Giants 2019 Positional Breakdown: Linebackers

defense. And the way these players answer those questions will have a big effect on the Giants success this season.

Was always going to take more than one year to be really successful, especially for a team that had given short shrift to the LB's for a very long time, and had tons of other needs across the board. It's still a work in progress to upgrade that corps, but there are some positive signs. Can you remember the last time the Giants used two consecutive Day 2 draft picks on LB's, as they did in 2018 and 2019? I can't. So it's a start.

With BJ Hill and Dexter Lawrence with a biltzing J.Peppers

Must create enough presser on the QB

For the Giants to be successful this year

If, as several pundits have written, this is most likely Ogletree's last season with the Giants, we could conceivably see two new starting ILB's in 2020. The free agent market looks very promising and the Giants will have money to burn. I'd like to think that Ryan Connelly will develop into a solid starter, but that remains to be seen. The Giants seem to like Tae Davis a lot, but I thought he was pretty bad last year. Maybe he'll justify their apparent faith in him, maybe he won't. That remains to be seen, too.

review. This is not a strong group. There are legitimate questions about where we will get pass rush from this group, which we need in a 3-4, along with more speed. I don't blame DG. This is only year two.

There is a reason they drafted so many dbs

Our D will likely use multiple packages featuring large numbers of dbs imo

There will always be a place on the D for edge rushers who can pressure the qb but the role of the run stuffing lb continues to devalue

The biggest weakness in our D for the past few seasons has been our inability to cover TEs and RBs running rampant in the middle of our secondary

With the disappearance of the Kickoff Returns, ST work also takes on less importance. ST specialists e.g. Stupar are superfluous.

Lbs need to be able to cover and/or pressure the passer. Everything else is secondary.

I still see them carrying 10-11 defensive backs.

Right now, I have...

3 QB
4 RB/FB
5 WR
4 TE
9 OL

6 DL
8 LB
10 DB

3 P/K/LS

It's that last spot... extra WR, LB, DB? Right now, I'm going with Dungey but that's just a shot in the dark.

I did a little post-draft research and was surprised to find that he'd been graded as high as was by several pundits. Initially, I thought he was a "reach," but the consensus was that he'd go in the 3rd Round, so not a reach at all.

Still, I wasn't very high on him. I thought he was a big fish in a small pond, so to speak, feasting on competition that was less than NFL-caliber. Not very athletic...a little light in the pants.

However, my opinion began to change when I listened to Carl Banks talk about him. Banks was very effusive with his praise, especially when it came to the way Ximines used his hands. Carl Banks certainly knows what it takes to play OLB in this league, but more than that, he's someone who tells it like it is. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. He's like the "anti-Dottino," lol.

So, while I still figure that X-Man will play primarily on special teams (barring any injuries to the veterans ahead of him on the depth chart), it could be that he'll get more opportunities as a situational pass-rusher than I'd first thought he'd get. I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops this year.

In comment 14492332 Klaatu said:

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I did a little post-draft research and was surprised to find that he'd been graded as high as was by several pundits. Initially, I thought he was a "reach," but the consensus was that he'd go in the 3rd Round, so not a reach at all. Still, I wasn't very high on him. I thought he was a big fish in a small pond, so to speak, feasting on competition that was less than NFL-caliber. Not very athletic...a little light in the pants. However, my opinion began to change when I listened to Carl Banks talk about him. Banks was very effusive with his praise, especially when it came to the way Ximines used his hands. Carl Banks certainly knows what it takes to play OLB in this league, but more than that, he's someone who tells it like it is. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. He's like the "anti-Dottino," lol. So, while I still figure that X-Man will play primarily on special teams (barring any injuries to the veterans ahead of him on the depth chart), it could be that he'll get more opportunities as a situational pass-rusher than I'd first thought he'd get. I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops this year.

If you watch the limited YouTube highlights of him, he pass-rush technique is extremely advanced for a collegiate player, especially one coming out of that program. It's not just his hand usage but the way he counters after setting the blocker up.

Ximines as an early 2nd round pick, FWIW.

Good or bad, it's clear Ximines will be counted on to provide a pass rush this year. I'd take a rookie with some upside over a washed up vet like Connor Barwin anyday.

(And I still think there's a decent chance they add a vet DE before week 1.)

In comment 14492343 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 14492332 Klaatu said: Quote: I did a little post-draft research and was surprised to find that he'd been graded as high as was by several pundits. Initially, I thought he was a "reach," but the consensus was that he'd go in the 3rd Round, so not a reach at all. Still, I wasn't very high on him. I thought he was a big fish in a small pond, so to speak, feasting on competition that was less than NFL-caliber. Not very athletic...a little light in the pants. However, my opinion began to change when I listened to Carl Banks talk about him. Banks was very effusive with his praise, especially when it came to the way Ximines used his hands. Carl Banks certainly knows what it takes to play OLB in this league, but more than that, he's someone who tells it like it is. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. He's like the "anti-Dottino," lol. So, while I still figure that X-Man will play primarily on special teams (barring any injuries to the veterans ahead of him on the depth chart), it could be that he'll get more opportunities as a situational pass-rusher than I'd first thought he'd get. I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops this year. If you watch the limited YouTube highlights of him, he pass-rush technique is extremely advanced for a collegiate player, especially one coming out of that program. It's not just his hand usage but the way he counters after setting the blocker up.

