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NFT: Knicks chat 7/2

Sean : 7/2/2019 8:31 am
How are we all feeling? Personally, I like what they’re doing. The highlights:

-Young, hungry players on short term contracts competing. Hopefully this helps everyone get better.

-All future draft picks in place in addition to picks from the KP trade.

-Maintaining cap flexibility going forward.

If there is one thing I’ve realized, tanking is way overblown. The Knicks don’t be a FA destination until they win. Going out there and competing is the next thing for them right now. Need to build a culture.
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Regarding the tanking,  
robbieballs2003 : 7/2/2019 8:33 am : link
it is about percentages. It isn't a guarantee. It is just playing the odds. To land FA? There are many factors that go into that and some aren't controllable. With the draft, the only thing that is controllable is getting a top 4 pick at best. With that said, lets hope Barrett becomes the NBA player we all hope so we can look back at this time and say it was the turning point of this franchise.
I'm bummed out about the modern NBA landscape  
Chris684 : 7/2/2019 8:39 am : link
and players but the Knicks are doing everything they should be doing right now.

I'm actually more pissed off that the Lakers are having their way again, mainly due to LeBron's business connections than I am about KD/Irving going to Brooklyn.

I was on here pretty much begging for reasons to get excited about Durant coming to NYK and I could never wrap my head around it. His next time on the court will be at 32 with a surgically repaired achilles tendon. Don't even get me started on Kyrie Irving.

I wanted (a healthy) Kevin Durant and Anthony Davis when the offseason started and KD's injury killed both of those birds with one stone.

Draft, develop, compete. That's what the Knicks need to do right now.
Fizdale  
TyreeHelmet : 7/2/2019 8:46 am : link
This is a prove it year for Fizdale and he’ll be judged mainly on 3 guys- Knox, Barrett and Robinson. They defitinely need to win more than 17 games but even more importantly those 3 need to flash. With how this offseason has unfolded, Knox is really the key to the Knicks future success. He needs to drastically improve.

Is Knox playing in the Summer League?
I'm not sure how anyone can be excited  
aimrocky : 7/2/2019 8:47 am : link
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.
As a Knicks fan I'm excited about  
Chris684 : 7/2/2019 8:50 am : link
the possible/potential of DSJ, Knox, Barrett and Robinson.

To a lesser extent I'm excited to watch Randle play as I loved him at Kentucky.

There's not much more than that, but it's a start.
If you actually look at the knicks moves  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 8:50 am : link
i know it is hard to jjst look at the deals without thinking about kd and irving with brooklyn butnif you look at it independently of that, knicks made smart moves even when you take the contracts out of it...

The 3 bigs the knicks signed. Julius Randle has the biggest upside obviously, the second half of last year was 25 and 11 and had a +6 WS. I think he has all star potential and will be the number 1 or 2 scoring option on this team..

All 4 bigs on this team are interchangeable, you can play any 2 and it will work. That is important for roster flexibility, you dont have 2 guys for the same spot, everyone can play together.

Bullock and Ellington, 3 point shooters off the bench or you can put one next to smith and barrett to spread the floor when they drive to the paint.

Payton is a distributor, has not really taken off like people have wanted to and will be interesting the camp battle between him and smith jr.

People will say the knicks added a lot of nothing, they added a lot of dpeth around their young team, that can play with their young players rather than take shots away from their young players. I dont think this group of "vets" will just be looking for theirs like hardaway, burke and kanter.

RE: I'm not sure how anyone can be excited  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14489252 aimrocky said:
Quote:
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.


if i told you they would sign a 23 year old that averaged 20 and 9 on 53 percent shooting you wouldnt be happy?
Knicks probably did the best they could pivoting  
Stu11 : 7/2/2019 8:51 am : link
The only better they probably could have done was taking on a contract or 2 to gain assets, but I'm not gonna lose sleep missing out on 2024 #1 picks. For the first time in years I'm gonna root for them to improve and win games this year. Forget about tanking.
RE: Fizdale  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14489251 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
This is a prove it year for Fizdale and he’ll be judged mainly on 3 guys- Knox, Barrett and Robinson. They defitinely need to win more than 17 games but even more importantly those 3 need to flash. With how this offseason has unfolded, Knox is really the key to the Knicks future success. He needs to drastically improve.

Is Knox playing in the Summer League?


yes and so is trier and robinson
RE: I'm not sure how anyone can be excited  
robbieballs2003 : 7/2/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14489252 aimrocky said:
Quote:
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.


