With Colin Kaepernick again pursuing the sins of the public, can we get a list of offensive items and references I need to avoid?
When Betsy Fucking Ross is knitting symbols of oppression, I'm assuming there has to be some history we can keep referencing without pissing off those who claim to be for "free speech".
I'd play God Bless America in tribute, but that makes me a Nazi-loving stooge. I might even offer up some nickels and dollar bills to give to the cause, but those pieces of money are tarnished by slave owning scum.
Can I get some ground rules for how not to piss off the serially ruffled??
👮 🚔🚨🚨🚨
Quote:
Huh??
Quote:
Its connection with white supremacist groups?
You really want your confederate flag? And this is a thread about patriotism? You realize the confederacy was literally opposed to the US and represents sedition on a grand scale?
White supremacists are waving Colonial Flags now? Shoving Betsy Ross down our throats??
Obviously, I'm not the only one with a reading problem. I wasn't talking about the colonial flag.
But, if someone were offended by the colonial flag and called a symbol of white supremacy, I would understand, because black people at the time of the colonies were largely ENSLAVED. So, in that context, it does represent slavery. That was the economic system at the time. It's silly to pretend that black people are just sensitive.
You really are ignoring history.
I am A little troubled by the argument because basically your logic requires us to throw out all of history prior to whatever recent timeframe you think is appropriate. It requires you to ignore good works, art, literature, charity, discovery because it happened of a certain time. Not just ignore, but condemn. It makes no allowance for evolution, anthropological or cultural. (And, of course, not just in this country, but world-wide, since horrors and atrocities are not limited to our borders over human history.
Today, all over the country there will be a public reading of the Declaration of Independence. It is supposedly celebratory. But, it was signed by men from the existing colonies, half of which were slave-owning states. It is the written accompaniment to the “Betsy Ross” flag (side note...Betsy Ross had nothing to do with the flag) and, likewise, carries the same symbolism, which ever symbolism you “choose” to draw from it.
Is the Declaration of Independence offensive?
"All men are created equal."
Your - likely - favorite phrase specifically excludes women.
For the time it might have been radical. But then isn't that just an argument for rejecting your reactionary worldview and embracing the CKs of the world?
To me, that is sad.
To me, that is sad.
who the fuck things colin kapernick is some litmus test for common sentiment? also, don't expect people to automatically be proud of being american with the current embarrassment that's occurring.
Well being that Comin Kaepernick is the reason why Nike pulled the shoe - which then caused Arizona to pull production of a Nike plant to follow. It seems like Kap’s opinion/words have more meaning than people realize.
But hey, he promotes dead cops - so it’s cool to listen to him.
Dont mince words, you know what the post was intended to communicate. And its bullshit. Why is it a far-fetched conception of it? Because no one involvef is acting like a true fascist state would. Politicians with opposing views have been allowed to tour it. Media have reportrd on it in scathing editorials. Pictures have been published detailing the conditions.
None of those things happen in a fascist state. Its denied, its covered up, and dissenters are rounded up and excised from society. Jist because youre morally opposed to something doesnt make it fascist. People are playing way too fast and loose with the language in order to serve a narrative.
It also places all of the blame squarely on the United States when there are so many other factors. including other countries, that are complicit in this mess. But thats largely ignored because it doesnt fit the narrative of the shameful United States. But you even point that out you run the risk of being labeled an ultranationalist/white supremacist/misogynist.
who the fuck things colin kapernick is some litmus test for common sentiment? also, don't expect people to automatically be proud of being american with the current embarrassment that's occurring.
So you call him a huge pussy then refer to “the current embarrassment”
You’re really contradicting yourself there my friend
Quote:
In comment 14491451 adamg said:
Quote:
I kind of just implied concentration camps full of children might not be a far-fetched conception of it.
You realize that those people in those "concentration" camps came willingly and can leave to go home anytime they want. Kind of the exact opposite of actual Concentration camps. You know that.
