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NFT: Where do the Mets go from here?

CMicks3110 : 7/1/2019 10:33 am
The franchise is in a weird place. They have some absolute studs on their roster n McNeil, Alonso and deGrom, all who should be good for quite a while. They also have talented core players such as Conforto, Nimmo (when healthy), Rosario & Diaz (both have underperformed but are young and very talented); there are talented role players such as DomSmith and JD Davis, and then their are the underperforming but still very talented rotation and bullpen pieces in (Matz, Syndergaard, Lugo, Gsellman);

We then have a handful of veterans that we really can't trade---Cano, Cespedes, Lowrie, Familia, Justin Wilson.

So, next year, we really have 18 players who, barring something unprecedented) are likely on the OD roster.

In the near-term, we almost certainly have to sell--Wheeler, Frazier, Wilson Ramos; maybe we can fetch something for Lagares or Hecheverria, even Vargas could get us something.

_________________________________________________________________________

If we look to next season, I can't see a complete rebuild, not with the veterans with have on the roster, and not with a lot of the talent in their prime.

I would have to hope we get some ML talent in return for a trading deadline deals.

But the reality is we have to somehow figure out a way to fix our bullpen. We have blown 20 leads this year, if we held even half of them we're talking about a completely different season. We're losing at the end of games when we shouldn't and the talent is just not performing.

The one thing the dodgers/yankees/rays have seemed to figure out how to do is to get their talent to perform to that absolute best. They have gotten tremendous returns on obscure players like Luke Voit, Max Muncey, Gio Urshala, Chris Taylor, DJ Lemehui, Tommy Pham. Heck, the Rays have turned tDA into a good hitting catcher.

While they are maximizing their talent, we're getting underperformance from players who at face value seem like they should be significantly more talented. I can totally see Zack Wheeler going to another team and winning a cy young next year, same with Syndergaard if we traded him. It's beyond just bad luck.

Somehow we need to infuse our front offices, our player development, and coaching with new talent and build our analytic infrastructure to catch up with the rest of baseball, because until we do, we're going to be woefully behind. It seems like a better investment to spend $20 million in analytics, technology, player development than a broken down Robinson Cano or a faltering Jeurys Familia. We can get those performances for pennies of what they're costing us.

Anyway, rant over.


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RE: RE: RE: RE: I dont see how Nimmo puts Smith on the bench next year  
ZGiants98 : 7/2/2019 1:15 pm : link
In comment 14489437 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14489424 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14489395 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 14489385 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


They have been playing Nimmo in CF. Smith stays in left and McNeil moves to third with Frazier gone.



So Lowrie is on the bench? Based on the track record the Mets have, I'm going to assume that they'll play the highly paid veteran until proven otherwise.



Lowrie will be 36 years old on the final year of his deal. Yes, they absolutely will make Lowrie a sub for what will then be a proven Smith and McNeil. And besides that, when are we going to learn that no team ever stays perfectly healthy anyways? It always works out.



I'm not ready to say Smith is "proven" after 140ABs.


Well I guess its good we are talking about 2020 then in which case he will have plenty more than 140. ;)
RE: .  
Mike in NY : 7/2/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14489653 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
The Mets Blog
‏ @metsblog
1m1 minute ago

Mets prospect Brett Baty promoted to next level just five games into pro career http://dlvr.it/R7gyLM


Kelenic moved up soon after being drafted...
If we want some "positive"  
Metnut : 7/2/2019 2:34 pm : link
Kelenic news, he's really struggled in 75 or so ABs since being called up to high a-ball.
RE: If we want some  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14489773 Metnut said:
Quote:
Kelenic news, he's really struggled in 75 or so ABs since being called up to high a-ball.


He was hit on the wrist by a pitch, missed a couple weeks and has struggled since returning. My guess is it's injury related.
.  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 3:15 pm : link

Mike Puma
‏Verified account @NYPost_Mets
5s6 seconds ago

Familia and Aviln are activated and Luis Guillorme has been recalled. Flexen and Nogosek are optioned. Pounders DFA.
Lol  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 3:17 pm : link
the Mets tweeted out an ad to watch a 30/30 on tonight at 8... ya know... the same time the game is on? lol
Justin Wilson  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 3:43 pm : link
also activated, Mazza sent down.
RE: Lol  
Eric on Li : 7/2/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14489848 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the Mets tweeted out an ad to watch a 30/30 on tonight at 8... ya know... the same time the game is on? lol


if we were all smarter we'd listen to them.
RE: RE: Lol  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 3:47 pm : link
In comment 14489904 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14489848 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the Mets tweeted out an ad to watch a 30/30 on tonight at 8... ya know... the same time the game is on? lol



if we were all smarter we'd listen to them.


