I could see conserving her a little and using her as a sub in the 60th minute if we're tied or down a goal.
But that's a complete guess.
I havent seen a reason yet and the TVs at work dont have the sound on. all i know is Cristin Press is replacing her... I think we will be fine. Press is a hell of a player.
cross from Heath and header from Press but bad defense from England. They left Press unmarked at the far post. The goalie also should have more quickly anticipated that the header would come to the near post.
A little more clinical and we'd be out of sight but they've taken the attack to England well. This is a scary opponent though, one chance and they could be level
How is it a bad call. They use hawkeye to determine offside just like they do for goal line technology. I think that it wasn't an obvious error by the linesman though, because it was close
when Cameroon got a goal back in the round of 16. Now I think the clear and obvious error standard should be used but by the current interpretation, offside is offside, even by 1 mm
maybe she had a toe ahead of the last defender, but maybe not. Either way that should be a goal. I especially hate that it was made via VAR and not live.
Soccer needs to reform that kind of BS call where a tiny part of the player is maybe offsides.
like the USA are back on their heels. Not sure if its fatigue or frustration of a tough opponent. They need to be patient and work the ball instead of the homerun. They need to regroup.
You have to draw the line for offside somewhere - whether it's a toe, a half step, etc. Any bit ahead, it's offside.
IMO a call like that may be technically correct but it goes against the spirit of the offisides rule. White did not grab an advantage by being a hair beyond the last defender as opposed to be precisely even with them or a hair behind. The original purpose of the rule was to prevent players from hanging back in an opponents end without the ball, the current rule simply ruins beautiful play and goals, which soccer needs more of not less.
that I sometimes would like to see the offsides not called on very close ones, it's hard to argue there isn't an advantage gained...it only takes a tiny bit of separation sometimes
job. Guts to issue the 2nd yellow and then the red. She took no crap. Guts to reverse the non-call and give the PK. (VAR also)
England played great.
Thought the US was a little selfish and should have had 2 goals had Press made a pass to one of two open players and thought Lloyd could have made a pass when she came from the GK's right.
The survived. Think England was the highest rated team left.
got a big chuckle, after Naeher made the save on the PS Â
play is live, it continues, she with the ball in her arms, bear hugs from at least two teammates, I was waiting for a deliberate handling in the PA and another PS (just kidding, sort of, but you don't see that!)
That was a wrong call that led to England's penalty kick... Â
where it was clear there was no contact. You could see a space between the defender and the leg.
In the angle from directly behind the play it was 100% clear that there was contact with White's leg as she wound up to shoot, which was why she miffed so badly. It was a correct call.
I never played soccer, but it seemed to me that they were quite skilled in developing quick counter attacks. Their two goal were beauties. Glad there was the offsides on the last one.
where it was clear there was no contact. You could see a space between the defender and the leg.
In the angle from directly behind the play it was 100% clear that there was contact with White's leg as she wound up to shoot, which was why she miffed so badly. It was a correct call.
No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
agree...when the harsh glare of white heat is squarely on you, it takes guts to call what you've seen and to acknowledge what you haven't, and defy the temptation to give in to 'superior force' of players and/or crowd and personalities who believe differently...
cmon.. it's a judgement call by the ref. I didn't see contact but you can infer contact by the change of position of her leg. It was bad defense, anyway. And when you have someone falling to the ground on the ball and a kick with possible contact from behind.... you've seen that call before..
No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
Penalties are supposed to be clear and obvious though...if it takes that long to find a scrape of a boot on a leg (which isn't even readily apparent) it's not a penalty. It wasn't the kind of contact that could take a player down either, which also has to be taken into account. Poor application of VAR
did you see the replay from directly behind the play? I agree the other replays made it look like not contact, but that replay 1000000% showed contact on the backswing.
wrong, her right leg was 'tripped' from behind; the contact was inadvertent, but it doesn't matter, it was there in White's natural running motion, Sauerbrun's knee clipped the calf
yellow is called for because PS awarded (negates red)
You can't decide a World Cup on something that nebulous Â
I get the offside rule in that it's concrete and they have to stick with the interpretation that any part of the body that can legally score a goal has to be onside...
But on penalties, it better be a clear and obvious penalty and that wasn't one, it was a judgment call
wrong, her right leg was 'tripped' from behind; the contact was inadvertent, but it doesn't matter, it was there in White's natural running motion, Sauerbrun's knee clipped the calf
yellow is called for because PS awarded (negates red)
If it's inadvertent (legs clipping each other) it's not a penalty. There has to be intent to take a player down
No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
Penalties are supposed to be clear and obvious though...if it takes that long to find a scrape of a boot on a leg (which isn't even readily apparent) it's not a penalty. It wasn't the kind of contact that could take a player down either, which also has to be taken into account. Poor application of VAR
It was a clear trip. It wasn't incidental contact, nor was intentional. But the right leg was without question interfered with causing White to miss the kick and fall. The ref missed the original, but VAR saw it.
I get the offside rule in that it's concrete and they have to stick with the interpretation that any part of the body that can legally score a goal has to be onside...
But on penalties, it better be a clear and obvious penalty and that wasn't one, it was a judgment call
if it's a scrape it is a penalty.. that's the point.. you're interfering with a clear scoring chance. She looked it over and decided it was a pen.
Stop digging yourself in deeper. Inadvertent fouls are called all game long, every game. It is intentional and/or reckless fouls that warrant cards--that's why they are issued.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
RE: I'm looking at this from a premier league view Â
No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
Penalties are supposed to be clear and obvious though...if it takes that long to find a scrape of a boot on a leg (which isn't even readily apparent) it's not a penalty. It wasn't the kind of contact that could take a player down either, which also has to be taken into account. Poor application of VAR
It was a clear trip. It wasn't incidental contact, nor was intentional. But the right leg was without question interfered with causing White to miss the kick and fall. The ref missed the original, but VAR saw it.
