Try to limit it to the one, if possible. The absolute worst, iyo.
Please EXCLUDE anything to do with officials’ calls or non-calls. This is only about coaching calls..
For me, not running Marshawn Lynch from the 1 in the SB. We all know what happened.
And go.
P.S. I re-posted this as Greg in LI asked if it was football only. It is.
Btw? I had to wait 6 minutes or more to re-post this due to some stupid time constraint.
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Pete Carroll in the SB is probably the worst, but how about the "swinging gate" play? Epic Fail - ( New Window )
That was ridiculous but it wasn't a big game
You're right. I forgot about the "BIG GAME" qualification.
You have to get the FG to make it a two score game. So the first down run didn't gain anything. Who cares. Do not risk the sack or holding penalty.
Two pass plays and they get both and have to punt the game away.
- not being ready for onside kick in 4qtr of 2010 Eagles game
- not having Bradshaw fall short of endzone at end of Super Bowl
- not being ready for onside kick in 4qtr of 2010 Eagles game
- not having Bradshaw fall short of endzone at end of Super Bowl
There's absolutely no conceivable way you can blame the HC for Bradshaw. And we won--so it's completely moot.
For everyone who bellyaches that Giants only beat backup QBs, this was a time when backup QBs had their ways with us.
Todd Collins.
Charlie Whitehurst.
Vince Young.
There has got to be others.
Link - ( New Window )
Mike Zimmer agrees...
Oops.... - ( New Window )
Google "Brian Kelly two point conversion" and there's just pages and pages of articles killing him for these indefensible decisions.
You have to get the FG to make it a two score game. So the first down run didn't gain anything. Who cares. Do not risk the sack or holding penalty.
Two pass plays and they get both and have to punt the game away.
Atlanta was reeling, having seen a 28-3 lead in the 3RD QUARTER dwindle to 28-20.
A Field Goal would have almost certainly ended the game.
To me, this was the most outrageously stupid play call I ever saw.
The Jets were down by 3 points on a final drive of the game. The Jets win this game and they're in the playoffs.
Neil O'Donnell takes the Jets on a storybook final drive. They got the ball to the 9 yard line. Instead of playing the clock and kicking a tying field goal, Tuna called a pass play. Not just any pass play, but a halfback option with rookie running back Leon Johnson throwing the ball. Result... interception in the end zone; game over.
If Giants Special Teams coach Tom Quinn directed Matt Dodge to kick to DeShaun Jackson in 2010 at MatLife, that was a historically bad call too.
If Giants Special Teams coach Tom Quinn directed Matt Dodge to kick to DeShaun Jackson in 2010 at MatLife, that was a historically bad call too.
Different era... there was no kneel down. The problem with 'the Fumble' was that Pisarcik and Csonka were on different planets. That was 100% failure to execute a routine play in a critical part of the game.
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the smart play was to fall short
Mike Zimmer agrees... Oops.... - ( New Window )
This game was outdoor and 3rd coldest game in NFL history.
But those are just facts that confuse this really difficult issue...
If Giants Special Teams coach Tom Quinn directed Matt Dodge to kick to DeShaun Jackson in 2010 at MatLife, that was a historically bad call too.
The HC call that was bad was continuing to employ Tom Quinn, not the play itself...
- not having Bradshaw fall short of endzone at end of Super Bowl
Eli said they discussed falling short on a run play and reminded everyone of that in the huddle. And you can even tell by Bradshaw's reaction that he realized/remembered it too late.
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- not having Bradshaw fall short of endzone at end of Super Bowl
Eli said they discussed falling short on a run play and reminded everyone of that in the huddle. And you can even tell by Bradshaw's reaction that he realized/remembered it too late.
That's not what i recall. The call to sit down did not come in from the sideline, and Eli didn't give the call in the huddle. Eli noticed it when he saw the Pats line stand up right after the snap, and he yelled "don't score" to Bradshaw but his momentum carried him in.
Yes we won, I am aware.
The Jets were down by 3 points on a final drive of the game. The Jets win this game and they're in the playoffs.
Neil O'Donnell takes the Jets on a storybook final drive. They got the ball to the 9 yard line. Instead of playing the clock and kicking a tying field goal, Tuna called a pass play. Not just any pass play, but a halfback option with rookie running back Leon Johnson throwing the ball. Result... interception in the end zone; game over.
Wasn’t that Ray Lucas and not O’Donnell?
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John McVay calling a hand-off to Larry Czonka when they could have taken a knee might be the worst play-call in NFL history.
If Giants Special Teams coach Tom Quinn directed Matt Dodge to kick to DeShaun Jackson in 2010 at MatLife, that was a historically bad call too.
Different era... there was no kneel down. The problem with 'the Fumble' was that Pisarcik and Csonka were on different planets. That was 100% failure to execute a routine play in a critical part of the game.
