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NFT: Astros at Yankees GDT 6/23 Old Timers Day

Jints in Carolina : 6/23/2019 11:10 am
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RE: Sorry Jints, maybe I'm ahead of your stream  
Jints in Carolina : 6/23/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14480658 adamg said:
Quote:
It sounded like your post was in response to the homerun, not just loading the bases.


it's all good
Happ has been atrocious this year  
Dave in Buffalo : 6/23/2019 3:28 pm : link
Era at 5.23 this far into the season there's no reason to trust him going forward. Really need to get him out of the rotation.
Cessa  
nygnyy274 : 6/23/2019 3:28 pm : link
Is god awful
RE: Thank God Michael is telling the Verlander to HOU story again  
Stu11 : 6/23/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14480662 adamg said:
Quote:
Haven't heard this a million times before. And it's not especially excruciating when we look like crap against him today...

Yep that's Kay's special treat every game like everyone watching has never watched a baseball game before.
Forgive me fine gentlemen  
Jints in Carolina : 6/23/2019 3:31 pm : link
but I am going to head to the pool
Don't sleep on Death Con 8/9ths' come back ability  
adamg : 6/23/2019 3:35 pm : link
But enjoy the pool, fellas.
I'd consider resting some players now  
xman : 6/23/2019 3:40 pm : link
Didi is not looking good but who would against Verlander.

I think Didi will be a tough sign in the off season because my guess is the Yanks might have tried in this winter when he was injured and it didn't happen. Just a guess but I have no problem if he leaves for greener pastures. There are others more important to extend
DJ!  
adamg : 6/23/2019 3:43 pm : link
9-3

It's ain't over yet.
DJ  
nygnyy274 : 6/23/2019 3:44 pm : link
Is my favorite player in this lineup
Judge with a poor AB there  
adamg : 6/23/2019 3:45 pm : link
He's not 100% yet.
Game doesn't feel over.  
Dave in Buffalo : 6/23/2019 3:55 pm : link
Feels like we're just a couple of touchdowns down...
Voit with a great AB despite the ump fucking him over  
adamg : 6/23/2019 4:00 pm : link
Verlander gets two borderline calls to get 3 strikes.

And Michael Kay said they worked Verlander well. He's on pace to pitch 6+ innings...
This ump wants to go home  
adamg : 6/23/2019 4:02 pm : link
Ugly strike 2 call to Eddy. And then he has to hack at strike 3.
RE: JA Happ is fucking awful  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14480670 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
I love all the winning but we need to seriously get some starting pitching.


It's amazing that Happ fits Cashman criteria of being high end starter. Remember in the offseason he said he was looking to get two high end starters and he signed Happ. Granted Happ was really good, but he's never been a high end starter.
DJ ends up a double short of the cycle  
adamg : 6/23/2019 4:30 pm : link
Not a bad game for him.
Happ is coming off 4 consecutive years  
adamg : 6/23/2019 4:33 pm : link
of sub 3.66 ERA, and he pitched to a sub 3 ERA for us in the last half of last year.
RE: Happ is coming off 4 consecutive years  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14480703 adamg said:
Quote:
of sub 3.66 ERA, and he pitched to a sub 3 ERA for us in the last half of last year.


Based on the last four years, he's been a good pitcher, no doubt. But when you're saying high end starter, I want more than Ja Happ, that's what I'm wondering what Cashman definition of a high end starter. Also, with the team so analytic base, there were red flags projecting a decline in Happs performance, yet they shelled out 17 mil for 2 years, maybe three
RE: RE: Happ is coming off 4 consecutive years  
adamg : 6/23/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14480707 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14480703 adamg said:


Quote:


of sub 3.66 ERA, and he pitched to a sub 3 ERA for us in the last half of last year.



Based on the last four years, he's been a good pitcher, no doubt. But when you're saying high end starter, I want more than Ja Happ, that's what I'm wondering what Cashman definition of a high end starter. Also, with the team so analytic base, there were red flags projecting a decline in Happs performance, yet they shelled out 17 mil for 2 years, maybe three


That's fair. For the money Happ got, he should be doing better this year, for sure.
RE: RE: RE: Happ is coming off 4 consecutive years  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14480715 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14480707 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14480703 adamg said:


Quote:


of sub 3.66 ERA, and he pitched to a sub 3 ERA for us in the last half of last year.



Based on the last four years, he's been a good pitcher, no doubt. But when you're saying high end starter, I want more than Ja Happ, that's what I'm wondering what Cashman definition of a high end starter. Also, with the team so analytic base, there were red flags projecting a decline in Happs performance, yet they shelled out 17 mil for 2 years, maybe three



That's fair. For the money Happ got, he should be doing better this year, for sure.