Stop digging yourself in deeper. Inadvertent fouls are called all game long, every game. It is intentional and/or reckless fouls that warrant cards--that's why they are issued.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
I'm just saying if you apply the laws of the game like that to the premier league, guys like Salah, Sterling etc. are way better than the women's strikers and will go down at the first moment they're clipped in the box, and the game will turn into a farce
Stop digging yourself in deeper. Inadvertent fouls are called all game long, every game. It is intentional and/or reckless fouls that warrant cards--that's why they are issued.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
I'm just saying if you apply the laws of the game like that to the premier league, guys like Salah, Sterling etc. are way better than the women's strikers and will go down at the first moment they're clipped in the box, and the game will turn into a farce
Please stop. It was a foul. If that was Morgan or Press you would have wanted it.
RE: RE: RE: Now you are importing 'intent' into fouls in football????? Â
Stop digging yourself in deeper. Inadvertent fouls are called all game long, every game. It is intentional and/or reckless fouls that warrant cards--that's why they are issued.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
I'm just saying if you apply the laws of the game like that to the premier league, guys like Salah, Sterling etc. are way better than the women's strikers and will go down at the first moment they're clipped in the box, and the game will turn into a farce
Please stop. It was a foul. If that was Morgan or Press you would have wanted it.
No I would have been like, that's a dive
Is the final to be played at 11am local time in France? Â
Her knee hit the back of White's leg making her whiff. I thought it was a dive at first, but go back and watch it. Link - ( New Window )
There is no contact with the legs until after she whiffs on the kick. Look at the replay from the goal, it's plain as day
I don't know what you are looking at. The :52 sec mark her knee clearly hits White's calf causing her to whiff. That's what I see at least. To each their own.
Her knee hit the back of White's leg making her whiff. I thought it was a dive at first, but go back and watch it. Link - ( New Window )
There is no contact with the legs until after she whiffs on the kick. Look at the replay from the goal, it's plain as day
I don't know what you are looking at. The :52 sec mark her knee clearly hits White's calf causing her to whiff. That's what I see at least. To each their own.
.52 is a shitty angle, go to .59 and it's plain as day that her knee does not make contact prior to her missing the ball
Some posters here are either blind or delusional.... Â
Even if one sees contact, the motion she went to the ground with was exaggerated and showed her top part of her body contorting.
That's exactly the type of play that was meant to draw a simulation call.
If that had happened to Morgan, I'd say the same thing, but luckily for us, the men and women don't flop. Which bizarrely comes to a detriment to them.
we usually see eye to eye; on this one we don't, and I fully credit that 'if you know soccer' includes you, unlike some.
I think I understand what you are saying, and White may well have embellished her 'dive' after the contact (as Morgan did multiple times, albeit legit fouls). But the key here was Sauerbrun's clip of White's calf as she (White) lagged it in preparation for the touch, and the clip was a clear factor in connection with the whiff. Because White is one smart ass football player, she then figured she better well sell it (to your point), but the damage had already been done. It *may* well be that her 'dive' triggered the review, which saw the clip.
Several observations:
It was a foul on the penalty kick. Very clear that Sauerbraun knee clipped White’s leg before she made contact with ball.
Do not like the back 5 that Ellis employs to defends lead late in the game.It invites unneeded pressure. Play your game.
Rose LaValle played a great game. Important to USWNT that her injury is not serious and that she can play in final. More so than Rapinoe in my opinion.
2 center backs were exposed big time by Ellen White. They need to clean that up for final.
I like the physical play of Lindsey Horan.
Where is Julie Ertz?
Dunn growing into her role in the back on defense. Major improvement in her game since WC began.
RE: Some posters here are either blind or delusional.... Â
we usually see eye to eye; on this one we don't, and I fully credit that 'if you know soccer' includes you, unlike some.
I think I understand what you are saying, and White may well have embellished her 'dive' after the contact (as Morgan did multiple times, albeit legit fouls). But the key here was Sauerbrun's clip of White's calf as she (White) lagged it in preparation for the touch, and the clip was a clear factor in connection with the whiff. Because White is one smart ass football player, she then figured she better well sell it (to your point), but the damage had already been done. It *may* well be that her 'dive' triggered the review, which saw the clip.
dunno what montana was seeing.
Go to.59 secs of that link and tell me where her knee hits her prior to her missing the ball
we usually see eye to eye; on this one we don't, and I fully credit that 'if you know soccer' includes you, unlike some.
I think I understand what you are saying, and White may well have embellished her 'dive' after the contact (as Morgan did multiple times, albeit legit fouls). But the key here was Sauerbrun's clip of White's calf as she (White) lagged it in preparation for the touch, and the clip was a clear factor in connection with the whiff. Because White is one smart ass football player, she then figured she better well sell it (to your point), but the damage had already been done. It *may* well be that her 'dive' triggered the review, which saw the clip.
dunno what montana was seeing.
Go to.59 secs of that link and tell me where her knee hits her prior to her missing the ball
Actually, it's at 57 secs. complete whiff of the ball then the knee comes forward and barely touches her which also gets pointed out by the analyst on the broadcast
has already passed, since the attacker is entitled to try and make a further move, which is I think what was happening. It looks to me like the attacker knew she didn't have a shot from that angle and was trying some kind of step-over when she got clipped (and yes she made a meal of it). I don't think it was a "whiff."
Just my $.02 - doesn't matter now, as this was truly a "ball don't lie" situation. Wasn't much of a penalty and it wasn't much of a penalty kick. The newspapers in England are having a field day with it , not surprising if you know the history of the English mens team in World Cup penalty kick situations.
has already passed, since the attacker is entitled to try and make a further move, which is I think what was happening. It looks to me like the attacker knew she didn't have a shot from that angle and was trying some kind of step-over when she got clipped (and yes she made a meal of it). I don't think it was a "whiff."
Just my $.02 - doesn't matter now, as this was truly a "ball don't lie" situation. Wasn't much of a penalty and it wasn't much of a penalty kick. The newspapers in England are having a field day with it , not surprising if you know the history of the English mens team in World Cup penalty kick situations.