Right?
oh really? the toddlers can leave on their own volition?
don't fucking defend this, it's fucking disgusting. this is NOT who we are.
So you're saying the toddlers just toddled in?
WTF does that even mean? Sure, it's a liberal talking point and a current catch phrase to show how serious you are.
but guess what, it's exactly who we are, who we should be and who we've always been. Only now you can score political points by railing against the current administration.
We are a nation of laws. when those laws get broken there are consequences.
There is a process to enter the country, regardless of where people come from or what language they speak they know there is a process and there will be consequences for not following the process.
Additionally, people bring children with them for a reason many times...because they know it increases their chance of simply getting across the border. Because of who we are.
I'm not sure what some of you expect. Tear down the border, let people simply come here at will and when they get here put them up in the Ritz Carlton, give them free education, free health care, living expenses on the backs of tax payers?
Some of you need to take a step back and ask yourselves why the sudden fever pitch of attention being paid to something that has been a political issue for decades.
People are so well coordinated in these caravans coming across our border I do not believe it is a tin foil hat conspiracy to think these are well funded coordinated efforts for a specific political reason. If you don't at least question this, the media owns you.
Lastly the majority of the people crossing are not even legitimate refugees, they openly admit they are coming here for better economic opportunity - which is not a qualifying reason for asylum. they need to wait in line like everyone else who came before them.
next you're going to say "not erasing everyone's college debt is just not who we are"
People love to say we are a nation of immigrants, and it's true, but legal immigration and illegal immigration are not the same thing. My ancestors waited in line at Ellis Island, like so many before them, and many people were turned away for many reasons and sent back to where they came from (disease, criminals, etc.)
Here is a blurb about Ellis Island for those interested in "who we are"
Upon arrival at Ellis Island, immigrants were ushered into a room called the Great Hall and paraded before a series of medical officers for physical inspection. Most were allowed to pass by in a matter of seconds, but those whom the doctors deemed physically or mentally deficient were marked with chalk and taken away for additional screening. Questionable candidates were forced to submit to more detailed questioning and medical exams, and any signs of contagious disease, poor physique, feeblemindedness or insanity could see an immigrant denied admittance on the grounds that they were likely to become a ward of the state. In later years, doctors at Ellis Island even devised puzzles and memory tests to ensure that certain immigrants were intelligent enough to find work. New arrivals could also face rejection if they were anarchists, had a criminal record or showed signs of low moral character. Despite the litany of guidelines for new immigrants, the number of people denied entry at Ellis Island was quite low. Of the 12 million people who passed through its doors between 1892 and 1954, only around 2 percent were deemed unfit to become citizens of the United States.
What you are describing at Ellis Island is not the sort of behavior or treatment people are up in arms about. Can you not see the difference in specifically implementing a cruel new policy? And then actively applying misinformation about the origin of said policy by blaming it on the prior administration?
Quote:
There’s nothing in history that should be celebrated.
To me, that is sad.
That's a ridiculous reading of what I said. But ok.
But it’s not. Your argument has been that things which occurred at a time where bad things happened, even if unrelated, are offensive in and of themselves. Bystander offensiveness based on their point in history where they occurred.
The flag had nothing to do with slavery and was symbolic of something completely different, but the coincidence of time has made it offensive. Likewise the Declaration. Likewise, I presume, the Constitution, which was ratified by colonies/states where slavery occurred.
If my reading of your argument, and basically CK’s argument, is ridiculous, then I would say that it is spot on accurate of your argument.
The OP is a good example of this -- there isn't room for any discussion -- it's a fact this is stupid. Critically discussing, even if the discussion leads to agreeing is contrarian. And the discussion itself isn't worthy because the premise is a fact (which begs the question why post the topic other than to moan, which doesn't seem very productive).
I typicality don't jump to conclusions on matters where I don't have all the facts, and there are a lot of members of BBI with much more knowledgeable and with better researched opinions than me.
