I said this previously.....I don't think we'll ever see our 'A' lineup that we all talk about. Yanks simply refuse to play all their best players at once.
I can NEVER recall a team that would simply never put it's best lineup on the field. It would always be the norm to have you regular lineup playing....and the execution would be when you'd give a guy a day off. But with this team the norm is to have two guys resting on any given day.
While I'm bummed we still don't have the full lineup Â
I think most of this is that so we can see the "A" lineup on a more regular basis in the Fall when we're going to need it the most.
This is all cumulative load management and what their data tells them will get optimal performance out of each player over the long-term.
As a fan from the outside, of course I just want to see our best lineup out there, but based on results to date, it's hard for me to really question what they're doing. Quite simply, it's working. The Mariners are the only team who has plated more runs than NYY this month.
I said this previously.....I don't think we'll ever see our 'A' lineup that we all talk about. Yanks simply refuse to play all their best players at once.
I can NEVER recall a team that would simply never put it's best lineup on the field. It would always be the norm to have you regular lineup playing....and the execution would be when you'd give a guy a day off. But with this team the norm is to have two guys resting on any given day.
I suspect we will here and there...but I also think some guys have been playing everyday and were overdue for a couple days off (DJ, Voit, Gleyber) and others are going to have their playing time 'managed' as they're coming back from injuries (Hicks, Stanton, Judge)
It's a luxury to be able to sit Judge and Encarnacion tonight and still roll out the lineup we are
Do they really have both Thursday and Friday off? Â
I am heading off to Disney World from Saturday until July 5 so I am 99.9% sure I won't be making the game day threads...Someone has to run with the ball....you better not start a losing streak!
The Death Star'll be an occasional thing. We'll need to savor it in the regular season.
And I agree with arc, that we'll see the Death Star every day once we get to the post season. And isn't that when we really want to see it anyway?
Yes no question but I'd sure like to see it when we play the Sox.
I know we're sitting in good shape as far as the Division goes but there's still a lot of season left. I want that Division title and hopefully home field too but the Division is big for me. I hate the one game WC, and potential one and done.
Those Sox games are two game swings in the standings and hopefully we see the Death Star in the majority of those games. If we open up a double digit division lead that's different but as long as the Sox (or even the Rays) are a bad week away from catching up, I'd like to see our best on the field when we play them.
JMHO of course and not saying the Yanks have to do it or they're wrong, just what I'd like and hope to see.
would bet the first time you see the "ultimate" lineup is going to be Saturday vs the Sox. That lineup will only be trotted out following ample rest during the regular season, they wont make one of their top players sit for 3 days (the two off days and Saturday); that's just overkill.
I can't say I wouldn't like to see them put out monster line ups everyday, but I trust them to play the long game.
And I do think we benefit from home field a lot too and that they should take that into consideration.
But at the end of the day, any regular season game means nothing compared to the postseason.
I agree with ya. I know I've questioned them sometimes and would've liked to see guys play more but yes, the results can't be argued with.
No doubt we'd all like to see their best every day but they have the depth to keep everyone fresh and sharp too.
While the post season is the most important, I think setting ourselves up as best as possible to succeed there is important too. That's why the Division is big for me, and playing our best guys as much as possible in the big division games is important too.
Let em rest vs the O's and the also fans of the AL.
Of course this is a bit of "whining" but aside from Romine, even the bench is part of the Death Star and Romine had big HR the other night.
Right now the three "weakest" players are:(think about this)
1.) Romine - backup catcher
2.) Hicks - switch hitting allstar quality defensive CF
3.) Gardner - allstar quality defensive LF
Happ and Holder don't count or they would be #1 and #2.
Gardner isn't an allstar caliber player at this point in his career, but he is best 4th outfielder in the league
Gardner IS still one of the best LFers in baseball. He doesn't hit well anymore and he isn't even Brett Gardner of two years ago in the OF, but he is still a very good LF and I'd still say a VG CF. He was so good that we are judging him against himself not others.
Gardner is quietly on pace for a bunch of homeruns Â
One of the many reasons its fun to watch the Yankees these days is the methodical search for differential advantage
Back in Georges day we looked for star players
Then Gene Michael introduced some home grown developed players
Then during the wind down and transition we wound up with a mix...a misshapen mix
Then this new renaissance. What I enjoy now is adding the advantage the FO brings in grinding out finds and depth and ways to aim for the end point even in June ( in managing the workloads) and investing in pitch recognition technology and dual language courses in the minors and more coaches, video and analysis deeper into the minors.