Huh? This was the first year they tanked so how can this be rinse and repeat? How many years have we been players in FA for top tier FA? Twice over like a decade? Your perception is out of whack.
RE: I'm not sure how anyone can be excited  
giants#1 : 7/2/2019 8:53 am : link
In comment 14489252 aimrocky said:
Quote:
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.


Well in the past they would've signed those C & D level players to 4-5 year deals, so that's a positive change...
They're moving in the right direction  
Tony in Berlin : 7/2/2019 8:55 am : link
That's all I ask for at the moment. I believe that Smith, Barrett, Randle and Robinson are a decent core. And I wouldn't write off Knox. That plus the veterans they just signed should improve their record to 35 to 40 wins.
Its Lakers championships time....why bother with a season  
George from PA : 7/2/2019 8:56 am : link
The NBA season is a waste of my time.

The NETs wont win....so who cares where FA went.

Until the next Shaq, Magic, Jordon or LeBron gets in the league.....the winners are usually predetermined by a group of players
Knicks also hired their g-league coach  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 8:57 am : link
who has been very good developing players, their staff was built to develop now it is time to earn their money
RE: Its Lakers championships time....why bother with a season  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 8:57 am : link
In comment 14489267 George from PA said:
Quote:
The NBA season is a waste of my time.

The NETs wont win....so who cares where FA went.

Until the next Shaq, Magic, Jordon or LeBron gets in the league.....the winners are usually predetermined by a group of players


was it predetermined last year?
For me..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/2/2019 8:58 am : link
I'm excited as much about what they didn't do than what they did:

Quote:
I'm not sure how anyone can be excited
aimrocky : 8:47 am : link : reply
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.


Once Durant went down, the tea leaves all were turning up to say that Irving is going to implode the locker room and Durant is going to come back a hobbled, old man.

Is that really what people wanted?

I could have gotten behind a Leonard/Davis pairing, but barring that, the path the Knicks are taking is pretty damn solid.

And this isn't what they've done in the past. The past gives you Noah on a terrible contracts and a lot of similar moves.
more CULTUH! bullshit  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2019 8:58 am : link
.
RE: If you actually look at the knicks moves  
Stu11 : 7/2/2019 9:00 am : link
In comment 14489255 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i know it is hard to jjst look at the deals without thinking about kd and irving with brooklyn butnif you look at it independently of that, knicks made smart moves even when you take the contracts out of it...

The 3 bigs the knicks signed. Julius Randle has the biggest upside obviously, the second half of last year was 25 and 11 and had a +6 WS. I think he has all star potential and will be the number 1 or 2 scoring option on this team..

All 4 bigs on this team are interchangeable, you can play any 2 and it will work. That is important for roster flexibility, you dont have 2 guys for the same spot, everyone can play together.

Bullock and Ellington, 3 point shooters off the bench or you can put one next to smith and barrett to spread the floor when they drive to the paint.

Payton is a distributor, has not really taken off like people have wanted to and will be interesting the camp battle between him and smith jr.

People will say the knicks added a lot of nothing, they added a lot of dpeth around their young team, that can play with their young players rather than take shots away from their young players. I dont think this group of "vets" will just be looking for theirs like hardaway, burke and kanter.

Yea I agree they did a nice combo of adding young guys/vets and fitting it into a roster with bigs/shooters and a PG who averaged of 7 assists a game last year. Not an all star group, but something we can build with. In a round table I was watching last night with someone, Ramona Shelbourne and Scottie Pippen Shelbourne actually tepidly said she liked the talent the Knicks added and could see them making a run at the 7th or 8th seed, but quickly shut it down as not to disrupt the narrative that we are a total shit show and an embarrassment.
Leonard Davis?  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2019 9:00 am : link
What's he got to do with anything?
RE: more CULTUH! bullshit  
Chris684 : 7/2/2019 9:02 am : link
In comment 14489275 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Ugh, you are the worst.

Is there an internet sandbox we can all tell you to go play in whenever you're annoying? Which is basically every post you make.
Lose the Lottery  
Samiam : 7/2/2019 9:02 am : link
I wish people would stop saying that or they didn’t get Zion. Signing Noah or moves like that are mistakes. The lottery is pure luck. It’s like complaining about the weather
We won the lottery  
adamg : 7/2/2019 9:03 am : link
We beat the odds.
RE: RE: I'm not sure how anyone can be excited  
aimrocky : 7/2/2019 9:05 am : link
In comment 14489257 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14489252 aimrocky said:


Quote:


about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.



if i told you they would sign a 23 year old that averaged 20 and 9 on 53 percent shooting you wouldnt be happy?


