optimism - for the first time in many years. With the changes and with the two tackles missing time this spring, we may see a line that improves during the season. A lot depends on Remers, given his injury, but at worst I expect him to be an improvement over Wheeler. I love the Zeitler trade - and Eli and Barkley will too.
...but I see 2 Tackles who are physically on shaky ground to open, odds are neither plays all 16 games - and at Center, our 2 prospects are Pulley (proven below average) and Halapio (below average, but with POTENTIAL!). Biggest red flags are depth and experience as a unit.
Offensive Line is the weirdest animal on a football team, IMO - over the decades, there have been lines that looked great on paper and underperformed, and then there is the magic that happens like the 2007 line - on paper, Diehl was out of position, Seubert an undrafted player with a long recovery from a catastrophic injury, O'Hara was hardly a lights-out FA coming from Buffalo - the only known commodities were Snee and Mackenzie.
IF those 2 tackles stay healthy, my gut says this line can do great things, particularly with Barkley and the threat he presents - think about how much power Play Action will have this season.
Also, Remmers has only missed five games in the last four years (and all five of those came in 2017). Backs can always be an issue, but even with his back bothering him last year, he didn't miss a game.
no way he makes roster, and no way we should want him to make roster.
Naturally I am excluding the potential of injuries forcing decisions.
Odd are you are correct, but he's a big guy who I think showed enough in college to be drafted. The fact that he is getting some early reps at left tackle also suggests he's a decent athlete.
O'hara joined the Giants in 2004 from Cleveland and was actually on his second contract with the Giants in 2007. Seubert had regained his starting job in late 2006. The 2007 line was hardly the miracle you remember.
O'hara joined the Giants in 2004 from Cleveland and was actually on his second contract with the Giants in 2007. Seubert had regained his starting job in late 2006. The 2007 line was hardly the miracle you remember.
By 07, no. But once Pettigout was shipped out, what was cobbled together was hardly anything I had overwhelming confidence in - certainly nothing I'd ever expect to turn into the greatest Giant O-Line of my lifetime.
Nate Solder has only missed one game in the last three years.
I know all the reasons to be confident. I'm optimistic, I'm pumped for this season.
But like Eli, I still have PTSD from the last 7 years. The Giants will have consistent, even good O-line play in the future. I hope that future is this season, but will believe when I see.
I don't see the Giants keeping three OT's on the roster.
I figure one of Wheeler, Big George, or Adams will end up cut or on the PS. They do need to develop some young OT's, but they've got a better chance of finding one worth developing in next year's draft, in my opinion. Maybe one of those three will develop into a serviceable player - swing-tackle, spot-starter - but I wouldn't waste my time trying to go three for three.
I think a guy like Evan Brown may have a chance to stick. He didn't play last year, but the Giants did keep him around, and in the Spring they had him playing Guard while Halapio and Pulley took turns at Center.
RE: I don't see the Giants keeping three OT's on the roster.
I figure one of Wheeler, Big George, or Adams will end up cut or on the PS. They do need to develop some young OT's, but they've got a better chance of finding one worth developing in next year's draft, in my opinion. Maybe one of those three will develop into a serviceable player - swing-tackle, spot-starter - but I wouldn't waste my time trying to go three for three.
I think a guy like Evan Brown may have a chance to stick. He didn't play last year, but the Giants did keep him around, and in the Spring they had him playing Guard while Halapio and Pulley took turns at Center.
I meant three OT's in addition to Solder and Remmers, lol.
I think the Giants keep either Evan Brown, James O'Hagan, or Nick Gates over Paul Adams unless Adams plays guard as well. I am excited about Brown and O'Hagan and I also like Adams but I think two are either placed on the PS or are stashed on IR.
It's unfortunate that Gates was on IR last season because he was one of the more exciting UDFA's from a year ago. He also played OT in college so that might give him a leg up over Adams if he shows enough at guard.
It is usually easy to get an undrafted, last cut, o-lineman without any phenom physical traits onto the PS. This is because they really have nothing helpful to offer to a new team at that late date.
The other factor is that you really do not want the player who you are trying to develop, but you do not trust on the field, to get a year of service credit.
I like how you openly admit to being hopeful. Right now I would agree, if you like the line, you are being hopeful. There is nothing out there to indicate this line WILL be a good one. Plenty to suggest that the line will have its struggles.
