With Colin Kaepernick again pursuing the sins of the public, can we get a list of offensive items and references I need to avoid?
When Betsy Fucking Ross is knitting symbols of oppression, I'm assuming there has to be some history we can keep referencing without pissing off those who claim to be for "free speech".
I'd play God Bless America in tribute, but that makes me a Nazi-loving stooge. I might even offer up some nickels and dollar bills to give to the cause, but those pieces of money are tarnished by slave owning scum.
Can I get some ground rules for how not to piss off the serially ruffled??
Statistical tendencies: ( doubt it then you do the homework)
1) Families have a much higher rate of staying together
2) Socially and religiously conservative
3) Children have a higher percentage chance of being raised in a two parent religious home
4) Less likely to use cigarettes, be overweight and drink...leading to a safer less costly health system for all. As a total population, they are less likely to be drug users.
5) Used to be evenly divided between Dems and Republicans
6) Work and work hard at jobs many will not take. Many families have two full time workers.
7) Tend to be pro-life and anti welfare.
All tendencies you would like to see more of in America. Or do you want more of other values ?
Don't debate...self educate. Look up the data on the social beliefs and tendencies of actual latin cultures.
Does not mean I am in favor of unrestricted immigration or not holding to our laws. ( btw we all to know that the border crossings are not the main source of illegal immigration? that's the coastline not the border). Does not mean I am in favor of more immigration. Im not.
But don't take my word for it. Please go research the question. Its just information. We all do better with more information
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In comment 14492815 christian said:
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5- For those who have a problem with this country- What is there about Mexico and Central America that we should be trying to emulate by making their cultures a larger and larger percentage of our population?
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't mean culture, and meant something less patently xenophobic at best, and down right bigoted at worst with this comment.
How about you don't worry about what I meant and just answer the question?
Pushy and racist -- that's a winning combination.
Given it's my culture that's so objectionable to you, I'm probably too biased of a source on the matter.
But just a friendly heads up, y'all have already let too many of us in, so you'd probably really start preparing for more and more of this culture you disdain.
As white American population growth stagnates, we're growing just fine. We're the largest growing section of the population, and as white America in the coming decades dips below the majority line, we're right there ready to exceed a third of the population.
Good thing you're already rooting against the women's national soccer team, it'll prepare you for your soon to come all Latin US men's team. And many other US teams, and institutions that will be progressively more and more Latin with all that culture.
You think you know me, but you don't know me at all. I love legal immigrants, I even sometimes cry when I hear their stories on TV. I dislike illegal immigration, as do, btw, most people of "your culture" who are going through the process of coming here legally. I don't have a disdain for Mexican/central American culture. Neither do I admire it. I believe strongly in the American experiment. I believe in the melting pot and not the salad bowl. I'm as fine with Latinos being on U.S. soccer and baseball teams as I am with Canadians being on hockey teams. I value talent and exceptionalism, both in sports and in immigration policy. If the Mexican and central American cultures were so great, one would think with see immigrants flocking in that direction, but we don't. Yet, I believe there are many, many people from those cultures who would be great assets to this country. I think as a sovereign nation we should be able to pick and choose those individuals. Again, you haven't answered my question. I'm always willing to learn.
Sorry, I could only go by what the post seemed like it was saying.
My position is much closer to yours. My only concern is that in the name of policy and politics we are losing sight of the humans who do not know and leave in desperation for our border.
We assume that what we are doing is a deterrent to more coming across. Most small Central American and lower Valley or Yucatan villages I remember do not have more than a feew TVs and news is not the draw ( Music or sports programming) so I think these folks have a dream of a better life and are prey to a variation of smuggler/trafficers.
I don't think they are criminals or trying to be illegals. Criminals would try to get in a safer and easier way ( and they do).
just imo. Take care Bill. Thanks for the clarifying post
What do you even mean by culture? You do realize all of those excellent individuals you'd like to invite into your country bring the same culture as those you'd rather not have? That legal immigrants bring largely the same customs, foods, art, language, stories, and practices as aslym seekers and undocumented immigrants.
