With Colin Kaepernick again pursuing the sins of the public, can we get a list of offensive items and references I need to avoid?
When Betsy Fucking Ross is knitting symbols of oppression, I'm assuming there has to be some history we can keep referencing without pissing off those who claim to be for "free speech".
I'd play God Bless America in tribute, but that makes me a Nazi-loving stooge. I might even offer up some nickels and dollar bills to give to the cause, but those pieces of money are tarnished by slave owning scum.
Can I get some ground rules for how not to piss off the serially ruffled??
Ah, shit has changed. Do you really want to go back through history and complain about every wrong humans have done throughout history to each other?
That's not what's happening. He's not protesting the flag in 1776, he's protesting it in 2019. It means something different to people today than it does then.
Where am I advocating protesting anything?
That story by itself shows that, to some, the flag is a symbol of white supremacy. You just proved Fatman wrong.
The alt-right drove a car into a crowd of people and killed someone. Antifa poured a milkshake on an admitted Nazi.
You really want to side with the alt-right?
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In comment 14491219 rnargi said:
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Are you guilty of what?
Being proud of my family's adopted country that has provided me and my family the equal opportunity to succeed even if I didn't quite achieve an equal outcome as others?
Sounds like a rhetorical question... lol
It's not. There are 1.5M people enslaved in the Congo and Nigeria. But here we're outraged by a flag that just happened to fly in the times of US slavery 200 years ago in this country. Am i guilty or should I laugh at the continued lunacy of the aggrieved class that continues to blame every single person who doesn't look like them for something that happened before most of those people's families had even immigrated here?
You think you're saying something that you're not saying. Are you guilty of what???
Are you guilty of owning slaves? Obviously not. So what are you asking?
American indians and free black farmers owned thousands of slaves also. BLACK slaves. Over 15,000.
I only wrote black in capitals because you did.
The founding father's believed slavery would end in a relatively short time period, obviously they were wrong.
I put (generally) in quotations because I knew some supercilious nerd was going to say, "BLACKS OWNED SLAVES TOO". As if that's an important point...
Well fuck them. Like U2 taking back Helter Skelter from Manson, take it back and use it for good.
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Ah, shit has changed. Do you really want to go back through history and complain about every wrong humans have done throughout history to each other?
That's not what's happening. He's not protesting the flag in 1776, he's protesting it in 2019. It means something different to people today than it does then.
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Problem is with "your" logic is that every US flag up until 1863 should be protested because slavery was legal until then.
Where am I advocating protesting anything?
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I think the deal with the Betsy Ross flag is that some basically white high school once waved it at a Black high school during a basketball game and now it is viewed as a symbol of racism..
That story by itself shows that, to some, the flag is a symbol of white supremacy. You just proved Fatman wrong.
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We will never get past racism until people vent at the people who are the racists and not grouping all others with them. It is like Antifa beating up people and then claiming those people are hateful, while they commit felony assault and battery and nobody with legal authority goes after them.
The alt-right drove a car into a crowd of people and killed someone. Antifa poured a milkshake on an admitted Nazi.
You really want to side with the alt-right?
Why does calling out Antifa mean you support the alt-right? This isnt a zero-sum game. Both are worthless, backwards groups of jackasses. And your characterization of Antifa minimizes their bullshit.
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American indians and free black farmers owned thousands of slaves also. BLACK slaves. Over 15,000.
I only wrote black in capitals because you did.
The founding father's believed slavery would end in a relatively short time period, obviously they were wrong.
I put (generally) in quotations because I knew some supercilious nerd was going to say, "BLACKS OWNED SLAVES TOO". As if that's an important point...
why isn't it an important point?
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Ah, shit has changed. Do you really want to go back through history and complain about every wrong humans have done throughout history to each other?
That's not what's happening. He's not protesting the flag in 1776, he's protesting it in 2019. It means something different to people today than it does then.
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Problem is with "your" logic is that every US flag up until 1863 should be protested because slavery was legal until then.
Where am I advocating protesting anything?
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I think the deal with the Betsy Ross flag is that some basically white high school once waved it at a Black high school during a basketball game and now it is viewed as a symbol of racism..