I like the Randle signing in a vacuum, but it's nothing to get excited about.

Robbie, yes this may be their first foray into the top tier free agency in the past decade, but every off-season we get the Hezonja's, Derrick Williams', Michael Beasley of the league and are convinced the Knicks can turn chicken soup out of chicken shit. This team will not win a title this season, and very well may not make the playoffs. I'm not getting excited because the Knicks filled out the roster with cagey vets who can get us to 30 wins.
Who's this "we"?  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2019 9:06 am : link
Face it Chris - absolutely no one gives a shit about any of your posts. Sorry, Johnny-come-lately.
RE: For me..  
aimrocky : 7/2/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14489274 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I'm excited as much about what they didn't do than what they did:



Quote:


I'm not sure how anyone can be excited
aimrocky : 8:47 am : link : reply
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.



Once Durant went down, the tea leaves all were turning up to say that Irving is going to implode the locker room and Durant is going to come back a hobbled, old man.

Is that really what people wanted?

I could have gotten behind a Leonard/Davis pairing, but barring that, the path the Knicks are taking is pretty damn solid.

And this isn't what they've done in the past. The past gives you Noah on a terrible contracts and a lot of similar moves.


I get it. Their subsequent moves are fine. I'm not debating that. Exciting? Hardly... It feels like kicking the can down the road.

Now, if they can develop these kids, then it'll get exciting.
RE: I'm not sure how anyone can be excited  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/2/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14489252 aimrocky said:
Quote:
about what they've done. Every off-season feels like it's rinse and repeat... Tank, lose the lottery, strike out on Free Agency, sign lesser C & D level free agents to 1 or 2 year deals then turn the roster over again next year.


I dont think most would agree with that. Last year was the first season they were honestly tanking. It was a point of frustration for multiple seasons before that they seemed to not want to do it.

Also, I dont think you can say them taking the responsible approach and getting decent players on team option short term deals is "rinse and repeat". You can be dissatisfied with them not winning the lottery and free agents choosing not to be here, but the basketball decisions have been okay. That definitely isnt rinse and repeat for this franchise.
how about getting excited  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 9:12 am : link
because the knicks potentially have 4 young core pieces in place
Put me in the camp that is glad they didn't sign Durant. It's not  
Ira : 7/2/2019 9:13 am : link
just the year that he's going to miss, but the chances that he won't come back as the same player after that year. I'm not very excited about the signings, but I like that they were all short term contracts. They're playing a long term game and that's the right game for them to play.
Fizdale is dead man walking  
arniefez : 7/2/2019 9:14 am : link
he was not impressive last year but he wasn't hired to coach. He was hired to get the stink off Dolan and recruit tier one FA's. He'll be the next fall guy.
Also if a max player asks for a trade  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 9:14 am : link
Knicks are in prime position to make a deal
RE: Fizdale is dead man walking  
nygiants16 : 7/2/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14489303 arniefez said:
Quote:
he was not impressive last year but he wasn't hired to coach. He was hired to get the stink off Dolan and recruit tier one FA's. He'll be the next fall guy.


you continue to prove you have no idea what you are talking about
I will watch the Knicks and hope to see some good ball movement  
GiantsUA : 7/2/2019 9:17 am : link
and team basketball. And hopefully watch this team develop.

I think coach Fiz is a great communicator and he helps this group over achieve.

RE: how about getting excited  
Stu11 : 7/2/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14489299 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
because the knicks potentially have 4 young core pieces in place

Yeah I think this is what sets this aside with recent signing sprees. is that with the exception of Randle, who can be a core piece down the road, the rest are complimentary pieces and probably realize that (I think Portis & Payton probably think they can compete for big minutes and thats fine) Obviously the key is the development of Knox/RJ/DSJ/Mitch that will be the barometer of how high we can go. The perception thing can change quickly around here. Knicks fans are some of the most loyal/knowledgeable in the league. We are starving for good basketball and wins. You can see it at the Garden. Through this mess of 20 years whenever the Knicks are remotely competitive the Garden rocks like few other buildings can. Even a 40 win team will change the perception. Sure some of the ogres around here feel that unless you are a title contender you are shit and wasting your time, but that's not the city in general.
RE: RE: Its Lakers championships time....why bother with a season  
Mike in NJ : 7/2/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14489272 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14489267 George from PA said:


Quote:


The NBA season is a waste of my time.

