Nope the arent. Running the ball in the end zone with the ball is 100% certain though. Cool nickname though. Didn’t know a 5th grade education would benefit you so much.
Except it’s not when it leaves time on the clock Â
Did they score? No. Ok thanks for playing. Better luck next time. Maybe we should have been more like Seattle and waste the game clock against NE. Worked out well for them, didn’t it?
Brady time and the best he did was get it to what near midfield? The fact was they didn’t score and we won. The fact is Seattle burned the clock to make sure Brady didn’t get it back, rushed a play, and lost.
Man, I wouldn’t use the word simpleton unless you’re looking in the mirror cause you are really dumb when it comes to football.
The five biggest plays of the turnaround included (corresponding to the letters on the chart below): A) Tom Brady's incomplete pass on 3rd-and-11 at the Giants 44, forcing a punt; B) Eli Manning's 38-yard pass to Mario Manningham to start the game-winning drive; C) Manningham's 16-yard catch to the Patriots 34 putting the Giants in field goal range (this was the biggest play based on WPA); D) Hakeem Nicks 14-yard catch to the 18; and E) Ahmad Bradshaw's take-a-dump-on-the-goal line touchdown.
Bill Belichick may have made one of the gutsiest calls in Super Bowl history: instructing his defense to allow the Giants to score the go-ahead touchdown with just a minute remaining. The only gutsier move would’ve been for the Giants to respond by not scoring. Instead, Ahmad Bradshaw’s six-yard run and subsequent pratfall into the end zone may have been the most counterproductive score of all time.
That run came on second down, with 1:04 remaining. Here’s why the Giants didn’t want a touchdown in that situation. The best-case scenario for New York would have been to run the ball one more time, draining the clock and forcing the Patriots to expend their final timeout. Then, with just a few seconds remaining, send in the field goal unit for what would have been a 99 percent kick in perfect indoor conditions to take the lead by a point, leaving virtually no time for the Patriots to respond. Using Win Probability (a simple estimate of who’s going to win based on score and other variables), we know that if Bradshaw been able to stop his momentum and fall prior to scoring, the Giants would have had a 0.98 WP—in other words, a 98 percent chance of winning.
While it looked as if Bradshaw was pulling the video-game trick of burning an additional second or two prior to scoring, he told reporters after the game, “I tried to declare myself down and tapped down. My momentum took me into the end zone.” When he scored, the Patriots had a minute left and one timeout, which typically amounts to a 0.88 WP. The touchdown actually cost the Giants 0.1 WP and unnecessarily kept the Patriots’ hopes alive.
Actually taking the points right then and there, because you are trailing. Tie game may be a different scenario. The more plays you run, the more bad things can happen. Penalties, turnovers, etc.
Again, nothing is guaranteed (as noted by my 3 recent examples in playoff lore). So if you have the opportunity to take the GUARANTEED points, you take them. But why look at history when people in the analytical world who never played the game can assess their own value on stuff they truly don’t understand?
Seems kind of silly to disregard the %s noted altogether Â
numerous variables involved so can use/not use whatever is deemed suitable. Ignoring the percentages altogether does not seem like the smart play, but not surprised...
numerous variables involved so can use/not use whatever is deemed suitable. Ignoring the percentages altogether does not seem like the smart play, but not surprised...
Actually you’re ignoring the percentages.
It’s 100% guarantee we score if Bradshaw walks in
It’s not 100% if he doesn’t. So if we want guarantee a score... we did the right thing. You keep assuming that we would score AND win if we don’t score.
Since you’re a simple man, I’ll explain this as simple as possible. Since we are losing and need a score to take the lead, you take it when it presents itself. Leaving others for chance can lead to more negative consequences.
And in the end- it didn’t hurt the Broncos when they scored against the Packers and it didn’t hurt us. So I guess the right play was made.
McL posted an analytical link about this topic- Bradshaw himself said he tried to stop before the EZ, and Belicheck tried to allow us to score...
Even if for whatever reason we don't score on the ensuing play (after forcing NE to take its final TO) - the article said chances of winning were higher if we had kicked the FG at the buzzer.
And you point to 2-3 instances in playoff history where a player shanked it -- but there are plenty in playoff history where a team scores, leaves the other team time, and they go score to win.... hence the analytics argument McL posted.
McL posted an analytical link about this topic- Bradshaw himself said he tried to stop before the EZ, and Belicheck tried to allow us to score...
Even if for whatever reason we don't score on the ensuing play (after forcing NE to take its final TO) - the article said chances of winning were higher if we had kicked the FG at the buzzer.
