Here's the thing - you can't chalk up his slowness and lack of explosiveness to being 19 or it being Summer League. That's a very real problem that isn't going to go away. As an average at best athlete by league standards, he's going to have to max out his skill set to be a plus player, and he's got a long way to go to do that. He's much more of a project than his boosters cared to admit, and what we've seen so far (mediocre athleticism, horrid shooting, poor shot selection) shouldn't have come as a surprise, because they were all things he showed in college. It's just that the level of competition in college wasn't high enough to take advantage of his drawbacks.
I'm actually one of the seemingly rare members on BBI who seems to believe it's still too early to judge someone like Frank. I still hold out hope that Frank will turn into a solid 3 and D type player. That being said, so far to me RJ kind of reminds me of Frank but without Frank's passing or defense.
Secondly, people seem to be implying that RJ will start. Again, it's way too early to pass judgement on him, but if RJ continues playing like he has these last two games I absolutely do not believe he should be a started. If the Knicks truly want to have a culture of competition and earned minutes I don't believe they can gift a player a starting spot solely based on draft position.
i mean most arent even playing but the ones playing arent doing well. Coby White has played ok i guess. Zion was 4-9 in his one half on like all dunks. Hunter stunk in his debut (guess he is a bum), Rui was ehh. I mean i agree the second straight dud scares me, but there is literally not a lottery pick playing well in summer league yet. These guys have a ton of pressure on them and they are playing their first "pro" ball.
Tyler Herro has played well compared to other lottery picks. Gives Devin Booker vibe
The combination of mediocre athleticism, mediocre shooting ability Â
I'm actually one of the seemingly rare members on BBI who seems to believe it's still too early to judge someone like Frank. I still hold out hope that Frank will turn into a solid 3 and D type player. That being said, so far to me RJ kind of reminds me of Frank but without Frank's passing or defense.
Oh give me a break. RJ proved at the collegiate level he's a better passer than Frank, and is a way better rebounder. What everyone is forgetting is RJ's floor game. Its very solid. Yes his shooting and shot selection suffers at times, but he will get his teamtes involved. Frank a better playmaker? Thats about the best attempt at comedy I've seen all day.
I'm actually one of the seemingly rare members on BBI who seems to believe it's still too early to judge someone like Frank. I still hold out hope that Frank will turn into a solid 3 and D type player. That being said, so far to me RJ kind of reminds me of Frank but without Frank's passing or defense.
Secondly, people seem to be implying that RJ will start. Again, it's way too early to pass judgement on him, but if RJ continues playing like he has these last two games I absolutely do not believe he should be a started. If the Knicks truly want to have a culture of competition and earned minutes I don't believe they can gift a player a starting spot solely based on draft position.
Frank 29% from 3 this season, long, long way to go to believe he can be that.
i'm going to be pissed. that was my main issue with all the vet signings.
Everyone says you drafted the kid for his attitude / work ethic. He said he wanted to play in New York. Frankly he wasn't as there in his athleticism or polish in parts of his game but went 3 for those things. Some players that have higher skill levels and lack the "personality" yeah, you handle with kid gloves. But this kid you have to throw in the fire I think.(Not to say if he has 8 turnovers you don't pull him aside and chew him out a few times though)
I really don't mind him taking some shots trying to find his. (not an insane amount but 15-20 seems more than fine to me, more if he is having a good game)
In 2 games, his selection at #3 based on his athleticism and ability to score is reduced to him being a slow, unathletic slob. Sabonis in a much smaller frame!!
By the time the regular season starts, he'll be Greg Luzinski with the roundball......
Since you've chosen this as the hill to die on..... Â
I'm actually one of the seemingly rare members on BBI who seems to believe it's still too early to judge someone like Frank. I still hold out hope that Frank will turn into a solid 3 and D type player. That being said, so far to me RJ kind of reminds me of Frank but without Frank's passing or defense.
Oh give me a break. RJ proved at the collegiate level he's a better passer than Frank, and is a way better rebounder. What everyone is forgetting is RJ's floor game. Its very solid. Yes his shooting and shot selection suffers at times, but he will get his teammates involved. Frank a better playmaker? That's about the best attempt at comedy I've seen all day.