I was in favor of signing him because he pitched well for us, but I wanted them to add more, like Charlie Morton. How they did not get in on Charlie Morton is beyond me, he's a stud and you would think the analytics team would advise that. He's making 10 mil and freaking CC is making 8
Morton is getting 15 per  
adamg : 6/23/2019 5:04 pm : link
And he was coming off of two good years rather than four.
RE: RE: RE: Happ is coming off 4 consecutive years  
Eman11 : 6/23/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14480715 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14480707 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14480703 adamg said:


Quote:


of sub 3.66 ERA, and he pitched to a sub 3 ERA for us in the last half of last year.



Based on the last four years, he's been a good pitcher, no doubt. But when you're saying high end starter, I want more than Ja Happ, that's what I'm wondering what Cashman definition of a high end starter. Also, with the team so analytic base, there were red flags projecting a decline in Happs performance, yet they shelled out 17 mil for 2 years, maybe three



That's fair. For the money Happ got, he should be doing better this year, for sure.


Agreed.

So far if hasn't been his year but he's a crafty vet and if he can straighten himself out and get right for the 2nd half, he'll be worth his salary.

As shaky as he's been the team has won a lot of the games he's started and I'd think if he improves even a little as I'd expect him to, that has to bode well for the team.

No doubt he could go the other way but I get the sense he's a gamer and won't just crumble but rather fight his way to be better.
RE: Morton is getting 15 per  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14480722 adamg said:
Quote:
And he was coming off of two good years rather than four.


Right 15, thought it was 3 yr 30 mil deal. He definitely showed higher upside though. But anyway, I wanted them to sign both of them
You're ignoring the addition of Paxton  
adamg : 6/23/2019 5:11 pm : link
And I'm not buying your Morton monday morning QBing. You genuinely wanted three new contracts on starting pitchers all older than 35 (CC, Happ, and Morton)? I thought the Paxton addition was better than most of the FA options.
RE: You're ignoring the addition of Paxton  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14480729 adamg said:
Quote:
And I'm not buying your Morton monday morning QBing. You genuinely wanted three new contracts on starting pitchers all older than 35 (CC, Happ, and Morton)? I thought the Paxton addition was better than most of the FA options.


I did not want to bring CC back. My premise is that yes Cashman got Paxton, I'm a fan, and Happ, wanted him back but didn't agree with the prcie and length, and called it an offseason. Thing is I wanted more and Morton was a guy I thought they should have considered, though I was praying for them to trade for Kluber, and hes been awful this year.
we  
Bill2 : 6/23/2019 5:34 pm : link
would not be talking about Happ or Morton if Severino and Betances and German were at their normal performance levels.

Of if Judge, Didi, Stanton and Andujar had not been injured.

It would have been 6-8 more wins to date and this would have just been a loss before going to the UK.
RE: we  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14480736 Bill2 said:
Quote:
would not be talking about Happ or Morton if Severino and Betances and German were at their normal performance levels.

Of if Judge, Didi, Stanton and Andujar had not been injured.

It would have been 6-8 more wins to date and this would have just been a loss before going to the UK.


Though with German we did not expect him to be that good early, it was a godsend. My thing was Paxton was the only addition to the staff, since Happ was there last year, I would have preferred another starter especially since you can't count on CC to pitch the whole year. Now I hope we can get a top starter by the deadline and sevy and German come back healthy
A sweep would've been nice, but 3 out of 4 is great, too.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/23/2019 5:45 pm : link
.
we lost the season series to them  
RasputinPrime : 6/23/2019 5:48 pm : link
which is a piss off considering how well we have been playing. DJ continues to show himself as our first half MVP and how about our pitchers today.........

Happ was one of Cashman`s few mistakes and it should have been clear from day one. He isn`t going to go head to head with Verlander or Cole, and we could easily have gotten the same value out of someone else in our system during the regular season. Puts even more pressure on Paxton being able to stay healthy and Sevy coming back strong.

It sucks every year not to be able to watch the old-timers game.
RE: we lost the season series to them  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14480745 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
which is a piss off considering how well we have been playing. DJ continues to show himself as our first half MVP and how about our pitchers today.........

Happ was one of Cashman`s few mistakes and it should have been clear from day one. He isn`t going to go head to head with Verlander or Cole, and we could easily have gotten the same value out of someone else in our system during the regular season. Puts even more pressure on Paxton being able to stay healthy and Sevy coming back strong.

