On “The Jump” Lebron’s media guy and the ex-player said that there are many in the league now who believe Durant joins his buddy Irving and heads to the Nets.
Wonder if at that point the Nets become #1 in the NYC market and Knicks become yesterday’s news?
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I'm by no means a Kyrie superfan - i've said in this thread I'd rather just keep russell because he's a known quantity for the Nets and 4 years younger, with less injury history. Neither player is a true #1. But Kyrie is a very good player and calling him a cancer isn't really backed up by all that much.
Warriors with Draymond becoming a FA and Klay coming off an ACL?
Nets with Kyrie, Joe Harris, Allen and Prince
or Knicks with Knox, Barrett, DSJ, Mitch, another lotto 1st and another max slot?
I think you can definitely make the argument it's the Knicks.
23 year old All-Star is finally getting some love.
I'm by no means a Kyrie superfan - i've said in this thread I'd rather just keep russell because he's a known quantity for the Nets and 4 years younger, with less injury history. Neither player is a true #1. But Kyrie is a very good player and calling him a cancer isn't really backed up by all that much.
I actually didn't say any of that. I didn't say he can't mature nor did I call him a cancer...
When things don't go his way he bails. That's not the type of guy I frankly want to build a team around.
Stevens did a bad job this season, no doubt. But he's still one of the best coaches in basketball and players respect him.
Irving had a problem with nearly everyone by the end. Stevens, Ainge, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum. At some point you have to identify the common variable.
If Nets and Celtics effectively swap point guards (which I think the Celtics will definitely pursue Russel if available), I won't be surprised if the Celtics are a better team even with out Horford.
This is not an unfair post but it's also reading into some things and assigning meaning where there may or may not be. Kawhi pushed his way out from Greg Popovich. I think it's stupid for any player to ask out of a team Lebron is on but sometimes things happen behind the scenes and Kyrie was like 24 at the time. Kyrie's 2 years in Boston are tough to assign value/blame - by the numbers he was their best player both years but it obviously just didn't work out. It could work out at his next step or it could not - but I don't think it's pre-determined that he's headcase. I don't think he's Stephon Marbury, but he could be - that's why I'd prefer to keep DLo if it comes down to a choice.
And yes, that Nets team is better.
No, it’s not close.
Barrett and the hypothetical future pick are lotto tickets. We have no idea what they are right now. No one is making a decision based on them. Is it possible Barrett becomes an all-star early on and you hit paydirt next year? Of course. Is it possible you have two more lottery busts? Yes.
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but Kyrie Irving can't possibly develop more maturity with whoever his new team ends up being? Why do I think that opinion would change if signed with whatever team you root for.
I'm by no means a Kyrie superfan - i've said in this thread I'd rather just keep russell because he's a known quantity for the Nets and 4 years younger, with less injury history. Neither player is a true #1. But Kyrie is a very good player and calling him a cancer isn't really backed up by all that much.
I actually didn't say any of that. I didn't say he can't mature nor did I call him a cancer...
you responded to a post that was effecitvely "Kyrie could mature the same way Russell did" by saying "im not sure that's true" and listing reasons why. That kind of implies not thinking he can mature, but no point belaboring it if we're both in agreement that there's a possibility he's not a cancer and could mature in whatever new environment he ends up at.
Warriors with Draymond becoming a FA and Klay coming off an ACL?
Nets with Kyrie, Joe Harris, Allen and Prince
or Knicks with Knox, Barrett, DSJ, Mitch, another lotto 1st and another max slot?
I think you can definitely make the argument it's the Knicks.
It's the Warriors and it's not close unless Barrett becomes a superstar in his second year (HIGHLY unlikely).
This is why KD to the Nets makes no sense to me. If it's about winning and he's not as confident that he can carry a team as he once was when he comes back then he should absolutely go back to GS. If it's about his legacy, brand, etc and he's confident he'll get back to where he was and wants to prove he's the best player in the world then the Knicks make the most sense.
No disrespect to Net fans on here but they sort of sit #2 amongst all of the contributing factors which isn't at all to say anything negative about the Nets. Maybe post-achilles injury that's the compromise he feels like he needs to make?
And yes, that Nets team is better.
No, it’s not close.