I agree with you and I'd also add the US defender acknowledged after the match there was contact but she felt it was a goal scoring play and had to try and make a play. She didn't seem to have a problem with the penalty being called because she knew she made contact.
montana, at 57 sec White's calf had already been clipped by Sauerbrun's knee causing the whiff, any contact after White's leg began to swing through her strike attempt, if any, was not relevant to the award of the penalty
Rick,
mostly agree; not only going to the 5 in the back, but so early! At like 72 minutes if I recall the time. It's like Ellis is so protective of her team's psyche that she doesn't want them to possess in the middle and attacking thirds, it's a lack of belief and confidence.
Had the exact same thought re. Ertz, just a non-factor, and she had two good looks, did well to create space for herself, but her technique in the strike was off both times, ball sailed
I think Lavelle had difficulty in her decision making in and around the PA; she's very good getting there, maybe too much pace, if that's possible (see next) but today and vs France she came up empty, part of it was, as vs Spain, her teammates doing her no favors, no runs, as I recall maybe late to position. I re-watched France, Rapinoe was outstanding in all facets, she disrupted possession, she laid off to Morgan, it was her pass that set up the sequence on which Dunn was offside before he delivery to Heath. That doesn't mean she won all her runs down the flank, she didn't, but France had to account for her all game, and didn't
Dunn has grown: her athleticism is over the top, but she is still prone to bite at fakes and make the careless clear or pass to opponent. There was one stretch where every player was sending the ball to the opponent, about 12 minutes in to H2
Like Horan too, she is solid; she may well start vs tomorrow's winner with Lavelle and Pinoe ??. O'Hara continues to be solid on the right side, she is all heart, gung ho, intense, love her demeanor.
It was obvious to me Heath had to come out; I mentioned the weight loss, I think the tournament has drained her. How much does she have left? Same can be asked of all those still to play.
I didn't see the contact, so on that we'll differ, but the rest of my commentary is something I just think is a major impediment to the game, especially in attracting the fringe fans that watch World Cups or International competitions.
There is too much flopping in the game and it is rewarded. Get brushed in the face, and players drop like they've been cut with a machete. Is it technically a foul? Yes. Is it still a flop? Yep.
We know that it isn't just a women thing - it is much more pervasive in the men's game, but the issue I have is that cards for simulation are rarely shown, while game-altering or deciding penalties are often given. With goals in such short supply, embellishment and trickery should not be at play.
I didn't think the US should have been awarded a penalty against Spain. It wasn't a flop or embellishment - but the contact was so minimal and didn't have a tangible impact that it shouldn't be called. Even if I concede that the english player was contacted today, her ridiculous embellishment should negate any award of a penalty shot.
Now, I fully realize the rules are the rules, but when it comes to flopping, FIFA continually threatens to crack down on it (because they know it is a huge issue), but they never truly do. And then when you see a Robben, Neymar, Suarez or that english player today flail their head and torso back unnaturally while going to the turf and it gets accepted as legit - there is a problem.
I don't think I've watched one soccer play over and over so much Â
in a while. Final verdict: there was contact before the ball arrived at the English player but minor contact and what she was going to with that ball (shoot or cross) was not clear, and the English player made a meal of the minor contact.
That the penalty kick was missed - is soccer justice.
montana, at 57 sec White's calf had already been clipped by Sauerbrun's knee causing the whiff, any contact after White's leg began to swing through her strike attempt, if any, was not relevant to the award of the penalty
Rick,
mostly agree; not only going to the 5 in the back, but so early! At like 72 minutes if I recall the time. It's like Ellis is so protective of her team's psyche that she doesn't want them to possess in the middle and attacking thirds, it's a lack of belief and confidence.
Had the exact same thought re. Ertz, just a non-factor, and she had two good looks, did well to create space for herself, but her technique in the strike was off both times, ball sailed
I think Lavelle had difficulty in her decision making in and around the PA; she's very good getting there, maybe too much pace, if that's possible (see next) but today and vs France she came up empty, part of it was, as vs Spain, her teammates doing her no favors, no runs, as I recall maybe late to position. I re-watched France, Rapinoe was outstanding in all facets, she disrupted possession, she laid off to Morgan, it was her pass that set up the sequence on which Dunn was offside before he delivery to Heath. That doesn't mean she won all her runs down the flank, she didn't, but France had to account for her all game, and didn't
Dunn has grown: her athleticism is over the top, but she is still prone to bite at fakes and make the careless clear or pass to opponent. There was one stretch where every player was sending the ball to the opponent, about 12 minutes in to H2
Like Horan too, she is solid; she may well start vs tomorrow's winner with Lavelle and Pinoe ??. O'Hara continues to be solid on the right side, she is all heart, gung ho, intense, love her demeanor.
It was obvious to me Heath had to come out; I mentioned the weight loss, I think the tournament has drained her. How much does she have left? Same can be asked of all those still to play.
No, it wasn't. Back it up to 55 or 54 secs and she's not close to touching her.
The contact (if there was any) occurs after White whiffed on the ball. And even then it's extremely slight. That pic I posted above is the closes her knee gets to White and that is after the ball went past White
You can clearly see air between the two players legs.
And I'll just reiterate the other point I've been making. If the standard for contact is that minimal to award a try at goal - something's wrong. And when a player obviously embellishes without punishment - something's wrong.
RE: It would be nice if we weren't so damn arrogant Â
the circles of women's soccer, the US isn't hated. They are actually applauded and revered.
Most fringe fans might not realize this, but the reason the rest of the world is improving in the game is because of the inroads the US team has made and the spotlight they've put on the disparity between them and men's teams.
Soccer has always been there on the World's stage for men. Women didn't have a World Cup until 1991. Since that time, the US had led the drive for more equal treatment. Most of the players have friends and teammates on the opponents they play. A celebration drinking tea is a friendly jab, not some arrogant showing.
some of you, but the reason the rest of the world hates us isn’t because Alex Morgan pretended to drink tea.
As someone above said, mocking the losers on a worldwide stage like this looks terrible, and a 30-yr-old has no excuse. And especially when the losing team is our close friend and ally.
I get it from a very young person on the world stage for the first time, but this is a veteran international player who's 30 years old...