Agreed. That said, it was still the era of the audible. Perhaps Piscarcik wasn’t granted audible privileges, but still, he should have just sat on the ball. Period. In those days, he might have gotten a token fine which might have been eaten, given the Win.
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In comment 14488071 Jimmy Googs said:
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- not having Bradshaw fall short of endzone at end of Super Bowl
Eli said they discussed falling short on a run play and reminded everyone of that in the huddle. And you can even tell by Bradshaw's reaction that he realized/remembered it too late.
That's not what i recall. The call to sit down did not come in from the sideline, and Eli didn't give the call in the huddle. Eli noticed it when he saw the Pats line stand up right after the snap, and he yelled "don't score" to Bradshaw but his momentum carried him in.
Yes we won, I am aware.
Yeah that's what I remember from America's game. Eli said he thought about saying it in huddle, even walking to the LOS, but decided not to. Then started yelling it mid play (as if that was LESS confusing!)
To me, not having a clear plan was the issue and on the staff first. This while BB / NE was giving up the TD knowing it's his best chance to W
Also - why can't you learn from mistakes in Ws? Pros don't view it like that, otherwise they'd only review tapes of Ls
Off topic here but I was listening to Bob Glauber's book about Walsh, Gibbs and Parcells that came out last year. I'm still early into it and I think it's great. You can listen to it on Audible for free if you have an Amazon prime account. You have to sign up for a trial that you can cancel in 30 days but you get two free books to listen to.
Anyway lots of stuff I never knew in the early chapters. Bill Walsh was passed over for the Bengals job by Paul Brown which most of us knew but Walsh thought for the rest of his life it cost him the Jets job he applied for the year they hired Lou Holtz because the Jets figured there had to be a reason Brown passed over him. So Bill Walsh wanted to be and could have been the Jets coach.
Also there was some relationship with Walsh and McVay from before McVay was with the Giants. McVay invited Walsh to "clinic" the Giants on offense while he was between jobs. Too bad Walsh wasn't McVay's OC.
When Walsh was hired to coach the 49ers he and Debartolo were looking for a personnel/GM type. They were turned down by their top two choices George Young and Ernie Accorsi. Young told them he wanted and was going to get the Giants job and Accorsi didn't want to relocate his family from Baltimore - he had 3 young kids under 10 years old and we all know how much he loved the Colts.
They wound up offering the job to McVay who didn't have any other offers and McVay was a huge underrated part of the 49ers dynasty as their defacto GM.
There is also a lot of discussion about Simms being Walsh's' top QB choice but he had no 1st round pick and Montana being drafted in 1979. It seems both Bart Starr in Green Bay and Gil Brandt in Dallas wanted to pick Montana before the 49ers did. Landry told Brandt if you draft him I'm going to cut him after training camp we have 3 guys who are better already and you're going to waste our 3rd pick.
The Cowboys had Staubach, Danny White and Glenn Carano. They used the pick for Doug Cosbie who was a pretty good TE. Brandt said it was the only time in all his years with Landry that they didn't follow their board and jumped a player.
How One Bad Giants Call Ended an N.F.L. Career - ( New Window )
If you can run, you run because it's less risky. And it seems beyond questionable to do the opposite on the biggest play to win the biggest game
If you can run, you run because it's less risky. And it seems beyond questionable to do the opposite on the biggest play to win the biggest game
As Charlie Weis opined this morning on Sirius, the Pats (whom he was rooting for obviously) were gassed at that point. They should have lined-up and run the ball right then and there. No timeout, just run it.
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Seahawks Pats is hard to beat. What an awful awful decision w/ Lynch destroying the Pats that drive
If you can run, you run because it's less risky. And it seems beyond questionable to do the opposite on the biggest play to win the biggest game
As Charlie Weis opined this morning on Sirius, the Pats (whom he was rooting for obviously) were gassed at that point. They should have lined-up and run the ball right then and there. No timeout, just run it.
Yup everything was even pointing to it, as you're saying
But even strategically: Carroll was quoted saying the goaline quick slant had worked 95%+ that year, with 0 TOs. Yet no matter what stats you look at: throwing the ball is always riskier than running. Yes, an RB could fumble yet it's a much less likely TO than a ball in the air
Sure it was a fantastic play - the D outexecuted the O. But never should have happened on 2nd down especially
I don't disagree with the Play call, the execution of it was what made that play terrible.
The execution by Russel Wilson was terrible. You just can't throw a pick in that situation. You throw it to a wide open receiver or away.
Wilson was perhaps spoiled because that particular play was their "cheater" go to play that year. I believe they had been 3/3 or 4/4 that season up until that final play for TDs (which is what Ernie Adams picked up in scouting the Seahawks). As much as I criticize Wilson more than just about anyone else on the planet, I don't think he can get all of the blame given how fast that throw needed to be made if it was going to be made. But I won't disagree entirely if you insist it's his fault, LOL.
