MLB has given the Rays permission to explore becoming a 2 city franchise. They'd play their early season games in Tampa and the later ones in Montreal. Very bizarre. Link - ( New Window )
I remember Kansas City-Omaha in the NBA, and those two cities are quite far apart, but then it's a regional franchise. Green Bay plays games in Milwaukee, but it's still Wisconsin. I can't think of another instance of a professional team splitting across that kind of distance — never mind two countries.
and in all my 40 years or so going to YS I don't think I've ever seen less fans from the opposing team in the stadium. Literally I think I counted 4 people all day with Rays gear. I've been to Twins/A's/Royals games the past few years where there was way more.
That would definitely be something, one franchise having the two worst stadiums in major league baseball.
They'd be better off rebuilding Jarry Park. I saw a game in Jarry Park. It was intimate. Nice place to watch a game. More of a minor league park, but still nice.
So let’s take a team in a city that is failing to support an MLB team and split time with a city that already failed to support one and lost their team. Sounds like a great idea!
So let’s take a team in a city that is failing to support an MLB team and split time with a city that already failed to support one and lost their team. Sounds like a great idea!
They did not fail to support them, Montreal at times was a decent fanbase, but Montreal could not compete financially and Loria ran the club into the ground. Obviously, that led to a decline in support. Whether it deserves a franchise again is another question and I am not sure, but what I know is splitting time between two cities does not seem to be practical for anyone--the players, the executives, the players families, etc etc.
especially with young families. Come on to our great franchise and choose whether you want to move them back and forth between countries or live apart for half the season!
But is too afraid to 100% commit. So they came up with this nonsense as an experiment to see if people in Montreal care enough to move the team there full time. That's just my guess what this is about.
So let’s take a team in a city that is failing to support an MLB team and split time with a city that already failed to support one and lost their team. Sounds like a great idea!
They did not fail to support them, Montreal at times was a decent fanbase, but Montreal could not compete financially and Loria ran the club into the ground. Obviously, that led to a decline in support. Whether it deserves a franchise again is another question and I am not sure, but what I know is splitting time between two cities does not seem to be practical for anyone--the players, the executives, the players families, etc etc.
.
The biggest issue was the 1994 baseball strike,
the Expos and Yanks had good teams that year.
The season was never concluded.
They never really recovered from that, hence you have
the Washington Nats...
While the plan is in its nascent stages, the Rays have embraced the two-city solution as the most feasible to saving baseball in the Tampa Bay area after years of failed attempts to build a new stadium in the region, according to sources.
Going to save baseball in TB by moving to Montreal for the second half of the season?
They had a short boom period from about 1979 to 1983 when the team was good and had a couple of big stars in Tim Raines and Andre Dawson. Other than that, their attendance generally ranged from mediocre to laughable.
I have to think there are more promising markets than this.
Montreal was a bad baseball city for a long time. Im sure due in large part to their stadium situation, but that was really before the time of modern stadium amenities. I am not knowledgeable of the current mindset re sustainability of a franchise there now. Do they think it will work?
That would definitely be something, one franchise having the two worst stadiums in major league baseball.
And this is a very good question - Olympic Stadium was a dilapidated dump in the 1990s, and the lack of interest in Montreal to build a new Expos stadium is the main reason why Claude Brochu gave up and sold the team to Loria in the first place. Unless it somehow improved with age, of what benefit is playing half of their games in a different yet even worse stadium?
The 94 strike crippled baseball in Montreal. The Expos were the best team in baseball that year. Then a Jeff Loria killed it.
That's not supported by Expos attendance figures. Their attendance was well below the NL average for the decade prior to the strike. The last year the Expos exceeded the league average attendance was 1983. Also, their attendance was steady in the first few years after the strike. 22K per game in 1994, 18K in 1995, 19K in 1996, 18K in 1997. 1998 is when they went into the death spiral, dropping to 9K.
What player would want to do this? Imagine having your family in Tampa/Montreal and then potentially flip them upside down mid way through the season. No thanks.