And you point to 2-3 instances in playoff history where a player shanked it -- but there are plenty in playoff history where a team scores, leaves the other team time, and they go score to win.... hence the analytics argument McL posted.
No I am not being stubborn. McL posted an argument that Bradshaw scoring gave us the highest % of winning. He wasnt sure what it was if he knelt.
I pointed to three examples that happened in the last 12 years that stuck out. I am sure there are quite a few more on my end. I even used an example of another time where a team let the other score and it didnt help them to win the game either.
Like I said, in a tie game - I am all for him not scoring because a miss ensures the game will go on. However, you need to get the points when they are presented to you.
Plus, even by not scoring Brady still has the ball with roughly 20 seconds left from his own 20 to get a FG to win the game. Thats 40 yards in 2 plays? Probable? No. Possible? Absolutely.
They had to go 80 yards in 57 seconds to win the game if Bradshaw scored.
They had to go 40 yards in 20 seconds to try a FG. And if you dont think its possible.... they went 35 yards in 19 seconds on the final drive. Thats a 63 yard field goal attempt indoors to win the SB. Definitely doable.
Its still my opinion they made the right play, and with the outcome of the game over - they didnt screw it up.
RE: RE: The educational standards in our country Â
Which doesn't necessarily provide the full picture.
What's more, I realize now is that the chart is suspect since the Giants had only about an 80% WPA before the Bradshaw TD. With 1st down on the 7 or so, the probability should have been well over 95%.
So, I think the article Googs linked is probably more accurate.
it must be the teachers we allow in our schools...
Or blaming others for our deficiencies? Like I said, you're never wrong in your eyes.
It’s easiest to just blame you...since it’s a likely probability anyway.
honest question... what have you ever been right about when it comes to football? I mean the only thing you are known for is “...” and attacking posters when they prove you wrong.
I moreso stick up for posters when they are ridiculously attacked by the moronic bullies and defenders of the faith that troll these waters looking for weak statements and/or minority opinions. Ironically calling them trolls when it’s literally the reverse.
Me attack?...thats ponderous
And Dep I am curious. Mostly because I have some free time now Â
But what football topics have I been so wrong on...give me a few?
It’s very cowardly to ask a question without answering someone else’s first. Kind of shows that you don’t have an answer which kind of backs everything I claim. Time to defend yourself with some actual facts that you rarely provide.
Trying to throw on the Raven's defense in the Super Bowl. Kerry Collins was scared shitless, and you could see it on his face.
A few days after that game, Carl Banks said that if Fassel had left Garrett in the game after he temporarily took over for Collins, the Giants would have won the game. I agree. Collins repeatedly missed open receivers by throwing too soon.
Collins was not only playing scared but he was playing hurt too. Didn't know that until after the game was long over. But Carl really thinks Jason Garrett wouldve stepped in and threw all over that defense up and down the field? Was he high when he said that?
Nobody was beating the Ravens that year. Period.
If you saw the game, you saw that Giants receivers were open and Collins was missing them by wide margins. In addition, if Collins was hurt, all the more reason to play Garrett.
You’re a clown. Ok, I will go first if it makes you step up Â
To name a few from last season...
- continuing to allow Flowers to be on team, no less start was a joke
- that the Stewart signing was a complete waste of money for RB that should have retired
- that the team will not consistently win again with Eli at QB (second year in a row). Though I wish I was wrong here.
I remember you were big against that.
I don’t remember Flowers .... probably because everyone said it. So I’ll take your word for it.
As far as Eli? You haven’t been right because you have blamed him for all the teams shortcomigs. Which is flat out wrong. Because he played well enough for the team to be over .500 last year but the rest of the team sucked.
As far as what you have been wrong?
You harped that Eli wouldn’t start in 18 or 19.
You harped OBJ wasn’t a problem and would be here long term.
You have blamed Eli for all of the offenses problems and said there was enough talent to win.
And let’s not forget last night where you said Bradshaw was wrong for scoring even though we won.
So Stewart and possibly Flowers. Great job. Like I said, never wrong.
I never said he was the only problem nor that the team has enough talent to win despite him. In fact I have promoted this team restructure for several years and also restructure the QB position.
I said the Bradshaw score could have been handled Â
differently to improve chances of winning. It was an example of what not to do. Winning occurred but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t done via taking on more risk.
Admission of what you said instead of twisting your own words around.
I know you won’t. But there are plenty of posters who you have engaged with that you said all those things.
The funny thing is how you are contradicting your own statements without realizing it. I’ll let you try to figure it out how. Should keep ya busy for a few days, possibly months...