I think they are going to surprise us in the trading period. I think the original plan called for an even more dominant bullpen. Whats more important...the Astros and the Sox need better bullpens. We could use a depth starter but I think the aim will be making sure any really good bullpen arms come to us. Whats more, offseason, we can always trade one for a good return
It really has become a ridiculous machine. The well run teams are just on another level. I don't remember baseball being as polarized between elite, untouchable playoff teams and then the rest which includes the usual mix of good and bad. In other words, the rich are richer than ever I can remember.
Competitive advantages have definitely stretched way beyond payroll.
Years ago, if you could outspend other teams on players, you could usually edge them out.
Now; investments need to be made in so many other areas. Teams like NYY have constructed very significant analytic departments. There's so much player data being collected that they find uses for - including what was touched on earlier in the thread regarding rest days and optimizing player performance.
In the past, you'd basically have your "A" lineup out there most days and then you'd give guys a blow here and there and that was really it. There wasn't the same amount of analysis going on behind lineup construction - the thinkings were so much more conventional.
Now, with the Yanks, you almost never see the same lineup 2 days in a row.
Basically, if you're not following suit with the teams that have moved ahead and are investing heavily in analytics and other data; you're probably not going to have a very good chance at competing. Teams stuck in the past are going to get left in the dust until they change their approach.
Notice this way of playing, with its emphasis on depth and multiple positions for some players plus signing your core early could not have worked if lots of payroll was stuck for years on Harper or Machado. They got those decisions right.
Even the use of the DH is different than its original model of a hitter who could not field
Passing on Machado and Harper definitely look to be good decisions at this point.
The Phillies are in a tailspin right now and the Pads are under .500 even with Machado. It just doesn't seem like these massive spends yield the ROI.
DJ has flat been a more valuable player than Machado to date this year - and the investment on DJ is tiny compared to what it would have taken to sign Manny.
Sometimes, the megadeals just seem lazy to me. There are often much better values out there if the teams know what they're looking for and can find the right fits like we've done with LeMahieu.
Being so invested in player data and specific numbers will open doors to much smarter signings and deals - which is why Cashman seems to so often win his trades and wind up inking productive players.
Passing on Machado and Harper definitely look to be good decisions at this point.
The Phillies are in a tailspin right now and the Pads are under .500 even with Machado. It just doesn't seem like these massive spends yield the ROI.
DJ has flat been a more valuable player than Machado to date this year - and the investment on DJ is tiny compared to what it would have taken to sign Manny.
Sometimes, the megadeals just seem lazy to me. There are often much better values out there if the teams know what they're looking for and can find the right fits like we've done with LeMahieu.
Being so invested in player data and specific numbers will open doors to much smarter signings and deals - which is why Cashman seems to so often win his trades and wind up inking productive players.
I agree. You'll appreciate this, given your history. But, in the time I lived in the DMV area and was following the Nats via the local news, the best move the Nats made was stealing Daniel Murphy from the Mets on the cheap. The DJ signing seems like a reiteration of that.
RE: RE: RE: That looked like it should have been Judge's Â
I can't believe fricken McKinney made a great play in right to save a run. Of all people to do well in the field.
I wasn't a fan of including him in the deal for Happ last year. Unless the BJs were really high on him, I figured we might need the depth. He is a solid platoon OFer.
I can't believe fricken McKinney made a great play in right to save a run. Of all people to do well in the field.
I wasn't a fan of including him in the deal for Happ last year. Unless the BJs were really high on him, I figured we might need the depth. He is a solid platoon OFer.
Well his numbers look awful this year. So at least it hasn't hurt us in the short run.
The guy's physical tools are A+. No doubt about that.
I guess I'm just greedy and wish he had the instincts and baseball smarts of a Jeter or ARod. He's young enough to develop them more and here's hoping he does.
I guess I'm more thinking about just this game and not managing a team. You can't take out a starter there in the regular season I guess. In the postseason, maybe?
Holder really having a tough go of it lately. He's made his way down to mop up duty in the pecking order... I think Boone will go to Hale before he goes to Holder in more of a leverage spot if the other guys aren't available.
Definitely the time to try and get Holder straightened out Â
in the fucking world did they let Holder stay out there to give up that grand slam?
1st and 2nd with a run already in he should have been batter to batter. Second the bases are loaded he needed to come out.