Barrett and the hypothetical future pick are lotto tickets. We have no idea what they are right now. No one is making a decision based on them. Is it possible Barrett becomes an all-star early on and you hit paydirt next year? Of course. Is it possible you have two more lottery busts? Yes.
I forgot about LaVert. Who else? Dinwiddie and Jared Dudley? Lets not pretend that the Nets have some stacked roster.
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I like Irving and I hope he succeeds at the team of his choosing, but he wasn't happy on a championship team with the best player in the world and pushed his way out, he announced unnecessarily he was going to stay in Boston publicly, and after a tough season where they still won a playoff series he wants out.
When things don't go his way he bails. That's not the type of guy I frankly want to build a team around.
Stevens did a bad job this season, no doubt. But he's still one of the best coaches in basketball and players respect him.
Irving had a problem with nearly everyone by the end. Stevens, Ainge, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum. At some point you have to identify the common variable.
If Nets and Celtics effectively swap point guards (which I think the Celtics will definitely pursue Russel if available), I won't be surprised if the Celtics are a better team even with out Horford.
This is not an unfair post but it's also reading into some things and assigning meaning where there may or may not be. Kawhi pushed his way out from Greg Popovich. I think it's stupid for any player to ask out of a team Lebron is on but sometimes things happen behind the scenes and Kyrie was like 24 at the time. Kyrie's 2 years in Boston are tough to assign value/blame - by the numbers he was their best player both years but it obviously just didn't work out. It could work out at his next step or it could not - but I don't think it's pre-determined that he's headcase. I don't think he's Stephon Marbury, but he could be - that's why I'd prefer to keep DLo if it comes down to a choice.
I don't think he's a head case, I just don't think he's the kind of person who has the mental toughness to withstand hard situations and lead a team out of it.
Leornard is such an outlying case -- maybe Irving is that type of guy but if I'm a GM I'm not counting on it.
I appreciate Irving, I like him and I wish him well. I don't want him to stay on the team I pull for, and I'd rather the Celtics get busy rebuilding. I don't know if ever been happy a great player is leaving my team.
Like I said, maybe he's much happier in the team of his choosing and succeeds.
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more about Durant, who is going to have the best situation in 2020, when he'll actually be able to play?
Warriors with Draymond becoming a FA and Klay coming off an ACL?
Nets with Kyrie, Joe Harris, Allen and Prince
or Knicks with Knox, Barrett, DSJ, Mitch, another lotto 1st and another max slot?
I think you can definitely make the argument it's the Knicks.
It's the Warriors and it's not close unless Barrett becomes a superstar in his second year (HIGHLY unlikely).
This is why KD to the Nets makes no sense to me. If it's about winning and he's not as confident that he can carry a team as he once was when he comes back then he should absolutely go back to GS. If it's about his legacy, brand, etc and he's confident he'll get back to where he was and wants to prove he's the best player in the world then the Knicks make the most sense.
No disrespect to Net fans on here but they sort of sit #2 amongst all of the contributing factors which isn't at all to say anything negative about the Nets. Maybe post-achilles injury that's the compromise he feels like he needs to make?
Part of me wishes Durant agreed with you, but it certainly sounds like he doesn’t.
There is a massive drop off between the Warriors (60 win team without KD), the Nets (50 win team without KD) and Knicks (25 win team without KD).
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more about Durant, who is going to have the best situation in 2020, when he'll actually be able to play?
Warriors with Draymond becoming a FA and Klay coming off an ACL?
Nets with Kyrie, Joe Harris, Allen and Prince
or Knicks with Knox, Barrett, DSJ, Mitch, another lotto 1st and another max slot?
I think you can definitely make the argument it's the Knicks.
It's the Warriors and it's not close unless Barrett becomes a superstar in his second year (HIGHLY unlikely).
This is why KD to the Nets makes no sense to me. If it's about winning and he's not as confident that he can carry a team as he once was when he comes back then he should absolutely go back to GS. If it's about his legacy, brand, etc and he's confident he'll get back to where he was and wants to prove he's the best player in the world then the Knicks make the most sense.
No disrespect to Net fans on here but they sort of sit #2 amongst all of the contributing factors which isn't at all to say anything negative about the Nets. Maybe post-achilles injury that's the compromise he feels like he needs to make?