The NETs wont win....so who cares where FA went.

Until the next Shaq, Magic, Jordon or LeBron gets in the league.....the winners are usually predetermined by a group of players



was it predetermined last year?


Can’t bank on guys like Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant getting hurt every year. If the Lakers land Kawhi they are two tiers ahead of the next best team. Leonard just dragged an above average Raptors roster to the championship, what’s he going to do with Lebron and Anthony Davis?

As a Knicks fan, I couldn’t care less about that, our window start 2 years from now. There are plenty of other reasons to still get league pass and watch some of the other young up and coming teams, but Leonard to the Lakers would take away pretty much all of the suspense around the playoffs.
rinse and repeat???  
Italianju : 7/2/2019 9:34 am : link
this is like the first year you cant see that. We didnt go out and build a team that gets the 9th pick, we didnt sign THJR level players to 5 year deals, we didnt trade for an over the hill vet and give up youth or picks. The knicks did everything right except convince a star to come here. Its a step in the right direction.

You should be able to get excited about the chance to see what Barrett, Mitch, and Knox can become. Funny thing is we are probably better next season then we would have been if we signed KD.
Flexbility  
TyreeHelmet : 7/2/2019 9:35 am : link
I keep seeing the Knicks brass stress "cap flexibility" and I really question this strategy. If this offseason has proved anything, its that team can always create cap space if necessary,the Knicks aren't currently a free agent destination and this current Knicks regime isn't interested in renting their cap space for future picks.

I understand that can change in the future, and I don't advocate giving out reckless long term contracts but I wish the focus was more on attaining better talent than about preserving cap flexibility.
All the  
Mike from SI : 7/2/2019 9:36 am : link
"at least we didnt sign C and D level free agents to long-term contracts" talk is congratulating them for not stepping on their own dicks. I guess if your kid is a solid D student and he brings home a C+ you get hopeful?

I'm excited for Mitch and Barrett, those are the 2 that I think can really become stars. I'm not giving up on Knox or DSJ but I'd like to see some improvement.

I don't get the post crapping on Fizdale.
flexibility makes all the sense in the world...  
Italianju : 7/2/2019 9:41 am : link
when your building around a young team. You dont want to lock into long term deals for the Bogdanovic's or Barnes of the world. Good players, who will get overpaid. They make sense if your a team like UTA who is going for it. Once the knicks have a core then they can overpay for good pieces to help put them over the top.

As for the renting capspace, we dont know if that is a thing right now. We saw exactly one trade so far that was picks for capspace, ONE. And since most big FA have signed i doubt we see more. Will there be in season opportunities, maybe, shoudl the knicks have saved like 10 mill in space, probably, but we dont know. Its like there were teams just throwing around first round picks and the knicks werent interested.
RE: Put me in the camp that is glad they didn't sign Durant. It's not  
Del Shofner : 7/2/2019 9:43 am : link
In comment 14489301 Ira said:
Quote:
just the year that he's going to miss, but the chances that he won't come back as the same player after that year. I'm not very excited about the signings, but I like that they were all short term contracts. They're playing a long term game and that's the right game for them to play.


I'm with you on this.

However, I also agree with those who say it's a prove-it year for Fiz. Let's see these players develop and gel.
I'm not "excited" really  
Jan in DC : 7/2/2019 9:45 am : link
but I fully support what the Knicks are doing. Sign a lot of guys to team friendly deals and punt the FA ball down the road. By giving all these players 1 year team options, they can give themselves flexibility this upcoming offseason. Now the FA class is supposed to suck, but that flexibilty also allows for those contracts to be much more attractive when the next disgruntled NBA superstar wants to be traded. Or wait for 2 years and then try to lure one of those marquee guys then.

But they need to win. Or at least have good players in place. So basically while we're sucking these next couple of years the top priority needs to be developing RJ, Randle and Robinson. And hitting on players in the draft with their and Dallas's picks. If the nucleus develops into near all star levels, it will be much easier to lure people to the Knicks because it's obvious that the mystique of the Garden or whatever is overshadowed by either the awfulness of the team for the last 30 years or Dolan or both.
RE: Put me in the camp that is glad they didn't sign Durant. It's not  
Enzo : 7/2/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14489301 Ira said:
Quote:
just the year that he's going to miss, but the chances that he won't come back as the same player after that year. I'm not very excited about the signings, but I like that they were all short term contracts. They're playing a long term game and that's the right game for them to play.