Again, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt you're just misusing the word culture, and mean something different.
Maybe you mean government and socioeconomic structures? -- Governance and economies are very broken in Latin America (in many countries in part thanks to the US).
Maybe you mean law enforcement and the justice system -- those institutions are very corrupt and broken in Latin America. Specifically in relation to drug and drug trafficking, which again, the primary demand comes from white Americans.
There are many institutions broken in that part of the world -- that is why people are feeling and people are not flocking. It has nothing to do with culture.
And just for reference, the "desirable" immigrants -- educated, industrialists, the wealthy -- these are the architects of those instructions. That might be the group you actually might not want in your country.
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In comment 14491269 section125 said:
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Ah, shit has changed. Do you really want to go back through history and complain about every wrong humans have done throughout history to each other?
That's not what's happening. He's not protesting the flag in 1776, he's protesting it in 2019. It means something different to people today than it does then.
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Problem is with "your" logic is that every US flag up until 1863 should be protested because slavery was legal until then.
Where am I advocating protesting anything?
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I think the deal with the Betsy Ross flag is that some basically white high school once waved it at a Black high school during a basketball game and now it is viewed as a symbol of racism..
That story by itself shows that, to some, the flag is a symbol of white supremacy. You just proved Fatman wrong.
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We will never get past racism until people vent at the people who are the racists and not grouping all others with them. It is like Antifa beating up people and then claiming those people are hateful, while they commit felony assault and battery and nobody with legal authority goes after them.
The alt-right drove a car into a crowd of people and killed someone. Antifa poured a milkshake on an admitted Nazi.
You really want to side with the alt-right?
Yes and the KKK guy was arrested and going to spend his life in jail.
But, you know it is ok to beat up some journalists because you don't like his paper? These thugs are running around beating people and the milkshake is cement. Let me throw a pound or two of liquid cement in a cup/glass at the back of your head and then tell me how you like it and that is ok. They didn't pour a milkshake on a Nazi. After they beat the guy up and stole his camera, they threw at least one 16 oz glass full of liquid cement at his head.
And because some group latches on to a perfectly ordinary symbol, doesn't mean the symbol should be associated with them. When you give these asswipes credence you make their case and encourage them.
There is no common sense anymore. That is the problem. And Fats is correct, we have to stop being offended by everything we disagree with.
The problem here is who are the "we" you are talking about? All of us? Or just some of us? How many does it take as a percentage of "all" (that is, how big is the "some") to get to something at least approximating "nearly all of us" instead of just "most" of us so that we know who we are talking about when we say "we"? If it's only "most" of us, or, worse, something that at best is only a "majority" of us, it is very hard for any symbol (flag, say) to gain recognition as having a single, universal meaning or to insist that it should be regarded as having that meaning to "all." It can't and won't.
Personally, I'd prefer our flag, including the old Colonial flag, to have and stand for one universal meaning for all Americans. And I loathe those who bring up nonsense that degrades my flag or who mistreat it. But I cannot prevent either behavior. Annoying, but this is America.
Statistical tendencies: ( doubt it then you do the homework)
1) Families have a much higher rate of staying together
2) Socially and religiously conservative
3) Children have a higher percentage chance of being raised in a two parent religious home
4) Less likely to use cigarettes, be overweight and drink...leading to a safer less costly health system for all. As a total population, they are less likely to be drug users.
5) Used to be evenly divided between Dems and Republicans
6) Work and work hard at jobs many will not take. Many families have two full time workers.
7) Tend to be pro-life and anti welfare.
All tendencies you would like to see more of in America. Or do you want more of other values ?
Don't debate...self educate. Look up the data on the social beliefs and tendencies of actual latin cultures.
Does not mean I am in favor of unrestricted immigration or not holding to our laws. ( btw we all to know that the border crossings are not the main source of illegal immigration? that's the coastline not the border). Does not mean I am in favor of more immigration. Im not.