I think this is all fair but I think there's one aspect of this being overlooked or not factored in enough. If you go back to the Warriors then you are pretty much expected to win. Championship or bust. If you go to someone like the Nets, you still have a great situation and the ability/situation to win, but it alleviates that win or bust perception. The Nets or Knicks, with their young role players, would still be expected to win, but it isn't this superstar team.
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You left off multiple Nets players. Including some of their best.
And yes, that Nets team is better.
No, it’s not close.
Barrett and the hypothetical future pick are lotto tickets. We have no idea what they are right now. No one is making a decision based on them. Is it possible Barrett becomes an all-star early on and you hit paydirt next year? Of course. Is it possible you have two more lottery busts? Yes.
I forgot about LaVert. Who else? Dinwiddie and Jared Dudley? Lets not pretend that the Nets have some stacked roster.
The Nets over under is going to be in the 50s if they sign Kyrie. They are pretty good.
Leornard is such an outlying case -- maybe Irving is that type of guy but if I'm a GM I'm not counting on it.
I appreciate Irving, I like him and I wish him well. I don't want him to stay on the team I pull for, and I'd rather the Celtics get busy rebuilding. I don't know if ever been happy a great player is leaving my team.
Like I said, maybe he's much happier in the team of his choosing and succeeds.
I'm mostly in agreement. I don't love the player - he wouldn't be in my top few targets if I was the Nets GM. But if I could get him without losing DLo I'd roll the dice on his talent and hope that he matures.
I'm very confident the Knicks will sign Durant. I think when the dust settles, and the emotions settle, no one else is giving Durant a max to redshirt a year.
The Warriors' total tax and payroll would be 300M+ if they max Durant and Thompson. I don't see them paying over a billion dollars to keep the core together for the next 4 years.
There is an irrational part of me that wants to sign him because Knicks (and other NBA) fans literally cannot comprehend it happening. Despite the fact that the Nets have clearly proven themselves as the better organization with the better team. Some, not all, of these fans appear to have not ever watched the Nets play or have mostly skipped out on following the NBA in the last three years because their team has been atrocious and are sticking to their same tired tropes about fanbases/how the Nets have no good players.
The rational part of me doesn’t want to sign him because it’s not entirely clear it’s the right thing for sustained winning (though I defer to the front office as they clearly know how to build a team).
The rational side is winning, right now. Hope that is true for the front office as well.
He knows Irving good and bad, and worked well with him. And he's getting far enough below the max there is room for another rotational piece.
He knows Irving good and bad, and worked well with him. And he's getting far enough below the max there is room for another rotational piece.
Horford has what, one or two good seasons left? He apparently is looking for 4 years 112 million, that's not far below the max IMO. 28 mil a season. Only way I sign him is if I am a contender next season. By contender I mean a top 3 seed.
I think it's even more pathetic to resign both teams to failure.
I agree. But the issue is Nets fans constantly ripping on the Knicks and acting like the Nets have won back to back to back championships. The Nets just barely finished .500 and got curb stomped in the first round.
The Nets are better than the Knicks right now. But I’ve never in my life seen a fanbase so ecstatic about utter mediocrity. Everyone on the team is awesome! Yet they barely managed to scrape out a playoff birth in the horrible East. I’m glad they’re satisfied with that. But please, get out of the first round before running your mouths.
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Neither team is very good, lol. It’s like the contest to be the tallest midget. Personally, I’d love for them to get Kyrie. Seems like a great culture guy.
I agree. But the issue is Nets fans constantly ripping on the Knicks and acting like the Nets have won back to back to back championships. The Nets just barely finished .500 and got curb stomped in the first round.
The Nets are better than the Knicks right now. But I’ve never in my life seen a fanbase so ecstatic about utter mediocrity. Everyone on the team is awesome! Yet they barely managed to scrape out a playoff birth in the horrible East. I’m glad they’re satisfied with that. But please, get out of the first round before running your mouths.
Not a nets fan but I think knick fans are more insufferable. Claiming to be the mecca of basketball and not even having a playoff birth since Ewing to hold their hat on. Neither team has been good but the nets have at least had some success the last 20 years
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In comment 14480634 PhiPsi125 said:
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Neither team is very good, lol. It’s like the contest to be the tallest midget. Personally, I’d love for them to get Kyrie. Seems like a great culture guy.