Boone has done a terrific job this year, but that was brutal. I know the bullpen has been taxed, but 10-2 should never wind up 10-7 without an out being recorded. He didn't have it and hasn't had it in a long time. Assuming he has options left he needs to be sent down. If he doesn't he needs to be DFA'd. His stuff is average at best, I know he's been decent in the past but he's a disaster right now. If he doesn't have an option left he either needs to be DFA'd or come up with a mysterious injury
is significantly worse right now than Clippard ever was on the Yanks even when he sucked. It would be a significant improvement for him to pitch like 2017 Clippard.
but anyone who thinks he stinks as a manager when the team has played .600+ baseball despite being decimated by injuries the entire year has no idea what the hell they are watching.
He screwed that up but on no planet is he a bad manager.
that they left him in. They virtually gave him every inch of rope to hang himself, and he did. Now they can send him down, knowing they gave him every chance to get right in the bigs.
There's plenty I don't like about his style but talent covers many shortcomings and this team has talent. We are not in first because of Boone nor despite him.
time. He probably lost Green as the opener tomorrow. I guess if he sends Holder down and Tarpley(or Adams) comes up, they can use him or Adams.
Greenie might still be able to give us an inning tomorrow - he didn't have to work too hard tonight.
I think they'll most likely go with Cortes/Hale to get them through 5-6+ - and I could also see Tarpley being recalled if they do decide to send Holder down to SWB.
I didn't mind leaving in Holder with the bases loaded Â
It was a 10-3 game. I don't care that he wasn't pitching well at the time. The odds of a grand slam are very low and even with a GS it is still a 3-run lead in the 8th with many strong bullpen arms at their disposal should it become a three-run lead.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
It was a 10-3 game. I don't care that he wasn't pitching well at the time. The odds of a grand slam are very low and even with a GS it is still a 3-run lead in the 8th with many strong bullpen arms at their disposal should it become a three-run lead.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
https://gregstoll.com/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#V.3.8.0.1.2014.2018 - ( New Window )
Very low odds with Holder pitching as he has been lately? Not that low.
RE: RE: updated list in the history of the Yankees Â
It was a 10-3 game. I don't care that he wasn't pitching well at the time. The odds of a grand slam are very low and even with a GS it is still a 3-run lead in the 8th with many strong bullpen arms at their disposal should it become a three-run lead.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
https://gregstoll.com/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#V.3.8.0.1.2014.2018 - ( New Window )
Very low odds with Holder pitching as he has been lately? Not that low.
One thing about Boone is that he always waits for shit to hit the fan before making a move. I remember the good days with Girardis quick hook.
The flip side of Boone having a long leash, is the trust he places in his guys, gotta imagine that helps.
I don't know that that's always the case. Boone seems more selective imo. Some nights he has a quicker hook than other nights. Girardi just seemed to always have a quick hook. I think I prefer Boone's approach. I think it's better for the players, and I think the players respond to it. Like the way he let CC finish the 6th.
of the time in that spot (which is unrealistically high), that means that the Yankees still had a 99% chance to win the game at 10-3 bases loaded.
The disagreement was about the odds on Holder giving up a grand slam in that situation, which you postulated were "very low," not whether the Yankees would win anyway even if he did give one up -- as he did.
No corresponding move yet, my guess is Tarpley who last pitched 3 days ago and adds another lefty to the pen.
Albert Abreu is on the 40 man roster and has pitched quite well his last 3-4 starts for AA Trenton. He last pitched on the 19th so his normal start day is today - ***SUPER LONG SHOT, but the Yanks may need a stretched out arm tonight on standby in the event of long-extras.
No corresponding move yet, my guess is Tarpley who last pitched 3 days ago and adds another lefty to the pen.
Albert Abreu is on the 40 man roster and has pitched quite well his last 3-4 starts for AA Trenton. He last pitched on the 19th so his normal start day is today - ***SUPER LONG SHOT, but the Yanks may need a stretched out arm tonight on standby in the event of long-extras.
The guy's team is rattling off win after win after win and he's doing it with 4 starting pitchers, 2 of which are ideally number #5 guys in a rotation.
He took a risk in a spot where he could avoid to take a risk. It blew up in his face.....and his team still won by 2 runs!
I'd have sent Holder down weeks ago...so I probably wouldn't have handled it exactly the same way last night...but how can you not at least see his angle?