Another thing that many people miss is that Seattle did not make the worst call ever to throw the ball. In fact if you analyze it objectively, throwing the ball was the right thing to do in that situation more than running the ball.
Two reasons:
1) Seattle only had 1 time out
2) New England had goal line D up against 11 personnel
1: With one timeout left, if you fail, now you must call your final timeout with about 19-20 seconds left, 3rd and goal. Even assuming it's from the 1, do you really risk running it on that down? You fail and it becomes a mad panic to run another play in the most important play of the season.
Or you throw the ball. Maybe a good run/pass option that is safe. It's more like spiking the ball risk wise with the possibility of a score.
On 4th down with clock stopped, you can do whatever you want. But it still doesn't get away from the fact that you more than likely can't run it that many times and fail.
2: New England successfully stopped Lynch on a prior drive in a similar short yardage situation. It's just as likely they stop him here as well given they have 8 guys dedicated to it. Seattle running out of 11 personnel, had 3 WRs, a regular TE and no FB. Not sure that's ever going to win with any consistency.
Secondly, Lynch was I think 1/4 all year from the 1 yard line converting TDs.
The play prior, Lynch nearly scored a TD from five yards out if it weren't for Hightower's amazing tackle. IMO Lynch was always more effective when facing typical nickel defenses.
Anyway, in retrospect, a roll out where Wilson could throw it out of the end zone would have been a good call. Then they could pound the rock twice in a row with Lynch if they wanted to and lived/died with that decision.
*********
Little known fact, the Seahawks started that final drive with 3 time outs. So perhaps Carroll should shoulder some blame from not having just 1 more timeout when it was really important. They called their first one after a long play to Lynch I think. The second one was that long lucky throw to Jermaine Tyree, I mean, Kearse down the sideline.
You know why people remember Tyree helmet catch and not Kearse's catch? Because the Giants won the Super Bowl and the Seahawks didn't. The helmet catch might have been more skillful but Kearse's was far luckier. If anyone remembers Antonio Freeman with the walkoff TD in MNF against the Vikings in much the same way, these plays are divine intervention almost.
Anyway, I hate having to write a thesis defending the Seahawks but at the same time I also hate the fact that so many people assume the Seahawks choked the hell out of that game and Patriots got a lucky win. Far from the truth, although the Patriots were a bit fortunate to have practiced defending that play in practice enough times that it finally worked when it had to happen ("The Catch" never worked in practice either).
A worse HC play call happened the year prior when Jim Harbaugh called a timeout in the Super Bowl right before the snap when Kaepernick had an easy walk in score at the very end of the game. 6 real points taken off the board, and then no running attempts the next few plays, instead throwing fades to someone who can't catch them.
That was a worse sequence, definitely.
Off topic here but I was listening to Bob Glauber's book about Walsh, Gibbs and Parcells that came out last year. I'm still early into it and I think it's great. You can listen to it on Audible for free if you have an Amazon prime account. You have to sign up for a trial that you can cancel in 30 days but you get two free books to listen to.
Anyway lots of stuff I never knew in the early chapters. Bill Walsh was passed over for the Bengals job by Paul Brown which most of us knew but Walsh thought for the rest of his life it cost him the Jets job he applied for the year they hired Lou Holtz because the Jets figured there had to be a reason Brown passed over him. So Bill Walsh wanted to be and could have been the Jets coach.
Also there was some relationship with Walsh and McVay from before McVay was with the Giants. McVay invited Walsh to "clinic" the Giants on offense while he was between jobs. Too bad Walsh wasn't McVay's OC.
When Walsh was hired to coach the 49ers he and Debartolo were looking for a personnel/GM type. They were turned down by their top two choices George Young and Ernie Accorsi. Young told them he wanted and was going to get the Giants job and Accorsi didn't want to relocate his family from Baltimore - he had 3 young kids under 10 years old and we all know how much he loved the Colts.
They wound up offering the job to McVay who didn't have any other offers and McVay was a huge underrated part of the 49ers dynasty as their defacto GM.
There is also a lot of discussion about Simms being Walsh's' top QB choice but he had no 1st round pick and Montana being drafted in 1979. It seems both Bart Starr in Green Bay and Gil Brandt in Dallas wanted to pick Montana before the 49ers did. Landry told Brandt if you draft him I'm going to cut him after training camp we have 3 guys who are better already and you're going to waste our 3rd pick.
The Cowboys had Staubach, Danny White and Glenn Carano. They used the pick for Doug Cosbie who was a pretty good TE. Brandt said it was the only time in all his years with Landry that they didn't follow their board and jumped a player. How One Bad Giants Call Ended an N.F.L. Career - ( New Window )
That era of football from early 70s to early 90s will always be more captivating to me from the head coach perspective. While people look at Belichick as this singular GOAT entity, back then the Walsh/Parcells/Gibbs triumvirate was something to behold. Not a whole lot separated those guys, and we haven't seen 3-4 guys at that level now that could replace them mythically.