I don't blame her, the British press had been basically talking shit about them from the start of the tourney and it culminated with them claiming that they were arrogant prior to yesterdays game
some of you, but the reason the rest of the world hates us isn’t because Alex Morgan pretended to drink tea.
As someone above said, mocking the losers on a worldwide stage like this looks terrible, and a 30-yr-old has no excuse. And especially when the losing team is our close friend and ally.
Par for the course, I'm afraid.
We should be more like England and start bitching about how the USA was trying to spy on them by looking for hotels to stay in. Now thats classy!
This women's team is everything the men aren't. With the exception of a poor decision by Ellis to go to 5 at the back too early, they are a team that doesn't just win, but does so with a ruthlessness that is a joy to watch. They are tremendously skilled and rip hearts out of chests and I'm all for it.
I get that some of the criticism they get has been earned by them being outspoken. There are two sides to that conversation. But think about just this tournament itself. First, they were criticized for badly beating a team in the World Cup, as if the match were some sort of Girl Scout meeting where everyone gets a patch. Then they were called underdogs to the French, and when they beat them and rightly celebrated, they were called arrogant and overrated by the British press and accused of cheating by the English coach! So yeah, Alex Morgan pretended to drink some tea. Good for her.
I suppose what's great about all of this is that there are huge arguments and discussions about this match in ways that I've never seen. In many ways, we might look back at this as a watershed moment for the women's game, which is quite awesome to watch at this level.
Is anyone disparaging Uruguay when Suarez takes a bite out of somebody? When Christiano Ronaldo preens like a peacock are people calling Portugal arrogant? When Neymar flops like a pussy every chance he can, do people question the tactics/gamesmanship of Brazil?
Comments about ugliness is a manufactured storyline.
Thanks, montana: the problem is that the sequence at 57 - 59 seconds doesn't capture the contact, which occurred split seconds before, when White was drawing her right leg back to swing through her touch.
On the Fox replay (and thanks) at ~48 seconds captures Sauerbrun's clipping White's calf, but the angle is not as clear.
Now on to FMiC's post last night, which I just saw.
This women's team is everything the men aren't. With the exception of a poor decision by Ellis to go to 5 at the back too early, they are a team that doesn't just win, but does so with a ruthlessness that is a joy to watch. They are tremendously skilled and rip hearts out of chests and I'm all for it.
I get that some of the criticism they get has been earned by them being outspoken. There are two sides to that conversation. But think about just this tournament itself. First, they were criticized for badly beating a team in the World Cup, as if the match were some sort of Girl Scout meeting where everyone gets a patch. Then they were called underdogs to the French, and when they beat them and rightly celebrated, they were called arrogant and overrated by the time.
Yeh it's the "World Cup" but there are teams involved that shouldn't even be there. The fact of the matter is women's soccer just isn't that big anywhere else in the world. Go ask Marta and the Brazilians about the lack of respect they get from their federation. Thailand has no business even making a World Cup but they are there because they wanted to expand the team pool. And underdogs to the French? They were favorites.
I didn't see the contact, so on that we'll differ, but the rest of my commentary is something I just think is a major impediment to the game, especially in attracting the fringe fans that watch World Cups or International competitions.
I get what you are saying, and at its core, I agree with you. One aspect implicit in your comments, the higher the profile, the more extreme the simulation: the men you mention and this WC I would add Morgan.
In a player's world--and also from the point of view of the refs, who once they see a team target the other team's best or key player for physical abuse--the target refuses to be a passive victim and wants to ensure the ref as taken notice of the contact. Thus Morgan in this WC, a target in every match since Group play ended. I don't like her embellishment, but she is is seeking to mitigate offenses, and potential injury, against her by ripping off efforts by defenders to disguise or minimize their contact, intentionally 'careless' or reckless.
A big part of the problem is recent emphasis on penalizing contact with the face or neck in a legit attempt to protect players. A lot of it occurs in 50/50 balls as one player seeks to free himself, lunges with the body to turn/shield, and hands fly out behind her. Then the inevitable dervish reaction after contact is made.
I agree 100% that caution for unsporting play--simulation--needs to be enforced, and it is not. Big issue that FIFA doesn't seem to want to take head on.
In the case in question, White-Sauerbrun, I am pretty confident that the contact impeded/affected White's ability to swing through her touching/striking motion and was a factor in her whiff. Players on the move hard, as they try to properly touch, weight, or direct the ball can be thrown off by slight contact, and here I think it was more than that.
I have to go back to match vs Spain but my recollection is I had the same reaction as you. Calls in the box are challenging. Period. Just as is when a keeper slides out in the PA to grab a ball rolling/bouncing free and makes contact with an onrushing opponent.
This women's team is everything the men aren't. With the exception of a poor decision by Ellis to go to 5 at the back too early, they are a team that doesn't just win, but does so with a ruthlessness that is a joy to watch. They are tremendously skilled and rip hearts out of chests and I'm all for it.
I get that some of the criticism they get has been earned by them being outspoken. There are two sides to that conversation. But think about just this tournament itself. First, they were criticized for badly beating a team in the World Cup, as if the match were some sort of Girl Scout meeting where everyone gets a patch. Then they were called underdogs to the French, and when they beat them and rightly celebrated, they were called arrogant and overrated by the time.
Yeh it's the "World Cup" but there are teams involved that shouldn't even be there. The fact of the matter is women's soccer just isn't that big anywhere else in the world. Go ask Marta and the Brazilians about the lack of respect they get from their federation. Thailand has no business even making a World Cup but they are there because they wanted to expand the team pool. And underdogs to the French? They were favorites.
So what exactly is your point? Is it that the US should apologize for beating Thailand? Is it that we should use Brazilian standards for judging American women? Is it that Thailand should have declined their invitation? Should we ignore that France had beaten the United States 2 out of the previous three simply because Vegas got it right?
I'd love to know what, exactly, is the point you're trying to make? Or are you simply trying to tear down my post because it strokes your ego? Any clue would be appreciated.
Thanks, montana: the problem is that the sequence at 57 - 59 seconds doesn't capture the contact, which occurred split seconds before, when White was drawing her right leg back to swing through her touch.