Yeah, Banks talked about that too, along with his variety of pass-rush moves. Said he's not a one-trick-pony when it comes to attacking opposing QB's. Honestly, I was very surprised to hear Banks gush over him.

I didn't put much stock in his highlights because of the level of competition he was facing, but if his technique is sound he's one step ahead of the game. Consensus was, though, that he needed to get stronger, but I suppose you could say that about a lot of rookies, especially those from smaller programs. He's a smart kid, though, so I figure he knows what he has to do to be successful.

That's

DexL/Hill/Tomlison/(Pierre/Mackintosh)

1 Slot/S/DB (love or someone)
1 lb/S/fs (Pepper's)
2 free safeties (Bethea plus choose one)
3 corners

Blitz one

In comment 14492311 Klaatu said:

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If, as several pundits have written, this is most likely Ogletree's last season with the Giants, we could conceivably see two new starting ILB's in 2020. The free agent market looks very promising and the Giants will have money to burn. I'd like to think that Ryan Connelly will develop into a solid starter, but that remains to be seen. The Giants seem to like Tae Davis a lot, but I thought he was pretty bad last year. Maybe he'll justify their apparent faith in him, maybe he won't. That remains to be seen, too.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Goodson get replaced as a starter by Connelly at some point this season. Don't forget that Goodson has had some persistent injury issues too.

The LB coaches' quotes on those two players are telling. He praises one of them and says the other needs to improve. I don't expect Connelly to start but he's going to see more and more reps as the season progresses. And I think he was drafted with the intent to replace Goodson next season. I doubt Goodson is on the Giants in 2020.

But with 4 bigs up front (not hamneggers though)

2 at level 2 that can actually perform zone pass D and are much faster than most lbs, (safeties by name)

and additional 5 legit DBs including 3 cover dbs

I would agree with 10-11 dbs on the final roster.

It will be a problem to see where they will cut to get there.

That is probably a good thing when you think about it.

I think there is a real possibility that they only go with 2 qbs. They will need one on the PS in that event.

I just don't see 8 lbs. If they like what they see in McLaurin or someone of that ilk as a cover lb they could classify him as a safety or a lb I guess.

I also don't see them carrying 4 TEs. Just no place for a pure blocking TE the way the game is played now

I could see them incorporating a RB like Rod Smith into a multi-role short yardage back, blocker, Move TE etc. in lieu of one of your 4 TE slots. They may have to say good bye to Penny.

I would expect to see 6 WRs on the final roster. Our wideouts seem to suffer a lot of injuries. DG invested in the OL and QB so he can't cut corners now on weapons at wr imo.

We will see as a certain President likes to say.... :>)

I believe the Giants have high hopes for this guy although as a fan he hasn't shown me much. If and thats a big "if" he can turn into a reliable player it would fill a big hole in our LB boat.

Giants were near the bottom of the league in sacks but close to the middle in terms of creating pressure. So was it the rush or the DBs? I suspect it was as much the latter as the former. If you can't cover it is very tough to get home. Hopefully, both ends of coverage are improved this year.

they don't do anything particularly well whether that's playing run, pass or some hybrid/zone.

Hopefully Carter and Ximines turn into better than average players because the rest will not. Ogletree was very unimpressive in his overall play, sans several fantastic one-off interceptions. Buts that not what you rely upon when evaluating a very high-priced LB.

We play a 3-4 Defense and are in Linebacker-hell...

legacy of great linebackers is 30 years old. Sure, they've had some good linebackers since the 1990 season, but not really a devastating linebacking corp like they had during the Parcells era.

"Most believe the Giants are screwed here as they lack the talent to get after the quarterback... Inside, the problems remain the same. The team has been inconsistent stopping the run and atrocious covering tight ends for years."

I have high hopes for Lo Carter in Year 2 and very intrigued by what we may have in Oshane Ximines.

But in the end, I am one of the "most" who believe "the Giants are screwed..." at the LBer position.

The Giants are still in re-build mode. They need more talent and depth along the O-Line; more depth along the D-Line and a serious infusion of new talent at LBer.

In comment 14492523 Jimmy Googs said:

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they don't do anything particularly well whether that's playing run, pass or some hybrid/zone. Hopefully Carter and Ximines turn into better than average players because the rest will not. Ogletree was very unimpressive in his overall play, sans several fantastic one-off interceptions. Buts that not what you rely upon when evaluating a very high-priced LB. We play a 3-4 Defense and are in Linebacker-hell...

Yep... this the long and the short of it: we are in "Linebacker-hell."

In comment 14492319 Eric from BBI said:
[quote] I still see them carrying 10-11 defensive backs.

Right now

Agree with Eric.