I tend to be a hopeful guy. This lineup inspires more hope in me than last year's. Having said that, there are still tons of questions in my mind, and to be honest, Hal Hunter is one of them. Your analysis of the line is an analysis of the talent brought in. I assume your analysis of the coaching will follow - perhaps at the end?
Hal Hunter is one of the biggest question marks I have right now about this franchise. We know that really great coaches string together good OL even if they don't have the best talent. Hunter did a decent job last year of recovering from a horrible start. Not sure how to interpret that, but it leaves me with a ton of questions, not the least of which is what do we make of Hunter if we get a repeat performance this year? If it takes 7-8 weeks for the line to gel, then they go on to be serviceable or better, is that an indication of good coaching or bad? Not sure I have the answers.
Final comment on the OL is the impact of the QB. One the one hand, Eli's one of the fastest QB's in the league in getting the ball off. This helps his line. There is little doubt he's one of the very best at reading the blitz and making adjustments pre-snap, also a plus for the OL. However he has become one of the very worst when facing pressure imv. He folds quickly and does very little on his own to extend a play anymore. Moving on from Eli might happen mid-season. I'm very curious to see how a much more mobile but inexperienced QB makes the OL look.
I think the guards alone are going to make this line so much better. Are there concerns with the tackles? Sure. But these guys are professionals. They won't melt when they line up against the Eagles.
I think the guards alone shouldare going to make this line so much better. Are there concerns with the tackles? Sure. But these guys are professionals. They won't melt when they line up against the Eagles.
With the adjustment above, I agree to what you're saying. Key to me is Hunter/Shula/Shurmur and how they get this team prepared. As much as I believe in the talent of the guards, I doubt the talent of the OL coach.
One of the most interesting observations from the coaching staff has been Hunter's comment on Zeitler which you quoted - about how he's a joy to coach. What does that tell you about others he's coaching? Some will say I'm reading too much into his words, and I admit I probably am. I'm just looking for insights into his abilities as a coach to develop a truly top OL. Haven't seen any evidence of that yet in his history.
The Giants have sucked along the O-line for 6 years now. The teams record reflects this. The Giants don't need to be great along the O-line. They simply need to be competent. The fact that the Giants will rely more heavily on the run should help as well.
If Remmers can play and Solder is decent the team should be quite a bit better.
...I agree with your excellent review and comments.
If I had to make a projection of our offensive line beyond this season, I would say that there are at least two pieces that are needed to make this unit top flight. And these two pieces are not currently on the roster.
For all that Gettleman has done to upgrade this unit (and I believe he's done an admirable job given all the other roster needs), the future will require him to find better/more talent at Center and at Tackle.
Until that's done, we will experience ups and downs with this unit, which admittedly is a lot better than what we've seen over the past five seasons!
would be to ask the question - how confident would you be that the line would be good if we had one of the better OL coaches in the league? I think the talent is enough to at least be serviceable, and possibly one of the better ones, so I'd be pretty confident in the OL with a known, valuable OL coach.
would be to ask the question - how confident would you be that the line would be good if we had one of the better OL coaches in the league? I think the talent is enough to at least be serviceable, and possibly one of the better ones, so I'd be pretty confident in the OL with a known, valuable OL coach.
I hear you, but the good OL coaches we had didn't make much difference with the dog crap we had. They have since moved on to other gigs.
Coaching matters... but only up to a certain point. Our guards are going to kick ass.
Solder is overpaid for his ability and will need replacing in a couple of seasons as well. Ideally with homegrown and cheaper talent out of the Draft.
For now we've assembled an improved group and have two fantastic OG's. They should be good enough to function in pass protection unlike recent seasons. The OG's should help the running attack and Saquon improve his rushing stats to become a more balanced weapon as well.
...is an end to OL incompetence. An end to jailbreak rushes, to completely unblocked stunts, to having all 5 linemen get manhandled in short yardage.
We're already there. Wheeler isn't starting. Flowers and John Jerry are ACTUALLY OFF THE ROSTER. The only true weak point is center, and as has been stated, the guards are going to make him better, whoever it is.
In all likelihood, Eli will improve with confidence.
But what I'm really stoked for is Barkley with solid blocking. We've already seen what he can do when there are NO rushing lanes. This season has potential for something truly special.
yet the addition of Ziegler makes them the best line in a decade? Who knows, the potential is there, but I think the Giants are way overrating Halipio, and Remmers is a big unknown at this point. The Vikings have o-line issues and had no interest in Remmers. I'll hope for the best, but having a statue at QB doesn't help any OL.......