RE: Eeeesh you take that win and move on when you're on a roll Â
I didn't mind leaving in Holder with the bases loaded
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/24/2019 10:30 pm : link : reply
It was a 10-3 game. I don't care that he wasn't pitching well at the time. The odds of a grand slam are very low and even with a GS it is still a 3-run lead in the 8th with many strong bullpen arms at their disposal should it become a three-run lead.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
.
There's another game today. Chapman won't be able to pitch today if needed. Green was supposed to start the game today. It's not about the win probability for the next hour. Games aren't played in a vacuum.
The guy's team is rattling off win after win after win and he's doing it with 4 starting pitchers, 2 of which are ideally number #5 guys in a rotation.
He took a risk in a spot where he could avoid to take a risk. It blew up in his face.....and his team still won by 2 runs!
I'd have sent Holder down weeks ago...so I probably wouldn't have handled it exactly the same way last night...but how can you not at least see his angle?
Yep you really have to stretch it like a pretzel to find a way to criticize Boone at this point. There were nights this 1st half where we put out a mediocre AAA lineup, and here we are 5 games up in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Pitchers in the Majors have to get guys out. Especially in a 10-2 game. You can't use your elite relievers in a 10-3 game in the 8th. Especially when your SP's are giving you 5 max 6 innings a night.
I hope so. I love when the Yanks bring in/retain NY guys. I pray they extend Betances.
He's been making diving plays at first this past week. He's not a complete scrub in the field.
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Needs a blow, that DH'ing can be a killer.
He's been making diving plays at first this past week. He's not a complete scrub in the field.
I think he will push Voit at 1st. I like it. EE made some nice plays over there.
Still waiting on full Death Star lineup, not that this one is bad.
I can NEVER recall a team that would simply never put it's best lineup on the field. It would always be the norm to have you regular lineup playing....and the execution would be when you'd give a guy a day off. But with this team the norm is to have two guys resting on any given day.
This is all cumulative load management and what their data tells them will get optimal performance out of each player over the long-term.
As a fan from the outside, of course I just want to see our best lineup out there, but based on results to date, it's hard for me to really question what they're doing. Quite simply, it's working. The Mariners are the only team who has plated more runs than NYY this month.
So, the production is there.
I can NEVER recall a team that would simply never put it's best lineup on the field. It would always be the norm to have you regular lineup playing....and the execution would be when you'd give a guy a day off. But with this team the norm is to have two guys resting on any given day.
I suspect we will here and there...but I also think some guys have been playing everyday and were overdue for a couple days off (DJ, Voit, Gleyber) and others are going to have their playing time 'managed' as they're coming back from injuries (Hicks, Stanton, Judge)
It's a luxury to be able to sit Judge and Encarnacion tonight and still roll out the lineup we are
flying to London for the Sox series
A little extra time for the London trip.
And I agree with arc, that we'll see the Death Star every day once we get to the post season. And isn't that when we really want to see it anyway?
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What’s the deal with that?
flying to London for the Sox series
Oh shoot, that’s right. Thanks!
Here's a link to the event - ( New Window )
And I agree with arc, that we'll see the Death Star every day once we get to the postseason. And isn't that when we really want to see it anyway?
Of course this is a bit of "whining" but aside from Romine, even the bench is part of the Death Star and Romine had big HR the other night.
Right now the three "weakest" players are:(think about this)
1.) Romine - backup catcher
2.) Hicks - switch hitting allstar quality defensive CF
3.) Gardner - allstar quality defensive LF
Happ and Holder don't count or they would be #1 and #2.
And I agree with arc, that we'll see the Death Star every day once we get to the post season. And isn't that when we really want to see it anyway?
Yes no question but I'd sure like to see it when we play the Sox.
I know we're sitting in good shape as far as the Division goes but there's still a lot of season left. I want that Division title and hopefully home field too but the Division is big for me. I hate the one game WC, and potential one and done.
Those Sox games are two game swings in the standings and hopefully we see the Death Star in the majority of those games. If we open up a double digit division lead that's different but as long as the Sox (or even the Rays) are a bad week away from catching up, I'd like to see our best on the field when we play them.
JMHO of course and not saying the Yanks have to do it or they're wrong, just what I'd like and hope to see.
And I do think we benefit from home field a lot too and that they should take that into consideration.
But at the end of the day, any regular season game means nothing compared to the postseason.
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The Death Star'll be an occasional thing. We'll need to savor it in the regular season.
And I agree with arc, that we'll see the Death Star every day once we get to the postseason. And isn't that when we really want to see it anyway?
