NFT: Knicks chat 7/2

The Knicks are proceeding into uncharted waters.
This is so unlike the Knicks.

They avoided the temptation to make a splash and they are attempting to grow organically.

I don't know if this team building will work, but, I do know that the old Knicks methodology failed miserably.

I am willing to give this process a chance.
There is something to look forward to. To see the development of these young players.
In two years this will be a success if the Knicks can have a competitive team and develop their own home grown talent.

If this occurs the Knicks will become a destination for future stars and the Knicks will have a core waiting for a super star.

And although it would have been great to sign KD, the history of free agency shows other than Lebron to the Lakers, superstars don’t go to non-playoff teams.

Perry did a good job maintaining cap flexibility; so they can have a max in 2020 or 2021. And they have six first round picks over the next four years.

This upcoming season is all about the development of RJ and Robinson, the two with the highest ceilings; turning Knox at least into a competent starter and getting DSJ learning to pass first and defend.

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have a very hard time being optimistic or exited about much after how the last 3 months have unfolded; no matter how hard I try (I mean seriously, a torn freaking achilles in game 6 of the NBA finals to Durant, you just can't make it up). Usually I can find the good points that at least get myself exited for the start of the season (even if the excitement peters out within a couple of weeks). You can try and sell yourself on the talented youth, but to me it just feels like a collection of flawed talent.

I really can't see DSJ being anything more than a role player; sure something may click but at the end of the day to me he is nothing more than a inferior Steve Francis clone. The lack of growth in his game in year two really has me down on him. Randle's statline was impressive at the end of the season except for in the one aspect that's hard to quantify; defense. He had by far his best defensive season of his career and he ranked something like 30th percentile in the league at PF in defensive metrics, up from like 5th percentile the year before. Could there be continued growth? Sure; but color me skeptical that any player gets better on defense when they put on the orange and blue. I'll give you Barrett and Robinson as reasons to be excited for the season, I do very much look forward to seeing them, but Knox has a lot to prove this year and by no means am I going to write him off yet but again years of seeing the Knicks "player development" again color me extremely skeptical until true growth is seen and another poor season and his value will be shot just like Frenchie irregardless of how young he is. Something could click for all of these guys as they are all still very young, but years of seeing young, talented but flawed players come through the Knicks and never progress basically kills the optimist in me at this point.

In comment 14489397 nygiants16 said:

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could he be the oldest guy in the summer league?

In comment 14489403 Enzo said:

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In comment 14489397 nygiants16 said: Quote: .. could he be the oldest guy in the summer league?

no there are some guys that play overseas that play summer league who are 27 28 years old

In comment 14489397 nygiants16 said:

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Where's the full roster? I mean we're 3 days out...

...torture yourselves?

People worrying about the Knicks competing for the playoffs and leaving themselves in no man's land are greatly exaggerating this team - particularly these free agents. We'll be scrappier and more competitive, but it's hard to imagine more than 25 wins, which is fine as long as RJ and Mitch play well. If Knox, DSJ or Randle step up, that's great, too. Fizdale's in for a rough year - fans aren't gonna have much patience for the style of play used last year. We need to play professional basketball.

In comment 14489411 M.S. said:

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...torture yourselves?

Hey, we may actually be really good in Summer League

In comment 14489413 bceagle05 said:

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People worrying about the Knicks competing for the playoffs and leaving themselves in no man's land are greatly exaggerating this team - particularly these free agents. We'll be scrappier and more competitive, but it's hard to imagine more than 25 wins, which is fine as long as RJ and Mitch play well. If Knox, DSJ or Randle step up, that's great, too. Fizdale's in for a rough year - fans aren't gonna have much patience for the style of play used last year. We need to play professional basketball.

I also think we will still be pretty bad. we have a little more shooting and defense but the PG depth chart is still a tire fire at this point. Three young guys with varying degrees of potential - but not a single adult in the room. Hard to win in today's NBA without competent guard play.

In comment 14489415 Anakim said:

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In comment 14489411 M.S. said: Quote: ...torture yourselves? Hey, we may actually be really good in Summer League

But not Nate Robinson, David Lee, Renaldo Balkman Summer League good. Their jerseys are in the rafters.