On the Fox replay (and thanks) at ~48 seconds captures Sauerbrun's clipping White's calf, but the angle is not as clear.
Now on to FMiC's post last night, which I just saw.
I don't see it
That almost is physically impossible. How could she clip her with her left knee when she did not bring it forward until the .57 sec mark and it's still a good 5" from her leg?
Her knee mimics Whites attempt, they are in tandem. In other words, her left leg is back while White is winding up and then her knee comes forward after white misses while coming forward
Her knee mimics Whites attempt, they are in tandem. In other words, her left leg is back while White is winding up and then her knee comes forward after white misses while coming forward
I don't have it in front of me just now, but is it not possible that it is Sauerbrun's right knee that clips White's right calf as she is beginning to swing it forward?
I agree that at seconds 57-59 there is space between their limbs, but that comes after the contact.
But that's a complete guess.
But that's a complete guess.
I havent seen a reason yet and the TVs at work dont have the sound on. all i know is Cristin Press is replacing her... I think we will be fine. Press is a hell of a player.
could be part of the reason
could be part of the reason
ah - if that's the case, would make sense.
Press is very fast with or without the ball. Her issue has always been seeming to have nerves on the big stage
If you have cable you can get a feed from foxsports.com.
Morgan sipping the tea - ( New Window )
Agree, they need to slow up the counter unless its there. England midfield is too good to keep giving up the ball.
TIA
you're wrong.
How is it a bad call. They use hawkeye to determine offside just like they do for goal line technology. I think that it wasn't an obvious error by the linesman though, because it was close
Soccer needs to reform that kind of BS call where a tiny part of the player is maybe offsides.
no luck
foxsports.com, but you need to have cable service in your name to login.
IMO a call like that may be technically correct but it goes against the spirit of the offisides rule. White did not grab an advantage by being a hair beyond the last defender as opposed to be precisely even with them or a hair behind. The original purpose of the rule was to prevent players from hanging back in an opponents end without the ball, the current rule simply ruins beautiful play and goals, which soccer needs more of not less.
I did think England was offside to start the chance but they didn’t look at that.
I did think England was offside to start the chance but they didn’t look at that.
There was no contact, White just missed the ball and took a dive. Justice done as the penalty attempt was terrible
Where is the disincentive? Cards for simulation are rare. Red cards extremely rare.
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Tough clutch player
White just slipped and fell. If that's called in the Premier League there would be fan unrest in the stands
England is already a very good team
Agreed. Despite her flop, White is a world class player.
onto the WC Final!
England played great.
Thought the US was a little selfish and should have had 2 goals had Press made a pass to one of two open players and thought Lloyd could have made a pass when she came from the GK's right.
The survived. Think England was the highest rated team left.
...late in second half!
I don't think the attacker was ever touched by the American. She swung and missed and her own momentum toppled her.
Bad call IMO... could have cost us the game!
In the angle from directly behind the play it was 100% clear that there was contact with White's leg as she wound up to shoot, which was why she miffed so badly. It was a correct call.
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where it was clear there was no contact. You could see a space between the defender and the leg.
In the angle from directly behind the play it was 100% clear that there was contact with White's leg as she wound up to shoot, which was why she miffed so badly. It was a correct call.
No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
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No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
cmon.. it's a judgement call by the ref. I didn't see contact but you can infer contact by the change of position of her leg. It was bad defense, anyway. And when you have someone falling to the ground on the ball and a kick with possible contact from behind.... you've seen that call before..
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In comment 14490052 dpinzow said:
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No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
Penalties are supposed to be clear and obvious though...if it takes that long to find a scrape of a boot on a leg (which isn't even readily apparent) it's not a penalty. It wasn't the kind of contact that could take a player down either, which also has to be taken into account. Poor application of VAR
yellow is called for because PS awarded (negates red)
But on penalties, it better be a clear and obvious penalty and that wasn't one, it was a judgment call
yellow is called for because PS awarded (negates red)
If it's inadvertent (legs clipping each other) it's not a penalty. There has to be intent to take a player down
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In comment 14490056 Mad Mike said:
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In comment 14490052 dpinzow said:
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No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
Penalties are supposed to be clear and obvious though...if it takes that long to find a scrape of a boot on a leg (which isn't even readily apparent) it's not a penalty. It wasn't the kind of contact that could take a player down either, which also has to be taken into account. Poor application of VAR
It was a clear trip. It wasn't incidental contact, nor was intentional. But the right leg was without question interfered with causing White to miss the kick and fall. The ref missed the original, but VAR saw it.
Never mind that it *was* clear on review, and even the way Sauerbrun went down, there was contact
But on penalties, it better be a clear and obvious penalty and that wasn't one, it was a judgment call
if it's a scrape it is a penalty.. that's the point.. you're interfering with a clear scoring chance. She looked it over and decided it was a pen.
Never mind that it *was* clear on review, and even the way Sauerbrun went down, there was contact
bingo.. quite right. it is the ref's judgement. nothing more. clear and obvious is not the standard.
I don't know England's personnel, but why do you have a defender taking the penalty and not their star forward?
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
penalties will certainly go up if you apply var to such calls.
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In comment 14490062 section125 said:
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In comment 14490056 Mad Mike said:
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In comment 14490052 dpinzow said:
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No way, it was either a dive or a complete whiff by White. There's no angle that shows contact
C'mon, really? It took a lot of angles, but some of this stuff is pretty clear.
There was contact Sauerbraun caught the right leg(trail leg) of White and tripped her. It was very clear on the video from behind.
Penalties are supposed to be clear and obvious though...if it takes that long to find a scrape of a boot on a leg (which isn't even readily apparent) it's not a penalty. It wasn't the kind of contact that could take a player down either, which also has to be taken into account. Poor application of VAR
It was a clear trip. It wasn't incidental contact, nor was intentional. But the right leg was without question interfered with causing White to miss the kick and fall. The ref missed the original, but VAR saw it.
She missed the ball prior to the contact
I don't know England's personnel, but why do you have a defender taking the penalty and not their star forward?
