Ursula is showing that he is winning games with his glove and his glove may be as big a weapon as Andujar's bat. Both Andujar and Urshela's contracts are under Yankee control for the next several seasons, and cost-effective wise in maintaining some semblance of an affordable whole team salary structure. So the question is: Where to position Andujar? The suggestions that we all heard is DH and 1B. I'm wondering: Why not LF? Let Frazier and Andujar share the position next year and see who wins out.
But have to admit that I was thinking Andujar right now is a trade piece. Both he and Frazier are gifted offensive players with bad defensive skills. Frazier is easily the better defensive player. He should be an above average fielder because of his speed and arm.
I'm not forgetting anything. He is a hitting machine with a chance for great power numbers. But where does he play in this lineup? (I love him, btw.)
Right now he'd have to beat out Voit for 1st base and I think he can have better offensive than Voit. With Torres, Didi, LeMahieu and Urshela he does not have a defensive position. How many games/runs has Urshela saved with his defensive play?
is there a stud pitcher with 2 + years of control worth it?
I sooooo would do it for DeGrom. Last year Cy Young winner. Only 31 years old and under control for 5 years. Mets get Frazier and Andujar to rebuild we get DeGrom.
Mets rebuild with two young studs. They keep Wheeler as their ace.
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and the power, plus clutch hitting? And he did it as a Rookie! If Andujar is traded it has to be for a #1 starting pitcher.
is there a stud pitcher with 2 + years of control worth it?
I sooooo would do it for DeGrom. Last year Cy Young winner. Only 31 years old and under control for 5 years. Mets get Frazier and Andujar to rebuild we get DeGrom.
Mets rebuild with two young studs. They keep Wheeler as their ace.
That trade immediately makes the Mets a much better team. The Mets are very good at developing pitchers. As of now deGrom is the better pitcher, but Wheeler is pretty good despite what Greg thinks. But, yeah, I'd prefer deGrom.
I still think Frazier is ticketed for LF next season.
Section, In terms of how many games Ursula has won with his glove, I don't know. It seems the bum likes to lie on his ass and throw out runners at first base.
Section, In terms of how many games Ursula has won with his glove, I don't know. It seems the bum likes to lie on his ass and throw out runners at first base.
Our glaring weakness is starting pitching. We aren't signing guys to big contracts because we want to stay below the highest salary cap threshold. They want a young, good, cost controlled pitcher. What other options do we have besides trading for one? Yeah, we could go the cheaper route and go after a guy like Stroman but he is coming from the same division. He'll have a tax associated with him. Bumgarner? He's gonna cost? Any Mets pitcher? Yeah, don't see that happening unless we over pay. Boyd? Fuck that guy but they wanted Gelyber. Their price is sky high. Cashman already said if Scherzer becomes available then he will do what it takes to get him.
My point being is Frazier is not long for this team. His defense is horrendous. Look at what the Yanks did this offseason? They stressed defense. That want the best defensive players out there. Frazier doesn't fit with this team long term in my opinion.
Andujar has more of a chance to stick but he is also a big trading chip that can help us fill out bigges hole on this team. We have LeMahieu and Urshela to fill in for 3B. We don't need an allstar at every position but we do need a frontline starter.
Our team looks great. We are all happy with tye way they have played this year but someome said it perfect, are we going to be able to beat Houston when we have to face Cole and Verlander potentially 5 times in a 7 game series? Right now, we'd habe to do it with our bats. It isn't about having the best record in baseball during the regular season. It is about winning a world series. Forget about LAD for now with theor rotation. Can we beat Houston in a 7 game series facing two of the very best pitchers in the game 5 of those 7 games?
They need 4 OF'ers. Stanton is clearly better defensively than Frazier. But Gardy is done as a Yankee after this year. His batting is terrible. He is missing what he usually puts in play.
As far as Frazier's defense, there is no reason for him not to get better in the OF, none. He has the speed and arm to play there daily. He needs to put the time in to improve. It is not ability, it is desire.
As for Andujar, I just don't know what he can do to vastly improve his defense except a move to 1st. He can catch, but his throws are awful. His range is limited, but most 1st baseman are limited - it is why they are at first.
I like Frazier but there is no room for himin the of plus you can always add a of in free agency as a 4th fielder. Look at Maybin. Plus glove can play all OF positions.
Andujar is good but Urshela’s glove is pure gold. Trade him now. He hits the ground running next year.
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and the power, plus clutch hitting? And he did it as a Rookie! If Andujar is traded it has to be for a #1 starting pitcher.
is there a stud pitcher with 2 + years of control worth it?