But don't take my word for it. Please go research the question. Its just information. We all do better with more information
bill2, thanks for your input and I'll take it at face value. It seems like many of the points you make are due to a high percentage of practicing Catholics. That will change for many as they move here out of poverty. It confuses me that if they basically have these conservative values, why are the Democrats so eager for them to come here? I don't doubt that most are good people and hard workers. My vision of American exceptionalism is based on how we have led the world in science and innovation, much of it produced by legal immigrants. We are in a battle now to maintain that position and our lifestyles into the future. I would gear our immigration policy towards bringing in those kinds of contributors. You can teach people to do many jobs. You can't teach people to be super smart. When we train them in our schools, keep them here.
What do you even mean by culture? You do realize all of those excellent individuals you'd like to invite into your country bring the same culture as those you'd rather not have? That legal immigrants bring largely the same customs, foods, art, language, stories, and practices as aslym seekers and undocumented immigrants.
Again, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt you're just misusing the word culture, and mean something different.
Maybe you mean government and socioeconomic structures? -- Governance and economies are very broken in Latin America (in many countries in part thanks to the US).
Maybe you mean law enforcement and the justice system -- those institutions are very corrupt and broken in Latin America. Specifically in relation to drug and drug trafficking, which again, the primary demand comes from white Americans.
There are many institutions broken in that part of the world -- that is why people are feeling and people are not flocking. It has nothing to do with culture.
And just for reference, the "desirable" immigrants -- educated, industrialists, the wealthy -- these are the architects of those instructions. That might be the group you actually might not want in your country.
I'll use this definition of culture "the customs, arts, social institutions, and intellectual achievements of a particular nation"
You've responded to me 3 times and you've made ad hominen attacks in each. I like your style, lol. My idea of a discussion is that it should seek to prove who is right, not who is an asshole. Being an asshole and being right are not mutually exclusive and vv. I'm sorry if you took any of my comments personally, they weren't meant to be. I does show why it's silly for some to think that we can have an "honest discussion about race" as the politicians and media like to call it. I'm getting too vested in this thread, so I'm going to drop out here.
But, assimilation has to be a goal IMO unifying people as one nation.
I think what Teddy Roosevelt said in 1907 (posted below) still rings true today and if the Italians, Irish, Germans, Jews, Polish, etc. were expected to live up to this, I don't see why it would be racist to expect Central or South American or Mexican immigrants to live up to this as well.
Christian, it seems like you have no desire or intent to and you throw out the racist label at Bill in UT and then hide behind "I'm a minority, I can't be racist" passive aggression.
Look in the mirror buddy.
The USA to work needs unity, of course not every single person will ever be unified, but comments like yours that basically say "we outbreed you so we will outnumber you and force our culture down your throat" and that is about as Un-American as you can get. The American culture IS a melting pot, sure it's been dominated by european/white heritage for all of the countries existence, but if people shared the goal of becoming "America" then it won't matter where anyone comes from, the result will be beautiful greatness. You can see the influence already in America of the many cultures and countries of the immigrants who live here - in pop culture, food, music, etc. and it's a great thing.
But instead you choose to divide.
The Teddy Roosevelt quote IMO is what Making America great again is about not xenophobia, not racism, not white nationalism, but the spirit of we don't care where you're from, we want you to be here and be one of us. I don't agree with the language part as a condition for entry/becoming a citizen, but I do think it should be a goal and felt that same way with my ancestors speaking Italian, or whatever language they spoke.
I wasn't intending to be attacking of you -- I'm being genuine. That's a xenophobic and racist perspective, and as a Mexican American, I really don't believe you and I would get along well. I won't engage you in the future.
The notion you feel it's appropriate to question what contribution my race and people have made to this country and will make to this country -- might a good place to start if you are really curious as to why you might not be able to have a peaceful conversation about race.
