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BBI conundrum...

Dan in the Springs : 7/2/2019 9:29 am
Many on BBI say the OL will be better because Zeitler is a major upgrade and that the center will be better by playing next to him.

How do we know that Zeitler won't be worse because of who he is playing next to? In CLE, KZ was playing next to JC Tretter, a top ranked center.

So, was KZ so good because he's good, and Tretter benefitted, or was Tretter so good that he helped KZ?

Probably a bit of both, but if that's the case, will KZ's play go backwards playing next to Pio/Pulley, or will their play be elevated and his continue to be as strong?

The guy’s one of the best in the league.  
Big Blue '56 : 7/2/2019 9:38 am : link
I don’t see his skillset being negatively affected by who he plays next to.
Dan  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2019 9:41 am : link
He was a heck of a guard in Cincinnati too.
I think we are well set at guard  
George from PA : 7/2/2019 9:43 am : link
Center is questionable

Tackles stabized but could use further upgrade
what Eric said  
giants#1 : 7/2/2019 9:44 am : link
he was a big FA signing by CLE because he was already a top 5 OG.

But this is also why they say that an OL is the sum of its parts. An average group with great communication can look top notch and a group with a couple stars can quickly be brought down by a weak link.
Tretter??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/2/2019 9:45 am : link
Maybe Tretter was good by playing next to Zeitler? Tretter was in Cleveland only last year and it was by far his best season and the only one he ever played in ts entirety.

Meanwhile, Zeitler is going into his 7th season, only missing one start.

And he wasn't playing next to Tretter in Cincy.

This seems like creating a conundrum out of boredom
RE: Dan  
Klaatu : 7/2/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14489335 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He was a heck of a guard in Cincinnati too.


And if you buy what PFF is selling, he played next to a couple of lousy Centers there. I think he'll be fine here.
Tretter  
Mike in NY : 7/2/2019 9:52 am : link
Was nothing special prior to playing with Zeitler. The one thing that will be key for the Giants is the OL staying healthy. It can't be overlooked, but a lot of blocking assignments is recognizing who your teammates will be blocking so that you don't go after the same player leaving a free rusher. When you are constantly shifting OL due to injuries and/or inefficiency that chemistry is lost.
Zeitler for OV  
superspynyg : 7/2/2019 9:52 am : link
was a straight steal by DG!!
Zeitler and Remmers are a huge upgrade  
BillT : 7/2/2019 9:58 am : link
How this is even a question is beyond understanding. I mean we’re talking about comparing them to guys like Flowers and Omaneh. Come on folks.
.  
Gman11 : 7/2/2019 10:08 am : link
...  
christian : 7/2/2019 10:20 am : link
One point of interest for me is how much better is Zeitler than Jamon Brown as a run blocker and how big of a "jump" will the Giants make.

I know he's a great pass blocker, does anyone know how he's rated in the run game?

If you look at the rushing numbers the Giants were night and day better when Brown came on board. I'm not saying it was all him, but when he came along it got much better.

Barkley ended up with gaudy numbers but at mid-season the Giants were an atrocious run team. They had failed to reach 65 yards on the ground in 5/8 games.

Pre-Brown the Giants were averaging 78 yards a game on the ground and post-Brown 128.
Hernandez  
Jay in Toronto : 7/2/2019 10:26 am : link
has said that Zeitler has already made a huge contribution by teaching/mentoring the young guards.

I'm sure he is passing on what he learned as a Badger ;)
the fact that we may be actually able to block stunts  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 7/2/2019 10:27 am : link
is in itself a huge upgrade. Last year (particularly the beginning) was just an interior jailbreak at every opportunity. It mainly was an issue between the RT and RG. There also was never a pocket to step up into which effected the LT since he seems to like to take a speed rusher back behind the QB. The QB was having to constantly retreat into that space instead of being able to step up into the pocket.
RE: ...  
Klaatu : 7/2/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14489418 christian said:
Quote:
One point of interest for me is how much better is Zeitler than Jamon Brown as a run blocker and how big of a "jump" will the Giants make.

I know he's a great pass blocker, does anyone know how he's rated in the run game?


This is from PFF:

The NFL's best offensive guard tandems ahead of the 2019 NFL season

Zeitler's ranked 1st in pass-blocking, 10th in run-blocking, 4th overall.
Zeitler is a huge upgrade, but I am in wait-and-see mode..  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/2/2019 11:17 am : link
...regarding the line as a whole.

I am not sold on Halapio (sp?) at center.

Add that Remmers and Solder are coming off injury/surgery and I think it's a big question mark.

I am not pessimistic like last year, but am not confident either.
These guys are going to be a strength  
Rong5611 : 7/2/2019 11:32 am : link
The OL overall should be much better.
Dan  
ZogZerg : 7/2/2019 12:12 pm : link
He passes the eye test with flying colors.
Stop being so negative!
Man this Oline sucked  
mrvax : 7/2/2019 12:15 pm : link
when hit with stunts. Cowboys were in the backfield every snap or so it seemed. Stopping that jail break would do wonders for any QB and RB on the team.

I have to believe they will be much improved. Some problems at first should be expected.
Doesn't even..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/2/2019 12:16 pm : link
have to be less negative.

Just needs to not use a terrible example like Tretter. Tretter was pedestrian in GB. Goes to Cleveland and plays well. Zeitler was very good in Cincy. Goes to Cleveland and plays well.

If one person helped the other, it is likely Zeitler helping Tretter. The OP reads as if Zeitler finally played decently and it may have been because of the supporting cast.
Eh, perhaps it is negative...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/2/2019 12:25 pm : link
I'm suggesting in probably a not-very-elegant way that if Pio/Pulley are not as good as Tretter, perhaps 2019 Zeitler will not be as good as 2018 Zeitler was. That if, at the end of the season, we are in some way disappointed with KZ, we might hear later that it's because he was handicapped playing next to Pio/Pulley.

Mostly FMiC was right early on - bored and stirring up discussion, hoping to hear thoughts on the impact of playing next to someone who was as effective as Tretter last year.

Tretter isn't garbage, in the link they said it was his fourth straight year with a passing grade above 80 (that's a pretty high grade).
Zeitler is a stud  
Rjanyg : 7/2/2019 1:42 pm : link
These are the best guards combo we have had since Suebert and Snee.
Zeitler is a major upgrade, don't have concern about "Tretter" effect  
MM_in_NYC : 7/2/2019 2:06 pm : link
The bigger question to me will be if Eli gets more comfortable in the pocket with the extra time he should have this year, or if he can't reverse the damage done by having such a crap line the past several years and still feels phantom rushers.

Halapio could be expected to improve ..  
Bluesbreaker : 7/2/2019 5:39 pm : link
The arrow was pointing up when he was injured has had
plenty of time to heal ad work on his strength .
I think the line once it jels will be a much better line
and we won't see as much of Barkley getting hit before he takes two steps and Eli will be better protected as well .
I think it's realistic to be skeptical  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/2/2019 5:51 pm : link
whoever comes out of camp as the starting center is certainly going to have to prove he can hold his own.

I'm optimistic for this o-line, but they need to prove it.
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