Agree that not getting this current version of Durant is not the end of the world. But to me, if they're truly playing the long term game, they could have used the space to acquire a pick or two. I get why they brought in a guy like Taj Gibson, but I think you can get a similar vet for the room exception or even the minimum at some point. You don't need to give him $10 million.
Pretty much have to be at our max salary level  
Carl in CT : 7/2/2019 9:47 am : link
I would think. Some of you CAP guys know more. I just can’t believe we have 3 more years of Noah at $6m. Question, could we reverse the stretch and had the full $18m count this year rather than spread out? If possible I wouldn’t have signed a couple free agents and bit the bullet. Not sure but any input would be appreciated.
RE: flexibility makes all the sense in the world...  
Enzo : 7/2/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14489333 Italianju said:
Quote:
when your building around a young team. You dont want to lock into long term deals for the Bogdanovic's or Barnes of the world. Good players, who will get overpaid. They make sense if your a team like UTA who is going for it. Once the knicks have a core then they can overpay for good pieces to help put them over the top.

As for the renting capspace, we dont know if that is a thing right now. We saw exactly one trade so far that was picks for capspace, ONE.

there's been 3 of them in the last few days. And they can happen in-season as well.
other then iggy...  
Italianju : 7/2/2019 9:48 am : link
what were the other ones?
Knicks  
Pete44 : 7/2/2019 9:49 am : link
If the Knicks were Orlando or a small market team that did not imply they were going to get big free agents and did not even end up getting a meeting, then you can look at this offseason and give it a B-. I'm still irritated they did not take a guy like Harkless and get a pick, that is a major miss in using cap space. Also, would have preferred Ed Davis to Taj Gibson.

On Randle, he has talent, but I think he will be a soft stats guy, where he can produce for a bad team.

The season is all about the development of Barrett/Knox/Robinson/DSJ, but I have a feeling they will try to get the 8th seed and we will see too much of Ellington/Bullock/Taj to get some wins as they will play defense.

NYGiants13 is correct they will be well positioned to get the next start the demands a trade, but with guys like Woj/Marks and others constantly downgrading the Knicks talent, it is never easy for them. I still remember before the draft, Woj calling it a 2 person draft and downplaying Barrett.

Dolan really kills the Knicks because of his persona as much as his meddling.
Im Good.  
blueblood : 7/2/2019 9:49 am : link
Ill just watch the young players develop. You have to build something first.
Nygiants 16, seriously?  
George from PA : 7/2/2019 9:50 am : link
Yes....it was.

A torned Achilles and LCL was only way to prevent the obvious outcome.
oh the harkless deal...  
Italianju : 7/2/2019 9:50 am : link
forgot that one.
RE: other then iggy...  
Enzo : 7/2/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14489353 Italianju said:
Quote:
what were the other ones?

Harkless and the Wizards trade. Wizards only got a #2 but they got cheap young players as opposed to bad contracts.
RE: flexibility makes all the sense in the world...  
TyreeHelmet : 7/2/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14489333 Italianju said:
Quote:
when your building around a young team. You dont want to lock into long term deals for the Bogdanovic's or Barnes of the world. Good players, who will get overpaid. They make sense if your a team like UTA who is going for it. Once the knicks have a core then they can overpay for good pieces to help put them over the top.

As for the renting capspace, we dont know if that is a thing right now. We saw exactly one trade so far that was picks for capspace, ONE. And since most big FA have signed i doubt we see more. Will there be in season opportunities, maybe, shoudl the knicks have saved like 10 mill in space, probably, but we dont know. Its like there were teams just throwing around first round picks and the knicks werent interested.


I understand your first point and it’s fair. But if I were the Knicks i would have targeted Randle, Reddick, Brogdon and Looney. Pay more for those guys on longer deals but getting better players. You can always trade a quality guy like that.

As for the picks, there was one at the draft and 2 in free agency that exchanged 1st round picks in salary dumps. And the last 2 were for expiring contracts- not the Wiggins/Wall deals. I have no idea why the Knicks weren’t in on this.
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