The 94 strike crippled baseball in Montreal. The Expos were the best team in baseball that year. Then a Jeff Loria killed it.
That's not supported by Expos attendance figures. Their attendance was well below the NL average for the decade prior to the strike. The last year the Expos exceeded the league average attendance was 1983. Also, their attendance was steady in the first few years after the strike. 22K per game in 1994, 18K in 1995, 19K in 1996, 18K in 1997. 1998 is when they went into the death spiral, dropping to 9K.
It's exactly what happened. 1998 just happens to be the midpoint and the year they dealt the best pitcher in baseball history for a bag of balls. If the spos had won in 94 they never would have left.
Maybe they should address the shithole of a park in the one city they play in already before they worry about playing in two separate places where no one will care about them.
You want to argue that trading Pedro as the beginning of the end, that's fine, but that trade was three years after the strike. Even in 1994 their attendance wasn't great.
Also, the 1994 Expos have become almost an urban legend. Yes, they had the best record at the time of the strike, but there were still 48 games to play. They might have won a title, and they might have gotten swept in the NLDS. The notion that the franchise would have magically taken a completely different path if not for the strike is silly. Maybe you could say that it hastened their demise, but pretending that there weren't major underlying issues that had nothing to do with the strike is wrong.
That article you linked has some glaring factual errors. The Expos averaged 22K in 1994, not 24K, and attendance did plummet by 10K, it dropped by 4K to 18K per game. Furthermore, it's not really true that the Expos were completely stripped bare Florida Marlins-style from 1994 to 1995. Seven of the eight position starters from 1994 were there in 1995. Yes, the one who was gone was a big one, Larry Walker, but their decline year to year also had a lot to do with guys like Wil Cordero and Moises Alou slumping big time after big seasons in 1994. It's a huge leap to talk about them as if they were a budding dynasty, particularly since the team that did end up become a dynasty was only a few games back of their record in 1994.
No one argues that Jeffrey Loria wasn't a disaster. However, the reason he was able to buy the team in the first place is because the franchise was already a wreck, saddled with weak attendance and a dump of a stadium that they had been unsuccessful in replacing.
RE: If the strike killed them, why did it barely affect attendance? Â
You want to argue that trading Pedro as the beginning of the end, that's fine, but that trade was three years after the strike. Even in 1994 their attendance wasn't great.
Also, the 1994 Expos have become almost an urban legend. Yes, they had the best record at the time of the strike, but there were still 48 games to play. They might have won a title, and they might have gotten swept in the NLDS. The notion that the franchise would have magically taken a completely different path if not for the strike is silly. Maybe you could say that it hastened their demise, but pretending that there weren't major underlying issues that had nothing to do with the strike is wrong.
You're committing malpractice with numbers. I remember that was of baseball well. I lived five years in Montreal on the 80s. My best friend was a massive Expos fan and I went to countless games at the Big O. The 94 team was a great team. They were clearly the best team in baseball and had a strong shot at winning the world series. If you don't think winning a title would have helped the fortunes of that team I don't know what to tell you.
RE: MLB probably ought to either contract or move teams abroad. Â
Because they were a few games better than the Yankees with 48 games remaining in the season, with a record that was 4 games better than their pythag and a lineup that was full of holes aside from Walker and Alou?
You apparently have an inability to be impartial about this due to your affinity for the team, and thus have chosen to live in fantasy land and pretend that everything would have been just peachy for the Expos if the strike hadn't happened. Reality doesn't reflect this.
Maybe they should address the shithole of a park in the one city they play in already before they worry about playing in two separate places where no one will care about them.
Because they were a few games better than the Yankees with 48 games remaining in the season, with a record that was 4 games better than their pythag and a lineup that was full of holes aside from Walker and Alou?
You apparently have an inability to be impartial about this due to your affinity for the team, and thus have chosen to live in fantasy land and pretend that everything would have been just peachy for the Expos if the strike hadn't happened. Reality doesn't reflect this.