That story by itself shows that, to some, the flag is a symbol of white supremacy. You just proved Fatman wrong.
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We will never get past racism until people vent at the people who are the racists and not grouping all others with them. It is like Antifa beating up people and then claiming those people are hateful, while they commit felony assault and battery and nobody with legal authority goes after them.
The alt-right drove a car into a crowd of people and killed someone. Antifa poured a milkshake on an admitted Nazi.
You really want to side with the alt-right?
"the alt-right drive a car" holy shit dude, take a break for a while.
you're showing your ass here. and it's not pretty.
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American indians and free black farmers owned thousands of slaves also. BLACK slaves. Over 15,000.
I only wrote black in capitals because you did.
The founding father's believed slavery would end in a relatively short time period, obviously they were wrong.
I put (generally) in quotations because I knew some supercilious nerd was going to say, "BLACKS OWNED SLAVES TOO". As if that's an important point...
It's not? Why? Shouldn't ALL involved in the slave trade, regardless of color, Creed, or religious beliefs be held accountable equally? Or does that also just simply not fit the agenda?
Ricky Gervais said it well (and took a ton of shit for it), Carlin alive today would be great. he'd call out the hypocrisy of the religious right the lunacy of the far left and make those on the sidelines laugh at both.
Gervais tweeted this out after the Portland incident last weekend:
Ricky Gervais
Verified account @rickygervais
Jun 30
It's interesting that the people who believe that throwing a milkshake in someone's face shouldn't be considered assault are often the same people who believe that 'saying things' should be.
8:04 AM - 30 Jun 2019
Its kind of hysterical when you consider that if this were actually a fascist country, saying so while engaged in (often violent) protest would earn you a shallow, unmarked grave.
It literally doesn't. But cool take, bro.
Just because you don't know how to use the word literally doesn't mean you have to get butthurt at getting called out about it...
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Ah, shit has changed. Do you really want to go back through history and complain about every wrong humans have done throughout history to each other?
That's not what's happening. He's not protesting the flag in 1776, he's protesting it in 2019. It means something different to people today than it does then.
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Problem is with "your" logic is that every US flag up until 1863 should be protested because slavery was legal until then.
Where am I advocating protesting anything?
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I think the deal with the Betsy Ross flag is that some basically white high school once waved it at a Black high school during a basketball game and now it is viewed as a symbol of racism..
That story by itself shows that, to some, the flag is a symbol of white supremacy. You just proved Fatman wrong.
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We will never get past racism until people vent at the people who are the racists and not grouping all others with them. It is like Antifa beating up people and then claiming those people are hateful, while they commit felony assault and battery and nobody with legal authority goes after them.
The alt-right drove a car into a crowd of people and killed someone. Antifa poured a milkshake on an admitted Nazi.
You really want to side with the alt-right?
Yes and the KKK guy was arrested and going to spend his life in jail.
But, you know it is ok to beat up some journalists because you don't like his paper? These thugs are running around beating people and the milkshake is cement. Let me throw a pound or two of liquid cement in a cup/glass at the back of your head and then tell me how you like it and that is ok. They didn't pour a milkshake on a Nazi. After they beat the guy up and stole his camera, they threw at least one 16 oz glass full of liquid cement at his head.
And because some group latches on to a perfectly ordinary symbol, doesn't mean the symbol should be associated with them. When you give these asswipes credence you make their case and encourage them.
There is no common sense anymore. That is the problem. And Fats is correct, we have to stop being offended by everything we disagree with.
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I love that being Anti-Facist now means, literally, to be a Facist
Its kind of hysterical when you consider that if this were actually a fascist country, saying so while engaged in (often violent) protest would earn you a shallow, unmarked grave.
Yup... shaking my damned head.
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Just because you don't know how to use the word literally doesn't mean you have to get butthurt at getting called out about it...
When you learn what Facsism is, give me a call, bro. Literally.
If I were a brand he wouldn't be my litmus test, but as a functioning adult I wouldn't base a counter argument in any part on Kaepernick being a hypocrite. Two things can be true at once.
There's no right answer when the question is offense. It's silly to me to try and trivialize other's feelings on a symbol as just some other thing "you're" not allowed to use or like.