I agree. But the issue is Nets fans constantly ripping on the Knicks and acting like the Nets have won back to back to back championships. The Nets just barely finished .500 and got curb stomped in the first round.
The Nets are better than the Knicks right now. But I’ve never in my life seen a fanbase so ecstatic about utter mediocrity. Everyone on the team is awesome! Yet they barely managed to scrape out a playoff birth in the horrible East. I’m glad they’re satisfied with that. But please, get out of the first round before running your mouths.
Not a nets fan but I think knick fans are more insufferable. Claiming to be the mecca of basketball and not even having a playoff birth since Ewing to hold their hat on. Neither team has been good but the nets have at least had some success the last 20 years
Knicks did go to the playoffs a few years ago for 3 straight years and won 54 games...
What fan base still supports their team like knicks fans do? the place is rocking evwn when the knicks are 20 games under 500..
Calling knicks fans insufferable is a joke..
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In comment 14480804 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 14480634 PhiPsi125 said:
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Neither team is very good, lol. It’s like the contest to be the tallest midget. Personally, I’d love for them to get Kyrie. Seems like a great culture guy.
I agree. But the issue is Nets fans constantly ripping on the Knicks and acting like the Nets have won back to back to back championships. The Nets just barely finished .500 and got curb stomped in the first round.
The Nets are better than the Knicks right now. But I’ve never in my life seen a fanbase so ecstatic about utter mediocrity. Everyone on the team is awesome! Yet they barely managed to scrape out a playoff birth in the horrible East. I’m glad they’re satisfied with that. But please, get out of the first round before running your mouths.
Not a nets fan but I think knick fans are more insufferable. Claiming to be the mecca of basketball and not even having a playoff birth since Ewing to hold their hat on. Neither team has been good but the nets have at least had some success the last 20 years
Knicks did go to the playoffs a few years ago for 3 straight years and won 54 games...
You're right. I blocked the melo years out of my mind. Winning a game vs the heat was a sad exit. Too lazy to look up the rest
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Neither team is very good, lol. It’s like the contest to be the tallest midget. Personally, I’d love for them to get Kyrie. Seems like a great culture guy.
I agree. But the issue is Nets fans constantly ripping on the Knicks and acting like the Nets have won back to back to back championships. The Nets just barely finished .500 and got curb stomped in the first round.
The Nets are better than the Knicks right now. But I’ve never in my life seen a fanbase so ecstatic about utter mediocrity. Everyone on the team is awesome! Yet they barely managed to scrape out a playoff birth in the horrible East. I’m glad they’re satisfied with that. But please, get out of the first round before running your mouths.
Lol what are you talking about?
The knicks should be like the Yankees and giants but the fans have a complex like the jets or mets.
The nets are irrelevant for near all of my fan hood and I could give 2 shits about it.
If Durant is out then I would give Russel the max 4years st $23 per. I am not that excited about this, but my thoughts are in a year or two from now he is a fairly valued all star Guard who can be traded In a trade for a bigger star if need be. I would then use the other $50 million to secure some solid vets on 1 year deals.
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The Nets should pursue Horford and Irving -- aside from the karmic value -- Horford is an absolute stabilizer on and off the court.
He knows Irving good and bad, and worked well with him. And he's getting far enough below the max there is room for another rotational piece.
Horford has what, one or two good seasons left? He apparently is looking for 4 years 112 million, that's not far below the max IMO. 28 mil a season. Only way I sign him is if I am a contender next season. By contender I mean a top 3 seed.
He's never claimed to be asking for 4/112, that was a rumor that Dallas had offered it, and Dallas is claiming they didn't.
I won't be surprised if he signs for 3/72. If the Nets add both, that's a top 3 seed in the making.
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In comment 14480739 christian said:
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The Nets should pursue Horford and Irving -- aside from the karmic value -- Horford is an absolute stabilizer on and off the court.
He knows Irving good and bad, and worked well with him. And he's getting far enough below the max there is room for another rotational piece.
Horford has what, one or two good seasons left? He apparently is looking for 4 years 112 million, that's not far below the max IMO. 28 mil a season. Only way I sign him is if I am a contender next season. By contender I mean a top 3 seed.