There were plenty of unblocked stunts in the first
yet the addition of Ziegler makes them the best line in a decade? Who knows, the potential is there, but I think the Giants are way overrating Halipio, and Remmers is a big unknown at this point. The Vikings have o-line issues and had no interest in Remmers. I'll hope for the best, but having a statue at QB doesn't help any OL.......
The Giants acquired one of the best right guards in football. Going into last season RG was their biggest hole along the offensive line. Will Hernandez is now entering his second season where he will be more consistent and take a step forward in his performance. If Halapio is as good as the coaches and LeCharles Bentley claim then the interior of the offensive line will be the best since the prime days of Seubert, O'Hara, and Snee. We saw the dramatic improvement the line showed when Brown was inserted into the starting lineup last season. Zeitler is a much better guard than Brown.
would be to ask the question - how confident would you be that the line would be good if we had one of the better OL coaches in the league? I think the talent is enough to at least be serviceable, and possibly one of the better ones, so I'd be pretty confident in the OL with a known, valuable OL coach.
I hear you, but the good OL coaches we had didn't make much difference with the dog crap we had. They have since moved on to other gigs.
Coaching matters... but only up to a certain point. Our guards are going to kick ass.
This point Eric makes is important. Mike Solari who the Giants brought in in 2016 to try to make something out of the Pugh, Richburg, and especially Flowers, Hart and Fluker group could do nothing with them. So I really doubt your conviction: "We know that really great coaches string together good OL even if they don't have the best talent." It wasn't the case under Jerry Reese; I suspect it had a lot to do with the collective chemistry of the group of players. I do agree with this statement: "Hunter did a decent job last year of recovering from a horrible start."
I think, and I imagine it plays into Eric's optimism, that the collective will and dedication of the O-line has been changed from a bunch of individuals to a "professional group" like you find in offices of doctors who treat common ailments... It's a different feeling from the group, and with that feeling, attitude, and professionalism Hunter can be successful where a guy with a great track record like Solari couldn't. Gettleman seems to have a finger on the pulse of team dynamics that Reese didn't.
And of course, he's not the least bothered by his own mistakes and will churn things over if they are not working.
Eric - do you see Big George or Paul Adams eventually
yet the addition of Ziegler makes them the best line in a decade? Who knows, the potential is there, but I think the Giants are way overrating Halipio, and Remmers is a big unknown at this point. The Vikings have o-line issues and had no interest in Remmers. I'll hope for the best, but having a statue at QB doesn't help any OL.......
(1) The line has been so dreadful for a decade that anything near a "normal" line automatically makes them the best OL they've had in a decade. Go back each year and look at who was starting across the board. It's been a disaster.
(2) Zeitler is a huge upgrade and would improve the line by himself alone. But it doesn't end there. Hernandez was All-Rookie last year but he's still only scratching the surface. Solder had a down year for him and should be better with a second year with Hernandez. Remmers is a huge upgrade if he plays like he did in 2017 at right tackle. The Giants can survive with Halapio or Pulley at center.
If we have an injury to one of the guards I think the most likley
every season slow, but gets better as the year goes on. I'm pretty sure that has been his MO since he has been in the league. When you play for the Pats you realize the season is a marathon and not a sprint lol.
RE: Eric - do you see Big George or Paul Adams eventually
moving inside to OG? Otherwise I can't imagine them keeping all those OTs and not another OC/OG among 9.
I always think tackles can play guard unless they are taller than 6'6'' and narrow built. Aside from that, if one of the guards went down, you'd probably be more apt to see one of the back-up centers play guard first (i.e. Pulley).
If you look at the 16 OLs on the roster, some "no names" are going to have to make it. As of June 26, 2019, I think Big George and Paul Adams have the most NFL potential. But it's VERY early.
play before he got hurt has been consistent and adamant. Shurmur, Shula, Hunter seem really high on him. I can't offer any intelligent assessment but he doesn't seem to be the tomato can some here say he is.
O'hara joined the Giants in 2004 from Cleveland and was actually on his second contract with the Giants in 2007. Seubert had regained his starting job in late 2006. The 2007 line was hardly the miracle you remember.
By 07, no. But once Pettigout was shipped out, what was cobbled together was hardly anything I had overwhelming confidence in - certainly nothing I'd ever expect to turn into the greatest Giant O-Line of my lifetime.