I tend to think symbols are imbued with power when used to effect an outcome. I also don't run with hate groups so I'm typically surprised when an innocuous symbol has been coopted for hate. That's my take, I get when others have a lower bar.
I kind of get where Kaepernick is coming from, the flag of a nation state that at the time was pretty big into slavery, isn't without some weight for a brand with the intention of being patriotic. There are plenty of other modern patriotic symbols.
Ultimately the public will decide the fait of the symbol, as is always the case. I suspect Betsey is safe from the judgement of history. But it's worth having the conversation even when the outcome, is eh that was nothing.
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I love that being Anti-Facist now means, literally, to be a Facist
It literally doesn't. But cool take, bro.
They check a few of the major boxes, including authoritarianism and suppression of opposing ideals.
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In comment 14491269 section125 said:
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Ah, shit has changed. Do you really want to go back through history and complain about every wrong humans have done throughout history to each other?
That's not what's happening. He's not protesting the flag in 1776, he's protesting it in 2019. It means something different to people today than it does then.
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Problem is with "your" logic is that every US flag up until 1863 should be protested because slavery was legal until then.
Where am I advocating protesting anything?
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I think the deal with the Betsy Ross flag is that some basically white high school once waved it at a Black high school during a basketball game and now it is viewed as a symbol of racism..
That story by itself shows that, to some, the flag is a symbol of white supremacy. You just proved Fatman wrong.
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We will never get past racism until people vent at the people who are the racists and not grouping all others with them. It is like Antifa beating up people and then claiming those people are hateful, while they commit felony assault and battery and nobody with legal authority goes after them.
The alt-right drove a car into a crowd of people and killed someone. Antifa poured a milkshake on an admitted Nazi.
You really want to side with the alt-right?
Why does calling out Antifa mean you support the alt-right? This isnt a zero-sum game. Both are worthless, backwards groups of jackasses. And your characterization of Antifa minimizes their bullshit.
of course, we should condemn all acts of violence that isn't in self defense or protecting somebody else.
It was to mock what we've become. Where offense needs nothing more than a shallow connection. Joe Biden is racist. Kate Smith is racist. The Colonial flag is a symbol of racism. Go through a yearbook for Halloween pics and you can take a career down
When people agree with these ridiculous takes - it just continues the madness.
Use a gay slur these days and you commit career suicide. Mock the cops or make up racism and you get a commercial. Speech hasn't gotten any less harsh - just the people uttering it are different.
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In comment 14491312 rnargi said:
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I love that being Anti-Facist now means, literally, to be a Facist
It literally doesn't. But cool take, bro.
They check a few of the major boxes, including authoritarianism and suppression of opposing ideals.
He apparently has not read the Fascism Manifesto of 1919 and compared their demands to those of Antifa. Or, he's simply employing rules for radicals. I bet it's the former.
Why is it worth having the conversation? If somebody disparaged minorities, religions or promoted other discriminating behaviors against something that wasn't held by the majority - would it be "worth" discussing?
If David Duke claimed a company should boycott or refrain from something is that worthy of "having the conversation". You can skip the answer because you know it is fucking rhetorical.
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In comment 14491326 rnargi said:
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Just because you don't know how to use the word literally doesn't mean you have to get butthurt at getting called out about it...
When you learn what Facsism is, give me a call, bro. Literally.
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In comment 14491327 adamg said:
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In comment 14491326 rnargi said:
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..
Just because you don't know how to use the word literally doesn't mean you have to get butthurt at getting called out about it...
When you learn what Facsism is, give me a call, bro. Literally.
So Obama was a fascist?
Dude, that is simply not true.
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that have been in place since the Clinton administration.
Dude, that is simply not true.
The detention and deportation policies have been in place since 1996. Many of the photos that were initially published were not even from this administration.
That isnt to say i love the current president or dont think their needs to be immigration reform. But theres a current of disingenuousness about the whole thing thats representative of politics and the media as a whole.
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In comment 14491361 j_rud said:
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that have been in place since the Clinton administration.
Dude, that is simply not true.
The detention and deportation policies have been in place since 1996. Many of the photos that were initially published were not even from this administration.
That isnt to say i love the current president or dont think their needs to be immigration reform. But theres a current of disingenuousness about the whole thing thats representative of politics and the media as a whole.