Statistical tendencies: ( doubt it then you do the homework)
1) Families have a much higher rate of staying together
2) Socially and religiously conservative
3) Children have a higher percentage chance of being raised in a two parent religious home
4) Less likely to use cigarettes, be overweight and drink...leading to a safer less costly health system for all. As a total population, they are less likely to be drug users.
5) Used to be evenly divided between Dems and Republicans
6) Work and work hard at jobs many will not take. Many families have two full time workers.
7) Tend to be pro-life and anti welfare.
All tendencies you would like to see more of in America. Or do you want more of other values ?
Don't debate...self educate. Look up the data on the social beliefs and tendencies of actual latin cultures.
Does not mean I am in favor of unrestricted immigration or not holding to our laws. ( btw we all to know that the border crossings are not the main source of illegal immigration? that's the coastline not the border). Does not mean I am in favor of more immigration. Im not.
But don't take my word for it. Please go research the question. Its just information. We all do better with more information
This is a fabulous post. I truly believe that most americans have no clue what Mexican or Central American culture is. Hell, we assume Canadians are just like us mainly because they are white, drink beer and seem affable. Our cultures aren't the same.
For the most part Americans don't seek to learn other cultures, we don't seek to learn other languages. We try to push our way as the best. In a recent thread about the World Cup, we were called Ugly Americans for celebrating. We're Ugly Americans because we don't expand our understandings. It saddens me when somebody thinks Mexico is a country of drug cartels and people fleeing to the US just to become a drain on resources. The majority of Mexicans I've been friends with came to this country at a much higher standing in their country, to work and better not just their lives, but their families lives. Some of the most unselfish people ever. You think an American doctor would go to another place to be a waiter, dishwasher or line cook? You think a former business owner would go to a foreign land and work construction and landscaping?
People can want stricter immigration laws, but they don't have to do it by making sweeping generalizations about a culture. That's a problem we face today.
Assimilation is a critical component of migration. It's a goal and aspiration for the vast majority of immigrants who come to this country. Learning English and learning to be American is both necessary and desired.
My family in particular when coming here wanted nothing more than to be Americans, made great effort and take great pride in America, fought for America, succeeded as Americans and still maintain the proud and dignified culture of Mexico. We are Mexican Americans.
Assimilation does not, nor has ever meant questioning the merits of the culture from where one migrates, nor an aversion to that culture contributing to the multicultural makeup of this great country.
Im not sure that it is as true now as before though. And its nt cultural r racial but t instead to generational. The people who brought us richness were legal immigrants who came here and, and this holds true for the older generations f established people as well, who didnt ask for anything but who not not followed the rules but used them as well. Work two jobs while going to school, rate song themselves up, etc.
Its not just the masses on the borders who arent coming through channels but the endemic culture which is progressively rotting.
Assimilation is a critical component of migration. It's a goal and aspiration for the vast majority of immigrants who come to this country. Learning English and learning to be American is both necessary and desired.
My family in particular when coming here wanted nothing more than to be Americans, made great effort and take great pride in America, fought for America, succeeded as Americans and still maintain the proud and dignified culture of Mexico. We are Mexican Americans.
Assimilation does not, nor has ever meant questioning the merits of the culture from where one migrates, nor an aversion to that culture contributing to the multicultural makeup of this great country.
If I misunderstood, I apologize. sometimes context is hard to glean from the written word. I got that impression from your 9:55 post.
It seems like you are using Latino reproduction rate as a threat.
Seems just as racist as anything anyone else posted in this thread.
It shouldn't matter.
There is the reality that the Latin American population is significant and growing in this country, even if immigration were completely frozen from that part of the world.
If there is a strong aversion to Latin American culture, and a view the culture is undesirable, it's a big problem to be addressed. Personally I find the question extremely offensive, and intimates Latin Americans are less than, because their culture is not admirable. That's a heck of a statement.
I genuinely wanted to clarify if that was the intent of the statement, and it appears it was.
Did Jewish people drop the influence of their religion or societies? Any other catholics dump their religion when they got here in large number starting in 1820?
Are many folks in Minnesota Lutheran to this day because they chucked all that when they got here in 1840?