I was totally confused about Pepe the frog for instance, I don't run with hate groups, I had no idea what that was all about. Sometimes innocuous symbols have been coopted, gladly it doesn't seem to be the case here. Secondly, I am not an expert on the symbolism of flags as a historical and anthropological cause of offense.
I can kind of see Kaepernick's point, but after reading other's opinions on this thread (including FMiC) I tend to agree the symbol needs to be imbued with hate to be removed from usage, and this case doesn't pass that test.
It's funny, it's as if withholding opinion, and then coming to one after discussion, has become some kind of combative characteristic.
The OP is a good example of this -- there isn't room for any discussion -- it's a fact this is stupid. Critically discussing, even if the discussion leads to agreeing is contrarian. And the discussion itself isn't worthy because the premise is a fact (which begs the question why post the topic other than to moan, which doesn't seem very productive).
I typicality don't jump to conclusions on matters where I don't have all the facts, and there are a lot of members of BBI with much more knowledgeable and with better researched opinions than me.
I was totally confused about Pepe the frog for instance, I don't run with hate groups, I had no idea what that was all about. Sometimes innocuous symbols have been coopted, gladly it doesn't seem to be the case here. Secondly, I am not an expert on the symbolism of flags as a historical and anthropological cause of offense.
I can kind of see Kaepernick's point, but after reading other's opinions on this thread (including FMiC) I tend to agree the symbol needs to be imbued with hate to be removed from usage, and this case doesn't pass that test.
It's funny, it's as if withholding opinion, and then coming to one after discussion, has become some kind of combative characteristic.
Excellent post. Well said and I agree
The OP is a good example of this -- there isn't room for any discussion -- it's a fact this is stupid. Critically discussing, even if the discussion leads to agreeing is contrarian. And the discussion itself isn't worthy because the premise is a fact (which begs the question why post the topic other than to moan, which doesn't seem very productive).
I typicality don't jump to conclusions on matters where I don't have all the facts, and there are a lot of members of BBI with much more knowledgeable and with better researched opinions than me.
I was totally confused about Pepe the frog for instance, I don't run with hate groups, I had no idea what that was all about. Sometimes innocuous symbols have been coopted, gladly it doesn't seem to be the case here. Secondly, I am not an expert on the symbolism of flags as a historical and anthropological cause of offense.
I can kind of see Kaepernick's point, but after reading other's opinions on this thread (including FMiC) I tend to agree the symbol needs to be imbued with hate to be removed from usage, and this case doesn't pass that test.
It's funny, it's as if withholding opinion, and then coming to one after discussion, has become some kind of combative characteristic.
Good post and largely agree. I think what we're seeing is the result of increasingly partisan news coverage. The agencies have their positions, have dug their heels in, and each days news is molded to fit their respective narratives. It's dangerous and divisive.
Everything and anything can be deemed offensive when you have the persecution complex. Oh, and people on both sides can suffer from it!
Personally this is the only flag I DON'T find offensive. The song says "Sea to shining sea" Alaska and Hawaii have no right to be part of our contiguous country!
What you are describing at Ellis Island is not the sort of behavior or treatment people are up in arms about. Can you not see the difference in specifically implementing a cruel new policy? And then actively applying misinformation about the origin of said policy by blaming it on the prior administration?
The policy wasn't created to be cruel, in fact it wasn't even created, it was simply enforced.
And the biggest hypocrisy is from the people in congress who have been there for years and multiple administrations with the exact same problems only now that the lights are on and 2020 at stake they go through wild histrionics. Just look at the positions of Obama, Schumer, Pelosi, etc. from 2008 until now. And check out the media reaction from then until now. What changed? we became "woke"?
no, it's all politics. 100% politics. This went from not a crisis to a manufactured crisis, to a photo op humanitarian crisis in less than two years - when nothing changed.
In real life I don't think I'm perecieved as antagonist, probably just not very quick and confused a lot. Thus the really needing it spelled out to understand or come to a conclusion/opinion.