Wondered about that myself. If Houghton got it because she is captain I would say thank you very much.
And I do not care who might be best in practice. White has to be looser already having put two in the net on the night.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
I'm just saying if you apply the laws of the game like that to the premier league, guys like Salah, Sterling etc. are way better than the women's strikers and will go down at the first moment they're clipped in the box, and the game will turn into a farce
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Stop digging yourself in deeper. Inadvertent fouls are called all game long, every game. It is intentional and/or reckless fouls that warrant cards--that's why they are issued.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
I'm just saying if you apply the laws of the game like that to the premier league, guys like Salah, Sterling etc. are way better than the women's strikers and will go down at the first moment they're clipped in the box, and the game will turn into a farce
Please stop. It was a foul. If that was Morgan or Press you would have wanted it.
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In comment 14490084 ColHowPepper said:
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Stop digging yourself in deeper. Inadvertent fouls are called all game long, every game. It is intentional and/or reckless fouls that warrant cards--that's why they are issued.
In this case yellow was issued for a DOGSO, it would have been a red, but since PS awarded, it's a yellow (rule changed couple of years ago)
I'm just saying if you apply the laws of the game like that to the premier league, guys like Salah, Sterling etc. are way better than the women's strikers and will go down at the first moment they're clipped in the box, and the game will turn into a farce
Please stop. It was a foul. If that was Morgan or Press you would have wanted it.
No I would have been like, that's a dive
Why?
10 AM Eastern time BB
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That would mean 5am Sunday morning for the east coast? Am I reading that right?
10 AM Eastern time BB
The coverage on Fox starts at 10:00 am Eastern. The Game starts at 11:00 am Eastern.
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Please stop. It was a foul. If that was Morgan or Press you would have wanted it.
No I would have been like, that's a dive
It wasn't a dive. But it isn't worth talking anymore.
There is no contact with the legs until after she whiffs on the kick. Look at the replay from the goal, it's plain as day
it trends on twitter.
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Her knee hit the back of White's leg making her whiff. I thought it was a dive at first, but go back and watch it. Link - ( New Window )
There is no contact with the legs until after she whiffs on the kick. Look at the replay from the goal, it's plain as day
I don't know what you are looking at. The :52 sec mark her knee clearly hits White's calf causing her to whiff. That's what I see at least. To each their own.
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In comment 14490115 slickwilly said:
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Her knee hit the back of White's leg making her whiff. I thought it was a dive at first, but go back and watch it. Link - ( New Window )
There is no contact with the legs until after she whiffs on the kick. Look at the replay from the goal, it's plain as day
I don't know what you are looking at. The :52 sec mark her knee clearly hits White's calf causing her to whiff. That's what I see at least. To each their own.
.52 is a shitty angle, go to .59 and it's plain as day that her knee does not make contact prior to her missing the ball
Maybe the issues is that some of the angles don't show her being hit....but others 1000000% do.
Even if one sees contact, the motion she went to the ground with was exaggerated and showed her top part of her body contorting.
That's exactly the type of play that was meant to draw a simulation call.
If that had happened to Morgan, I'd say the same thing, but luckily for us, the men and women don't flop. Which bizarrely comes to a detriment to them.
I think I understand what you are saying, and White may well have embellished her 'dive' after the contact (as Morgan did multiple times, albeit legit fouls). But the key here was Sauerbrun's clip of White's calf as she (White) lagged it in preparation for the touch, and the clip was a clear factor in connection with the whiff. Because White is one smart ass football player, she then figured she better well sell it (to your point), but the damage had already been done. It *may* well be that her 'dive' triggered the review, which saw the clip.
dunno what montana was seeing.
It was a foul on the penalty kick. Very clear that Sauerbraun knee clipped White’s leg before she made contact with ball.
Do not like the back 5 that Ellis employs to defends lead late in the game.It invites unneeded pressure. Play your game.
Rose LaValle played a great game. Important to USWNT that her injury is not serious and that she can play in final. More so than Rapinoe in my opinion.
2 center backs were exposed big time by Ellen White. They need to clean that up for final.
I like the physical play of Lindsey Horan.
Where is Julie Ertz?
Dunn growing into her role in the back on defense. Major improvement in her game since WC began.
Maybe the issues is that some of the angles don't show her being hit....but others 1000000% do.
Wrong, the ONLY angle that shows the clearest view is the one at .59 secs in the link above. The ball had gone by her kick at that point
I think I understand what you are saying, and White may well have embellished her 'dive' after the contact (as Morgan did multiple times, albeit legit fouls). But the key here was Sauerbrun's clip of White's calf as she (White) lagged it in preparation for the touch, and the clip was a clear factor in connection with the whiff. Because White is one smart ass football player, she then figured she better well sell it (to your point), but the damage had already been done. It *may* well be that her 'dive' triggered the review, which saw the clip.
dunno what montana was seeing.
Go to.59 secs of that link and tell me where her knee hits her prior to her missing the ball
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we usually see eye to eye; on this one we don't, and I fully credit that 'if you know soccer' includes you, unlike some.
I think I understand what you are saying, and White may well have embellished her 'dive' after the contact (as Morgan did multiple times, albeit legit fouls). But the key here was Sauerbrun's clip of White's calf as she (White) lagged it in preparation for the touch, and the clip was a clear factor in connection with the whiff. Because White is one smart ass football player, she then figured she better well sell it (to your point), but the damage had already been done. It *may* well be that her 'dive' triggered the review, which saw the clip.
dunno what montana was seeing.
Go to.59 secs of that link and tell me where her knee hits her prior to her missing the ball
Actually, it's at 57 secs. complete whiff of the ball then the knee comes forward and barely touches her which also gets pointed out by the analyst on the broadcast
Screw goal count... Heath has been awesome.
Just my $.02 - doesn't matter now, as this was truly a "ball don't lie" situation. Wasn't much of a penalty and it wasn't much of a penalty kick. The newspapers in England are having a field day with it , not surprising if you know the history of the English mens team in World Cup penalty kick situations.