I sooooo would do it for DeGrom. Last year Cy Young winner. Only 31 years old and under control for 5 years. Mets get Frazier and Andujar to rebuild we get DeGrom.
Mets rebuild with two young studs. They keep Wheeler as their ace.
The Mets aren’t trading deGrom for two guys that can’t play defense and one that is recovering from shoulder surgery. It would take much more than that.
Paxton was a trade...looks like a good one so far as the biggest prospect we gave up, Justus Sheffield, has been mostly awful in AAA for the Mariners so far. But he’s young and may find it.
I’m down for trading Andujar, but his value is low now as he’s out for the season, not s trade to be forced. And as said by arc and others, need to see Urshela play and hit at this level for more than a half season before declaring him 3B of the future
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Do people really want Frazier in the OF over Stanton? Frazier is horrendous as a field and playing in LF in Yankee stadium is no walk in the park.
They need 4 OF'ers. Stanton is clearly better defensively than Frazier. But Gardy is done as a Yankee after this year. His batting is terrible. He is missing what he usually puts in play.
As far as Frazier's defense, there is no reason for him not to get better in the OF, none. He has the speed and arm to play there daily. He needs to put the time in to improve. It is not ability, it is desire.
As for Andujar, I just don't know what he can do to vastly improve his defense except a move to 1st. He can catch, but his throws are awful. His range is limited, but most 1st baseman are limited - it is why they are at first.
Can he get better? Sure. But this isn't like a rookie in football. What the hell has he been doing in the minors all these years? This sounds like optimism around Flowers with everybody saying he's young and he'll get better. Imo, he is what he is. And do we think a 4th OF is more important than a front line starter?
The last couple of years we have had no problem finding 4th OF like Maybin and McCutchen. Those roles are much easier filled than a top of the rotation starter.
It will cost us to get one. Players will be traded at some point. It is part of the game. You may feel differently than me but I have no issue trading Frazier or Andujar to bolster our starting rotation.
I think if you could deal one of them for a top of rotation starter you have to do it. If Andujar could play the OF I’d prefer to keep him over Clint, he carried this team last year as a rookie, his bat is legit. If he could fill in occasionally at OF/1B/3B/DH then it’s a no brainer who to hold onto. It’s a tough decision to make cause you have to think long term and the fit with the other pieces with this current core of guys.
Yanks don’t have really any depth of guys in the OF after this year. Gardner will be gone, which leaves you with Stanton, Judge and Hicks who all miss games at times. I’d like to see Miggy in this team but he has to show he can offer something defensively.
No way he is the 4th outfielder in 2020
IMO, it makes no sense to talk about moving Frazier or Andujar.
Do we need to improve the pitching for the playoffs? Of course.
But I think a pending FA like Wheeler for 2-3 prospects is more likely.
I think the way to combat the Houston starting pitching strength is to ADD to our strength- the bullpen. I think adding a proven lefty to the bullpen- think Hand, or the Reds Amir Garrett, or the Pirates Felipe Vazquez makes great sense.
No way he is the 4th outfielder in 2020
I agree he has a lot of work to do especially with his high K % but I was just reading something that has his projected time to the Majors as 2020 hence why I asked.
IMO, it makes no sense to talk about moving Frazier or Andujar.
Do we need to improve the pitching for the playoffs? Of course.
But I think a pending FA like Wheeler for 2-3 prospects is more likely.
I think the way to combat the Houston starting pitching strength is to ADD to our strength- the bullpen. I think adding a proven lefty to the bullpen- think Hand, or the Reds Amir Garrett, or the Pirates Felipe Vazquez makes great sense.
But we don't have to match Verlander and Cole. We do need to be able to slow down Houston's offense enough for our bats to get to Verlander and Cole. That is the difference imo.
I am not comparing Heller to Betances, but its looking possible that Heller could be back in the Yankees bullpen this season.
Also bullpen is what Houston and the Rays need. So taking them off the market is two birds with one stone.
Every year one of the bullpen aces has a subpar year so if you are going to win via offense, defense and bullpen then follow the blueprint
The big gamble is not a trade this year its Severino this year or next.
Severino is the best available pitcher to any playoff bound contender. This year or next.
Id point out that any team with a healthy Severino, Paxton, Tanaka and German/CC plus slightly better options in the bullpen is the best team in baseball
His last outing, he looked pretty mortal against the Red Sox AA (following 2 incredible performances). He has a great future, but I think 19 is just too early and would require a move to get him onto the 40 man roster.
Garcia is now the 2nd youngest player in all of AA. Just a move to AAA would make him the youngest AAA player in baseball.