The problem you have is you argue so much and with so many posters that you lose track of who says what and why. I seldom even look at the names of posters I comment with, sans a few chuckleheads that need to be taken down a few notches every now and then. You criticize me because my posts are short. Except, unlike you, I don’t need to be that verbose to make my point.
Now if you think I misstated my position on any of the above then prove it. Or shut the hell up...
Or else what? Anyone can lie and say they didn’t say something. I’ll play. I’ve been the most objective poster on Eli on BBI! Don’t believe me - we’ll show me where I’m wrong or else!!!! This is what children do. And we all know you act like a petulant child when proven wrong.
We all know you said the things I brought up. Plus we all know you will never admit it because it’s what you do. And it’s very easy to remember what you specifically said since you say the SAME things over and over and over again. And when proven wrong over and over and over again... you reply with some type of insult followed by your moronic “...” as if anyone is impressed.
You brag all the time how you prove me wrong.... well go ahead and show me one time you’ve proven me wrong. I won’t make an idle threat because again, that’s what children do.
But looking forward to another year of you...
- twisting people’s words when you don’t know what you’re talking about
- blaming Eli for everything
- “...”
- petty insults to posters who have proven they know more than you.
- short replies that make no sense.
It’s a big part of why I donate. When I feel a little down, I read your posts and am like “wow, I don’t have it as bad as I thought.”
So let me thank you for the past few weeks of your posting. Between dealing with the possibility cancer to not being able to sleep to not seeing my kids for a few weeks....
Your nonsensical posting made me feel better. Now go have another beer. You deserve one!!!
Easily THE WORST playcall I can remember as a Giants fan, and it cost them the game and a chance to be back to back Supewr Bowl Champs.
Giants fans always, before and after this, questioned Gilbride's playcalling, but this was the ONLY time I flat out wanted to Kill him (I was very emotional about this loss).
10 minutes left, Giants needed 2 scores, either 2 TDs or a TD and 2 point conversion and a FG to tie, and the Giants turned it over on downs deep in their own territory by running Brandon Jacobs between the R guard and Tackle on 3rd and short (not a bad call), and then on 4th and short (which was the worst call I had ever seen the Giants try to force because everyone, players, and fans, knew it was coming because they lined up in the same power formation as they did the play before). I get the logic, the O line was the strength of the team, and Jacob should have been able to get a yard, but the Eagles had the momentum, knew exactly what was coming, and stuffed it cold. I was screaming "PLAY ACTION! PLAY ACTION!" at the TV to no avail.
That loss made me sicker than any other Giants loss. I felt sick for days.
But I didn't cry like that asshole in that famous youtube video.
Nope the arent. Running the ball in the end zone with the ball is 100% certain though. Cool nickname though. Didn’t know a 5th grade education would benefit you so much.
These are the things chuckleheads forget...
These are the things chuckleheads forget...
Did they score? No. Ok thanks for playing. Better luck next time. Maybe we should have been more like Seattle and waste the game clock against NE. Worked out well for them, didn’t it?
Man, I wouldn’t use the word simpleton unless you’re looking in the mirror cause you are really dumb when it comes to football.
Lord you are simple, huh?
“Sorry” for giving you 3 recent examples where your strategy backfired in recent playoffs.
I should have known better that it would be too much for you. “Haha...”
😟
Yes I know I posters like me.
And you aren’t any part of we...
[img]
https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f2f716e6bb3f7c11900003e-480-361.jpg
[/img]
Now its possible falling down at the 1 would have resulted in a higher WPA... That seems unlikely though.
Seems that scoring, taking the lead and removing any possibility of something going wrong is actually the better percentage play.
https://www.businessinsider.com/sports-chart-of-the-day-how-the-patriots-blew-a-super-bowl-win-2012-2
Bill Belichick may have made one of the gutsiest calls in Super Bowl history: instructing his defense to allow the Giants to score the go-ahead touchdown with just a minute remaining. The only gutsier move would’ve been for the Giants to respond by not scoring. Instead, Ahmad Bradshaw’s six-yard run and subsequent pratfall into the end zone may have been the most counterproductive score of all time.
That run came on second down, with 1:04 remaining. Here’s why the Giants didn’t want a touchdown in that situation. The best-case scenario for New York would have been to run the ball one more time, draining the clock and forcing the Patriots to expend their final timeout. Then, with just a few seconds remaining, send in the field goal unit for what would have been a 99 percent kick in perfect indoor conditions to take the lead by a point, leaving virtually no time for the Patriots to respond. Using Win Probability (a simple estimate of who’s going to win based on score and other variables), we know that if Bradshaw been able to stop his momentum and fall prior to scoring, the Giants would have had a 0.98 WP—in other words, a 98 percent chance of winning.