Detention and deportation writ large, yes. But you know damn well that it goes far beyond that now. And none of the photos that have come out recently are old. Come on, man.
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Ultimately the public will decide the fait of the symbol, as is always the case. I suspect Betsey is safe from the judgement of history. But it's worth having the conversation even when the outcome, is eh that was nothing.
Why is it worth having the conversation? If somebody disparaged minorities, religions or promoted other discriminating behaviors against something that wasn't held by the majority - would it be "worth" discussing?
If David Duke claimed a company should boycott or refrain from something is that worthy of "having the conversation". You can skip the answer because you know it is fucking rhetorical.
Oh come big guy, even you should able see there's logical merit in discussing whether the historical flag of a nation that sanctioned slavery could be viewed as insensitive to the ancestors of those enslaved.
And frankly that's why I asked if this was about Kaepernick being a hypocrite or the merit of the debate.
Kaepernick being hypocrite and adults having a reasonable discussion on something he expressed aren't mutually exclusive.
But maybe your purpose for posting isn't a reasonable discussion and just you moaning?
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In comment 14491364 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14491361 j_rud said:
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that have been in place since the Clinton administration.
Dude, that is simply not true.
The detention and deportation policies have been in place since 1996. Many of the photos that were initially published were not even from this administration.
That isnt to say i love the current president or dont think their needs to be immigration reform. But theres a current of disingenuousness about the whole thing thats representative of politics and the media as a whole.
Detention and deportation writ large, yes. But you know damn well that it goes far beyond that now. And none of the photos that have come out recently are old. Come on, man.
Of course it goes beyond that. What we're seeing now is unprecedented. And none of the pictures from the past 72 hours, sure. But the initial outrage, those flames were definitely fanned by outdated images. Its disengenuous. Just like the recent trip down there by various congresswomen. Not to say they dont care, but they're making a photo op out of a situation many of them declined to put more money into. And the recent solutions bandied about by some of the candidates are fucking laughable.
And this isnt even the point of the thread. This only came up bc some clown thought the situation at the border makes us a fascist state. And I took the bait. So Ill respectfully bow out now.
that's an unfair comparison with the age difference.
Under that logic, every flag of this country carries insensitivities. Don't limit it to racism. American Indians should have disdain for the flag. The current flag presided over a segregated part of the country.
You know what is logical? Having the wherewithall to know when a symbol carries a negative connotation vs. just being present when times were different. There's no logic in saying the Colonial flag represented racism.
The swastika didn't become a symbol of hate until it was actively used by a group promoting hate.
You are so eager to take the opposite view that now you've deluded yourself into thinking there's logic here. I'd say you should know better, but sadly, you're doing this with the full intention of trying to legitimize the argument.
Logical merit has to be tied to action - not rummaging through history looking to tie things to faux outrage
what's also new is the level people are being told to care about this. coin operated lemmings.
when the former president said we're a nation of laws and people can't come here illegally or they will be sent home, and they were detained in caged facilities it was not xenophobic or racist, but when the current president administration says and does the same thing it is.
people are so easily manipulated.
just like they are being manipulated now by suddenly saying the Betsy Ross flag is offensive. It's not, just some people are anti-America. If the Betsy Ross flag is offensive, every American flag is offensive. Jim Crow was still enforced with the current flag and people alive today can legitimately have a connection to the Jim Crow era.
So instead of viewing the flag as a positive symbol, one that helped free slaves from slavery or provide economic opportunity it's easier and more en vogue to play the victim.
What I don't agree with, is just because Kaepernick is the face of the issue, the issue isn't worth talking through.
Again, Kaepernick being a hypocrite doesn't make him immediately wrong.
Your bar for offense is pretty high, and intellectually sound. There's a fair case to be made that a symbol really needs to have been weaponized to be subtracted from the public.
But there's a rich debate in many nations on the appropriateness of using flags from less proud times for contemporary patriotism, this isn't some wild out-of-nowhere stance.
What contemporary patriotism is the Colonial flag used for? It had more visibility as part of Obama's inauguration than any other time recently
Trying to posture there is some intellectual discussion here is patently absurd.