They led the national league by six games with almost two months to play. And if you think they only had Walker and Alou and a bunch of holes you are completely ignorant. They dominated the national league in run differential. Stick to football.
That would definitely be something, one franchise having the two worst stadiums in major league baseball.
Land in the Peel basin at the edge of the downtown has apparently been given the green light for a stadium should the city get a team back. (the linked article is an older one just to show the area)
There is nothing official but there are numerous sources that have been talking about it for the last month.
C - Darren Fletcher, .260/.314/.435, 92 OPS+
1B - Cliff Floyd, .281/.332/.398, 89
2B - Mike Lansing, .266/.328/.368, 81
SS - Wil Cordero, .294/.363/.489, 119
3B - Sean Berry, .278/.347/.453, 106
LF - Moises Alou, .339/.397/.592, 153
CF - Marquis Grissom, .288/.344/.427, 99
RF - Larry Walker, 151
So, that's two outstanding bats in Walker and Alou. Cordero was having a very good year but was a pretty mediocre player - a nonzero chance his numbers would have fallen off later in the year. The rest of the lineup was average to slightly below average.
Good lineup. Hardly a great lineup. For comparison's sake, here was the Yankees lineup that year:
C - Mike Stanley, .300/.384/.545
1B - Don Mattingly, .304/.397/411
2B - Pat Kelly, .280/.330/.399
SS - Mike Gallego, .239/.327/.359
3B - Wade Boggs, .342/.433/.489
LF - Luis Polonia, .311/.383/.414
CF - Bernie Williams, .289/.384/.453
RF - Paul O'Neill, .359/.460/.603, 177
DH - Danny Tartabull, .256/.338/.439
And there was a good power bat on the bench too in Jim Leyritz (.265/.365/.518). A clearly superior lineup.
Yes, Montreal had better pitching, but let's not act as if they had a staff of aces other than Pedro, who was only 22 and wasn't yet THE Pedro. Ken Hill, Jeff Fassero, Butch Henry....a collection of OK pitchers having career years. Not exactly a terrifying group.
Anyway, the point is that Montreal was a very good team but hardly some unstoppable juggernaut.
what the Expos would have done in the strike season, they were a floundering franchise for years.
The team with the best record in the National League was still struggling to get fans to the park.
Hell, there are much better options than Montreal today. Birmingham, Oklahoma City, Portland, Omaha, Nashville, Charlotte or Louisville would all be better choices. Now, there would have to be realignment of those minor league teams, but Montreal was never a good baseball town. In fact, their best years were still at or below the MLB average.
I’m pretty sure this idea will be kiboshed. Players coaches etc will need to find homes in two cities it creates tax and residency headaches , fans will not be as engaged since they are rooting for a foreign unrelated city. Likely just a pressure tactic to get local government in TB to cough up more money for a new stadium
There is a rabid but relatively small fan base in Montreal.
what the Expos would have done in the strike season, they were a floundering franchise for years.
The team with the best record in the National League was still struggling to get fans to the park.
Hell, there are much better options than Montreal today. Birmingham, Oklahoma City, Portland, Omaha, Nashville, Charlotte or Louisville would all be better choices. Now, there would have to be realignment of those minor league teams, but Montreal was never a good baseball town. In fact, their best years were still at or below the MLB average.
Ridiculous. Nearly all those markets are a third of the size of Montreal.
size doesn't matter if people don't attend the games. All of those cities have excellent attendance for current teams.
The Expos are the NHL equivalent of the Atlanta Flames.
Sure ok market size doesn't matter. Hey answer this, how are those markets doing in hockey compared to Montreal? How's Carolina doing? Yea give an mlb team to Louisville and you'll have another team looking to move in 12 yrs. You say the Expos were league average attendance like that's a bad thing. If the Ray's were league average we wouldn't be having this conversation.
my thoughts exactly...how is this an incentive for people to come out to the games?
They did not fail to support them, Montreal at times was a decent fanbase, but Montreal could not compete financially and Loria ran the club into the ground. Obviously, that led to a decline in support. Whether it deserves a franchise again is another question and I am not sure, but what I know is splitting time between two cities does not seem to be practical for anyone--the players, the executives, the players families, etc etc.