It sucks every year not to be able to watch the old-timers game.


This. Happ based on his career is a solid guy to have, but he shouldn't stop you from further upgrading. The pressure is on now to get that guy by the deadlone
.  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2019 6:22 pm : link
Didn't catch the whole thread - but I remember Morton being a guy who may have been a bit specific about where he'd be willing to sign; so, he may just not have been a legitimate option for the Yanks.

He's been fantastic for TB, and the turn his career took after he left PIT/PHI has been really impressive. Obviously everyone here will remember him from his 2017 postseason performance in Game 7 after the Yanks crushed him earlier in the series.

Happ and the HR ball is just a massive problem - I was worried about it all the way back in the spring, but I hoped it was just a vet pitcher working out some kinks and working on some stuff. Seems like it's carried over into the season and hasn't really died down at all.

As of now, that's not a guy you can put on the mound in a postseason game. I still fully expect Cashman to make a trade for a pitcher within the next 3-4 weeks. He'll probably wait a bit and see how Severino progresses since that'll make a difference as far as the level of pitcher we're going to need.

In any event, there's no shame in taking 3 of 4 from the 'Stros. The pitching matchup today was just really not in our favor. Shit happens.

Take 2 of 3 from the Jays and then let's take both games in London.
Not happy with Happ or the loss  
Jints in Carolina : 6/23/2019 6:35 pm : link
but we just went 6-1 vs Tampa and Houston.
Boston and Minnesota lost.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/23/2019 6:36 pm : link
So, at least there's that.
RE: we  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2019 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14480736 Bill2 said:
Quote:
would not be talking about Happ or Morton if Severino and Betances and German were at their normal performance levels.

Of if Judge, Didi, Stanton and Andujar had not been injured.

It would have been 6-8 more wins to date and this would have just been a loss before going to the UK.


Agreed, Bill - but, that doesn't account for the fact that we've also played teams who have significant players out.

Houston is missing some important guys, too... like Springer, Correa and McCullers.

We got Cleveland with no Kluber or Carrasco.

No shame here, though - what the Yanks were able to do with the injuries they had was pretty damn impressive.

The rotation was actually fantastic in April when the lineup was hit super hard and we had so many backups and AAA guys in there.

Just for kicks, I looked at the numbers and we had the best starting pitching in the majors through April. In May, we were basically league average in the AL. There was a bit of a dropoff, but we started getting some hitters back and the run production started picking up a bit.

End of the day, I really like where the team is right now. The lineup is absolutely loaded. The pen is fantastic. If we can replace one of the long guys or Holder with Betances before the fall, we'll be in great shape there.

All we need to do is make sure the rotation is up to snuff.

Masa and a healthy Pax... I'll go to war with those two. But we need more than that. Sevy is going to be a major key. Fingers crossed on him. And regardless, I think Cashman makes a trade for a starter.
.  
Bill2 : 6/23/2019 6:58 pm : link
I think its reasonable to expect that 2 of 6 starting pitchers don't have the season one projects. Its the position where a 8% decline pulls in bad innings and scores and stresses the other pitchers. Where as a position player off by 8% from their norm performance may not be noticed.

Happ was intended as a 4th 5th starter and innings eater. As one of those goes, he is about average. Its always a role prone to fan condemnation for they have weaknesses that are bound to show up in some ugly losses.

I think good 1-3 starters are too expensive for the tradeable talent we currently have. Im expecting a bull pen arm first and then another arm of the current talent level of CC/Happ/German
RE: .  
Nine-Tails : 6/23/2019 7:11 pm : link
In comment 14480763 Bill2 said:
Quote:
I think its reasonable to expect that 2 of 6 starting pitchers don't have the season one projects. Its the position where a 8% decline pulls in bad innings and scores and stresses the other pitchers. Where as a position player off by 8% from their norm performance may not be noticed.

Happ was intended as a 4th 5th starter and innings eater. As one of those goes, he is about average. Its always a role prone to fan condemnation for they have weaknesses that are bound to show up in some ugly losses.

I think good 1-3 starters are too expensive for the tradeable talent we currently have. Im expecting a bull pen arm first and then another arm of the current talent level of CC/Happ/German


That's my thing, if we expected Happ to be a 4th starter, fine bring him back, he pitched well. But Cashman thought of him as a high end starter and rewarded him as such.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2019 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14480769 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14480763 Bill2 said:


Quote:


I think its reasonable to expect that 2 of 6 starting pitchers don't have the season one projects. Its the position where a 8% decline pulls in bad innings and scores and stresses the other pitchers. Where as a position player off by 8% from their norm performance may not be noticed.

