Figured it made sense to start a new thread now that the draft is over with and we're moving on to FA. Not much news today except:
1) Bondy said the Knicks aren't expected to have interest in signing Russell if he becomes UFA. Thinks they'll sign guys to 1 year deals if they strike out on KD, Kawhi, Kyrie rather than go after Russell and other similar FA's with max offers.
2) Jalen Rose thinks KD is headed to NY -- specifically the Knicks. Here's what he said:
| "The Knicks," Rose predicted. "I still feel like if you're going to leave the Golden State Warriors, it's not just about the rings; he got two there. It's not just about the money; he can get more there. It's the stage. If you're gonna come to New York City, that's at MSG." |
Noteworthy because Rose is a roc nation client and therefore has ties to Kleiman. Of course, he may know nothing and is sharing his opinion but who knows.
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is gonna score 30 in one of these Summer League games and get us all excited.
I was told both Hinton and VJ King (despite the terrible numbers) were both viewed as having "NBA upside. Cavanaugh was actually "not bad" as a rookie with the Jazz so presumably, he's one to watch to make the roster as well. I don't know anything about Lamar Peters
Guys like that may be lights-out shooters but if they can't guard anyone they're just seaglass, not diamonds in the rough. The flip side of that is Frank: He can't seem to do a damned thing on offense but he can guard pretty much anyone, so he's been able to stick around while he (hopefully) improves his shooting.
You know what I'll bet on modern medicine and Durant regaining his form in his early 30's...
because there is not a FA waiting to come here in the next season or two.
Plus you lock in the benefit of Durant in 2020-21 while still getting the benefit of tanking, more or less, in 2019-20.
Somebody long ago said that George Foster deserved more credit than he got for the Mets' 80s turnaround because he was the first guy who came voluntarily, and at the time they were a joke. (Literally a joke. Keith Hernandez said in an interview that when the Cardinals pulled up to Shea in the team bus in the early 80s and saw a big ad banner that said "The Magic is Back!," he and his teammates burst out laughing.) Foster underperformed in NY and had a sour split with the club, but his decision to come to the Mets mattered. Durant and the Knicks are in the same situation.
Durant > Foster but the current Knicks = early 80s Mets. We just hope Durant is better at basketball when he comes back than George Foster was at baseball during his tenure with the Mets.
Irving is hell on young players, is wacky with the media and is playing on 89 year old knees.
In fact, if the Knicks can’t get Durant or Leonard, I would prefer if they retain their space, signing vets who would take a one-year deal and build around RJ and the young players.
Knicks would get another lottery pick next year, and while the FA list is weak next season, there is no doubt a star or two will want out of some NBA team and then the Knicks could pounce.
If you have no quarterback, that wouldn't be the worst thing you could do.
Rodgers is 35. Durant is 30. And yes Rodgers would get a “Max” contract if he was a FA.
When did Durant become a washed up player in his late 30s? I understand the severity of the injury but he is a 30 year old at the top of the game.
Amare Stoudemire's injury is different. That was a skeletal issue.
But what I mean by down side is this: if you dont sign him, it's the same as signing him and his health not working out. The Knicks will not be doing any serious contending without a player in his class. So swing for the fences. The worst case scenario is you're in the same place you're in right now. And there isnt a free agent that could have the same impact coming in the future.
Unless you want to get back on the treadmill and pretend Giannis will want a trade two years from now.
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Remember Amare Stoudemire and his contract?
Amare Stoudemire's injury is different. That was a skeletal issue.
But what I mean by down side is this: if you dont sign him, it's the same as signing him and his health not working out. The Knicks will not be doing any serious contending without a player in his class. So swing for the fences. The worst case scenario is you're in the same place you're in right now. And there isnt a free agent that could have the same impact coming in the future.
Unless you want to get back on the treadmill and pretend Giannis will want a trade two years from now.
You're really underestimating the risks associated with surgery to repair an achilles.
Also, worst case scenario is worse than where we are now because we would lose the flexibility that we currently have.
You're also acting as if nothing will change from the current 6/25/19 NBA landscape. What if AD does hit free agency next season? What if Lillard or some other star asks for a trade? What if RJ Barrett turns into a star?
It's easy to sit her today and say there is no downside to signing Durant, but there is significant risk involved.
I may be in the minority but I think signing him would be a classic Knicks move of getting the name but not the player. Look at the final years of Kobe: Great name but a shell of his former self. Now let's look at Durant. Assume he comes back more or less a year from now. When the 2020 season starts, he'll be 32 (born Sept. 29, 1988) and has three years left on a max contract. Do I trust that a 32 year old, with a LOT of mileage, after a year of injury absence and intense rehab, comes back as an allstar player? That he leads the Knicks to the promised land? And stays injury free at 33 and 34? That's a lot to base your whole free agency plan on.
