might have to make some sacrifices but that's what budgeting is all about.

If your true goal is to help him, this is the best advice I can offer.
RE: IMO an immature person with substance abuse problems  
Bill in Del : 6/19/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14476804 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
should be driving as little as possible. Forgetting about legal liability, think how you would feel if there were an accident and an injury.


What he said....and as mentioned buy him a bus pass instead or an Uber / Lyft gift card, if there is such a thing.
If you want to gift him a car go ahead  
JerseyCityJoe : 6/19/2019 2:13 pm : link
But don't put any restrictions on him or be bent if he buys things you don't approve. I think its a bad idea however because you seem to have expectations that he might not live up to and your "gift" then becomes an irritant of your own making.
No, no, no...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/19/2019 2:14 pm : link
Very considerate/generous of you, but I wouldn't do it @ all.
It is a kind sentiment, but a bad idea for many reasons  
Mike from Ohio : 6/19/2019 2:33 pm : link
One poster suggested setting up an uber account for him. Not sure how to do that without linking to your credit card, but if you can somehow prepay amounts on that you likely keep him, yourself, and other drivers/pedestrians safe while helping him get to work.
RE: NO. Don't take on that risk.  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14476803 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
You already said maturity and substance abuse issues?

What line of work are you in that you could keep an employee like that?

Do you own the business?


I own a printing and sign company. I have had my own bout with dependancy during this nationwide opiate crisis. Doctor over medicated and now rely on natural remedies.
RE: Is this serious?  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14476809 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Because although well intentioned, this is an extremely bad idea.

Exactly why I hesitate
RE: If you want to gift him a car go ahead  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14476879 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
But don't put any restrictions on him or be bent if he buys things you don't approve. I think its a bad idea however because you seem to have expectations that he might not live up to and your "gift" then becomes an irritant of your own making.


Good point
RE: He obviously already has the ability to get to work.  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14476822 WideRight said:
Quote:

So what problem are you trying to solve?

Focus on helping him solve his addiction problem before anything else. And unfortunatley an enabling employer may be part of the problem.


I don't think you can "solve" an addiction problem. He has come a long way with support. Thanks for advice
RE:  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14476807 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
Your own decision making would make me concerned if YOU were my employee, never mind the bloke you're trying to help.


Pretty judgemental without knowing facts. I am his boss and good workers are much harder to find then people realize.
RE: no  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14476798 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
just no


Don't people need a second or third chance?
RE: RE: no  
Heisenberg : 6/19/2019 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14476990 smorgan741 said:
Quote:
In comment 14476798 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


just no



Don't people need a second or third chance?


Sure, people do. However, if you're not sure it's a good idea, then it's probably a bad idea. Buy him a car and keep it in your name? you're liable for how it's used. You need to insure it and assume responsibility. If you own a business, that's a terrible idea. You want to buy him a beater, and hand it over to him with no strings attached? Ok, fine. Let him have it, let him insure it and let him be responsible. But it sounds like you're signing up to manage what he's buying and what he's not and that's just an idea that is likely to blow up in your face. You can't put yourself in the position where you're not just trying to manage him on the job but also off the job.

The hard truth about addiction is that folks either fix themselves or they don't.
When  
mitch300 : 6/19/2019 3:34 pm : link
You mentioned maturity issues, I thought he was in his early mid twenties. 36 and still lives at home. Did he ever live on his own and just come upon hard times and had to move back in with his parents.
It's commendable that you want to do this  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/19/2019 3:35 pm : link
gesture.

The people that are killing you over it are just thinking about it from one perspective. Bottom line, it's your money and you can do what you want with it.

I mean how many rich kids, get hooked on drugs, and get cars and 1000 chances.

This could go a long way for your worker, but you can only lead someone so far, and the rest is on them to continue to grow the right way.

If you are gifting this to him, then just let it be that. You won't be responsible if the car is in his name. If your taking it out of his bonus I would definitely talk to him about it, because he might rely more on that then you would think, unless this is the first time and he has no idea he is getting one.
A Bicycle is the way to go  
gtt350 : 6/19/2019 3:39 pm : link
.
Agree with many. Want to say that you seem like a good guy,  
Beezer : 6/19/2019 3:42 pm : link
and excellent on you for wanting to help him in such a monumental way.

That said, my advice is to not buy him a car, even if it's in your name.
RE: RE:  
x meadowlander : 6/19/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14476987 smorgan741 said:
Quote:
In comment 14476807 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


Your own decision making would make me concerned if YOU were my employee, never mind the bloke you're trying to help.



Pretty judgemental without knowing facts. I am his boss and good workers are much harder to find then people realize.
No, it was properly judgemental given the info I had.

In your situation, it may well be worth your money to help the kid out, but don't put yourself at risk over it.

Life has a funny way of treating you when you bend over and drop trou'.
RE: RE: RE:  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 4:45 pm : link
In comment 14477035 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14476987 smorgan741 said:


Quote:


In comment 14476807 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


Your own decision making would make me concerned if YOU were my employee, never mind the bloke you're trying to help.