That oline was built around a nespotistic 2nd rounder out of a 2nd rate program and a bunch of bubblegum and tinfoil.
Nate Solder has only missed one game in the last three years.
I know all the reasons to be confident. I'm optimistic, I'm pumped for this season.
But like Eli, I still have PTSD from the last 7 years. The Giants will have consistent, even good O-line play in the future. I hope that future is this season, but will believe when I see.
Eli does have PTSD. Peri Traumatic Stress Disorder.
I think there's a system fit of this projected starting line to what plays PS likes to run, both the OGs and the OTs can get out and play in space a bit for screens and power runs.
If they can stay healthy as a 5 man unit, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised about their synergy with PS's scheme.
Well, the less optimistic among us will be surprised, anyway.
center is no reason for optimism, and depth is non existent until proven otherwise.
Remmers is a big question mark. He's likely to be eased in slowly in camp to give his back more time to heal. Backs can be a bitch, and I get the feeling that even if healthy, the main thing is that he is the closest thing we've had to belonging as the starter, not that he's someone to salivate over.
Yay! we're rooting that the unit doesn't suck as bad as it has been.
Thread title says it all! Positional Breakdown: Offensive Line
see Ereck Flowers' name on any of these lists and overjoyed to see him him on the Redskins' roster so we can feast on his worthless ass twice a year. Although with our luck he'll probably play like an All-Pro when we line up against him.
Should the OL depth be vets with experience or youth with potential?
We are really talking about 3 or 4 53 man roster spots. Veterans may give us a better chance to win this year if a starter goes down but may cost more and not provide continuity and have as high a ceiling as developing a young guy with potential.
I would like to see the backup OL spots filled by one veteran and 2-3 young developing players. I like Wheeler entering his 3rd season as the swing tackle. The knock on him coming out was he needed to build strength, he should be ready to blossom.
Evan Brown and O'Hagen are similar in that they are both UDFAs that seem to have potential to eventually replace Pulley next year as the backup C/G. One has a year on the team learning the system and getting stronger.
And everyone seems to like Big George's potential, but as a 7th rounder what is his upside? Starter or more likely an eventual backup?
Assuming Pio starts, I'd guess that Pulley is the lone veteran backup with Wheeler and Brown rounding out the top 8, and the ninth spot if they carry that many going to Big George (draft scholarship), leaving O'Hagen, Adams, Gates, Mihalek, etc essentially competing for Practice Squad spots for development and injury callups.
I don't really see which of the backup we'd jettison to make room should a decent veteran shake loose. And would it be worth it if we're not making a deep run this year anyway?
Wheeler puts in all together in year 3, legitimately wins the RT job (not via injury to Remmers), and we still use next year's #1 pick on a OT to eventually replace Solder?
With a little luck (or a lot) our 2020 line depth could have enough developed youth (Brown in his 3rd season, Big George and O'Hagen in their 2nd, and a studly 1st Rounder) to jettison Pulley and Remmers. And by the following season, 2021 Solder is likely gone.
It could happen ;)
RE: Should the OL depth be vets with experience or youth with potential?
Veterans may give us a better chance to win this year if a starter goes down but may cost more and not provide continuity and have as high a ceiling as developing a young guy with potential.
I would like to see the backup OL spots filled by one veteran and 2-3 young developing players...
OL is generally the most cerebral and technical position on the entire team after QB, and that's why except for exceptional cases (WH last year) you don't see a lot of rookies starting on the OL, nor do you want rookies to be your primary back-ups. Especially at the OC position, the key player to make the line calls and adjustments along with the QB.
Big George has already been cited 2 ways - 1) highly positive is that he's a quick study (and very serious) 2) not positive at all is that his technique is raw, unrefined, and needs a lot of work.
You can lay a wager that Big George will be waived and placed on the PS rather than held on the roster, as there is very little chance anyone will claim him to their own 53. especially if someone else's last minute waiver looks like a reasonable vet to back up our OL. Yes, his athletic upside of power and quickness looks considerably better than Remmers'. But he doesn't know how to play the position, and scouting reports indicated he might not be a tackle after all based on limited lateral movement or technique.
I know Eric has him on the 53, but my guess he's on the outside looking in, and I'll see it as a very positive sign that he exceeded expectations if he's on the 53 vs the Boys game 1.
