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NGT: Old time football film from 1948 AAFC NY Yankees

truebluelarry : 7/3/2019 7:16 pm
This film is in remarkably good shape and in color too!

One of the things I like about this film is that you can see the evolution of football before your eyses. Buffalo plays out of the T formation while the Yankees use the Single Wing. Both defenses use the five man line.

At about the 1:25 mark #76 Buddy Young (who was part of a discussion in Defenderdawg's Tuesday Reading thread yesterday) busts a long TD run after taking a lateral.


Yankees at Bills 1948 AAFC - ( New Window )
The five-man line raises a question:  
81_Great_Dane : 7/3/2019 10:20 pm : link
If you have a five-man D-line, what are the positions called? Is the guy in the middle called a guard or a center?

Noting that "guard" and "center" are now used to describe O-line positions, and even when there's an odd number of D-linemen, with a nose tackle over the ball, that player is never called a "center." Though according to at least one Wikipedia article he is sometimes called a "middle guard" or a "nose guard." By whom? Dunno.
Damn that ball looks hard to throw  
GiantsLaw : 7/4/2019 2:33 am : link
Looks like throwing a basketball.
RE: The five-man line raises a question:  
truebluelarry : 7/4/2019 5:47 am : link
In comment 14491337 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
If you have a five-man D-line, what are the positions called? Is the guy in the middle called a guard or a center?

Noting that "guard" and "center" are now used to describe O-line positions, and even when there's an odd number of D-linemen, with a nose tackle over the ball, that player is never called a "center." Though according to at least one Wikipedia article he is sometimes called a "middle guard" or a "nose guard." By whom? Dunno.


Middle guard, 2 tackles, 2 ends was the parlance of the times. :-)
Yup, Middle Guard.  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2019 7:31 am : link
In fact and iirc, the Topps’ football cards I collected back then had the middle guard designation as a position.

Great as usual, Larry
Also worth noting is the terminology for the unblanaced line  
truebluelarry : 7/4/2019 8:19 am : link
which the Yankees run in this film.

The "center" was actually knows as the "pivot", and is lined up inside the tackle (either left or right depending on which side of the field the ball is set, the strenght of the formation was usually toward the middle of the field.

The two guards were then lined up off the pivot. The guard next to the pivot was the "inside guard" and the guard between him and the other tackle was the "outside guard."

Even in the early use of the T-formation with the balanced line, the center was still refered to as the pivot. It was probabl yin the mid 1950s when the t0Formation was used universally that the position became known as the center.
Also of note with football cards in the ‘50s  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2019 8:52 am : link
was the designation of “back” whether a S or a CB. Right End and Left end Right halfback, Left Halfback..In the early ‘60s (I believe) Flanker was introduced.
Paul Brown introcuced the flanker position  
truebluelarry : 7/4/2019 9:49 am : link
when he moved Dub Jones from one of the halfback positions out wide but off the line. I'm not exactly sure when the term caught on though.
Don’t recall that but with Paul Brown,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2019 10:30 am : link
nothing surprises me. Talking about a HC being way ahead of his time.

Randomly, two names in those earlier years pop into my head as regards the term, “Flanker.” Gifford and Pete Retzlaff.
And Tommy McDonald  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2019 10:35 am : link
.
Paul Bown - the father of modern football  
truebluelarry : 7/4/2019 11:03 am : link
Watch this film of the 1947 AAFC Championship Game against the Yankees at Yankee Stadium. The Browns operate from the Paul Brown revolutionary T-Formation that everyone would copy and run as their base offense in less than 10 years time. Dub Jones is still a halfback most of the time, sometimes he goes in motion to teh slot, once in a while you will see him set up in what would become the flanker position. The Yankees attack formation was the Single Wing - Buddy Young is #76.

The Browns just seem to be a step faster than the Yeankees on every snap of the ball, and Cleveland's defense was fantastic.