Pretty judgemental without knowing facts. I am his boss and good workers are much harder to find then people realize.

No, it was properly judgemental given the info I had.

In your situation, it may well be worth your money to help the kid out, but don't put yourself at risk over it.

Life has a funny way of treating you when you bend over and drop trou'.

I agree and thanks for input. I'm really impressed and find it heart warming with the amount of good sound advice I'm getting. It reaffirms my belief that most people are good and caring. It's just a small amount of bad people. This site is awesome and I am happy to be a part of it.
RE: Agree with many. Want to say that you seem like a good guy,  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14477028 Beezer said:
Quote:
and excellent on you for wanting to help him in such a monumental way.

That said, my advice is to not buy him a car, even if it's in your name.

I'm really starting to lean towards not doing it. My gut tells me no and my heart says yes. Any time in the last 34 years of being in business and went against my gut feeling I have paid badly for it. I think my biggest concern as some have alluded to is how dangerous it could be for him and the public. I would never forgive myself if someone got hurt or killed.
RE: Agree with many. Want to say that you seem like a good guy,  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 4:51 pm : link
In comment 14477028 Beezer said:
Quote:
and excellent on you for wanting to help him in such a monumental way.

That said, my advice is to not buy him a car, even if it's in your name.


Thanks. I believe you are right.
RE: A Bicycle is the way to go  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14477023 gtt350 said:
Quote:
.

Good idea!
RE: IMO an immature person with substance abuse problems  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14476804 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
should be driving as little as possible. Forgetting about legal liability, think how you would feel if there were an accident and an injury.

Your 100% correct and thus my hesitation. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to help me.


RE: It's commendable that you want to do this  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14477014 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
gesture.

The people that are killing you over it are just thinking about it from one perspective. Bottom line, it's your money and you can do what you want with it.

I mean how many rich kids, get hooked on drugs, and get cars and 1000 chances.

This could go a long way for your worker, but you can only lead someone so far, and the rest is on them to continue to grow the right way.

If you are gifting this to him, then just let it be that. You won't be responsible if the car is in his name. If your taking it out of his bonus I would definitely talk to him about it, because he might rely more on that then you would think, unless this is the first time and he has no idea he is getting one.


That is definitely some sound advice.
Thanks!
I know you didn't acknowledge the budget comment I made earlier...  
Dan in the Springs : 6/19/2019 5:05 pm : link
and I think it's great that you want to help someone, but really the best help you can give someone in this situation is to help them learn to live on a budget.

If this were my own son, I would definitely not want to solve his transportation problem at that age by buying him a car. Not because I love him, but because it doesn't fix the problem.

Now your relationship with him (boss/employee) makes it inappropriate for you to lecture him about spending his money. However, since he's told you that he's having trouble getting the money together to buy a beater car, he's openly discussing his personal finances with you and you owe it to him to have a real honest conversation about budgeting. You probably shouldn't do it yourself, but you should suggest helping him get the kind of financial counseling that he needs to fix this.

Then you help him find the most cost effective way to solve his transportation issues. That may even mean buying a beater car for him, but probably there are better ways to do that. Either way, the financial support you give him has a chance to really help dig himself out of the hole he is in.

I believe a lot in giving a person multiple chances, but root cause has to be considered.
Don't gift him a car...  
bradshaw44 : 6/19/2019 5:15 pm : link
Is it your business? Make it a company car that way he can't just sell it or use it for improper things without your ability to take it from him.

Also what is it you do? And what position is he?  
ChaChing : 6/19/2019 5:20 pm : link
Let me know if you have an opening! I ain't never had budgeting or maturity issues, much less a boss who even thought on my behalf for a moment

Tho agreed, you probably are safer 'not caring' so much, as commendable as it is (and as much as I hate telling you not to do it)

RE: I know you didn't acknowledge the budget comment I made earlier...  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14477180 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
and I think it's great that you want to help someone, but really the best help you can give someone in this situation is to help them learn to live on a budget.

If this were my own son, I would definitely not want to solve his transportation problem at that age by buying him a car. Not because I love him, but because it doesn't fix the problem.

Now your relationship with him (boss/employee) makes it inappropriate for you to lecture him about spending his money. However, since he's told you that he's having trouble getting the money together to buy a beater car, he's openly discussing his personal finances with you and you owe it to him to have a real honest conversation about budgeting. You probably shouldn't do it yourself, but you should suggest helping him get the kind of financial counseling that he needs to fix this.

Then you help him find the most cost effective way to solve his transportation issues. That may even mean buying a beater car for him, but probably there are better ways to do that. Either way, the financial support you give him has a chance to really help dig himself out of the hole he is in.

I believe a lot in giving a person multiple chances, but root cause has to be considered.