Yes, he could come up and be part of the pen. His innings are going to be limited anyway, so why not?
Likely is possible but should is way off IMO.
I think because he's been out so long too many are forgetting how great and unique his bat is. No way the Yanks should give up on that.
We've seen all the injuries a team can get this year and there's no telling something similar doesn't happen next year, and we'd be glad we have his bat in the lineup.
These things tend to work themselves out and you can never have too much talent or give up on it either. He's too good a bat to just dismiss easily.
...not so fast on trading Miguel Andujar?
Really? Trading him is exactly what I would call giving up on him. I mean how else could it be described?
If they really liked him they wouldn't trade him no matter the return. They'd find other chips to include so they could keep him.
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Far from it. Using him as a centerpiece to acquire a starting pitcher is not giving up on him.
Really? Trading him is exactly what I would call giving up on him. I mean how else could it be described?
If they really liked him they wouldn't trade him no matter the return. They'd find other chips to include so they could keep him.
It could be called upgrading our team to get us over that hump for a world series.
Does anyone know if Andujar can play OF?
Also was Frazier as horrible in LF as RF? The angles etc are very different.
Context. He had a horrendous first half of June hitting .187. Apparently he went away from his level swing and was trying to drive the ball more after hitting a few homeruns. He rebounded mid-June. His last about 30 PAs he is .308/.333/.575. So it is not like he went into a tailspin all June and has reverted to the old Gio since. No, he had a terrible first half of June, adjusted, and went right back to his All-star level 2019 totals.
I think Andujar and Clint Frazier are somewhat overrated by Yankee fans — Andujar's a great bat but a meh fielder; Frazier hasn't proven a thing in the majors — but let's stipulate that they are really two young studs. Andujar and Frazier are still not going to be enough for de Grom, for one simple reason: The Yankees are a contender trying to fill a spot to win a title, trading with a weaker team that is out of contention. In that situation, the contender always overpays.
Always.
The weaker team has an asset to auction off to the highest bidder. They don't have to make a deal, but they can be convinced. The stronger team is trying to fill a spot to make a run. They are under pressure to deal. The weaker team is in the stronger bargaining position.
To take one example I happen to know from memory, the Dodgers needed a left-handed reliever when Steve Howe got a drug suspension. They were a contender. The Mets stunk worse than now, but they had Carlos Diaz, a pretty good lefty reliever. The Dodgers needed Diaz, and had to give up a top pitching prospect: Sid Fernandez. Fernandez was WAY more valuable in the long-run than Diaz. Everybody knew it. But that's a normal deal in this situation. They gave up a top starting pitching prospect for an above-average lefty reliever.
So when you try to imagine the Yankees trading for de Grom, throw out your idea of fair value. Instead, imagine how much you are willing to overpay. Remember that the Mets have no interest in helping the Yankees go on yet another title run and further increase their market share. So what would it take?
I don't think either Frazier or Andujar is that enticing. I heard Evan Roberts say any de Grom trade with the Yankees would have to start with Gleyber Torres. That's more like it. Here's one: Torres, Anthony Seigler, Estevean Florial and a top pitching prospect for de Grom and Robinson Cano. Yes, you have to take back Cano's contract. Yes, you have to give up Torres, and three top prospects, AND take the bad contract. Too much? You're getting fleeced? Ok, go make a deal with the Giants for Bumgarner. They're going to want to fleece you, too. That's how it works.
I don't want the Mets to trade de Grom and I'd rather see the Mets put McNeill at 2nd base and leave him there. I especially don't want to see de Grom on the Yankees. (But after seeing Cone, Strawberry and Gooden all play in the Bronx, I'm inured to that pain.) However, if you're going to ask the Mets to help their in-city competition win a title or two or three, that's the kind of price you need to be willing to pay. The Mets have to have a reasonable argument that they have restocked their farm system and are setting themselves up for their own title runs starting around 2022.
Neither side would do it. Neither side SHOULD do it. But that's how it would have to go down.
I think Andujar and Clint Frazier are somewhat overrated by Yankee fans — Andujar's a great bat but a meh fielder; Frazier hasn't proven a thing in the majors — but let's stipulate that they are really two young studs. Andujar and Frazier are still not going to be enough for de Grom, for one simple reason: The Yankees are a contender trying to fill a spot to win a title, trading with a weaker team that is out of contention. In that situation, the contender always overpays.
Always.
The weaker team has an asset to auction off to the highest bidder. They don't have to make a deal, but they can be convinced. The stronger team is trying to fill a spot to make a run. They are under pressure to deal. The weaker team is in the stronger bargaining position.