And lastly....are conservative family based cultures religion based or often found in agrarian based economies which requires hard work from all around them and from all generations ?? Careful with the answer. The correlation is strongest based on the type of economy.
Lastly, IQ is not race distributed. So the clich of hard working Asians being smarter is just that...a clich. Notice once again a farm based all hands on deck working environment instead of a religious correlation between willingness to work.
For a larger larger view lets realize that without technology gains that lead to greater productivity ( as occurred with the conversion to steam energy, then with electricity distribution, then agricultural gains, then harnessing oil and gas, then telmcom, then computers; when elites take too much and the pie is not growing for others...people begin to move around. For their children. Millenia old phenomenon.
Can we afford to bring in people when our middle is not growing? Is it our problem that they have worse problems?
The issue is not about their culture. The issue is we may not be able to afford a baby boom not producing ( a really bad generation in my opinion), a middle stagnating, an elite without answers beyond themselves and also take on assimilating many other folks.
We cant assimilate many more until we are more integrated. imo.
Probably lasted because of the generic thread title. Mods probably are unaware. If Kaepernick had been inserted in the thread title, I'm sure it would be gone.
Without migration from Latin America, population stagnation is all but settled in the next 50 years, and population erosion likely to follow.
It's also important to look at college participation rates for immigrants and 1st and 2nd generation Latin Americans, and the outsized proportion to their population as an indicator of upward mobility and economic participation.
BillL. There is the wit I remember!
BillL. There is the wit I remember!
Bingo. There's a good economic case to be made for steady migration across all classes to fuel a multi-class economy that consumes, grows, and moves upward.
Targeting one stratum, particularly educated or mid-education immigrants, runs the risk of pitting them against what's left of the mobile middle class for better paying jobs.
I'm keeping an eye on the real job market for home health care and aid, child care and lower skill construction (if we ever get around to infrastructure) -- typical landing spots for immigrant labor.
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In comment 14491186 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Banning dollar bills, nickels and references to most of our Founding Fathers shall be deemed verboten....
Are the founding fathers sacred? You sound insane.
Is the family of Kamala Harris sacred? Seems so since she's apparently given a pass despite her family owning slaves.
Snopes reports as a current meme on right-wing sites. This claim has yet to be verified.
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In comment 14491190 adamg said:
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In comment 14491186 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Banning dollar bills, nickels and references to most of our Founding Fathers shall be deemed verboten....
Are the founding fathers sacred? You sound insane.
Is the family of Kamala Harris sacred? Seems so since she's apparently given a pass despite her family owning slaves.
Snopes reports as a current meme on right-wing sites. This claim has yet to be verified.
I dont think anyone should care even if it was true. I think its sick that someone should be held accountable for what an ancestor...or even a sibling...did, no matter how reprehensible the deed may have been. That in and f itself is indecent and inhuman.
Sounds like a plan. Companies could keep families in indentured servitude for generations.
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In comment 14491200 rnargi said:
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In comment 14491190 adamg said:
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In comment 14491186 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Banning dollar bills, nickels and references to most of our Founding Fathers shall be deemed verboten....
Are the founding fathers sacred? You sound insane.
Is the family of Kamala Harris sacred? Seems so since she's apparently given a pass despite her family owning slaves.
Snopes reports as a current meme on right-wing sites. This claim has yet to be verified.
I dont think anyone should care even if it was true. I think its sick that someone should be held accountable for what an ancestor...or even a sibling...did, no matter how reprehensible the deed may have been. That in and f itself is indecent and inhuman.
I agree completely. I only posted this because too many here are just blindly accepting info that may not be accurate, but which fits their agendas. Hell, we're all susceptible to preconceived notions, but some try to0 find out more about such things than just shoveling them out into the swill trough.
Yeah, really? I can't vouch for Jamaica Global Online, the source of this story, only to say I'm also including a link to Politico which has a story saying that Donald Harris, Kamala's father, has sent material to Jamaica Global.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/20/kamala-harris-father-pot-1176805
Link - ( New Window )
It's as unbiased a source as is available. Should this assertion prove to be true, they'll acknowledge it, as they have with numerous other issues.