I may be in the minority but I think signing him would be a classic Knicks move of getting the name but not the player. Look at the final years of Kobe: Great name but a shell of his former self. Now let's look at Durant. Assume he comes back more or less a year from now. When the 2020 season starts, he'll be 32 (born Sept. 29, 1988) and has three years left on a max contract. Do I trust that a 32 year old, with a LOT of mileage, after a year of injury absence and intense rehab, comes back as an allstar player? That he leads the Knicks to the promised land? And stays injury free at 33 and 34? That's a lot to base your whole free agency plan on.
Additionally, the lead surgeon at HSS seems to think that the calf/achilles is a big red flag for Durant being prone to future injury.
Do you think he won’t recover and be able to play again? Do you think he will be that diminished that he won’t be worth a max contract? Because even if he loses 25% of his athleticism he’s still a Dirk Nowitzki type player.
I really don’t see a scenario where their money you’ll be spending on him could be better spent in the Knicks current situation. And the upside is having one of the greatest players ever ages 32-34.
I’d love to hear a better scenario or plan but I don’t see a realistic one. You’ll be waiting a long time until the Knicks have a legit chance at a player of his caliber.
Do you think he won’t recover and be able to play again? Do you think he will be that diminished that he won’t be worth a max contract? Because even if he loses 25% of his athleticism he’s still a Dirk Nowitzki type player.
I really don’t see a scenario where their money you’ll be spending on him could be better spent in the Knicks current situation. And the upside is having one of the greatest players ever ages 32-34.
I’d love to hear a better scenario or plan but I don’t see a realistic one. You’ll be waiting a long time until the Knicks have a legit chance at a player of his caliber.
I really don't understand Knicks fans talking down an injury as less significant than a leading doctor seems to think.
But that's what makes the world go round I suppose.
Now you go into next season and view Durant as a new addition to the team on a 3 year contract. Even if he comes back at 80%, he's probably still an All-Star and worth what he's being paid. Either way, just having him on the team next summer makes the team much more likely to be able to attract a second star. In the worst case scenario where he can't recover from the injury and is a bum, you're only on the hook with him for 3 years and he comes off the books right as the young core is hitting their prime.
Now you go into next season and view Durant as a new addition to the team on a 3 year contract. Even if he comes back at 80%, he's probably still an All-Star and worth what he's being paid. Either way, just having him on the team next summer makes the team much more likely to be able to attract a second star. In the worst case scenario where he can't recover from the injury and is a bum, you're only on the hook with him for 3 years and he comes off the books right as the young core is hitting their prime.
How are you guys reading the future? With what crystal ball?
Why can't the Knicks build a winner without Durant? No other younger stars will want to be traded? Barrett won't amount to anything?
Depends on who the vets are and are they willing to be team players or are they just going to try and get theres
What does RJ do?
does knox take the next step?
does smith take the next step?
does robinson take the next step?
a lot of if's
I'd say 25 at most. We have some young talent, but if we're starting Smith Jr., Barrett and Knox, teams will score 150 points against us.
Realistic is miss the playoffs and back to the lottery, IMO
They'll be the worst team in the league. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing if their young players improve and Barrett flashes. But they will enter the season with the worst roster and it's not really close. 25 wins might be hard to achieve.
But it might not be the worst thing. You are guaranteed another top 5 pick and hopefully finally have some lottery luck. Could also absorb a couple 1 year contracts from teams looking to duck the luxury tax and get a couple extra picks- albeit late protected 1sts. But they desperately need to build up their talent base.
Crappy. One of the worst (on paper) in years (yes, very very early)
Oregon sophomore power forward Kenny Wooten Jr. has committed to signing to the Knicks’ summer-league team and likely will be given a chance to make the main roster in training camp, according to a source. Wooten tweeted out “New York Knicks” in the morning.
The club had talked about bringing in more defensive-minded players and the shot-blocking 6-9 Wooten Jr. is regarded as an athletic defensive specialist. He was Pac 12 First Team All-Defense his two seasons with the Ducks. He averaged 2.2 blocks per game and finished third in career blocked shots at Oregon.
Oregon sophomore power forward Kenny Wooten Jr. has committed to signing to the Knicks’ summer-league team and likely will be given a chance to make the main roster in training camp, according to a source. Wooten tweeted out “New York Knicks” in the morning.
The club had talked about bringing in more defensive-minded players and the shot-blocking 6-9 Wooten Jr. is regarded as an athletic defensive specialist. He was Pac 12 First Team All-Defense his two seasons with the Ducks. He averaged 2.2 blocks per game and finished third in career blocked shots at Oregon.
I have no idea if this particular guy is any good, but this is the type of player they need to go along with the young players that they actually have.
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Of the draft next year?
Crappy. One of the worst (on paper) in years (yes, very very early)
The Knicks have the best luck...
Oregon sophomore power forward Kenny Wooten Jr. has committed to signing to the Knicks’ summer-league team and likely will be given a chance to make the main roster in training camp, according to a source. Wooten tweeted out “New York Knicks” in the morning.