Of course this is a bit of "whining" but aside from Romine, even the bench is part of the Death Star and Romine had big HR the other night.
Right now the three "weakest" players are:(think about this)
1.) Romine - backup catcher
2.) Hicks - switch hitting allstar quality defensive CF
3.) Gardner - allstar quality defensive LF
Happ and Holder don't count or they would be #1 and #2.
Gardner isn't an allstar caliber player at this point in his career, but he is best 4th outfielder in the league
And I do think we benefit from home field a lot too and that they should take that into consideration.
But at the end of the day, any regular season game means nothing compared to the postseason.
I agree with ya. I know I've questioned them sometimes and would've liked to see guys play more but yes, the results can't be argued with.
No doubt we'd all like to see their best every day but they have the depth to keep everyone fresh and sharp too.
While the post season is the most important, I think setting ourselves up as best as possible to succeed there is important too. That's why the Division is big for me, and playing our best guys as much as possible in the big division games is important too.
Let em rest vs the O's and the also fans of the AL.
Of course this is a bit of "whining" but aside from Romine, even the bench is part of the Death Star and Romine had big HR the other night.
Right now the three "weakest" players are:(think about this)
1.) Romine - backup catcher
2.) Hicks - switch hitting allstar quality defensive CF
3.) Gardner - allstar quality defensive LF
Happ and Holder don't count or they would be #1 and #2.
Gardner isn't an allstar caliber player at this point in his career, but he is best 4th outfielder in the league
Gardner IS still one of the best LFers in baseball. He doesn't hit well anymore and he isn't even Brett Gardner of two years ago in the OF, but he is still a very good LF and I'd still say a VG CF. He was so good that we are judging him against himself not others.
And he's still fast as hell.
Never sleep on Grit. When he gets hot, he's fun to watch.
Let's beat the piss out of the Jays and be sharp for the Boston series.
Back in Georges day we looked for star players
Then Gene Michael introduced some home grown developed players
Then during the wind down and transition we wound up with a mix...a misshapen mix
Then this new renaissance. What I enjoy now is adding the advantage the FO brings in grinding out finds and depth and ways to aim for the end point even in June ( in managing the workloads) and investing in pitch recognition technology and dual language courses in the minors and more coaches, video and analysis deeper into the minors.
I think they are going to surprise us in the trading period. I think the original plan called for an even more dominant bullpen. Whats more important...the Astros and the Sox need better bullpens. We could use a depth starter but I think the aim will be making sure any really good bullpen arms come to us. Whats more, offseason, we can always trade one for a good return
Years ago, if you could outspend other teams on players, you could usually edge them out.
Now; investments need to be made in so many other areas. Teams like NYY have constructed very significant analytic departments. There's so much player data being collected that they find uses for - including what was touched on earlier in the thread regarding rest days and optimizing player performance.
In the past, you'd basically have your "A" lineup out there most days and then you'd give guys a blow here and there and that was really it. There wasn't the same amount of analysis going on behind lineup construction - the thinkings were so much more conventional.
Now, with the Yanks, you almost never see the same lineup 2 days in a row.
Basically, if you're not following suit with the teams that have moved ahead and are investing heavily in analytics and other data; you're probably not going to have a very good chance at competing. Teams stuck in the past are going to get left in the dust until they change their approach.
Notice this way of playing, with its emphasis on depth and multiple positions for some players plus signing your core early could not have worked if lots of payroll was stuck for years on Harper or Machado. They got those decisions right.
Even the use of the DH is different than its original model of a hitter who could not field
Stanton(not Judge) and the CF has right of way on any ball he can get too.
The Phillies are in a tailspin right now and the Pads are under .500 even with Machado. It just doesn't seem like these massive spends yield the ROI.
DJ has flat been a more valuable player than Machado to date this year - and the investment on DJ is tiny compared to what it would have taken to sign Manny.
Sometimes, the megadeals just seem lazy to me. There are often much better values out there if the teams know what they're looking for and can find the right fits like we've done with LeMahieu.
Being so invested in player data and specific numbers will open doors to much smarter signings and deals - which is why Cashman seems to so often win his trades and wind up inking productive players.
The Jays have been a fucking pain so far this year. Probably the most annoying team in the division in 2019. This years' O's, I guess...
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but Hicks beat him to it.
Stanton(not Judge) and the CF has right of way on any ball he can get too.
They're both such huge guys, I couldn't even tell the difference. lol.