Happ was intended as a 4th 5th starter and innings eater. As one of those goes, he is about average. Its always a role prone to fan condemnation for they have weaknesses that are bound to show up in some ugly losses.

I think good 1-3 starters are too expensive for the tradeable talent we currently have. Im expecting a bull pen arm first and then another arm of the current talent level of CC/Happ/German



That's my thing, if we expected Happ to be a 4th starter, fine bring him back, he pitched well. But Cashman thought of him as a high end starter and rewarded him as such.


He didn't really - a guy like Corbin got closer to 25M per year and got more years.

Jordan Zimmermann is making more than Happ is. His contract is terrible; but still.

Right now, obviously Happ's contract looks shitty and like an overpay. But, he's definitely not being paid as a TOR pitcher - other SP's who are projected to be TOR pitchers or aces who are getting new deals now are getting high 20's and even 30+ per year (deGrom, Verlander, Price, Scherzer, Kershaw, Sale, etc)

Happ is getting about half of what some of those guys are per year.

I thought it was smart to keep him around as a back end guy if he was going to pitch to his career numbers; but so far he's giving up way, way too many HR balls and has had too many bad starts.

To be clear, it looks like a rare misfire for Cashman - but we're not even halfway through yet. Happ could have a stronger second half and we've got to hope he does because we're going to need innings from our starters to preserve the pen.
.  
Bill2 : 6/23/2019 7:53 pm : link
im pretty sure that if we look at what was available that year, we will find Happ was not overpaid to market as a 4th slot pitcher. First of all, he cost 3 years. Theoretically, long enough for us to develop a 4th slot from the minors...or to tide us over until Montgomery comes back ( that was the plan) or we could trade what was then Andujar and Frazier and Estrada and Wade or Bird as promising minor leaguers for a 2nd/3rd/4th.

That was the plan

As a performing 4th slot pitcher who had a record of eating innings and pitching strong in Fenway.

Great signing? not so far. Disaster? hardly

The disaster was and is Ellsbury. Gray was but he got traded for equal value and cost us nothing in real value so far.

the real issue  
Bill2 : 6/23/2019 7:54 pm : link
is that we have done far better developing position players than pitchers
Admittedly I worry too much  
dune69 : 6/23/2019 8:06 pm : link
but I've been worried about these games in London. I do not want to see anyone (either team) get hurt on the London Stadium baseball field that has been constructed with a new artificial surface. It is a surface that is known and furnished by a US company, but I still worry that an outfielder will suffer an injury on a surface used for the first time. Hopefully I am all wet, wouldn't be the first time.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/23/2019 8:29 pm : link
Hopefully Deivi is the real deal. The Yanks are due to have a SP pan out and make it up to the bigs. They signed Sevy as an IFA back in '11 - and I'd say he's been a success. But there hasn't been much luck otherwise. I don't think this year is realistic for Garcia - but if he stays on track, we could see him at some point next year. Still just 20 years old.

There's Loaisiga and Abreu... Loaisiga is having a lot of trouble staying healthy and when he's been healthy, his outings have been very short. Abreu has been alright this year in Trenton.

Looks like trading Sheffield is no real loss so far... he's been bad in Tacoma for the Mariners. 6.87 ERA in 55 innings this year.

Any pitching help we get this year will have to come via getting healthy (Severino, German, Loaisiga... not really expecting anything from Montgo) or via trade.

So, I think we'll see an acquisition sometime in July which will be dependent on Sevy's progress.
Worth noting  
YANKEE28 : 6/23/2019 9:50 pm : link
that another injured Yankee has returned. Ben Heller, who has not pitched since 2017 has fully healed from his Tommy John surgery.

Today he was reinstated (believe it or not, the Yankees IL went from 12 down to 11) and pitched for High A Tampa.

Threw 21 pitches. Hit 96 MPH several times.

No way that Ben Heller is part of the 2019 Yankees, but a very possible option in 2020.
Yankees will be in the playoffs...  
M.S. : 6/24/2019 8:17 am : link

...I have NO DOUBT about that.

But what if we have a best of seven with Houston and face Verlander at least twice, if not thrice?