I actually thought that when Anak called Knox a magician because of the way he disappears was the best comedy of the day. As for the rest of it, it's clear that I don't watch as much basketball. I actually cannot tolerate the college game. If RJ showed better playmaking in college I am not in a position to disagree. My only point, which was partially in jest thanks for noticing, was that Frank and RJ move similarly, at least from my perspective, with what little I have seen so far.
He seems lost and very indecisive.
He definitely is in his own head instead of playing his game.
You can see he is looking to pass first even on drives, defensively he is always looking for the switch.
You see his skill on set plays that call his number.
IMO asking him to bring the ball up compounded it last night.
In contrast, Iggy is F#$k it, I am scoring and is on the edge of reckless taking to the rim.
RE: If RJ doesn't start (or play some of the highest minutes) Â
i'm going to be pissed. that was my main issue with all the vet signings.
Everyone says you drafted the kid for his attitude / work ethic. He said he wanted to play in New York. Frankly he wasn't as there in his athleticism or polish in parts of his game but went 3 for those things. Some players that have higher skill levels and lack the "personality" yeah, you handle with kid gloves. But this kid you have to throw in the fire I think.(Not to say if he has 8 turnovers you don't pull him aside and chew him out a few times though)
I really don't mind him taking some shots trying to find his. (not an insane amount but 15-20 seems more than fine to me, more if he is having a good game)
I actually think that the best approach for a young guy like RJ (this goes for Knox, Frank, DSJ, etc) is to make them earn their playing time at least early on in the season. IMO a big issue with their approach to Knox last year and his resulting struggles came as a result of giving him a long leash and not running any sort of offense. We've seen it time and time again in the NBA where players who come in as raw prospects with flaws need structure and need to play within the flow of a team's offense to get going and properly develop. I think it was Ben Falk (former Sixers and Blazers FO exec who runs cleaningtheglass.com) who made a similar point about Oladipo's early struggles with the Magic and becoming a late bloomer in Indiana. That's why i liked the approach the Knicks took this offseason.
Also, Barrett often gets compared to DeMar DeRozan who really struggled for the first couple of years of his career. Hopefully Barrett's development doesn't take as long but two summer league games is hardly something to freak out about. At least give it to the end of summer league before bringing out the pitchforks.
Do you need metrics to tell you if a guy is quick or not? Â
He's not particularly quick. He wasn't particularly quick all last year in Durham. You either have that or you don't.
And yes, he's at least as good an athlete as Doncic, but his skills aren't on Doncic's level at this point. I never said he COULDN'T make that kind of improvement, but that he's further away from developing into a plus player than his fans have been willing to admit. He was never a sure-thing star coming into the draft, no matter what his high school ranking was. He has glaring flaws right now, and middling athleticism is one that he probably isn't going to improve. He absolutely can improve his shot, shot selection, and defense but it will be a long, difficult process.
seems really weak on defense and just downright helpless sometimes. Still really young, I know.
I agree. Knox has a good outside shot, but isn't a good finisher. Both his shooting and finishing can improve, but the key to his success is improving his terrible defense.
I'm not making any proclamations off of 2 summer league games, but what you see has to be concerning. I'm not expecting a polished NBA all star, but I would like to see some flashes and his athleticism doesn't look good. Has he had any dunks in traffic yet? Or just any dunks? Some of those fast breaks where he didn't attack or just failed to go over any guys was what really stood out to me.
He also looks really big. Not fat, just tall/ big... much more of a forward than a wing/guard. Just my initial impressions...
that some of these top lottery picks are out of shape and probably haven't put as much time in the gym over the last 3 weeks. Since their last team workouts before the draft, I imagine that many of them have spent a lot of time getting their professional affairs in order, meeting with brand sponsors, business managers, team representatives, team sponsors, finding places to live, celebrating their dreams coming true, traveling on behalf of the NBA, etc.
RJ had some very obvious holes in his shooting game that were clear as day at Duke.
He's not a great catch and shooter, which really limits his effectiveness without the ball in his hand. He's really savvy without the ball, but if he's not a threat to knock down parameter shots, it's much easier to cheat defending him.