I went back and looked at the first offensive series of 2018! It was a horrible way to start the season and it was all about Eric Flowers! And it went downhill after that.
I am optimistic that this season (barring a multitude of injuries) will be significantly better through 16 games.
you can scheme around 1 bad O-lineman. slide protections or give help etc. the line has been so bad recently that you had only 1-2 quality players on the entire line. you can't scheme around that
The Younger players have a year under there belt in a new system
That alone will be helpful in developing continuity .
Biggest concern is Health If Remmers and Soldier stay healthy
Halapio continues to progress with the addition of one of
the best guards in football Ziteler how can you not
be optimistic .
Wheeler puts in all together in year 3, legitimately wins the RT job (not via injury to Remmers), and we still use next year's #1 pick on a OT to eventually replace Solder?
With a little luck (or a lot) our 2020 line depth could have enough developed youth (Brown in his 3rd season, Big George and O'Hagen in their 2nd, and a studly 1st Rounder) to jettison Pulley and Remmers. And by the following season, 2021 Solder is likely gone.
Offensive Line is the weirdest animal on a football team, IMO - over the decades, there have been lines that looked great on paper and underperformed, and then there is the magic that happens like the 2007 line - on paper, Diehl was out of position, Seubert an undrafted player with a long recovery from a catastrophic injury, O'Hara was hardly a lights-out FA coming from Buffalo - the only known commodities were Snee and Mackenzie.
IF those 2 tackles stay healthy, my gut says this line can do great things, particularly with Barkley and the threat he presents - think about how much power Play Action will have this season.
Naturally I am excluding the potential of injuries forcing decisions.
Naturally I am excluding the potential of injuries forcing decisions.
Odd are you are correct, but he's a big guy who I think showed enough in college to be drafted. The fact that he is getting some early reps at left tackle also suggests he's a decent athlete.
But like Eli, I still have PTSD from the last 7 years. The Giants will have consistent, even good O-line play in the future. I hope that future is this season, but will believe when I see.
I think a guy like Evan Brown may have a chance to stick. He didn't play last year, but the Giants did keep him around, and in the Spring they had him playing Guard while Halapio and Pulley took turns at Center.
I think a guy like Evan Brown may have a chance to stick. He didn't play last year, but the Giants did keep him around, and in the Spring they had him playing Guard while Halapio and Pulley took turns at Center.
I meant three OT's in addition to Solder and Remmers, lol.
It's unfortunate that Gates was on IR last season because he was one of the more exciting UDFA's from a year ago. He also played OT in college so that might give him a leg up over Adams if he shows enough at guard.
The other factor is that you really do not want the player who you are trying to develop, but you do not trust on the field, to get a year of service credit.
I tend to be a hopeful guy. This lineup inspires more hope in me than last year's. Having said that, there are still tons of questions in my mind, and to be honest, Hal Hunter is one of them. Your analysis of the line is an analysis of the talent brought in. I assume your analysis of the coaching will follow - perhaps at the end?
Hal Hunter is one of the biggest question marks I have right now about this franchise. We know that really great coaches string together good OL even if they don't have the best talent. Hunter did a decent job last year of recovering from a horrible start. Not sure how to interpret that, but it leaves me with a ton of questions, not the least of which is what do we make of Hunter if we get a repeat performance this year? If it takes 7-8 weeks for the line to gel, then they go on to be serviceable or better, is that an indication of good coaching or bad? Not sure I have the answers.
Final comment on the OL is the impact of the QB. One the one hand, Eli's one of the fastest QB's in the league in getting the ball off. This helps his line. There is little doubt he's one of the very best at reading the blitz and making adjustments pre-snap, also a plus for the OL. However he has become one of the very worst when facing pressure imv. He folds quickly and does very little on his own to extend a play anymore. Moving on from Eli might happen mid-season. I'm very curious to see how a much more mobile but inexperienced QB makes the OL look.
Thanks again for your work!
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm glad that Eric is thinking of the children.
With the adjustment above, I agree to what you're saying. Key to me is Hunter/Shula/Shurmur and how they get this team prepared. As much as I believe in the talent of the guards, I doubt the talent of the OL coach.
One of the most interesting observations from the coaching staff has been Hunter's comment on Zeitler which you quoted - about how he's a joy to coach. What does that tell you about others he's coaching? Some will say I'm reading too much into his words, and I admit I probably am. I'm just looking for insights into his abilities as a coach to develop a truly top OL. Haven't seen any evidence of that yet in his history.