Just my $.02 - doesn't matter now, as this was truly a "ball don't lie" situation. Wasn't much of a penalty and it wasn't much of a penalty kick. The newspapers in England are having a field day with it , not surprising if you know the history of the English mens team in World Cup penalty kick situations.
I agree with you and I'd also add the US defender acknowledged after the match there was contact but she felt it was a goal scoring play and had to try and make a play. She didn't seem to have a problem with the penalty being called because she knew she made contact.
Rick,
mostly agree; not only going to the 5 in the back, but so early! At like 72 minutes if I recall the time. It's like Ellis is so protective of her team's psyche that she doesn't want them to possess in the middle and attacking thirds, it's a lack of belief and confidence.
Had the exact same thought re. Ertz, just a non-factor, and she had two good looks, did well to create space for herself, but her technique in the strike was off both times, ball sailed
I think Lavelle had difficulty in her decision making in and around the PA; she's very good getting there, maybe too much pace, if that's possible (see next) but today and vs France she came up empty, part of it was, as vs Spain, her teammates doing her no favors, no runs, as I recall maybe late to position. I re-watched France, Rapinoe was outstanding in all facets, she disrupted possession, she laid off to Morgan, it was her pass that set up the sequence on which Dunn was offside before he delivery to Heath. That doesn't mean she won all her runs down the flank, she didn't, but France had to account for her all game, and didn't
Dunn has grown: her athleticism is over the top, but she is still prone to bite at fakes and make the careless clear or pass to opponent. There was one stretch where every player was sending the ball to the opponent, about 12 minutes in to H2
Like Horan too, she is solid; she may well start vs tomorrow's winner with Lavelle and Pinoe ??. O'Hara continues to be solid on the right side, she is all heart, gung ho, intense, love her demeanor.
It was obvious to me Heath had to come out; I mentioned the weight loss, I think the tournament has drained her. How much does she have left? Same can be asked of all those still to play.
There is too much flopping in the game and it is rewarded. Get brushed in the face, and players drop like they've been cut with a machete. Is it technically a foul? Yes. Is it still a flop? Yep.
We know that it isn't just a women thing - it is much more pervasive in the men's game, but the issue I have is that cards for simulation are rarely shown, while game-altering or deciding penalties are often given. With goals in such short supply, embellishment and trickery should not be at play.
I didn't think the US should have been awarded a penalty against Spain. It wasn't a flop or embellishment - but the contact was so minimal and didn't have a tangible impact that it shouldn't be called. Even if I concede that the english player was contacted today, her ridiculous embellishment should negate any award of a penalty shot.
Now, I fully realize the rules are the rules, but when it comes to flopping, FIFA continually threatens to crack down on it (because they know it is a huge issue), but they never truly do. And then when you see a Robben, Neymar, Suarez or that english player today flail their head and torso back unnaturally while going to the turf and it gets accepted as legit - there is a problem.
That the penalty kick was missed - is soccer justice.
Rick,
mostly agree; not only going to the 5 in the back, but so early! At like 72 minutes if I recall the time. It's like Ellis is so protective of her team's psyche that she doesn't want them to possess in the middle and attacking thirds, it's a lack of belief and confidence.
Had the exact same thought re. Ertz, just a non-factor, and she had two good looks, did well to create space for herself, but her technique in the strike was off both times, ball sailed
I think Lavelle had difficulty in her decision making in and around the PA; she's very good getting there, maybe too much pace, if that's possible (see next) but today and vs France she came up empty, part of it was, as vs Spain, her teammates doing her no favors, no runs, as I recall maybe late to position. I re-watched France, Rapinoe was outstanding in all facets, she disrupted possession, she laid off to Morgan, it was her pass that set up the sequence on which Dunn was offside before he delivery to Heath. That doesn't mean she won all her runs down the flank, she didn't, but France had to account for her all game, and didn't
Dunn has grown: her athleticism is over the top, but she is still prone to bite at fakes and make the careless clear or pass to opponent. There was one stretch where every player was sending the ball to the opponent, about 12 minutes in to H2
Like Horan too, she is solid; she may well start vs tomorrow's winner with Lavelle and Pinoe ??. O'Hara continues to be solid on the right side, she is all heart, gung ho, intense, love her demeanor.
It was obvious to me Heath had to come out; I mentioned the weight loss, I think the tournament has drained her. How much does she have left? Same can be asked of all those still to play.
No, it wasn't. Back it up to 55 or 54 secs and she's not close to touching her.
The contact (if there was any) occurs after White whiffed on the ball. And even then it's extremely slight. That pic I posted above is the closes her knee gets to White and that is after the ball went past White
She just whiffed on the ball and then embellished contact. Smart on her part but the argument there was contact prior to her getting the ball is wrong
You can clearly see air between the two players legs.
And I'll just reiterate the other point I've been making. If the standard for contact is that minimal to award a try at goal - something's wrong. And when a player obviously embellishes without punishment - something's wrong.
the ugly Americans. Mocking the losers is terrible
This.
The tea-drinking thing was horrible. There's a reason the rest of the world hates us.
Most fringe fans might not realize this, but the reason the rest of the world is improving in the game is because of the inroads the US team has made and the spotlight they've put on the disparity between them and men's teams.
Soccer has always been there on the World's stage for men. Women didn't have a World Cup until 1991. Since that time, the US had led the drive for more equal treatment. Most of the players have friends and teammates on the opponents they play. A celebration drinking tea is a friendly jab, not some arrogant showing.
That’s her celebration for every goal. It is the celebration of Anthony Modeste in the Bundesliga, of whom she is a fan of
Agreed. It’s more likely because of the hot dog and ketchup thing.
As someone above said, mocking the losers on a worldwide stage like this looks terrible, and a 30-yr-old has no excuse. And especially when the losing team is our close friend and ally.
Par for the course, I'm afraid.
Many of England's players are close friends to the US team members!
Big woop.
Go USA!
It was coming from a link somebody had posted above showing the replay. I don't know if montana possted the link or slick willy did.