In comment 14489410 Anakim said:

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Where's the full roster? I mean we're 3 days out...

per HoopsHype - I can't vouch for its correctness:

New York Knicks (Vegas Summer League)
PLAYER POS HT AGE EXP LAST TEAM
Allonzo Trier SG 6-5 23 1 Knicks
Amir Hinton PG 6-5 22 0 Shaw (NCAA II)
Ignas BrazdeikisSF 6-6 20 0 Michigan
Kenny Wooten PF 6-9 21 0 Oregon
Kevin Knox SF 6-9 19 1 Knicks
Kris Wilkes SG 6-6 20 0 UCLA
Lamar Peters PG 6-0 21 0 Miss. St.
Markel Crawford SG 6-4 24 0 Memphis (G)
Mitchell RobinsonC 7-1 21 1 Knicks
RJ Barrett SG 6-7 19 0 Duke
Speedy Smith PG 6-3 26 0 Grand Rapids (G)
Tim Bond SF 6-6 23 0 Rio Grande (G)
Tyler Cavanaugh PF 6-9 25 2 Utah Jazz
VJ King SF 6-6 22 0 Louisville
Zak Irvin SG 6-6 24 0 Westchester (G)

Nate played summer league for like 4 years.

In comment 14489413 bceagle05 said:

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People worrying about the Knicks competing for the playoffs and leaving themselves in no man's land are greatly exaggerating this team - particularly these free agents. We'll be scrappier and more competitive, but it's hard to imagine more than 25 wins, which is fine as long as RJ and Mitch play well. If Knox, DSJ or Randle step up, that's great, too. Fizdale's in for a rough year - fans aren't gonna have much patience for the style of play used last year. We need to play professional basketball.

Playing professional basketball is why they signed these vets. They're there to compete with and show these kids how to be pros. The pressure on Fiz for me is to REQUIRE defense from the 6 kids under the age of 25 who will be in the rotation. Like everyone else, I don't think much of DSJ. He needs to get into making his teammates better as opposed to making highlight plays.

In comment 14489436 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 14489410 Anakim said: Quote: Where's the full roster? I mean we're 3 days out... per HoopsHype - I can't vouch for its correctness: New York Knicks (Vegas Summer League) PLAYER POS HT AGE EXP LAST TEAM Allonzo Trier SG 6-5 23 1 Knicks Amir Hinton PG 6-5 22 0 Shaw (NCAA II) Ignas BrazdeikisSF 6-6 20 0 Michigan Kenny Wooten PF 6-9 21 0 Oregon Kevin Knox SF 6-9 19 1 Knicks Kris Wilkes SG 6-6 20 0 UCLA Lamar Peters PG 6-0 21 0 Miss. St. Markel Crawford SG 6-4 24 0 Memphis (G) Mitchell RobinsonC 7-1 21 1 Knicks RJ Barrett SG 6-7 19 0 Duke Speedy Smith PG 6-3 26 0 Grand Rapids (G) Tim Bond SF 6-6 23 0 Rio Grande (G) Tyler Cavanaugh PF 6-9 25 2 Utah Jazz VJ King SF 6-6 22 0 Louisville Zak Irvin SG 6-6 24 0 Westchester (G)

No Loose Labia or Onion? Pfft

Kadeem Allen: Allen, at age 26, is the oldest player on the roster. He flashed at times with the Knicks on a two-way contract in 2018-19 and should be one of the summer league roster’s leading players.

Ignas Brazdeikis: This will be the first look at New York’s 2019 second-round pick. Brazdeikis played one season at Michigan.

RJ Barrett: The most anticipated player to see on this roster, Barrett will make his Knicks debut. All eyes are on him for the opening matchup.

Tyler Cavanaugh: This is a former two-way player with the Utah Jazz.

Markel Crawford: Crawford went undrafted in 2018 and spent last year in the G League.

Henry Ellenson: A former first-round pick, Ellenson joined the Knicks after the Detroit Pistons released him earlier this year. He will look to get his career on track with a standout performance in Vegas.

Amir Hinton: Hinton was Division II’s leading scorer. He went undrafted, but signed with the Knicks hours after the draft.

Zak Irvin: Irvin had stints with the Knicks’ G-League team.

VJ King: King never lived up to the hype at Louisville as a five-star recruit. Nonetheless, he left school early and will show if his skills translate to the NBA.
Kevin Knox: How much of a run Knox receives remains unknown, but this is his chance for a nice shooting night or two.

Lamar Peters: Peters went undrafted after three seasons at Mississippi State.

Allonzo Trier: Like Knox, Trier might not need the extensive run, but it gets him reps.

Mitchell Robinson: The same for Knox and Trier applies for Robinson. Maybe he tests a new part of his game.

Kenny Smith: Not the Kenny Smith that played in the ’90s and does studios work for TNT, but a former four-year man at Louisiana Tech.

Andrew White III: White has jumped around the G League since the 2017 NBA Draft.

Kenny Wooten: Wooten went undrafted in June, but is an intriguing shot-blocking talent.

FYI

Is Knicks cleared the books in anticipation of making a splash, and they failed at that.

BUT, they did not overreact and toss bad contracts around to handicap them. The goal is now to develop their youth I. Preparation of 2021. You could argue they could made better use if the space, like absorbing bad contracts to get more picks, as the clippers got a first rd pick out of the Heat. But the Knicks FO isn't that savvy

Not on the summer league roster?