Anyway, good discussion, and I learned something. I hope the political elements of the thread don't get it taken down. As a minority, the topics of race in sports, business, and culture really interest me and it's worth discussing.
Quote:
You seem to want to ignore or brush aside that a specific policy (the Zero Tolerance initiative) was implemented by the current administration.
What you are describing at Ellis Island is not the sort of behavior or treatment people are up in arms about. Can you not see the difference in specifically implementing a cruel new policy? And then actively applying misinformation about the origin of said policy by blaming it on the prior administration?
The policy wasn't created to be cruel, in fact it wasn't even created, it was simply enforced.
And the biggest hypocrisy is from the people in congress who have been there for years and multiple administrations with the exact same problems only now that the lights are on and 2020 at stake they go through wild histrionics. Just look at the positions of Obama, Schumer, Pelosi, etc. from 2008 until now. And check out the media reaction from then until now. What changed? we became "woke"?
no, it's all politics. 100% politics. This went from not a crisis to a manufactured crisis, to a photo op humanitarian crisis in less than two years - when nothing changed.
Politicians and corporate media are vile scum looking out to enrich themselves in collusion. It's all agenda, just wish we had a commish who was not a complete moron and kept this garbage out of football.
(1) silencing of dissidents, (2) destroying the past, and (3) indoctrination of the youth. Because of Mao's total political and military control, he could delay the indoctrination oh the youth.
Lacking Mao’s total control, the order in the U.S. required indoctrination first.
(a) For decades, our youth have been taught that Capitalism is racist and evil, and that our quality of
life is only limited by corporations and the wealthy. Socialism is the preferred political structure on college campuses.
(b) We see numerous occurrences where Conservatives are shouted down and attacked to prevent them from speaking in public. Fox News is irresponsible journalism. Conservatives are defined by leading Progressive Politicians as “ those who cling to their god and their guns” and “stupid, ignorant, uneducated, non- educated deplorables.
(c) Everything that emanated from our Founding Fathers was rooted in racism and therefore invalid, up to and
including the design of modern shoes. The electoral college should be replaced to represent fairness, but
only for urban centers.
We are copying others history, with a goal of a single dominant political party.
Thankfully most, if not all the people I run into in life don't take such strong stances or aren't as clairvoyant in the ways of what other think or will do.
Quote:
You seem to want to ignore or brush aside that a specific policy (the Zero Tolerance initiative) was implemented by the current administration.
What you are describing at Ellis Island is not the sort of behavior or treatment people are up in arms about. Can you not see the difference in specifically implementing a cruel new policy? And then actively applying misinformation about the origin of said policy by blaming it on the prior administration?
The policy wasn't created to be cruel, in fact it wasn't even created, it was simply enforced.
And the biggest hypocrisy is from the people in congress who have been there for years and multiple administrations with the exact same problems only now that the lights are on and 2020 at stake they go through wild histrionics. Just look at the positions of Obama, Schumer, Pelosi, etc. from 2008 until now. And check out the media reaction from then until now. What changed? we became "woke"?
no, it's all politics. 100% politics. This went from not a crisis to a manufactured crisis, to a photo op humanitarian crisis in less than two years - when nothing changed.
Pj, that policy absolutely was created. There was a press conference held by Jeff Sessions in May 2018 announcing said policy. And the policy was implemented as an added deterrent. that lead to an increase in child detainees and family separation.
This does not mean that Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc didn't have their own family separation and children detained events or issues. I am not trying to imply that this is a new thing, but that the current administration has most certainly made this worse and led to a crisis, manufactured or not.
How long have 40,000 people been crossing the border every day?
gtt always brings the quality.
Quote:
each day,that is a huge crisis that we don't have the resources to handle. The manufacturered crisis came from the left saying there wasn't one. now that it's so big they switch to look we have concentration camps. total bs
How long have 40,000 people been crossing the border every day?