Yeah, I don't think that was a joke or a mistake. Sadly.
Conforto drops to 7th in the lineup  
Metnut : 7/2/2019 3:51 pm : link
vs the lefty. Cano still batting in the middle of the order.

Accountability.
Matz to the bullpen  
Metnut : 7/2/2019 4:11 pm : link
at least until the all-star break. Mickey didn't exactly give a resounding yes to him being in rotation second half, even though he did say he expects Matz back into the rotation.
Dilson Herrera  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 6:39 pm : link
opts out of his Mets contract, becomes a FA
RE: Dilson Herrera  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/2/2019 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14490161 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
opts out of his Mets contract, becomes a FA


Smart. Why would anyone want to be there.
RE: Conforto drops to 7th in the lineup  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/2/2019 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14489920 Metnut said:
Quote:
vs the lefty. Cano still batting in the middle of the order.

Accountability.

Cano sporting a .465 OPS vs LHP.
RE: RE: Dilson Herrera  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 7:01 pm : link
In comment 14490162 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14490161 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


opts out of his Mets contract, becomes a FA



Smart. Why would anyone want to be there.


Money is as green with the Mets as it is anywhere. He was a FA without much interest and signed a minor league deal with the Mets.
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 7:17 pm : link
embarrassing. Wow

Zach Braziller

Verified account

@NYPost_Brazille
Following Following @NYPost_Brazille
More
Chants of Brodie, Brodie, Brodie. #mets

Translate Tweet
I'm actually surprised he went through  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 7:19 pm : link
with it, he does have some brass balls, but as long as those fans keep showing up, especially idiots chanting his name in praise, nothing will change in Queens.
RE: I'm actually surprised he went through  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14490181 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
with it, he does have some brass balls, but as long as those fans keep showing up, especially idiots chanting his name in praise, nothing will change in Queens.


7 line are beyond homers. He knew what he was doing.
38-47  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 7:21 pm : link
and they chant his name. Sad. Cringeworthy.
RE: RE: I'm actually surprised he went through  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14490182 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14490181 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


with it, he does have some brass balls, but as long as those fans keep showing up, especially idiots chanting his name in praise, nothing will change in Queens.



7 line are beyond homers. He knew what he was doing.


Shouldn't they be the most pissed off?
...  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 7:22 pm : link


Zach Braziller

Verified account

@NYPost_Brazille
2h2 hours ago
More
Brodie Van Wagenen has a 7 Line t-shirt on as he's watching BP. #mets
Nope  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 7:23 pm : link
they drink the Mets bathwater, have a relationship with the players. They are an extension of the team.
lol  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2019 7:23 pm : link
" Jer Troiano


@InTheMindOfJer
3m3 minutes ago
More
Replying to @NYPost_Brazille
7 Line is always the same... They pretend to care about bad performance... They just care about being acknowledged. If Chase Utley wanted to sit with him they would take turns, ordering him beer, giving him a back massages and fanning him."
RE: lol  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 7:27 pm : link
In comment 14490187 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
" Jer Troiano


@InTheMindOfJer
3m3 minutes ago
More
Replying to @NYPost_Brazille
7 Line is always the same... They pretend to care about bad performance... They just care about being acknowledged. If Chase Utley wanted to sit with him they would take turns, ordering him beer, giving him a back massages and fanning him."


unrelated to this, I sat next to Chase Utley's wife at Shea one game behind home plate. I couldn't watch the game.
Speaking if sitting next to  
Shecky : 7/2/2019 7:36 pm : link
Wonder if theres any chance those fans sitting next to Brodie will convince him to fir Mickey after this series?
RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2019 10:22 pm : link
In comment 14489708 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14489653 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


The Mets Blog
‏ @metsblog
1m1 minute ago

Mets prospect Brett Baty promoted to next level just five games into pro career http://dlvr.it/R7gyLM



Kelenic moved up soon after being drafted...


I'd like to see the move Francisco Alvarez up too. Maybe a little aggressive, but he's just 17, but if he is the goods and they can get a legit catcher at 20 or 21 and can pencil in that position for the next decade it would be huge.

Obviously a lot of projection, just not sure how much difference there is between GCL and KING
The purpose of the 7Line  
Metnut : 7/2/2019 10:29 pm : link
is to be complete homers. They are a fan club. Im as critical of the Mets as anyone but IMO its cool that a group like they exists and does outings, tailgates, and road trips, etc.
They probably enjoy some arrangements with the team as far as  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/2/2019 10:37 pm : link
seats. So why would they be critical
If anyone wants to throw up  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 11:57 am : link
and has an Athletic subscription read the following link about the Mariners and Kelenic. You almost get the feel BVW was a "useful idiot".