The club had talked about bringing in more defensive-minded players and the shot-blocking 6-9 Wooten Jr. is regarded as an athletic defensive specialist. He was Pac 12 First Team All-Defense his two seasons with the Ducks. He averaged 2.2 blocks per game and finished third in career blocked shots at Oregon.
Super athletic guy. His offensive game is basically the same as Mitch's. Putbacks and lobs. Attempted Zero 3pt shots in college. His defense will have to carry him in the NBA.
Has tons of block highlights like this - ( New Window )
woot woot - ( New Window )
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The Knicks aren't winning anything this year (unless they beat the odds and sign Kawhi), so having Durant redshirt a year is irrelevant, and could actually be viewed as a positive because it allows the young guys a chance to develop, and most likely ends up with the team having another high draft pick next year.
Now you go into next season and view Durant as a new addition to the team on a 3 year contract. Even if he comes back at 80%, he's probably still an All-Star and worth what he's being paid. Either way, just having him on the team next summer makes the team much more likely to be able to attract a second star. In the worst case scenario where he can't recover from the injury and is a bum, you're only on the hook with him for 3 years and he comes off the books right as the young core is hitting their prime.
How are you guys reading the future? With what crystal ball?
Why can't the Knicks build a winner without Durant? No other younger stars will want to be traded? Barrett won't amount to anything?
It takes a crystal ball to see that the Knicks are going to suck next year? The path to relevance next season was a healthy Durant plus Irving. With Durant going down, unless they sign Kawhi Leonard and a second star to go along with him, who are they bringing in that is going to turn around a 17 win team?
They were the worst team in the league last year. Adding RJ Barrett and someone like Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker isn't turning this into a good team in 2020.
Good point. This falls on Perry, too. He talks quite a bit about his Detroit teams that played defense and shared the ball, and continues to bring in iso players who don't play defense. These guys talk a big game - now we need a little something to show for it.
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Of the draft next year?
Crappy. One of the worst (on paper) in years (yes, very very early)
I feel like this is said every single year and always proves to be wrong. At this time last year the 2019 class was viewed as a one player draft (RJ Barrett), Zion and Ja Morant weren't even considered top 3 picks, Morant I don't even think was considered as a lottery pick.
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In comment 14482143 GMEN46 said:
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Of the draft next year?
Crappy. One of the worst (on paper) in years (yes, very very early)
I feel like this is said every single year and always proves to be wrong. At this time last year the 2019 class was viewed as a one player draft (RJ Barrett), Zion and Ja Morant weren't even considered top 3 picks, Morant I don't even think was considered as a lottery pick.
Zion Williamson was one of the top HS prospects in over a decade. This seems revisionist. He wasn't supposed to be THIS good but he didn't exactly come out of nowhere. Every pre-season mock I have come across had Barrett and Williamson as top 3-5 picks, Reddish and Langford being the biggest "fallers" This also ended up being a poor top of a draft on paper. I have seen pretty close to a consensus this is a very poor draft year coming up. I wouldn't use this year as proof that the "projections" are wrong. It was a poor draft year on paper.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I dont think the knicks plan on tanking again
He also said that it could come down to who can get a sign and trade done since he wants that 5th year
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“What I’m hearing is that Kevin Durant will be walking through one door in New York and it’s going to come down to a battle between those two teams. He’s not happy with the way it went down with Golden State so it’s a matter of the Knicks or Nets at this stage. The Warriors medical staff told KD what they told Steve Kerr; that he couldn’t get hurt worse than he had been. They either misdiagnosed his injury, screwed it up, or didn’t give him a clear view of the potential risk. They got it wrong and Durant is paying the price. From everything I’m hearing, Kevin Durant is not happy by that fact.”
He also said that it could come down to who can get a sign and trade done since he wants that 5th year
well then he is just making shit up, because you cant do a sign and trade and get the 5 years
Not sure what FAs are available next year or if a 2nd superstar will be available via trade, but that gives them an opportunity to compete short term (i.e. near prime level Durant + 2nd max) and long term (Barrett, Knox, Robinson, high 2020 pick, etc).
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In comment 14482228 TyreeHelmet said:
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“What I’m hearing is that Kevin Durant will be walking through one door in New York and it’s going to come down to a battle between those two teams. He’s not happy with the way it went down with Golden State so it’s a matter of the Knicks or Nets at this stage. The Warriors medical staff told KD what they told Steve Kerr; that he couldn’t get hurt worse than he had been. They either misdiagnosed his injury, screwed it up, or didn’t give him a clear view of the potential risk. They got it wrong and Durant is paying the price. From everything I’m hearing, Kevin Durant is not happy by that fact.”
He also said that it could come down to who can get a sign and trade done since he wants that 5th year
well then he is just making shit up, because you cant do a sign and trade and get the 5 years
You could do an opt in and trade though. KD opts into the final year, gets dealt to NYK or BK and then he can sign a 5 year max next summer.