He's a much better iso than catch shooter. But that's going to really frustrate some fans if he's the primary ball handler -- he's got stretches where he's really looking to score first and despite being an excellent passer he's not always looking for the open guy.
I think he's going to be a really good scorer in the league, and if the Knicks fix his shot, he's going to be a really good player. I think the Harden comparisons are spot-on.
RJ had some very obvious holes in his shooting game that were clear as day at Duke.
He's not a great catch and shooter, which really limits his effectiveness without the ball in his hand. He's really savvy without the ball, but if he's not a threat to knock down parameter shots, it's much easier to cheat defending him.
He's a much better iso than catch shooter. But that's going to really frustrate some fans if he's the primary ball handler -- he's got stretches where he's really looking to score first and despite being an excellent passer he's not always looking for the open guy.
I think he's going to be a really good scorer in the league, and if the Knicks fix his shot, he's going to be a really good player. I think the Harden comparisons are spot-on.
He just changed his shooting mechanics so I think it's okay to not expect him to have that nailed down right now. Hopefully he keeps working on it and we see some strides come preseason.
I thinkni need to stop listening to sports radio and reading Â
that some of these top lottery picks are out of shape and probably haven't put as much time in the gym over the last 3 weeks. Since their last team workouts before the draft, I imagine that many of them have spent a lot of time getting their professional affairs in order, meeting with brand sponsors, business managers, team representatives, team sponsors, finding places to live, celebrating their dreams coming true, traveling on behalf of the NBA, etc.
This was part of the first broadcast against the Pelicans. They were making the point that Zion was out of shape because he's been on media and business tours since the draft. I'd imagine it's probably true for Barrett too. They haven't played basketball aside from workouts since the last college game.
"There's a lot we don't know about RJ Barrett, but there's something we do know. He hasn't been working on his game, or learning how to play this game. Not uncommon with super-hyped draft picks. They have been busy making appearances. Lower picks and others have been working. Hard
I'm not saying he's awful. It's more of an indictment of the process. I saw D Rose struggle so mightily in his first game because he had no clue how to play w ballscreens. The Bulls sat him every game after. I saw John Wall's first training camp. Totally unprepared.
I'm sure RJ has been on a whirlwind of trips. Didn't have to be super sharp for his workouts either. All that is over. The game demands incredible investments of time. I've heard he's a terrific kid and I'm sure he will learn from this. But learn he must. And work.
Everything looks awful, skill and craft wise. Attacked crowds. Looked slow. Shot is a mess. His size is a plus if indeed his skill game develops. He's very young. Tons of upside. He'd be wise to rest until Aug and then go to work
I don't know much about much. But when it comes to this, I do have some experience. I started that tweet acknowledging there isn't a lot we know about RJ. I wrote that intentionally. Not judging yet. Our elite guys tend to struggle in early July. That's the point.
Wiggins is a far more exceptional athlete. His failure is sickening. I am not telling anyone that RJ will or won't be great. I have not watched him enough to know. I was commenting on how he looks now, and how his command of what he should be able to do is absent."
Has no where near the athleticism of Wiggins. RJ athleticism reminds me of a little worse then Melo coming out of college. It’s athletic enough, but no where Benin the stratosphere of melo’s offensive capabilities. If Melo was a little more athletic he could have been one of the greats.
how do you guys confidently state what RJ's athleticism is? You really are making it sound like he's just a terrible player that can't shoot, guard or be able to get to the basket because he's too slow and unathletic.
It is really a lot of bunk. It's a lot like the bullshit said about Daniel Jones before he ever stepped on a practice field - his arm sucks. He's slow at decision-making, yada yada yada.
You are taking one of the attributes of why RJ was drafted and saying he simply doesn't have a level of athleticism capable of competing in the NBA.
Has no where near the athleticism of Wiggins. RJ athleticism reminds me of a little worse then Melo coming out of college. It’s athletic enough, but no where Benin the stratosphere of melo’s offensive capabilities. If Melo was a little more athletic he could have been one of the greats.