I'll check this book out for sure.
Games were big leads are obtained and then lost are tricky to call, maybe the trickiest.
If anyone recalls the year prior, the Panthers took a 31-0 lead in the first half against the Seahawks in the divisional round. Then they proceed to put up nothing in the second half and barely hold off the Seahawks 31-24.
It is my opinion that games between two good teams where a huge lead by one is obtained is very hard to hold, either psychologically or maybe game plan wise everything was used and now they can be countered better....I dunno.
The Falcons were not 25 points better than the Patriots, so you figured a comeback of some sort was going to happen.
Shanahan's logic I believe was to keep going with what worked, which was to be very aggressive the whole game. To go conservative and possibly lose the game would have maybe been seen as worse. Damned if you do...
He met with Belichick after the combine a few weeks later to go over the game. I'm sure some good details came out of that one.
I think the '90s had worthy guys. Jimmy Johnson was seen as indispensable. Seifert with hindsight was better than given credit for. Holmgren and Shanahan were formidable.
One thing Belichick can't do is make a coaching tree anywhere near the muscle of Parcells/Walsh (not sure about Gibbs). It has to be intentional.
I was there and as a fan I thought at the time we should go for it. That said, they were near the 50 and only needed a FG to tie us. Up to that point they hadn’t scored on us the entire second half after having taken a 14-3 lead the first half. In reality, let them start out from their own 20 (which they did after we punted) and drive much of the field. The odds were probably with us stopping them given how we blanked them in quarters 3 and most of 4.
Obviously, it didn’t work out for us
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in 1958 championship game. On third down, Giants got screwed on ball placement in the brouhaha over Gino Marchetti's injury. First down wins the game but Giants punted the ball to Colts and Unitas, they tie the game and...you know the rest. Just channeling my father here. He was screaming "Go For It You Dumb SOB" at the radio and swore when Giants punted they would lose. He thought Howell was a "dumb hick" and apparently, some Giants players did, too, including Gifford.
I was there and as a fan I thought at the time we should go for it. That said, they were near the 50 and only needed a FG to tie us. Up to that point they hadn’t scored on us the entire second half after having taken a 14-3 lead the first half. In reality, let them start out from their own 20 (which they did after we punted) and drive much of the field. The odds were probably with us stopping them given how we blanked them in quarters 3 and most of 4.
Obviously, it didn’t work out for us
Yeah, I know. But my 11-year old self is still crying himself to sleep. :)
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In comment 14488829 clatterbuck said:
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in 1958 championship game. On third down, Giants got screwed on ball placement in the brouhaha over Gino Marchetti's injury. First down wins the game but Giants punted the ball to Colts and Unitas, they tie the game and...you know the rest. Just channeling my father here. He was screaming "Go For It You Dumb SOB" at the radio and swore when Giants punted they would lose. He thought Howell was a "dumb hick" and apparently, some Giants players did, too, including Gifford.
I was there and as a fan I thought at the time we should go for it. That said, they were near the 50 and only needed a FG to tie us. Up to that point they hadn’t scored on us the entire second half after having taken a 14-3 lead the first half. In reality, let them start out from their own 20 (which they did after we punted) and drive much of the field. The odds were probably with us stopping them given how we blanked them in quarters 3 and most of 4.
Obviously, it didn’t work out for us
Yeah, I know. But my 11-year old self is still crying himself to sleep. :)
I can more than relate. My parents were divorced, so I was staying with my Dad and stepmom through the Christmas vacation. The game took place on Dec. 28th..Except to eat, I literally stayed in my room for several days. I was that distraught..
And they have more credibility than you all...
:-)
Was that Triplett?
When your opponent is gassed, hit him in the mouth.
When your opponent is gassed, hit him in the mouth.
I was concerned with points at such a premium that it was possible for one more drive and another FG to win it. That's exactly how the rematch was won in January.
Was more than one call, but year
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and everyone knew it. They weren't stopping Lynch had he got the call.
When your opponent is gassed, hit him in the mouth.
If they run Lynch and he's actually stopped there, you'd have criticism that the play was too obvious to succeed... I think it was a terrible play call, but not worse than the sins committed by Atlanta.
But you have a TO and 2 more plays. And while you have to pass on 3rd most likely for clock, you can go either way on 4th again
But if you F up on 2nd, calling among the riskiest bang-bang plays - not a fade, but as close to the OL as you can get on 'hot read' type throw? On the last play of the biggest game? We saw, you lose right there. And there was no need to be THAT aggressive, even if it worked. That's ignoring ML was probably your best bet to get 1-2 yds in the first place, not just this game but likely his entire Seahawk career