2-0
I really don't like the Yankee-omatic 2.1 approach to lineups and defense. Not at all.
Yeah this year has sucked.
Just no words anymore.
The Phillies are in a tailspin right now and the Pads are under .500 even with Machado. It just doesn't seem like these massive spends yield the ROI.
DJ has flat been a more valuable player than Machado to date this year - and the investment on DJ is tiny compared to what it would have taken to sign Manny.
Sometimes, the megadeals just seem lazy to me. There are often much better values out there if the teams know what they're looking for and can find the right fits like we've done with LeMahieu.
Being so invested in player data and specific numbers will open doors to much smarter signings and deals - which is why Cashman seems to so often win his trades and wind up inking productive players.
I agree. You'll appreciate this, given your history. But, in the time I lived in the DMV area and was following the Nats via the local news, the best move the Nats made was stealing Daniel Murphy from the Mets on the cheap. The DJ signing seems like a reiteration of that.
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In comment 14481574 adamg said:
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but Hicks beat him to it.
Stanton(not Judge) and the CF has right of way on any ball he can get too.
They're both such huge guys, I couldn't even tell the difference. lol.
pssst, I thought the same thing on the Guerrero double.
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Awful start
Yeah this year has sucked.
Far too many home runs and once they get behind, they never come back...
I'd never throw him a strike with two strikes...sliders low and away..
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on a ball that went 55 feet and outside.
I'd never throw him a strike with two strikes...sliders low and away..
You could probably say this about half our lineup.
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In comment 14481591 RasputinPrime said:
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on a ball that went 55 feet and outside.
I'd never throw him a strike with two strikes...sliders low and away..
You could probably say this about half our lineup.
Maybe so, but Gary really is bad on those way off the plate sliders. He stands out. Some swing at more, but he swings at the most outrageous.
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on a ball that went 55 feet and outside.
I'd never throw him a strike with two strikes...sliders low and away..
Did he not see the 0-2 pitch to Hicks? What did he think he was gonna get at 0-2?
I like Gary and wouldn't trade him for any catcher in the game but sometimes I can't help but think he might not be the sharpest tool in the shed.
I wasn't a fan of including him in the deal for Happ last year. Unless the BJs were really high on him, I figured we might need the depth. He is a solid platoon OFer.
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I can't believe fricken McKinney made a great play in right to save a run. Of all people to do well in the field.
I wasn't a fan of including him in the deal for Happ last year. Unless the BJs were really high on him, I figured we might need the depth. He is a solid platoon OFer.
Well his numbers look awful this year. So at least it hasn't hurt us in the short run.
As DJ gets on base again...
The guy's physical tools are A+. No doubt about that.
I guess I'm just greedy and wish he had the instincts and baseball smarts of a Jeter or ARod. He's young enough to develop them more and here's hoping he does.
That is why Gary swung at that pitch 55 ft outside....nasty two seamer that breaks back over the plate and appears to be the slider.
Just a great play by Grichuk. Cap tip.
Just a great play by Grichuk. Cap tip.
.
I think they are hoping that he sees better pitches with Sanchez behind him. Problem is he has to swing at them.
We just need to get on the board now.
Too many Ks. Real pitchers get ground outs. /s
Yeah and the Yanks scored about 28 in the last four. Neither have anything to do with today.
That's baseball, Suzyn.
Nailed it lol
Haha yup...Hicks wanted off the BBI hit list!
No, that was not bad managing. Have to let pitchers pitch a little bit.
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It seemed like he was clearly going to give up some runs, but he's scoreless through 4.1... do you take him out?
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No, that was not bad managing. Have to let pitchers pitch a little bit.
Sounds right. Thanks section
Easy to listen to as well
Fantastic outing for him after a tough first.
Another 6 inning outing for him. Gutsy.
Let's get him this W.
As guys used to snap between guys and an ear for pretension they can cut him up...and they all know that as well
Easy to listen to as well
Yeah, at times he's a total goofball. But today, he's had some insight.
Fantastic outing for him after a tough first.
Another 6 inning outing for him. Gutsy.
Let's get him this W.
Indeed. Glad they let him pitch his way out of it.
Happy to be wrong. Nice night from CC after a very unpromising first inning.
I love this man.
20 years old, they make mistakes, but I don't think it was going foul. The spin was not there.
Wellllll, ummm, ok
Busted this fucking shit wide open.
LFG.
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Wellllll, ummm, ok
He's batting over 450 with RISP, man.