While it looked as if Bradshaw was pulling the video-game trick of burning an additional second or two prior to scoring, he told reporters after the game, “I tried to declare myself down and tapped down. My momentum took me into the end zone.” When he scored, the Patriots had a minute left and one timeout, which typically amounts to a 0.88 WP. The touchdown actually cost the Giants 0.1 WP and unnecessarily kept the Patriots’ hopes alive.
Again, nothing is guaranteed (as noted by my 3 recent examples in playoff lore). So if you have the opportunity to take the GUARANTEED points, you take them. But why look at history when people in the analytical world who never played the game can assess their own value on stuff they truly don’t understand?
Decision could still be to try and score there, but giving the ball back with time to a guy who is pretty good at QB brings more risk.
Oh and for the record, analytics from time to time can be your friend, and some of "those people" that use them even played football...
Actually you’re ignoring the percentages.
It’s 100% guarantee we score if Bradshaw walks in
It’s not 100% if he doesn’t. So if we want guarantee a score... we did the right thing. You keep assuming that we would score AND win if we don’t score.
Since you’re a simple man, I’ll explain this as simple as possible. Since we are losing and need a score to take the lead, you take it when it presents itself. Leaving others for chance can lead to more negative consequences.
And in the end- it didn’t hurt the Broncos when they scored against the Packers and it didn’t hurt us. So I guess the right play was made.
Summer school is in session “haha...”
Lol. I agree. You keep insulting people’s intelligence when you may be the dumbest poster on this board.
At first I felt sorry for you, now I actually enjoy your stupidity.
Even if for whatever reason we don't score on the ensuing play (after forcing NE to take its final TO) - the article said chances of winning were higher if we had kicked the FG at the buzzer.
And you point to 2-3 instances in playoff history where a player shanked it -- but there are plenty in playoff history where a team scores, leaves the other team time, and they go score to win.... hence the analytics argument McL posted.
Even if for whatever reason we don't score on the ensuing play (after forcing NE to take its final TO) - the article said chances of winning were higher if we had kicked the FG at the buzzer.
And you point to 2-3 instances in playoff history where a player shanked it -- but there are plenty in playoff history where a team scores, leaves the other team time, and they go score to win.... hence the analytics argument McL posted.
No I am not being stubborn. McL posted an argument that Bradshaw scoring gave us the highest % of winning. He wasnt sure what it was if he knelt.
I pointed to three examples that happened in the last 12 years that stuck out. I am sure there are quite a few more on my end. I even used an example of another time where a team let the other score and it didnt help them to win the game either.
Like I said, in a tie game - I am all for him not scoring because a miss ensures the game will go on. However, you need to get the points when they are presented to you.
Plus, even by not scoring Brady still has the ball with roughly 20 seconds left from his own 20 to get a FG to win the game. Thats 40 yards in 2 plays? Probable? No. Possible? Absolutely.
They had to go 80 yards in 57 seconds to win the game if Bradshaw scored.
They had to go 40 yards in 20 seconds to try a FG. And if you dont think its possible.... they went 35 yards in 19 seconds on the final drive. Thats a 63 yard field goal attempt indoors to win the SB. Definitely doable.
Its still my opinion they made the right play, and with the outcome of the game over - they didnt screw it up.
Quote:
have seemingly hit a new low...
Lol. I agree. You keep insulting people’s intelligence when you may be the dumbest poster on this board.
At first I felt sorry for you, now I actually enjoy your stupidity.
it must be the teachers we allow in our schools...
it must be the teachers we allow in our schools...
Or blaming others for our deficiencies? Like I said, you're never wrong in your eyes.
What's more, I realize now is that the chart is suspect since the Giants had only about an 80% WPA before the Bradshaw TD. With 1st down on the 7 or so, the probability should have been well over 95%.
So, I think the article Googs linked is probably more accurate.
Quote:
.
This for sure. No contest.
Yup.
Quote:
it must be the teachers we allow in our schools...
Or blaming others for our deficiencies? Like I said, you're never wrong in your eyes.
It’s easiest to just blame you...since it’s a likely probability anyway.
Quote:
In comment 14491641 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
it must be the teachers we allow in our schools...
Or blaming others for our deficiencies? Like I said, you're never wrong in your eyes.