Guess we'll find out.
Glad they won series  
Carson53 : 6/24/2019 9:02 am : link
Happ is not looking like a good investment, bad location
is really costing him this year. He is getting hurt a lot, when he misses location.
He has given up 20 gopher balls, needs to keep them to solo shots, he is a flyball pitcher.
They need to find another starter, and get German back, even though he has an innings limit.
My expectations for Severino are tempered this year.
RE: .  
Carson53 : 6/24/2019 9:08 am : link
In comment 14480783 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Hopefully Deivi is the real deal. The Yanks are due to have a SP pan out and make it up to the bigs. They signed Sevy as an IFA back in '11 - and I'd say he's been a success. But there hasn't been much luck otherwise. I don't think this year is realistic for Garcia - but if he stays on track, we could see him at some point next year. Still just 20 years old.

There's Loaisiga and Abreu... Loaisiga is having a lot of trouble staying healthy and when he's been healthy, his outings have been very short. has been alright this year in Trenton.

Looks like trading Sheffield is no real loss so far... he's been bad in Tacoma for the Mariners. 6.87 ERA in 55 innings this year.

Any pitching help we get this year will have to come via getting healthy (Severino, German, Loaisiga... not really expecting anything from Montgo) or via trade.

So, I think we'll see an acquisition sometime in July which will be dependent on Sevy's progress.
.

Loaisiga had trouble staying healthy with the Giants,
that's how he wound up here in the first place.
He was a Rule V pickup I believe, and he has only proven that when healthy, he has arm talent.
He still needs to learn how to pitch up here...
He wasn't Rule V  
Greg from LI : 6/24/2019 9:15 am : link
He was a minor league free agent. The Giants cut him loose because of the injuries.
Life is good right now  
Stu11 : 6/24/2019 11:22 am : link
no need to hand ring about the SP right now. See if Sevi can make it back in the 2nd half and you know Cash will get a SP. Those playoff series are not going to be decided by Verlander pitching 3 games(Which he won't any way) they are going to be decided by the pens, and no matter how good they pitch every other game the Stro's pen always shits the bed vs. the Yanks at the stadium in a big spot. The most important thing is getting home field vs. the Stros in a series. The Twins? I don't give a shit where we play them. We own them and they know it. No way in hell they beat us with the pitching they have right now.
.  
Jints in Carolina : 6/24/2019 12:33 pm : link

YES Network
@YESNetwork
Some amazing DJ LeMahieu facts:

- Leads MLB in hits with RISP (32)
- Leads MLB in BA with RISP (.478)
- Leads all Yankees in hits (93)
- Leads all Yankees in BA (.322)
- Has 30 multi-hit games
- Has 1+ hit in 56 of 71 games
- BA has not dipped below .272
RE: .  
Stu11 : 6/24/2019 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14481144 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:

YES Network
@YESNetwork
Some amazing DJ LeMahieu facts:

- Leads MLB in hits with RISP (32)
- Leads MLB in BA with RISP (.478)
- Leads all Yankees in hits (93)
- Leads all Yankees in BA (.322)
- Has 30 multi-hit games
- Has 1+ hit in 56 of 71 games
- BA has not dipped below .272

Quite simply he's been the team MVP of the 1st half.
RE: RE: .  
adamg : 6/24/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14481323 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14481144 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:



YES Network
@YESNetwork
Some amazing DJ LeMahieu facts:

- Leads MLB in hits with RISP (32)
- Leads MLB in BA with RISP (.478)
- Leads all Yankees in hits (93)
- Leads all Yankees in BA (.322)
- Has 30 multi-hit games
- Has 1+ hit in 56 of 71 games
- BA has not dipped below .272


Quite simply he's been the team MVP of the 1st half.


I agree. And Sanchez is having an MVP caliber season at the C spot. Which just shows how spectacular DJ has been that he seems to be edging out Gary a little bit in MVP terms.
RE: RE: RE: .  
section125 : 6/24/2019 3:35 pm : link
In comment 14481325 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14481323 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14481144 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:



YES Network
@YESNetwork
Some amazing DJ LeMahieu facts:

- Leads MLB in hits with RISP (32)
- Leads MLB in BA with RISP (.478)
- Leads all Yankees in hits (93)
- Leads all Yankees in BA (.322)
- Has 30 multi-hit games
- Has 1+ hit in 56 of 71 games
- BA has not dipped below .272


Quite simply he's been the team MVP of the 1st half.



I agree. And Sanchez is having an MVP caliber season at the C spot. Which just shows how spectacular DJ has been that he seems to be edging out Gary a little bit in MVP terms.


I would pick LeMahieu right now, but an exceedingly strong argument can be made for Gary Sanchez. It would be hard to pick between the two. And Sanchez's defense has been very good IMHO this season.

They are not 21 games over .500 without both.
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