Too many HR's.
PASS.
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In comment 14481715 adamg said:
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Wellllll, ummm, ok
He's batting over 450 with RISP, man.
Closer to .460 but you could just send him a bouquet...
They only scored ten runs in the hour since your comment...
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In comment 14481721 section125 said:
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In comment 14481715 adamg said:
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Wellllll, ummm, ok
He's batting over 450 with RISP, man.
Closer to .460 but you could just send him a bouquet...
I'm old fashioned.
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pitching staffs mentally as much as physically. The Blue Jays have to be sitting their thinking 2 more games of this after tonight?
Too many HR's.
PASS.
Not to mention my misuse of their, instead of there. Shameful.
They’re should be a fine for that.
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In comment 14481732 mfsd said:
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pitching staffs mentally as much as physically. The Blue Jays have to be sitting their thinking 2 more games of this after tonight?
Too many HR's.
PASS.
Not to mention my misuse of their, instead of there. Shameful.
They’re should be a fine for that.
A BBI kangaroo court!
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In comment 14481739 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14481732 mfsd said:
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pitching staffs mentally as much as physically. The Blue Jays have to be sitting their thinking 2 more games of this after tonight?
Too many HR's.
PASS.
Not to mention my misuse of their, instead of there. Shameful.
They’re should be a fine for that.
A BBI kangaroo court!
Donation period is approaching. BBI fines paid to Eric.
Cortes as the opener tomorrow, I guess.
He shouldn't have been allowed to face the 4th batter.
Wow. Good call. That's exactly what it's like. And he's also finesse like Clippard too.
1st and 2nd with a run already in he should have been batter to batter. Second the bases are loaded he needed to come out.
Boone has done a terrific job this year, but that was brutal. I know the bullpen has been taxed, but 10-2 should never wind up 10-7 without an out being recorded. He didn't have it and hasn't had it in a long time. Assuming he has options left he needs to be sent down. If he doesn't he needs to be DFA'd. His stuff is average at best, I know he's been decent in the past but he's a disaster right now. If he doesn't have an option left he either needs to be DFA'd or come up with a mysterious injury
Yes. And we need to use them immediately.
If we can't use him with a 7 run lead, we can't use him. Period. He's got to go to Scranton.
Oh, stop. He doesn't "fucking stink" - he should have yanked Holder sooner; but he's done a really good job otherwise this year.
No manager is perfect.
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Yes. And we need to use them immediately.
If we can't use him with a 7 run lead, we can't use him. Period. He's got to go to Scranton.
Yup, that was my thinking as well. Too bad he spit the bit again tonight but maybe some time in Scranton will get him right.
He screwed that up but on no planet is he a bad manager.
I think they'll have Hale be the piggyback guy for Nestor; that's probably why they aren't going to use him tonight.
But now to even need Ottavino warming up at all just really blows.
Putrid job by Holder tonight. Just awful. He's totally lost.
Pretty sure they called up Cortes already but I can see Tarpley on his way back up and getting a trio to London taboot.
I think they have to wait a few more days for Cortes
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and Cortez or Tarpley brought up until he gets straightened out. (IF)
I think they have to wait a few more days for Cortes
He's already up. They recalled him yesterday.
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and Cortez or Tarpley brought up until he gets straightened out. (IF)
I think they have to wait a few more days for Cortes
It hasn't been ten days yet, has it...
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and Cortez or Tarpley brought up until he gets straightened out. (IF)
I think they have to wait a few more days for Cortes
Cortes was called back up when Maybin went in the IL.
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In comment 14481821 section125 said:
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and Cortez or Tarpley brought up until he gets straightened out. (IF)
I think they have to wait a few more days for Cortes
He's already up. They recalled him yesterday.
Maybin's replacement - injury loophole.
He shouldn't have been allowed to face the 4th batter.
This should be kept in mind. It's really on Boone. Tying run now at the plate.
You can say it 500 more times, you'll still be wrong.
Maybe I'm crazy.
Favorite factoide from this thread.
Maybe I'm crazy.
Nah you're not crazy. It was the sensible thing to do and as was said earlier, if they can't use him up 10-2, he shouldn't be on the roster.
Greenie might still be able to give us an inning tomorrow - he didn't have to work too hard tonight.
I think they'll most likely go with Cortes/Hale to get them through 5-6+ - and I could also see Tarpley being recalled if they do decide to send Holder down to SWB.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
https://gregstoll.com/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#V.3.8.0.1.2014.2018 - ( New Window )
Just do it already. Send him down.