Quote:
When Jerry met Jarred: The day the Mariners fell in love


Quote:
I said, Im good lets take him, Hunter said. Probably the single most impressive BP I have ever seen by an amateur player.



Link - ( New Window )
Nothing we all don't already know  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 12:18 pm : link
but somehow seeing it in a tweet makes it worse.


Mathew Brownstein
‏ @MBrownstein89
6s6 seconds ago

Mathew Brownstein Retweeted Tim Healey

The numbers does lie:

2017 DRS: -72 (30th in MLB)
2018 DRS: -77 (27th in MLB)
2019 DRS: -65 (29th in MLB)

#Mets
RE: Nothing we all don't already know  
Eric on Li : 7/3/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14490701 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but somehow seeing it in a tweet makes it worse.


Mathew Brownstein
‏ @MBrownstein89
6s6 seconds ago

Mathew Brownstein Retweeted Tim Healey

The numbers does lie:

2017 DRS: -72 (30th in MLB)
2018 DRS: -77 (27th in MLB)
2019 DRS: -65 (29th in MLB)

#Mets


It goes back even further than that. Defense has been a major issue for a decade.
RE: RE: Nothing we all don't already know  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14490731 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14490701 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but somehow seeing it in a tweet makes it worse.


Mathew Brownstein
‏ @MBrownstein89
6s6 seconds ago

Mathew Brownstein Retweeted Tim Healey

The numbers does lie:

2017 DRS: -72 (30th in MLB)
2018 DRS: -77 (27th in MLB)
2019 DRS: -65 (29th in MLB)

#Mets



It goes back even further than that. Defense has been a major issue for a decade.


agree, but at least in 2015 and 2016 the Mets made the playoffs. I'll take bad D, if there are other parts of the roster that can accommodate it.
.  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 3:42 pm : link
Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets
We got Kazmir'd on that trade so hard.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/3/2019 3:42 pm : link
.
RE: .  
Metnut : 7/3/2019 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets


Dilson might be a better defender too.
Should have insured this contract  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 4:23 pm : link
if they didn't.

I know this is tin foil hat theory territory and I say it mostly jokingly, but it would be very Mets-like to intentionally sign oft-injured players and insure the contracts knowing they will likely recoup insurance money they never have to reinvest to the payroll.


Zach Braziller
‏Verified account @NYPost_Brazille
6s6 seconds ago

Mickey says Jed Lowrie making no progress toward rehab assignment. Wouldnt disclose injury hes dealing with. #mets
RE: .  
GF1080 : 7/3/2019 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets


This is a terrible take from an early BVW hater.
RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14490937 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets



This is a terrible take from an early BVW hater.


It's not really a take IMO, he said no one could have predicted it.

RE: RE: RE: .  
GF1080 : 7/3/2019 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14490948 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14490937 GF1080 said:


Quote:


In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets



This is a terrible take from an early BVW hater.



It's not really a take IMO, he said no one could have predicted it.


It's pointless. It's a dumb tweet. Davis has been one of the only bright spots even with his bad D.
Davis has been fine  
pjcas18 : 7/3/2019 4:51 pm : link
the point though, is he was unnecessary.

which is a legit point.
Turns out not all is well on the farm  
Eric on Li : 7/4/2019 10:40 pm : link
Fireworks night in St Lucie didn't go as planned.

RE: Davis has been fine  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/4/2019 11:31 pm : link
In comment 14490967 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the point though, is he was unnecessary.

which is a legit point.

Comparing AAA numbers with ML numbers is not legit. Weve seen more than enough AAA hitting stars shit the bed in Flushing to know that.
RE: Turns out not all is well on the farm  
Mad Mike : 7/5/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14492093 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Fireworks night in St Lucie didn't go as planned.


They caused a fire in 2017 too. Maybe time to hire new fireworks guys.
Speaking of minors on fire  
Shecky : 7/5/2019 1:17 pm : link
Has anyone been following the prospects without Dans Daily Updates? Not a lot to be happy about with the big club, but the kids sure look good. Amazing what a refocus on player DEVELOPMENT could do!!!

And its on,y getting better on the lowest of low levels!!! Infusion of talented teenagers is seriously better in the last 13 months than I can ever remember. Especially the past four months. Overflowing.

Sorry for the glass half full, but it needs to be put out there ;)
RE: RE: Davis has been fine  
pjcas18 : 7/5/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14492109 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14490967 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


the point though, is he was unnecessary.

which is a legit point.