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as an unbiased source?
Yeah, really? I can't vouch for Jamaica Global Online, the source of this story, only to say I'm also including a link to Politico which has a story saying that Donald Harris, Kamala's father, has sent material to Jamaica Global.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/20/kamala-harris-father-pot-1176805 Link - ( New Window )
And no one ever tries to burnish their bloodline, ever, right? It may or may not be true, but hold off on spouting it until it's verified.
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as an unbiased source?
It's as unbiased a source as is available. Should this assertion prove to be true, they'll acknowledge it, as they have with numerous other issues.
Like others I don't care about this issue even a little, but snopes will give it a partially true or mostly false if they can't completely find a way to say completely false/true- whatever it takes to mostly fit their narrative.
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Its sad people look up to him.
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In comment 14493291 pjcas18 said:
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as an unbiased source?
It's as unbiased a source as is available. Should this assertion prove to be true, they'll acknowledge it, as they have with numerous other issues.
Like others I don't care about this issue even a little, but snopes will give it a partially true or mostly false if they can't completely find a way to say completely false/true- whatever it takes to mostly fit their narrative.
Appears like it doesn't fit your narrative, but that's the issue I take issue with.
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In comment 14493300 BMac said:
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In comment 14493291 pjcas18 said:
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as an unbiased source?
It's as unbiased a source as is available. Should this assertion prove to be true, they'll acknowledge it, as they have with numerous other issues.
Like others I don't care about this issue even a little, but snopes will give it a partially true or mostly false if they can't completely find a way to say completely false/true- whatever it takes to mostly fit their narrative.
Appears like it doesn't fit your narrative, but that's the issue I take issue with.
Yes. My narrative is wanting unbiased facts, so if that's what you have issue with then that's you.
Here is one article about snopes fact checking and their spin from a third, unaffiliated, party.
While I do acknowledge knowing what is fact vs opinion vs made up is really hard these days, I'm not sure snopes should be your end all be all.
Link - ( New Window )
Careful tough guy those champagne coolies will sneak up on you.
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Everyone drink each time pjcas says narrative!
Careful tough guy those champagne coolies will sneak up on you.
He graduated from Zimas?
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In comment 14493328 Chris in Philly said:
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Everyone drink each time pjcas says narrative!
Careful tough guy those champagne coolies will sneak up on you.
He graduated from Zimas?
Bartles and James for the win, baby!
At my age I'm just enjoying life.
Good to see B2 and a lot of others in on this discussion.
The term he needs to start using is minority not contrarian. Much of the idealism of our country is based on the concept that the dissenting or minority opinion has a voice and needs to be heard. Unfortunately it took some time to become applicable to every gender, race, color and creed.
Good and needed change doesnt happen overnight...it takes time.
I guess it does on BBI too...
The colonial flag has exponentially more good than bad in representing what occurred during its time and circumstances. But was there bad during the colonial period and amongst its colonists?..of course. Have the legacies and descendants of those colonists continued to develop and become more good over time?...of course.
How great it must be for CK to wake up and live in the world of 2019 and enjoy the good and poke fingers at all that is or was bad...
Of course, the last couple posts might try and steer it a different direction, especially since the guy using a term "chucklehead" is one of the biggest ones of all.
Fucking clown.
Of course, the last couple posts might try and steer it a different direction, especially since the guy using a term "chucklehead" is one of the biggest ones of all.
Fucking clown.
Hey, hes adding to his repotoire.
Of course, the last couple posts might try and steer it a different direction, especially since the guy using a term "chucklehead" is one of the biggest ones of all.
Fucking clown.
Oh its off course now...why?
Damn those contrarians...they shore do mez things up
Hey, hes adding to his repotoire.
Geez, I even added more than one pithy comment. Several sentences this time just for you.
You sure are tough to please...