I don't blame her, the British press had been basically talking shit about them from the start of the tourney and it culminated with them claiming that they were arrogant prior to yesterdays game
and I love that people don't like it.
CHP, this is the link
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some of you, but the reason the rest of the world hates us isn’t because Alex Morgan pretended to drink tea.
As someone above said, mocking the losers on a worldwide stage like this looks terrible, and a 30-yr-old has no excuse. And especially when the losing team is our close friend and ally.
Par for the course, I'm afraid.
We should be more like England and start bitching about how the USA was trying to spy on them by looking for hotels to stay in. Now thats classy!
I get that some of the criticism they get has been earned by them being outspoken. There are two sides to that conversation. But think about just this tournament itself. First, they were criticized for badly beating a team in the World Cup, as if the match were some sort of Girl Scout meeting where everyone gets a patch. Then they were called underdogs to the French, and when they beat them and rightly celebrated, they were called arrogant and overrated by the British press and accused of cheating by the English coach! So yeah, Alex Morgan pretended to drink some tea. Good for her.
I suppose what's great about all of this is that there are huge arguments and discussions about this match in ways that I've never seen. In many ways, we might look back at this as a watershed moment for the women's game, which is quite awesome to watch at this level.
Oh, and it was a clear penalty.
The ironic part of this game was beating a Country devoted to a sport that most of America could care less about...
The ironic part of this game was beating a Country devoted to a sport that most of America could care less about...
People care more about women's sports in this country than any other country and it isn't even close.
Is anyone disparaging Uruguay when Suarez takes a bite out of somebody? When Christiano Ronaldo preens like a peacock are people calling Portugal arrogant? When Neymar flops like a pussy every chance he can, do people question the tactics/gamesmanship of Brazil?
Comments about ugliness is a manufactured storyline.
CHP, this is the link link - ( New Window )
On the Fox replay (and thanks) at ~48 seconds captures Sauerbrun's clipping White's calf, but the angle is not as clear.
Now on to FMiC's post last night, which I just saw.
I get that some of the criticism they get has been earned by them being outspoken. There are two sides to that conversation. But think about just this tournament itself. First, they were criticized for badly beating a team in the World Cup, as if the match were some sort of Girl Scout meeting where everyone gets a patch. Then they were called underdogs to the French, and when they beat them and rightly celebrated, they were called arrogant and overrated by the time.
Yeh it's the "World Cup" but there are teams involved that shouldn't even be there. The fact of the matter is women's soccer just isn't that big anywhere else in the world. Go ask Marta and the Brazilians about the lack of respect they get from their federation. Thailand has no business even making a World Cup but they are there because they wanted to expand the team pool. And underdogs to the French? They were favorites.
In a player's world--and also from the point of view of the refs, who once they see a team target the other team's best or key player for physical abuse--the target refuses to be a passive victim and wants to ensure the ref as taken notice of the contact. Thus Morgan in this WC, a target in every match since Group play ended. I don't like her embellishment, but she is is seeking to mitigate offenses, and potential injury, against her by ripping off efforts by defenders to disguise or minimize their contact, intentionally 'careless' or reckless.
A big part of the problem is recent emphasis on penalizing contact with the face or neck in a legit attempt to protect players. A lot of it occurs in 50/50 balls as one player seeks to free himself, lunges with the body to turn/shield, and hands fly out behind her. Then the inevitable dervish reaction after contact is made.
I agree 100% that caution for unsporting play--simulation--needs to be enforced, and it is not. Big issue that FIFA doesn't seem to want to take head on.
In the case in question, White-Sauerbrun, I am pretty confident that the contact impeded/affected White's ability to swing through her touching/striking motion and was a factor in her whiff. Players on the move hard, as they try to properly touch, weight, or direct the ball can be thrown off by slight contact, and here I think it was more than that.
I have to go back to match vs Spain but my recollection is I had the same reaction as you. Calls in the box are challenging. Period. Just as is when a keeper slides out in the PA to grab a ball rolling/bouncing free and makes contact with an onrushing opponent.
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This women's team is everything the men aren't. With the exception of a poor decision by Ellis to go to 5 at the back too early, they are a team that doesn't just win, but does so with a ruthlessness that is a joy to watch. They are tremendously skilled and rip hearts out of chests and I'm all for it.
I get that some of the criticism they get has been earned by them being outspoken. There are two sides to that conversation. But think about just this tournament itself. First, they were criticized for badly beating a team in the World Cup, as if the match were some sort of Girl Scout meeting where everyone gets a patch. Then they were called underdogs to the French, and when they beat them and rightly celebrated, they were called arrogant and overrated by the time.
Yeh it's the "World Cup" but there are teams involved that shouldn't even be there. The fact of the matter is women's soccer just isn't that big anywhere else in the world. Go ask Marta and the Brazilians about the lack of respect they get from their federation. Thailand has no business even making a World Cup but they are there because they wanted to expand the team pool. And underdogs to the French? They were favorites.
So what exactly is your point? Is it that the US should apologize for beating Thailand? Is it that we should use Brazilian standards for judging American women? Is it that Thailand should have declined their invitation? Should we ignore that France had beaten the United States 2 out of the previous three simply because Vegas got it right?
I'd love to know what, exactly, is the point you're trying to make? Or are you simply trying to tear down my post because it strokes your ego? Any clue would be appreciated.
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In comment 14490455 ColHowPepper said:///////
CHP, this is the link link - ( New Window )
Thanks, montana: the problem is that the sequence at 57 - 59 seconds doesn't capture the contact, which occurred split seconds before, when White was drawing her right leg back to swing through her touch.
On the Fox replay (and thanks) at ~48 seconds captures Sauerbrun's clipping White's calf, but the angle is not as clear.
Now on to FMiC's post last night, which I just saw.
I don't see it
That almost is physically impossible. How could she clip her with her left knee when she did not bring it forward until the .57 sec mark and it's still a good 5" from her leg?
Her knee mimics Whites attempt, they are in tandem. In other words, her left leg is back while White is winding up and then her knee comes forward after white misses while coming forward
I agree that at seconds 57-59 there is space between their limbs, but that comes after the contact.