If Remmers can play and Solder is decent the team should be quite a bit better.
...I agree with your excellent review and comments.
If I had to make a projection of our offensive line beyond this season, I would say that there are at least two pieces that are needed to make this unit top flight. And these two pieces are not currently on the roster.
For all that Gettleman has done to upgrade this unit (and I believe he's done an admirable job given all the other roster needs), the future will require him to find better/more talent at Center and at Tackle.
Until that's done, we will experience ups and downs with this unit, which admittedly is a lot better than what we've seen over the past five seasons!
I hear you, but the good OL coaches we had didn't make much difference with the dog crap we had. They have since moved on to other gigs.
Coaching matters... but only up to a certain point. Our guards are going to kick ass.
Solder is overpaid for his ability and will need replacing in a couple of seasons as well. Ideally with homegrown and cheaper talent out of the Draft.
For now we've assembled an improved group and have two fantastic OG's. They should be good enough to function in pass protection unlike recent seasons. The OG's should help the running attack and Saquon improve his rushing stats to become a more balanced weapon as well.
We're already there. Wheeler isn't starting. Flowers and John Jerry are ACTUALLY OFF THE ROSTER. The only true weak point is center, and as has been stated, the guards are going to make him better, whoever it is.
In all likelihood, Eli will improve with confidence.
But what I'm really stoked for is Barkley with solid blocking. We've already seen what he can do when there are NO rushing lanes. This season has potential for something truly special.
The Giants acquired one of the best right guards in football. Going into last season RG was their biggest hole along the offensive line. Will Hernandez is now entering his second season where he will be more consistent and take a step forward in his performance. If Halapio is as good as the coaches and LeCharles Bentley claim then the interior of the offensive line will be the best since the prime days of Seubert, O'Hara, and Snee. We saw the dramatic improvement the line showed when Brown was inserted into the starting lineup last season. Zeitler is a much better guard than Brown.
Quote:
would be to ask the question - how confident would you be that the line would be good if we had one of the better OL coaches in the league? I think the talent is enough to at least be serviceable, and possibly one of the better ones, so I'd be pretty confident in the OL with a known, valuable OL coach.
I hear you, but the good OL coaches we had didn't make much difference with the dog crap we had. They have since moved on to other gigs.
Coaching matters... but only up to a certain point. Our guards are going to kick ass.
This point Eric makes is important. Mike Solari who the Giants brought in in 2016 to try to make something out of the Pugh, Richburg, and especially Flowers, Hart and Fluker group could do nothing with them. So I really doubt your conviction: "We know that really great coaches string together good OL even if they don't have the best talent." It wasn't the case under Jerry Reese; I suspect it had a lot to do with the collective chemistry of the group of players. I do agree with this statement: "Hunter did a decent job last year of recovering from a horrible start."
I think, and I imagine it plays into Eric's optimism, that the collective will and dedication of the O-line has been changed from a bunch of individuals to a "professional group" like you find in offices of doctors who treat common ailments... It's a different feeling from the group, and with that feeling, attitude, and professionalism Hunter can be successful where a guy with a great track record like Solari couldn't. Gettleman seems to have a finger on the pulse of team dynamics that Reese didn't.
And of course, he's not the least bothered by his own mistakes and will churn things over if they are not working.
(1) The line has been so dreadful for a decade that anything near a "normal" line automatically makes them the best OL they've had in a decade. Go back each year and look at who was starting across the board. It's been a disaster.
(2) Zeitler is a huge upgrade and would improve the line by himself alone. But it doesn't end there. Hernandez was All-Rookie last year but he's still only scratching the surface. Solder had a down year for him and should be better with a second year with Hernandez. Remmers is a huge upgrade if he plays like he did in 2017 at right tackle. The Giants can survive with Halapio or Pulley at center.
I always think tackles can play guard unless they are taller than 6'6'' and narrow built. Aside from that, if one of the guards went down, you'd probably be more apt to see one of the back-up centers play guard first (i.e. Pulley).
If you look at the 16 OLs on the roster, some "no names" are going to have to make it. As of June 26, 2019, I think Big George and Paul Adams have the most NFL potential. But it's VERY early.
Quote:
O'hara joined the Giants in 2004 from Cleveland and was actually on his second contract with the Giants in 2007. Seubert had regained his starting job in late 2006. The 2007 line was hardly the miracle you remember.