Comparing AAA numbers with ML numbers is not legit. Weve seen more than enough AAA hitting stars shit the bed in Flushing to know that.


I don't think that was the point of the tweet. I'm just assuming here, but I believe the author was suggesting that JD Davis-like production could be obtained from a number of sources that would not have cost the Mets two top 20 prospects.
RE: Speaking of minors on fire  
pjcas18 : 7/5/2019 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14492406 Shecky said:
Quote:
Has anyone been following the prospects without Dans Daily Updates? Not a lot to be happy about with the big club, but the kids sure look good. Amazing what a refocus on player DEVELOPMENT could do!!!

And its on,y getting better on the lowest of low levels!!! Infusion of talented teenagers is seriously better in the last 13 months than I can ever remember. Especially the past four months. Overflowing.

Sorry for the glass half full, but it needs to be put out there ;)


Who are you specifically enthused about?

Mauricio seems to be separating himself as the star of the system, but the top 3 picks from this draft could join him.

Vientos is heating up, Szapucki, after a scare (to me because his rehab has taken so long) seems to be pitching more regularly and was promoted.

the past two IFA headliners, Valdez and Francisco Alvarez both have promising starts to their pro careers.

I'd love to see the Mets push Alvarez a little, having a young everyday plus catcher would make a huge difference.

SWR is pitching to a league above his age, and has done a lot of good (and some bad).

there are other interesting names at the higher levels, Kay, Villenes, etc.

I check the boxes everyday - the site linked below is great as an aggregator
Link - ( New Window )
RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 7/5/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets


Are you really comparing what Dilson Herrera is doing in AAA to what JD Davis is doing in the majors and saying that it's a legit point?
RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 7/5/2019 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14492427 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets



Are you really comparing what Dilson Herrera is doing in AAA to what JD Davis is doing in the majors and saying that it's a legit point?


I didn't write the tweet.

Again, I believe the author of the tweets point is that comparable production to JD Davis could have been obtained from a number of sources and it did not necessarily require trading of two Mets top 20 prospects to obtain.

And I believe it was a completely legitimate point.

Davis' 0.8 fWAR is not worth two top 20 prospects, and he doesn't play a position the Mets need. a 119 wRC+ is good, but not on an NL team when you have no position.
RE: RE: RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 7/5/2019 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14492430 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14492427 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets



Are you really comparing what Dilson Herrera is doing in AAA to what JD Davis is doing in the majors and saying that it's a legit point?



I didn't write the tweet.

Again, I believe the author of the tweets point is that comparable production to JD Davis could have been obtained from a number of sources and it did not necessarily require trading of two Mets top 20 prospects to obtain.

And I believe it was a completely legitimate point.

Davis' 0.8 fWAR is not worth two top 20 prospects, and he doesn't play a position the Mets need. a 119 wRC+ is good, but not on an NL team when you have no position.


Well, there's two different points here. Yes, I agree that we did not have to give up the two prospects.

The author of the tweet didn't say that JD's production could have been obtained by a number of sources. He's said that Dilson could have easily provided the same production. There is no way you can legitimize someone listing Dilson's AAA stats and say that he could have easily replicated what JD has done in the majors. It's an ignorant, lazy comparison.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 7/5/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14492439 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14492430 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14492427 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14490880 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Steve Sypa
🌹
‏ @SteveSypa
21h21 hours ago

Its not like anybody couldve predicted it, but Dilson Herrera (258/.355/.566, 126 wRC+ in AAA) could have very easily replicated what J.D. Davis has done (278/.343/.454, 113 wRC+), and Luis Santana and Ross Adolph would still be in the system. #mets



Are you really comparing what Dilson Herrera is doing in AAA to what JD Davis is doing in the majors and saying that it's a legit point?



I didn't write the tweet.

Again, I believe the author of the tweets point is that comparable production to JD Davis could have been obtained from a number of sources and it did not necessarily require trading of two Mets top 20 prospects to obtain.

And I believe it was a completely legitimate point.

Davis' 0.8 fWAR is not worth two top 20 prospects, and he doesn't play a position the Mets need. a 119 wRC+ is good, but not on an NL team when you have no position.



Well, there's two different points here. Yes, I agree that we did not have to give up the two prospects.

The author of the tweet didn't say that JD's production could have been obtained by a number of sources. He's said that Dilson could have easily provided the same production. There is no way you can legitimize someone listing Dilson's AAA stats and say that he could have easily replicated what JD has done in the majors. It's an ignorant, lazy comparison.


Yes, I agree with your last sentence, but since he began the tweet with "it's not like anyone could have predicted it..."

I believe because of that it's really just exemplary to make the broader point.

just my interpretation of the tweet.
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