One backup per spot is really not a lot of LBs. They are needed for specials. You can’t have a bunch of DBs covering kick returns

just mishitting on lb’ers. as a result it’s a depleted corps that makes it hard to play giant ‘d’. hopefully we have some safety types who can fill gaps and tackle and others who can blitz and rush the passer. we have three outside players one x man and one in his second year and the veteran markus who might help in pass rush. Ogeltree can play the run but not much coverage.

maybe by some miracle we can shut down the middle of the field in 3rd and 5 etc situations. the open middle has killed us for years.

ot optimistic and ‘d’ remains weakest part of giant teams compared now to specials and offense. lb’er weakest unit on team.

...what we've got at LBer vs. what the Cowboys can trot out there every Sunday (Leighton Vander Esch and Jaylon Smith).

Its defensive line, and its secondary, in that it's a unit that is essentially being constructed from scratch, with construction having begun in 2018. To expect a complete rebuild in two years is unrealistic. Clearly, the priorities have been the defensive line and the secondary, along with premium picks for RB and QB, although greater consideration has been given to the LB's than was seen with the previous regime.

I reject the notion that the Giants are in "Linebacker Hell," though. It's more like "Linebacker Purgatory" for the time being. I suspect that the next offseason will see a much greater emphasis put on both the LB corps and the O-Line. At this point, that's pretty much all we can hope for. Nevertheless, there are still reasons for optimism.

In comment 14492319 Eric from BBI said:

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I still see them carrying 10-11 defensive backs. Right now, I have... 3 QB 4 RB/FB 5 WR 4 TE 9 OL 6 DL 8 LB 10 DB 3 P/K/LS It's that last spot... extra WR, LB, DB? Right now, I'm going with Dungey but that's just a shot in the dark.

I'd subtract one OL. I think they'll go with five starters and three backups, like last season. I doubt that any Giants OL placed on the PS will be poached by another team, no matter how desperate the league is for OL's. That leaves two spots for an additional WR and LB/DB.

I don't like going with only eight OLs. I think one of the guys who are not on our radar will do enough to stick. I'm personally pulling for Adams as I think he has the most upside.

If he plays anywhere like be did before his ACL then we might be better then we expect.

Yeah, I would feel more comfortable with 9 OL particularly if one or more of the young guys show promise.

I'm talking O'Hagen, Adams, and Asafo-Adjei.

It would be awesome if the Jints could actually develop a young OL on their own instead of constantly having to overspend in the FA market.

Centers and OT's are valued. If one or more of the above show promise in Camp I don't know if we can sneak them through waivers and onto the PS.

forget about Droogsma either.

In comment 14493233 mittenedman said:

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forget about Droogsma either.

I'd be absolutely shocked if he is even under consideration. He's been out of football for five years.

In comment 14493128 Eric from BBI said:

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I don't like going with only eight OLs. I think one of the guys who are not on our radar will do enough to stick. I'm personally pulling for Adams as I think he has the most upside.

So, keep him and another OT/OG (like Big George), plus a C/OG (like Evan Brown). It's not like #9 is going to be active on gameday, anyway. And, as I said, I doubt that any OL on our PS is going to be poached by another team, but on the off chance that they are, who cares? What are the odds that three late-round/UDFA guys are going to amount to anything? One might, sure. Maybe even two...maybe. But three? No way.

The Giants need to get some top-tier talent for their O-Line, and it will be available next offseason in free agency and the draft. What they don't need are any more projects. They have plenty of those already. Keeping an extra one on the roster is pointless, in my view, and wastes a roster spot that could be filled with a more productive player.

Is anybody signing Tanney? He should be available if need be. Is Lauletta eligible for the PS?

4 TEs seem like a lot if we are also keeping a FB.

And then sign him to the Practice Squad, like they did with Avery Moss.

In comment 14493245 robbieballs2003 said:

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Is anybody signing Tanney? He should be available if need be. Is Lauletta eligible for the PS? 4 TEs seem like a lot if we are also keeping a FB.

Not if you consider Evan Engram more of a WR.

In comment 14493027 Klaatu said:

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I reject the notion that the Giants are in "Linebacker Hell," though. It's more like "Linebacker Purgatory" for the time being.

quite the rejection...

they will need everything to click "as hoped" for the defense to be be above average:

1) Return to form of Golden
2) huge step up from year one for Carter
3) Xman having some pass rush ability at NFL level
4) Excellent play from the Big 3 and their relief team on the DL (Tomlinson, Hill, and Lawrence) to protect Ogletree and whoever else plays ILB to keep opposition OL off them.
5) Excellent coverage skills from day 1 from the rookie DBS and Haley.
6) Peppers playing up to his athletic ability in coverage, and Bethea playing beyond his athletic limitations at his age...

It's a tall order, very tall.

One wonders if Betcher has a large enough van filled with smoke and mirrors to make this work in 2019. But it's not impossible.

and Olsen Pierre play at a high enough level to supply a serious # of relief snaps to the big 3, or the big 3 will wear down over the season, and in games where the Giants don't control the TOP.

I could add the offense needs to sustain drives far better than they did in 2018, too.

Hey Guys, I'm new to this site. Jut wanted to say hi, and to see how things work around here. Oh, and yes, I'm worried about our LBs too! Looking forward to joining another Giants community. ClayfromBklyn