By 07, no. But once Pettigout was shipped out, what was cobbled together was hardly anything I had overwhelming confidence in - certainly nothing I'd ever expect to turn into the greatest Giant O-Line of my lifetime.
That oline was built around a nespotistic 2nd rounder out of a 2nd rate program and a bunch of bubblegum and tinfoil.
Quote:
Nate Solder has only missed one game in the last three years.
I know all the reasons to be confident. I'm optimistic, I'm pumped for this season.
But like Eli, I still have PTSD from the last 7 years. The Giants will have consistent, even good O-line play in the future. I hope that future is this season, but will believe when I see.
Eli does have PTSD. Peri Traumatic Stress Disorder.
If they can stay healthy as a 5 man unit, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised about their synergy with PS's scheme.
Well, the less optimistic among us will be surprised, anyway.
are the main reasons for hope this year.
center is no reason for optimism, and depth is non existent until proven otherwise.
Remmers is a big question mark. He's likely to be eased in slowly in camp to give his back more time to heal. Backs can be a bitch, and I get the feeling that even if healthy, the main thing is that he is the closest thing we've had to belonging as the starter, not that he's someone to salivate over.
Yay! we're rooting that the unit doesn't suck as bad as it has been.
Eric. Great analysis, as always.
This year the only real issue is HEALTH.
Last year it was both HEALTH and lack of TALENT.
I would like to see the backup OL spots filled by one veteran and 2-3 young developing players. I like Wheeler entering his 3rd season as the swing tackle. The knock on him coming out was he needed to build strength, he should be ready to blossom.
Evan Brown and O'Hagen are similar in that they are both UDFAs that seem to have potential to eventually replace Pulley next year as the backup C/G. One has a year on the team learning the system and getting stronger.
And everyone seems to like Big George's potential, but as a 7th rounder what is his upside? Starter or more likely an eventual backup?
Assuming Pio starts, I'd guess that Pulley is the lone veteran backup with Wheeler and Brown rounding out the top 8, and the ninth spot if they carry that many going to Big George (draft scholarship), leaving O'Hagen, Adams, Gates, Mihalek, etc essentially competing for Practice Squad spots for development and injury callups.
I don't really see which of the backup we'd jettison to make room should a decent veteran shake loose. And would it be worth it if we're not making a deep run this year anyway?
Your thoughts?
With a little luck (or a lot) our 2020 line depth could have enough developed youth (Brown in his 3rd season, Big George and O'Hagen in their 2nd, and a studly 1st Rounder) to jettison Pulley and Remmers. And by the following season, 2021 Solder is likely gone.
It could happen ;)
I would like to see the backup OL spots filled by one veteran and 2-3 young developing players...
OL is generally the most cerebral and technical position on the entire team after QB, and that's why except for exceptional cases (WH last year) you don't see a lot of rookies starting on the OL, nor do you want rookies to be your primary back-ups. Especially at the OC position, the key player to make the line calls and adjustments along with the QB.
Big George has already been cited 2 ways - 1) highly positive is that he's a quick study (and very serious) 2) not positive at all is that his technique is raw, unrefined, and needs a lot of work.
You can lay a wager that Big George will be waived and placed on the PS rather than held on the roster, as there is very little chance anyone will claim him to their own 53. especially if someone else's last minute waiver looks like a reasonable vet to back up our OL. Yes, his athletic upside of power and quickness looks considerably better than Remmers'. But he doesn't know how to play the position, and scouting reports indicated he might not be a tackle after all based on limited lateral movement or technique.
I know Eric has him on the 53, but my guess he's on the outside looking in, and I'll see it as a very positive sign that he exceeded expectations if he's on the 53 vs the Boys game 1.
This is the best OL we've had in years, but Solder and Remmers have to stay healthy. I'm also curious about Wheeler.
I am optimistic that this season (barring a multitude of injuries) will be significantly better through 16 games.
Biggest concern is Health If Remmers and Soldier stay healthy
Halapio continues to progress with the addition of one of
the best guards in football Ziteler how can you not
be optimistic .
With a little luck (or a lot) our 2020 line depth could have enough developed youth (Brown in his 3rd season, Big George and O'Hagen in their 2nd, and a studly 1st Rounder) to jettison Pulley and Remmers. And by the following season, 2021 Solder is likely gone.
It could happen ;)
Wheeler is not a starting RT in the NFL.