In comment 14489436 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 14489410 Anakim said: Quote: Where's the full roster? I mean we're 3 days out... per HoopsHype - I can't vouch for its correctness: New York Knicks (Vegas Summer League) PLAYER POS HT AGE EXP LAST TEAM Allonzo Trier SG 6-5 23 1 Knicks Amir Hinton PG 6-5 22 0 Shaw (NCAA II) Ignas BrazdeikisSF 6-6 20 0 Michigan Kenny Wooten PF 6-9 21 0 Oregon Kevin Knox SF 6-9 19 1 Knicks Kris Wilkes SG 6-6 20 0 UCLA Lamar Peters PG 6-0 21 0 Miss. St. Markel Crawford SG 6-4 24 0 Memphis (G) Mitchell RobinsonC 7-1 21 1 Knicks RJ Barrett SG 6-7 19 0 Duke Speedy Smith PG 6-3 26 0 Grand Rapids (G) Tim Bond SF 6-6 23 0 Rio Grande (G) Tyler Cavanaugh PF 6-9 25 2 Utah Jazz VJ King SF 6-6 22 0 Louisville Zak Irvin SG 6-6 24 0 Westchester (G)

Other than the lock players on the roster I'm interested in King, Cavanaugh and Hinton

I wouldn't worry about competing for the 8th seed and being in no mans land. They will enter the year with one of the worst rosters in the league.

I found one book with the win totals but this could obviously change. Cavs and Hornets are the only teams below the Knicks at 23.5 wins. Knicks and Grizzlies are 26.5 wins and Wizards are 27.5.

Is this roster 10 wins better than last years team?

In comment 14489455 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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Not on the summer league roster?

Frank is skipping to play for France. Knox is on the roster.

I love his energy around the rim. If he makes the roster somehow, he could help light a defensive fire under some of the other guys.

In comment 14489458 TyreeHelmet said:

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I wouldn't worry about competing for the 8th seed and being in no mans land. They will enter the year with one of the worst rosters in the league. I found one book with the win totals but this could obviously change. Cavs and Hornets are the only teams below the Knicks at 23.5 wins. Knicks and Grizzlies are 26.5 wins and Wizards are 27.5. Is this roster 10 wins better than last years team?

They lost a lot of close games last season. They weren't the worst team or even second worst in terms of point differential. It's certainly possible.

but it's possible.

without Kemba that the Hornets will be atrocious next year.

The Knicks still will have a weak roster, but I can't see any way they end up worse than last season and they actually should have had 5-7 more wins if they were more consistent in the 4th quarter or didn't, ahem, tank....

randle is an all star, my homeristic prediction

In comment 14489463 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 14489458 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: I wouldn't worry about competing for the 8th seed and being in no mans land. They will enter the year with one of the worst rosters in the league. I found one book with the win totals but this could obviously change. Cavs and Hornets are the only teams below the Knicks at 23.5 wins. Knicks and Grizzlies are 26.5 wins and Wizards are 27.5. Is this roster 10 wins better than last years team? They lost a lot of close games last season. They weren't the worst team or even second worst in terms of point differential. It's certainly possible.

lol c'mon. They were 3rd at 9.2, Phoenix 9.4 and Cleveland 9.6. Factually, yes they weren't 1st or 2nd worst but you're talking about .2 points away from second worst and .4 from worst. They should be better but point differential doesn't really tell us that. The roster turnover likely does.

In comment 14489467 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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without Kemba that the Hornets will be atrocious next year. The Knicks still will have a weak roster, but I can't see any way they end up worse than last season and they actually should have had 5-7 more wins if they were more consistent in the 4th quarter or didn't, ahem, tank....

Pretty cool knowing we have their 2nd, sucks we don't have our own however. Wish we had both.

What's the point of that?

In comment 14489474 Greg from LI said:

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What's the point of that?

if they win 35 games 19 and 20 yesr old kids can not get better and win more gsmes the next year?

if they win 17 games again that means guys like knox, randle, robinson did not improve and barrett was not very good

In comment 14489476 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 14489474 Greg from LI said: Quote: What's the point of that? if they win 35 games 19 and 20 yesr old kids can not get better and win more gsmes the next year? if they win 17 games again that means guys like knox, randle, robinson did not improve and barrett was not very good

All due respect but I think "everyone" would sign for 35 wins if it's because Barrett, Mitch and Knox etc are really good. The concern (and more likely scenario) is winning 35 games because Randle "Kanter's" then to a few more wins, Payton is better than DSJ/Frank and Portis, Gibson etc are solid but not part of the future of this team. It comes down to "how".

where his team can space the floor better than his Duke team did as they were terrible from behind the arc. But unfortunately, this Knicks team doesn't have any sharpshooters and so I think it will hamper RJ's development.

and we all saw tanking does nothing..