I don’t honestly know, but I’m sure there has been a steady stream for a very long time which has always been a huge problem. However, I feel like there was a “bump” because of the “Caravans” which seem to have been targeted responses to the current admin.
That’s off by about a factor of 10. Total for all of May, which was a 13 year high, was @ 144K.
Maybe Kapernick is just really really dumb, ergo says and does a lot of really really dumb stuff?
there is a crisis that was ignored and now the reporting is the complete opposite of two months ago
CBP has not provided June numbers yet, but they were running lower. July obviously just started.
The immigration situation, specifically along the southern border has changed very much in the last 12-24 months -- why that's controversial to acknowledge really goes over my head.
There are very decent and logical analysis to be made on the topic, but wildly miscalculating the numbers doesn't seem very productive.
Quote:
each day,that is a huge crisis that we don't have the resources to handle. The manufacturered crisis came from the left saying there wasn't one. now that it's so big they switch to look we have concentration camps. total bs
That’s off by about a factor of 10. Total for all of May, which was a 13 year high, was @ 144K.
Thats still an incredibly high number. Im all for smart immigration reform thsts in line with basic human rights. I think the vast majority of people are. At the same time its not racist, xenophobic, or jingoist to wonder how thats sustainable. Keep kids with their families. Offer asylum when its necessary. But do what's in the best interest of America. Plenty of countries have strict immigration policies and arent seen as immoral. We can thank oportunistic politicians and an agenda driven media for that.
That's one factor that's maybe too logical or unsexy to discuss.
Quote:
In comment 14491812 gtt350 said:
Quote:
each day,that is a huge crisis that we don't have the resources to handle. The manufacturered crisis came from the left saying there wasn't one. now that it's so big they switch to look we have concentration camps. total bs
That’s off by about a factor of 10. Total for all of May, which was a 13 year high, was @ 144K.
Thats still an incredibly high number. Im all for smart immigration reform thsts in line with basic human rights. I think the vast majority of people are. At the same time its not racist, xenophobic, or jingoist to wonder how thats sustainable. Keep kids with their families. Offer asylum when its necessary. But do what's in the best interest of America. Plenty of countries have strict immigration policies and arent seen as immoral. We can thank oportunistic politicians and an agenda driven media for that.
Maybe we could resume helping some of these people at the source so that they feel less of a need to come here in the first place.
Quote:
In comment 14491850 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14491812 gtt350 said:
Quote:
each day,that is a huge crisis that we don't have the resources to handle. The manufacturered crisis came from the left saying there wasn't one. now that it's so big they switch to look we have concentration camps. total bs
That’s off by about a factor of 10. Total for all of May, which was a 13 year high, was @ 144K.
Thats still an incredibly high number. Im all for smart immigration reform thsts in line with basic human rights. I think the vast majority of people are. At the same time its not racist, xenophobic, or jingoist to wonder how thats sustainable. Keep kids with their families. Offer asylum when its necessary. But do what's in the best interest of America. Plenty of countries have strict immigration policies and arent seen as immoral. We can thank oportunistic politicians and an agenda driven media for that.
Maybe we could resume helping some of these people at the source so that they feel less of a need to come here in the first place.
I don't disagree. I think cutting it was a short-sighted move and probably had a lot to do with the caravans. I dont think its crazy to wonder if it was an organized response.
Poverty and lack of economic mobility, specifically as the agrerian economy there has weakened seems to be more the driving factor.
The amount of aid required to stimulate depressed economies, and the efficiency of even doing so is on its own is a huge topic. A generation of aid and loans in Africa hasn't done much to stem the tied of immigration nor really stimulated economies in meaningful ways.
There's an argument to be made letting immigrants in from these areas, and letting them eventually contribute to the US economy is much cheaper and more efficient.
Bravo BBI
Bravo BBI
It was a different problem. Back then it was mostly Mexican men coming for seasonal work on farms or in construction.