Fucking move them here.
It’s time they move along.
Quote:
So let’s take a team in a city that is failing to support an MLB team and split time with a city that already failed to support one and lost their team. Sounds like a great idea!
They did not fail to support them, Montreal at times was a decent fanbase, but Montreal could not compete financially and Loria ran the club into the ground. Obviously, that led to a decline in support. Whether it deserves a franchise again is another question and I am not sure, but what I know is splitting time between two cities does not seem to be practical for anyone--the players, the executives, the players families, etc etc.
The biggest issue was the 1994 baseball strike,
the Expos and Yanks had good teams that year.
The season was never concluded.
They never really recovered from that, hence you have
the Washington Nats...
While the plan is in its nascent stages, the Rays have embraced the two-city solution as the most feasible to saving baseball in the Tampa Bay area after years of failed attempts to build a new stadium in the region, according to sources.
Going to save baseball in TB by moving to Montreal for the second half of the season?
I have to think there are more promising markets than this.
Montreal was a decent baseball town and deserved better. Canada should have at least two teams.
Moving a Montreal team into the AL East will boost an already intense division by adding a heated Montreal- Toronto rivalry.
Hope it happens.
And this is a very good question - Olympic Stadium was a dilapidated dump in the 1990s, and the lack of interest in Montreal to build a new Expos stadium is the main reason why Claude Brochu gave up and sold the team to Loria in the first place. Unless it somehow improved with age, of what benefit is playing half of their games in a different yet even worse stadium?
That's not supported by Expos attendance figures. Their attendance was well below the NL average for the decade prior to the strike. The last year the Expos exceeded the league average attendance was 1983. Also, their attendance was steady in the first few years after the strike. 22K per game in 1994, 18K in 1995, 19K in 1996, 18K in 1997. 1998 is when they went into the death spiral, dropping to 9K.
The fuck is a Timber?
Quote:
The 94 strike crippled baseball in Montreal. The Expos were the best team in baseball that year. Then a Jeff Loria killed it.
That's not supported by Expos attendance figures. Their attendance was well below the NL average for the decade prior to the strike. The last year the Expos exceeded the league average attendance was 1983. Also, their attendance was steady in the first few years after the strike. 22K per game in 1994, 18K in 1995, 19K in 1996, 18K in 1997. 1998 is when they went into the death spiral, dropping to 9K.
It's exactly what happened. 1998 just happens to be the midpoint and the year they dealt the best pitcher in baseball history for a bag of balls. If the spos had won in 94 they never would have left.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/118868-how-jeffrey-loria-destroyed-the-montreal-exposnationals
Loria destroyed the Expos - ( New Window )
Quote:
Look @ the Blazers & Timbers. That's a sports crazed city.
The fuck is a Timber?
LOL. Got me.
Also, the 1994 Expos have become almost an urban legend. Yes, they had the best record at the time of the strike, but there were still 48 games to play. They might have won a title, and they might have gotten swept in the NLDS. The notion that the franchise would have magically taken a completely different path if not for the strike is silly. Maybe you could say that it hastened their demise, but pretending that there weren't major underlying issues that had nothing to do with the strike is wrong.
It’s time they move along.
No one argues that Jeffrey Loria wasn't a disaster. However, the reason he was able to buy the team in the first place is because the franchise was already a wreck, saddled with weak attendance and a dump of a stadium that they had been unsuccessful in replacing.
Also, the 1994 Expos have become almost an urban legend. Yes, they had the best record at the time of the strike, but there were still 48 games to play. They might have won a title, and they might have gotten swept in the NLDS. The notion that the franchise would have magically taken a completely different path if not for the strike is silly. Maybe you could say that it hastened their demise, but pretending that there weren't major underlying issues that had nothing to do with the strike is wrong.