He's never claimed to be asking for 4/112, that was a rumor that Dallas had offered it, and Dallas is claiming they didn't.
I won't be surprised if he signs for 3/72. If the Nets add both, that's a top 3 seed in the making.
That's the exact type of deal I'm hoping he takes with the Nets. I think my ideal nets offseason would be Horford, Irving, and then trading Dinwiddie to keep DLo. If Horford's AAV is $24m and Kyrie is $32m, that adds up to $56m. The Nets have at least $46m free even with DLo's cap hold, so I think clearing Dinwiddie is all they'd need to do.
That would basically make them Blazers East, but that's not so bad.
Horford is looking for a longer term deal, that is why he opted out. If he had a nice but equal showing this year, at age 34 he's not crushing the bank next offseason.
I bet he goes to a contender (the C's are rebuilding) for less than the max on 3 years.
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blindly, he knows what he is getting on the open market and he is not taking a discount
Horford is looking for a longer term deal, that is why he opted out. If he had a nice but equal showing this year, at age 34 he's not crushing the bank next offseason.
I bet he goes to a contender (the C's are rebuilding) for less than the max on 3 years.
all reports said he was talking to the celtics about a long term deal and he felt he could grt a better offer...
so onviously he is not taking that much of a discount
You were right, but if it was anywhere close to what he thinks he can get they wouldnt of broken off talks..
They have an offer from another team to make him so confident
I want nothing to do with Horford on a long-term deal. Still a very good player, but he showed his cracks last year. Career low in games played and MPG. Not enough to say he's about to fall off a cliff, but enough to give pause.
Al Horford is not bringing the Nets a championship, so why do it? If they can't get an premier FA to come with Kyrie, I'd resign D-Lo, and make a run at Tobias Harris. Probably good enough for 3-seed in the east (assuming Kawhi moves west).
Fans are split on Kyrie vs Dlo. It really all depends on who would be coming with Kyrie. I'd personally love something like retain Dlo and then sign Randle and another mid to high level guy.
This is where I'm at with this as well. Like Kyrie is a heck of a player, but he was just the star of a team that won 49 games with a better supporting cast than the Nets have. And is he really that much better than Russell? If you swapped the 2 players this past season, how many more games do the Nets win, 3, maybe 4? Why does adding him suddenly make a mediocre Nets team a contender?
I also don't get the attitude that LaVert is some kind of lock for future All-Star games. Let's see him average 14 ppg or make a decent % from 3 before we anoint him.
At this time last year everyone thought the Celtics were one of the best foundations in all NBA - so yes, I would be happy to be the Brooklyn Celtics, with the differences being Russell/Levert/Allen/Kurucs over the Celtics supporting cast. I have no idea what went wrong with the Celtics last season but the biggest underachiever on their roster by a healthy margin was Hayward - and he was also the biggest variable from their success in year 1 with Kyrie vs. year 2. So I'm inclined to believe that Stevens overplaying him may have been what disrupted their chemistry.
If the Nets got both Kyrie/Horford they'd be up against the cap but with so many young tradable pieces they would be in play for whatever came available on the trade market - as both they and Boston were for AD. Being 1 final piece away is better than being 2, 3, or 4 pieces away as long as you still have some assets you can trade. If they had to go to a 4th year for Horford that would be risky though.
The nets would have about $60m to spend without renouncing Russell's bird rights just by trading Dinwiddie - whose game is stylistically a lot more redundant to Kyrie than Russell.
The nets would have about $60m to spend without renouncing Russell's bird rights just by trading Dinwiddie - whose game is stylistically a lot more redundant to Kyrie than Russell.
I would think that the Nets wouldn't want to be paying Russell, Kyrie and lets say Harris or Butler all max deals especially with LeVert eligible for an extension next year but who knows.
I would think that the Nets wouldn't want to be paying Russell, Kyrie and lets say Harris or Butler all max deals especially with LeVert eligible for an extension next year but who knows.
It's not ideal but better than losing him for nothing IMO. If they were adding Leonard or a healthy KD you can justify just about any tradeoff because you're adding one of the top players in the NBA and becoming an instant contender. With KD getting injured and Leonard unlikely, no matter what they do this offseason they are going to be at least 1 move away. Losing a 23 year old all star for nothing seems counter productive to me.