Im sorry for not replying to your comment, I agree 100%. When I read it it made me think of this:
“You give a poor man a fish and you feed him for a day. You teach him to fish and you give him an occupation that will feed him for a lifetime.”
Thanks for the wise comment.
Are they in treatment for the addiction?  
DonQuixote : 6/19/2019 5:57 pm : link
You might be the most help if you our your business can help address some of the underlying issues through the health care system. Treatment options for addiction are rare, outside of jail of course, and you might change someone’s life.
RE: Also what is it you do? And what position is he?  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14477194 ChaChing said:
Quote:
Let me know if you have an opening! I ain't never had budgeting or maturity issues, much less a boss who even thought on my behalf for a moment

Tho agreed, you probably are safer 'not caring' so much, as commendable as it is (and as much as I hate telling you not to do it)

lol, If your in Myrtle Beach,SC drop on by. In all seriousness being a transplanted New Yorker here in the south the hardest workers are generally from up north. Not to disrespect my southern friends but they seem far more laid back. It's definitely a different mindset. Maybe it's not such a bad thing.
RE: Are they in treatment for the addiction?  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14477229 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
You might be the most help if you our your business can help address some of the underlying issues through the health care system. Treatment options for addiction are rare, outside of jail of course, and you might change someone’s life.

It definitely has been rewarding to see his improvement. Thanks for the reply, I think you may be right.
RE: Don't gift him a car...  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14477187 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
Is it your business? Make it a company car that way he can't just sell it or use it for improper things without your ability to take it from him.

What about possible legal ramifications. I have heard horror stories about owners losing everything over something like this. Thanks for replying!
RE: Have you considered  
NDMedics : 6/19/2019 6:31 pm : link
In comment 14476805 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
Renting him a car or getting him an Uber account? It may be a little more costly but more control

You're doing the right thing by trying to help him AND you get to keep a good employee (not easy to find)


Getting him an Uber account is the best idea on this thread so far.
RE: RE: Have you considered  
smorgan741 : 6/19/2019 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14477253 NDMedics said:
Quote:
In comment 14476805 Gmanfandan said:
Do you now how that works? Is there corporate discounts?


Quote:


Renting him a car or getting him an Uber account? It may be a little more costly but more control

You're doing the right thing by trying to help him AND you get to keep a good employee (not easy to find)



Getting him an Uber account is the best idea on this thread so far.
nope, don't buy anyone a car unless they have the  
GiantsUA : 6/19/2019 7:38 pm : link
same last name as you, and live under your roof
The living in South Carolina  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/19/2019 8:15 pm : link
in a beach town thing makes so much sense to me why you are thinking about this.

Trying to find talent in areas where the population is scarce is so hard.
This could be a big mistake on your part.  
Giant John : 6/19/2019 11:00 pm : link
DO NOT put the car in your name.
_____  
I am Ninja : 6/19/2019 11:56 pm : link
you should definitely do this. there cant be more than a few dozen ways it could go terribly. your boss should fire you and promote him
To me the main goal for this man (besides maintaining his sobriety)  
yatqb : 6/20/2019 12:16 am : link
is to become independent...living on his own, handling the challenges that life presents, being planful and less prone toward immediate rather than delayed gratification...in other words, becoming an adult.

It seems to me that buying him a car, or even trying to solve his transportation issues in any way, may infantilize him and interfere with the process of him becoming a fully functioning adult.

I don't know this guy, of course, and perhaps I'm wrong. But those are my thoughts.
RE: _____  
smorgan741 : 6/20/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14477467 I am Ninja said:
Quote:
you should definitely do this. there cant be more than a few dozen ways it could go terribly. your boss should fire you and promote him

I would be firing myself
RE: The living in South Carolina  
smorgan741 : 6/20/2019 9:23 am : link
In comment 14477314 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
in a beach town thing makes so much sense to me why you are thinking about this.

Trying to find talent in areas where the population is scarce is so hard.


Lot of transients
RE: To me the main goal for this man (besides maintaining his sobriety)  
smorgan741 : 6/20/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14477476 yatqb said:
Quote:
is to become independent...living on his own, handling the challenges that life presents, being planful and less prone toward immediate rather than delayed gratification...in other words, becoming an adult.

It seems to me that buying him a car, or even trying to solve his transportation issues in any way, may infantilize him and interfere with the process of him becoming a fully functioning adult.

I don't know this guy, of course, and perhaps I'm wrong. But those are my thoughts.

Thinking about making him come up with half before it's even discussed any further
Is he angling for you to do this? If so absolutely don’t do it.  
yatqb : 6/20/2019 9:50 am : link
If that’s the case he’s “working”/manipulating you to enable him. So many addicts and former addicts can be great at playing others. It’s a standard feature of some. Beware.
Starting with the O.P.  
idiotsavant : 6/20/2019 10:33 am : link
1. 'Addiction problems'. Serious lack of specificity here. That's no good. Either he's an actual addict, in which case he needs to get clean. In a.a. or a program etc. Or your are gossiping. It can't be both. Gossip is a different ball or wax and can be malevolent. It's one or two ge other.

2. 'lives at home'. Who cares. This doesn't mean shit and is none of your business..there may be rational reasons for this. If it's due to addiction, refer to above but that's out of your bailywick.

3. ' Doesn't have car or drive.' If he's an addict, he should t have or drive. Barring that its Not your problem or issue.

Typo. Should NOT drive  
idiotsavant : 6/20/2019 10:35 am : link
If an addict.
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