Who were the others? Just for context...
In comment 14481835 RasputinPrime said:
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
https://gregstoll.com/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#V.3.8.0.1.2014.2018 - ( New Window )
Very low odds with Holder pitching as he has been lately? Not that low.
Who were the others? Just for context...
In comment 14481835 RasputinPrime said:
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6 career 5 run allowed, no out appearances. Holder now has two of them.
Not sure. I follow Katie Sharp on twitter and she just posted it. Highly recommend following her.
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It was a 10-3 game. I don't care that he wasn't pitching well at the time. The odds of a grand slam are very low and even with a GS it is still a 3-run lead in the 8th with many strong bullpen arms at their disposal should it become a three-run lead.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
https://gregstoll.com/~gregstoll/baseball/stats.html#V.3.8.0.1.2014.2018 - ( New Window )
Very low odds with Holder pitching as he has been lately? Not that low.
One thing about Boone is that he always waits for shit to hit the fan before making a move. I remember the good days with Girardis quick hook.
The flip side of Boone having a long leash, is the trust he places in his guys, gotta imagine that helps.
Ok, cool. Following her now. Thanks!
In comment 14481860 RasputinPrime said:
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Rasputin
Who were the others? Just for context...
In comment 14481835 RasputinPrime said:
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6 career 5 run allowed, no out appearances. Holder now has two of them.
Not sure. I follow Katie Sharp on twitter and she just posted it. Highly recommend following her.
That was a nice play by Gio to end it.
The disagreement was about the odds on Holder giving up a grand slam in that situation, which you postulated were "very low," not whether the Yankees would win anyway even if he did give one up -- as he did.
Well, frankly, so did I. I mean really!
Albert Abreu is on the 40 man roster and has pitched quite well his last 3-4 starts for AA Trenton. He last pitched on the 19th so his normal start day is today - ***SUPER LONG SHOT, but the Yanks may need a stretched out arm tonight on standby in the event of long-extras.
Yup! Thanks to Jints!
Albert Abreu is on the 40 man roster and has pitched quite well his last 3-4 starts for AA Trenton. He last pitched on the 19th so his normal start day is today - ***SUPER LONG SHOT, but the Yanks may need a stretched out arm tonight on standby in the event of long-extras.
Holder couldn't Hold'em anymore.
The guy's team is rattling off win after win after win and he's doing it with 4 starting pitchers, 2 of which are ideally number #5 guys in a rotation.
He took a risk in a spot where he could avoid to take a risk. It blew up in his face.....and his team still won by 2 runs!
I'd have sent Holder down weeks ago...so I probably wouldn't have handled it exactly the same way last night...but how can you not at least see his angle?
I've really got to use my imagination
To think of good reasons
To keep on keepin' on
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/24/2019 10:30 pm : link : reply
It was a 10-3 game. I don't care that he wasn't pitching well at the time. The odds of a grand slam are very low and even with a GS it is still a 3-run lead in the 8th with many strong bullpen arms at their disposal should it become a three-run lead.
Keep in mind that over the last 5/10/30 years (results stay pretty consistent), a home team with a 3-run lead in the top of the 8th inning with no outs wins 95% of the time. And again, that would be after giving up a Grand Slam which is the worst case scenario for leaving in Holder.
It was the perfect opportunity to let Holder grind and try and pitch his way out.
There's another game today. Chapman won't be able to pitch today if needed. Green was supposed to start the game today. It's not about the win probability for the next hour. Games aren't played in a vacuum.
They also have another bona fide closer sitting in the bullpen if Boone decides to stay away from him.
But carry on. Not a lot else to complain about with this team right now. So bang that drum.
The guy's team is rattling off win after win after win and he's doing it with 4 starting pitchers, 2 of which are ideally number #5 guys in a rotation.
He took a risk in a spot where he could avoid to take a risk. It blew up in his face.....and his team still won by 2 runs!
I'd have sent Holder down weeks ago...so I probably wouldn't have handled it exactly the same way last night...but how can you not at least see his angle?
Yep you really have to stretch it like a pretzel to find a way to criticize Boone at this point. There were nights this 1st half where we put out a mediocre AAA lineup, and here we are 5 games up in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Pitchers in the Majors have to get guys out. Especially in a 10-2 game. You can't use your elite relievers in a 10-3 game in the 8th. Especially when your SP's are giving you 5 max 6 innings a night.