Barrett, knox and mitchell will obviously be a big part of this team..

Looking good in Montana....
Phil - ( New Window )

In comment 14489491 nygiants16 said:

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and we all saw tanking does nothing.. Barrett, knox and mitchell will obviously be a big part of this team..

Randle is. None of the other FA's signed are likely to be.

In comment 14489471 DanMetroMan said:

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lol c'mon. They were 3rd at 9.2, Phoenix 9.4 and Cleveland 9.6. Factually, yes they weren't 1st or 2nd worst but you're talking about .2 points away from second worst and .4 from worst. They should be better but point differential doesn't really tell us that. The roster turnover likely does.

Going into the massive losing streak, there were 4 teams worse than them (PD) including 2 teams with more wins than them. If you don't think they lost quite a few close games for a very, very bad team, I would just assume you probably didn't watch any of the games.

willing to wager big money that Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Payton, Bullock and Reggie Bullock never play a game for a Knicks team that finishes over .500. If they play well hopefully it gives them trade value.

I was concerned about his long-term durability given his size and injury history, and I didn't like his attitude. But, that he wanted out of playing for the Knicks at the "Mecca" is a continued indictment of the organization.

Free agent stars don't want to come here, and homegrown stars don't want to stay here.

For all the hate he got around here, at least Carmelo made it absolutely clear that he wanted to come to NY and play for the Knicks. More than you can say about the rest of the league.

In comment 14489461 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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I love his energy around the rim. If he makes the roster somehow, he could help light a defensive fire under some of the other guys.

Intrigued by Wooten myself but he is in the boat of only being signed for summer league games. No commitment beyond that. So he is under the gun to show something.

Wilkes, Hinton and King are the signed UDFAs and Allen has another year on his two-way per link.
dailyknicks - ( New Window )

In comment 14489504 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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I was concerned about his long-term durability given his size and injury history, and I didn't like his attitude. But, that he wanted out of playing for the Knicks at the "Mecca" is a continued indictment of the organization. Free agent stars don't want to come here, and homegrown stars don't want to stay here. For all the hate he got around here, at least Carmelo made it absolutely clear that he wanted to come to NY and play for the Knicks. More than you can say about the rest of the league.

kp wanting out was more about his brother..

In comment 14489470 nygiants16 said:

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randle is an all star, my homeristic prediction

This is a 20-25 win team

In comment 14489497 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 14489471 DanMetroMan said: Quote: lol c'mon. They were 3rd at 9.2, Phoenix 9.4 and Cleveland 9.6. Factually, yes they weren't 1st or 2nd worst but you're talking about .2 points away from second worst and .4 from worst. They should be better but point differential doesn't really tell us that. The roster turnover likely does. Going into the massive losing streak, there were 4 teams worse than them (PD) including 2 teams with more wins than them. If you don't think they lost quite a few close games for a very, very bad team, I would just assume you probably didn't watch any of the games.

\
Very confused. These other bad teams don't go through similar stretches and issues? It's what makes them bad. Kevin Love missed 60 games. The Knicks were not expected to be THAT bad.

BR before the year

"Projected Record: 28-54"... they won 17 games.

the point is that the supposed storied franchise with the crown jewel of arenas and location couldn't keep the homegrown "star" (or at least highly' popular player). It's a continued black mark on this franchise.

In comment 14489502 DanMetroMan said:

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willing to wager big money that Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Payton, Bullock and Reggie Bullock never play a game for a Knicks team that finishes over .500. If they play well hopefully it gives them trade value.

You wouldn’t lose that bet, lol

Knicks should be better but they DID lose arguably the #1 player who contributed to the most wins (Kanter), he or Mitch. Arguably their 3rd best 2019 player is gone as well (Vonleh). Who knows with young players but this looks like a 25 win roster to me.

don't personally like Frank as a player and hated the pick but I get the feeling the Knicks gave up on him almost immediately, weird usage, weird comments, "studs" like Mudiay, Burke, DSJ and finally Allen all seemed to be higher on Fiz's "like" list and now they add Payton AND are looking at other PG's. Talk about a disaster pick.

In comment 14489523 DanMetroMan said:

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don't personally like Frank as a player and hated the pick but I get the feeling the Knicks gave up on him almost immediately, weird usage, weird comments, "studs" like Mudiay, Burke, DSJ and finally Allen all seemed to be higher on Fiz's "like" list and now they add Payton AND are looking at other PG's. Talk about a disaster pick.

But he can run the triangle offense, ll

In comment 14489517 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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the point is that the supposed storied franchise with the crown jewel of arenas and location couldn't keep the homegrown "star" (or at least highly' popular player). It's a continued black mark on this franchise.

the brother was the reason, thatbis the point take his brither out kp is still here