It’s easiest to just blame you...since it’s a likely probability anyway.
honest question... what have you ever been right about when it comes to football? I mean the only thing you are known for is “...” and attacking posters when they prove you wrong.
Me attack?...thats ponderous
But what football topics have I been so wrong on...give me a few?
But what football topics have I been so wrong on...give me a few?
It’s very cowardly to ask a question without answering someone else’s first. Kind of shows that you don’t have an answer which kind of backs everything I claim. Time to defend yourself with some actual facts that you rarely provide.
Quote:
In comment 14489804 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Trying to throw on the Raven's defense in the Super Bowl. Kerry Collins was scared shitless, and you could see it on his face.
A few days after that game, Carl Banks said that if Fassel had left Garrett in the game after he temporarily took over for Collins, the Giants would have won the game. I agree. Collins repeatedly missed open receivers by throwing too soon.
Collins was not only playing scared but he was playing hurt too. Didn't know that until after the game was long over. But Carl really thinks Jason Garrett wouldve stepped in and threw all over that defense up and down the field? Was he high when he said that?
Nobody was beating the Ravens that year. Period.
If you saw the game, you saw that Giants receivers were open and Collins was missing them by wide margins. In addition, if Collins was hurt, all the more reason to play Garrett.
- continuing to allow Flowers to be on team, no less start was a joke
- that the Stewart signing was a complete waste of money for RB that should have retired
- that the team will not consistently win again with Eli at QB (second year in a row). Though I wish I was wrong here.
Ok, your turn.
I don’t remember Flowers .... probably because everyone said it. So I’ll take your word for it.
As far as Eli? You haven’t been right because you have blamed him for all the teams shortcomigs. Which is flat out wrong. Because he played well enough for the team to be over .500 last year but the rest of the team sucked.
As far as what you have been wrong?
You harped that Eli wouldn’t start in 18 or 19.
You harped OBJ wasn’t a problem and would be here long term.
You have blamed Eli for all of the offenses problems and said there was enough talent to win.
And let’s not forget last night where you said Bradshaw was wrong for scoring even though we won.
So Stewart and possibly Flowers. Great job. Like I said, never wrong.
Don’t mis-state the comments.
I know you won’t. But there are plenty of posters who you have engaged with that you said all those things.
The funny thing is how you are contradicting your own statements without realizing it. I’ll let you try to figure it out how. Should keep ya busy for a few days, possibly months...
The problem you have is you argue so much and with so many posters that you lose track of who says what and why. I seldom even look at the names of posters I comment with, sans a few chuckleheads that need to be taken down a few notches every now and then. You criticize me because my posts are short. Except, unlike you, I don’t need to be that verbose to make my point.
Now if you think I misstated my position on any of the above then prove it. Or shut the hell up...
We all know you said the things I brought up. Plus we all know you will never admit it because it’s what you do. And it’s very easy to remember what you specifically said since you say the SAME things over and over and over again. And when proven wrong over and over and over again... you reply with some type of insult followed by your moronic “...” as if anyone is impressed.
You brag all the time how you prove me wrong.... well go ahead and show me one time you’ve proven me wrong. I won’t make an idle threat because again, that’s what children do.
But looking forward to another year of you...
- twisting people’s words when you don’t know what you’re talking about
- blaming Eli for everything
- “...”
- petty insults to posters who have proven they know more than you.
- short replies that make no sense.
It’s a big part of why I donate. When I feel a little down, I read your posts and am like “wow, I don’t have it as bad as I thought.”
So let me thank you for the past few weeks of your posting. Between dealing with the possibility cancer to not being able to sleep to not seeing my kids for a few weeks....
Your nonsensical posting made me feel better. Now go have another beer. You deserve one!!!
Giants fans always, before and after this, questioned Gilbride's playcalling, but this was the ONLY time I flat out wanted to Kill him (I was very emotional about this loss).
10 minutes left, Giants needed 2 scores, either 2 TDs or a TD and 2 point conversion and a FG to tie, and the Giants turned it over on downs deep in their own territory by running Brandon Jacobs between the R guard and Tackle on 3rd and short (not a bad call), and then on 4th and short (which was the worst call I had ever seen the Giants try to force because everyone, players, and fans, knew it was coming because they lined up in the same power formation as they did the play before). I get the logic, the O line was the strength of the team, and Jacob should have been able to get a yard, but the Eagles had the momentum, knew exactly what was coming, and stuffed it cold. I was screaming "PLAY ACTION! PLAY ACTION!" at the TV to no avail.
That loss made me sicker than any other Giants loss. I felt sick for days.
But I didn't cry like that asshole in that famous youtube video.