Schematically, the Browns were 25 years ahead of everybody else. Brown went way beyond the Halas T-formation in just 5 years and preceded what Bill Walsh would do by 2 generations (in football time, of course).

The men in motion, timing patterns, coordinated route concepts, center screens to the fullback (Motley was a terror on those) and Otto Graham was the perfect triggerman for this offense. Graham played both ways in the AAFC, but played offense only after the merger in 1950.

Brown also pioneered the middle lineback position with Bill Willis the middle guard, who he often had set up in a two-point stance over the center. Willis didn't set at full MLB depth so he wasn't a true MLB, but this is where it started. Halas caught on and did similar things with Bill George. In 1956 Tom Landry and Sam Huff perfected the idea and the 4-3 remains the base defense for most teams in pro ball over 60 years later.
Browns at Yankees 1947 AAFC Championship - ( New Window )
I have to correct myself on one point,  
truebluelarry : 7/4/2019 11:09 am : link
Dub Jones was not on the Browns in 1947, he played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Jones joined Cleveland in 1948.
Very cool stuff  
MadPlaid : 7/4/2019 11:30 am : link
Thank you for sharing as always
RE: Paul Brown introcuced the flanker position  
Cool Down : 7/4/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14491607 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
when he moved Dub Jones from one of the halfback positions out wide but off the line. I'm not exactly sure when the term caught on though.


Wasn't the "Flanker" also called the "Wingback" and the
formation called the"Winged T", and in later years called the "Pro Set", at least by the announcers on the Radio and TV?
RE: Paul Bown - the father of modern football  
Cool Down : 7/4/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14491671 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
Watch this film of the 1947 AAFC Championship Game against the Yankees at Yankee Stadium. The Browns operate from the Paul Brown revolutionary T-Formation that everyone would copy and run as their base offense in less than 10 years time. Dub Jones is still a halfback most of the time, sometimes he goes in motion to teh slot, once in a while you will see him set up in what would become the flanker position. The Yankees attack formation was the Single Wing - Buddy Young is #76.

I remember watching that game on TV. Otto Graham passed the Yankees dizzy, throwing to Mac Speedie and Dante Lavelli.

The Browns just seem to be a step faster than the Yeankees on every snap of the ball, and Cleveland's defense was fantastic.

Schematically, the Browns were 25 years ahead of everybody else. Brown went way beyond the Halas T-formation in just 5 years and preceded what Bill Walsh would do by 2 generations (in football time, of course).

The men in motion, timing patterns, coordinated route concepts, center screens to the fullback (Motley was a terror on those) and Otto Graham was the perfect triggerman for this offense. Graham played both ways in the AAFC, but played offense only after the merger in 1950.

Brown also pioneered the middle lineback position with Bill Willis the middle guard, who he often had set up in a two-point stance over the center. Willis didn't set at full MLB depth so he wasn't a true MLB, but this is where it started. Halas caught on and did similar things with Bill George. In 1956 Tom Landry and Sam Huff perfected the idea and the 4-3 remains the base defense for most teams in pro ball over 60 years later. Browns at Yankees 1947 AAFC Championship - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Paul Brown introcuced the flanker position  
truebluelarry : 7/4/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14491735 Cool Down said:
Quote:

Wasn't the "Flanker" also called the "Wingback" and the
formation called the"Winged T", and in later years called the "Pro Set", at least by the announcers on the Radio and TV?


No, they weren't he same. The wingback lined up right off the hip of the end. The double wing - where Sammy Baugh excelled with Washington - had one on each side.

Its true, if you split the wingback out he lines up esentially how the flanker does, but that's not how the evolution occurred. The flanker was one of the two halfbacks in the T-Formation.

Yes, the Wing-T was something of a hybrid of the two. The QB was under center and had a HB and FB behind him, and a wingback off the hip of the TE. In modern times, you could envision the H-Back as being analgous to the wingback in some sets.
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