You're committing malpractice with numbers. I remember that was of baseball well. I lived five years in Montreal on the 80s. My best friend was a massive Expos fan and I went to countless games at the Big O. The 94 team was a great team. They were clearly the best team in baseball and had a strong shot at winning the world series. If you don't think winning a title would have helped the fortunes of that team I don't know what to tell you.
Can't see a team moving there with most of Mexico being controlled by cartels.
You apparently have an inability to be impartial about this due to your affinity for the team, and thus have chosen to live in fantasy land and pretend that everything would have been just peachy for the Expos if the strike hadn't happened. Reality doesn't reflect this.
This get rid of that dump.
You apparently have an inability to be impartial about this due to your affinity for the team, and thus have chosen to live in fantasy land and pretend that everything would have been just peachy for the Expos if the strike hadn't happened. Reality doesn't reflect this.
They led the national league by six games with almost two months to play. And if you think they only had Walker and Alou and a bunch of holes you are completely ignorant. They dominated the national league in run differential. Stick to football.
Land in the Peel basin at the edge of the downtown has apparently been given the green light for a stadium should the city get a team back. (the linked article is an older one just to show the area)
There is nothing official but there are numerous sources that have been talking about it for the last month.
Peel Basin - ( New Window )
1B - Cliff Floyd, .281/.332/.398, 89
2B - Mike Lansing, .266/.328/.368, 81
SS - Wil Cordero, .294/.363/.489, 119
3B - Sean Berry, .278/.347/.453, 106
LF - Moises Alou, .339/.397/.592, 153
CF - Marquis Grissom, .288/.344/.427, 99
RF - Larry Walker, 151
So, that's two outstanding bats in Walker and Alou. Cordero was having a very good year but was a pretty mediocre player - a nonzero chance his numbers would have fallen off later in the year. The rest of the lineup was average to slightly below average.
Good lineup. Hardly a great lineup. For comparison's sake, here was the Yankees lineup that year:
C - Mike Stanley, .300/.384/.545
1B - Don Mattingly, .304/.397/411
2B - Pat Kelly, .280/.330/.399
SS - Mike Gallego, .239/.327/.359
3B - Wade Boggs, .342/.433/.489
LF - Luis Polonia, .311/.383/.414
CF - Bernie Williams, .289/.384/.453
RF - Paul O'Neill, .359/.460/.603, 177
DH - Danny Tartabull, .256/.338/.439
And there was a good power bat on the bench too in Jim Leyritz (.265/.365/.518). A clearly superior lineup.
Yes, Montreal had better pitching, but let's not act as if they had a staff of aces other than Pedro, who was only 22 and wasn't yet THE Pedro. Ken Hill, Jeff Fassero, Butch Henry....a collection of OK pitchers having career years. Not exactly a terrifying group.
Anyway, the point is that Montreal was a very good team but hardly some unstoppable juggernaut.
The team with the best record in the National League was still struggling to get fans to the park.
Hell, there are much better options than Montreal today. Birmingham, Oklahoma City, Portland, Omaha, Nashville, Charlotte or Louisville would all be better choices. Now, there would have to be realignment of those minor league teams, but Montreal was never a good baseball town. In fact, their best years were still at or below the MLB average.
There is a rabid but relatively small fan base in Montreal.
The team with the best record in the National League was still struggling to get fans to the park.
Hell, there are much better options than Montreal today. Birmingham, Oklahoma City, Portland, Omaha, Nashville, Charlotte or Louisville would all be better choices. Now, there would have to be realignment of those minor league teams, but Montreal was never a good baseball town. In fact, their best years were still at or below the MLB average.
Ridiculous. Nearly all those markets are a third of the size of Montreal.
The Expos are the NHL equivalent of the Atlanta Flames.
The Expos are the NHL equivalent of the Atlanta Flames.
Sure ok market size doesn't matter. Hey answer this, how are those markets doing in hockey compared to Montreal? How's Carolina doing? Yea give an mlb team to Louisville and you'll have another team looking to move in 12 yrs. You say the Expos were league average attendance like that's a bad thing. If the Ray's were league average we wouldn't be having this conversation.