To take one example I happen to know from memory, the Dodgers needed a left-handed reliever when Steve Howe got a drug suspension. They were a contender. The Mets stunk worse than now, but they had Carlos Diaz, a pretty good lefty reliever. The Dodgers needed Diaz, and had to give up a top pitching prospect: Sid Fernandez. Fernandez was WAY more valuable in the long-run than Diaz. Everybody knew it. But that's a normal deal in this situation. They gave up a top starting pitching prospect for an above-average lefty reliever.
So when you try to imagine the Yankees trading for de Grom, throw out your idea of fair value. Instead, imagine how much you are willing to overpay. Remember that the Mets have no interest in helping the Yankees go on yet another title run and further increase their market share. So what would it take?
I don't think either Frazier or Andujar is that enticing. I heard Evan Roberts say any de Grom trade with the Yankees would have to start with Gleyber Torres. That's more like it. Here's one: Torres, Anthony Seigler, Estevean Florial and a top pitching prospect for de Grom and Robinson Cano. Yes, you have to take back Cano's contract. Yes, you have to give up Torres, and three top prospects, AND take the bad contract. Too much? You're getting fleeced? Ok, go make a deal with the Giants for Bumgarner. They're going to want to fleece you, too. That's how it works.
I don't want the Mets to trade de Grom and I'd rather see the Mets put McNeill at 2nd base and leave him there. I especially don't want to see de Grom on the Yankees. (But after seeing Cone, Strawberry and Gooden all play in the Bronx, I'm inured to that pain.) However, if you're going to ask the Mets to help their in-city competition win a title or two or three, that's the kind of price you need to be willing to pay. The Mets have to have a reasonable argument that they have restocked their farm system and are setting themselves up for their own title runs starting around 2022.
Neither side would do it. Neither side SHOULD do it. But that's how it would have to go down.
Starting pitchers are too fragile to give up the farm in a move to win one championship unless you can somehow fleece the team who no longer wants to pay the salary (hello Detroit). I like DeGrom but I want no part of mortgaging our future for one player. Ask cubs fans to be honest about how they feel about missing out on Torres, Jimenez, Cease, Vogelbach, Candelario, etc. They got half a season of Chapman and nothing else that has helped them (Quintana was clearly never going to pitch better than he had already).
I think Cashman will avoid the temptation to make a major move for a starting pitcher. Right or wrong we will only know in time. I certainly am fine with being the Evil Opportunist Empire.
I think Cashman will avoid the temptation to make a major move for a starting pitcher. Right or wrong we will only know in time. I certainly am fine with being the Evil Opportunist Empire.
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Starting pitchers are too fragile to give up the farm in a move to win one championship unless you can somehow fleece the team who no longer wants to pay the salary (hello Detroit). I like DeGrom but I want no part of mortgaging our future for one player. Ask cubs fans to be honest about how they feel about missing out on Torres, Jimenez, Cease, Vogelbach, Candelario, etc. They got half a season of Chapman and nothing else that has helped them (Quintana was clearly never going to pitch better than he had already).
I think Cashman will avoid the temptation to make a major move for a starting pitcher. Right or wrong we will only know in time. I certainly am fine with being the Evil Opportunist Empire.
That is 100% fair. I don't think the Yankees would do it, and for that matter, I don't think the Mets would do it. Not so sure the Cubs and their fans have those regrets, though. They got a World Series win out of it, after waiting well over a century. You willingly get fleeced to get your fans that first championship in 100+ years. But would they do the same deal in 2019, less than 10 years removed from that title. Oh HELL no.
Most cubs fans i've asked have fallen on the party line initially but since we will never know whether they would have won without Chapman, I guess its fair. That said, it would have been alot easier to stomach if they had resigned Chapman instead of playing roulette with their BP for the next few years.
McNeil is likely locked into 3B in 2020. We will start 2020 with a healthy Cespedes, Dominic Smith, Nimmo, and Conforto fighting for OF spots...
Sorry, don't see it.
Trade us Gleyber and I could see us upgrading off of Rosario at SS but even that isn't really an urgent necessity. Rosario is still only 23 and might have a shot at a 20/20 season this year.
McNeil is likely locked into 3B in 2020. We will start 2020 with a healthy Cespedes, Dominic Smith, Nimmo, and Conforto fighting for OF spots...
Sorry, don't see it.
Trade us Gleyber and I could see us upgrading off of Rosario at SS but even that isn't really an urgent necessity. Rosario is still only 23 and might have a shot at a 20/20 season this year.
Lol. Fuck yourself.