It is a non sequitor. You are more apt to see it on the cover of SchoolHouse Rock than for any nefarious purposes.
If there is going to be "rich debate" on the subject, it will only be in the guise of faux outrage bandied about by faux intellectuals
So Obama was a fascist?
Name calling isn't helpful. No Obama wasn't a "fascist". But I wasn't a fan of his either.
What? There's no new emphasis being placed on eliminating child sex trafficking. That was one of only 2 reasons children were separated in the previous administration. Whereas the current administration's first AG said that children separation is to be used as a deterrent to people crossing the border illegally with children regardless of whether the children are theirs or there's no evidence of abuse. People claiming asylum being detained indefinitely wasn't the policy of the previous administration. And the idea that people who have no legal right to vote are being used as "a voting base" is asinine.
I hate political threads on BBI, especially ones borne of flimsy stupidity like this one. But I had to respond to this fundamentally untrue comment.
I don't think anyone is outraged faux or otherwise.
You realize that those people in those "concentration" camps came willingly and can leave to go home anytime they want. Kind of the exact opposite of actual Concentration camps. You know that.
Right?
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children or illegals in cages is not new. Having one device that serves as a sink and toilet is not new. what's new is the emphasis being placed on eliminating child sex trafficking and what's new is using illegals as a voting base aka a political tool.
What? There's no new emphasis being placed on eliminating child sex trafficking. That was one of only 2 reasons children were separated in the previous administration. Whereas the current administration's first AG said that children separation is to be used as a deterrent to people crossing the border illegally with children regardless of whether the children are theirs or there's no evidence of abuse. People claiming asylum being detained indefinitely wasn't the policy of the previous administration. And the idea that people who have no legal right to vote are being used as "a voting base" is asinine.
I hate political threads on BBI, especially ones borne of flimsy stupidity like this one. But I had to respond to this fundamentally untrue comment.
"According to the Washington Examiner: With California leading the way, human trafficking, especially in the sex and labor trades, jumped again last year and has surged 842 percent since the creation of a federally-supported hotline for victims. Reported cases of human trafficking continue to increase each year. In 2017, 8,759 cases were reported to the National Human Trafficking Hotline and BeFree Textline. This number compares to 7,737 reported cases in 2016. The overall figures represent an 842 percent increase over the 10 years Polaris has operated the Hotline, said the hotline operator which receives federal funding.
Through late June 2018, human trafficking arrests for the year approached 6,000. Thats nearly double the year prior (which itself marked an all-time high), and triple the year before that. Human trafficking-related arrests never topped 2,000 under the Obama administration and were a paltry 300 in 2010."
"According to the Washington Examiner: With California leading the way, human trafficking, especially in the sex and labor trades, jumped again last year and has surged 842 percent since the creation of a federally-supported hotline for victims. Reported cases of human trafficking continue to increase each year. In 2017, 8,759 cases were reported to the National Human Trafficking Hotline and BeFree Textline. This number compares to 7,737 reported cases in 2016. The overall figures represent an 842 percent increase over the 10 years Polaris has operated the Hotline, said the hotline operator which receives federal funding.
Through late June 2018, human trafficking arrests for the year approached 6,000. Thats nearly double the year prior (which itself marked an all-time high), and triple the year before that. Human trafficking-related arrests never topped 2,000 under the Obama administration and were a paltry 300 in 2010."
The amount of people arrested for illegally crossing the border with children is up at least 200% from the end of the previous administration. Wouldn't it stand to reason that human-trafficking arrests would be up too? Keep in mind, the amount of border patrol agents on the southern border from day 1 to the final day of the previous adminstration tripled, so it's not as if the border was ignored. (This was initially funded under Bush 43.)
Number of arrests for illegally crossing Mexican border - ( New Window )
who the fuck things colin kapernick is some litmus test for common sentiment? also, don't expect people to automatically be proud of being american with the current embarrassment that's occurring.
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I kind of just implied concentration camps full of children might not be a far-fetched conception of it.
You realize that those people in those "concentration" camps came willingly and can leave to go home anytime they want. Kind of the exact opposite of actual Concentration camps. You know that.
Right?
don't fucking defend this, it's fucking disgusting. this is NOT who we are.