More athleticism would have been nice for Melo, but a lack of fitness, inclination to pass or defend made him what he was...a scorer but a losing or net negative player.
Has no where near the athleticism of Wiggins. RJ athleticism reminds me of a little worse then Melo coming out of college. It’s athletic enough, but no where Benin the stratosphere of melo’s offensive capabilities. If Melo was a little more athletic he could have been one of the greats.
I'm sorry but Melo's athleticism didn't hinder his career in the slightest. His own ego did him in.
almost unfathomable how disappointing Wiggins is given his physical gifts. His shot selection is bizarre. He takes a ton of long jumpers despite that being a low % shot. His defense is horrendous despite being a MONSTER athlete. I'd still likely swap Barrett for Wiggins if not for the contract (one of the worst in the NBA).
#19 all time in NBA scoring, 10 time all star, but a net negative player. Carried the Nuggets to the playoffs (and almost the finals) for his entire career. Carried the Knicks to relevance for a few seasons. Yet...a net negative player.
that Barrett could somehow become Carmelo Anthony and folks wouldn't sign up for that...I think i'd sign up for RJ Barrett becoming a Hall of Famer right now if i could.
almost unfathomable how disappointing Wiggins is given his physical gifts. His shot selection is bizarre. He takes a ton of long jumpers despite that being a low % shot. His defense is horrendous despite being a MONSTER athlete. I'd still likely swap Barrett for Wiggins if not for the contract (one of the worst in the NBA).
I STRONGLY disagree with this. There's enough of a sample size with Wiggins that I'll take a lottery ticket over what he is any day. He's passive, doesn't seem to work hard, and lackadaisical out there. Those things rarely change 5 years into a player's career.
The Nuggets made the playoffs 7 years in a row when he was on the team and made a run at the Lakers in the conference finals at the height of his career.
People like to think of Melo as his last 2-3 seasons on the Knicks. He was an all time great NBA player.
almost unfathomable how disappointing Wiggins is given his physical gifts. His shot selection is bizarre. He takes a ton of long jumpers despite that being a low % shot. His defense is horrendous despite being a MONSTER athlete. I'd still likely swap Barrett for Wiggins if not for the contract (one of the worst in the NBA).
I STRONGLY disagree with this. There's enough of a sample size with Wiggins that I'll take a lottery ticket over what he is any day. He's passive, doesn't seem to work hard, and lackadaisical out there. Those things rarely change 5 years into a player's career.
Wiggins has played for 4 coaches in 5 seasons. It's a toss up to me but Wiggins has the tools to still be special and despite disappointing still put up back to back 16.5 PER seasons at 20 and 21. I'm not overly confident through 400 games RJ Barrett is at 19.4 points 4.3 boards on 44/33% shooting.
almost unfathomable how disappointing Wiggins is given his physical gifts. His shot selection is bizarre. He takes a ton of long jumpers despite that being a low % shot. His defense is horrendous despite being a MONSTER athlete. I'd still likely swap Barrett for Wiggins if not for the contract (one of the worst in the NBA).
I STRONGLY disagree with this. There's enough of a sample size with Wiggins that I'll take a lottery ticket over what he is any day. He's passive, doesn't seem to work hard, and lackadaisical out there. Those things rarely change 5 years into a player's career.
Wiggins has played for 4 coaches in 5 seasons. It's a toss up to me but Wiggins has the tools to still be special and despite disappointing still put up back to back 16.5 PER seasons at 20 and 21. I'm not overly confident through 400 games RJ Barrett is at 19.4 points 4.3 boards on 44/33% shooting.
He's never posted a positive VORP or BPM season. I don't want that guy on my team. Barrett might wind up being a net negative too but at least there's the possibility that he won't be. PER doesn't do a good job of capturing defensive impact where Wiggins has been horrid.
The Wolves would absolutely fall all over themselves to trade Â
Yeah because of the awful contract which I already mentioned. Not because of the talent/skillset.
Well, sure it's the contract. But, I don't think anyone expects 24 year old RJ Barrett to be one of the lowest Hoops IQ players in the league. Even if Barrett's rate stats only get to Wiggins level efficiency, his rebounding and assist and non horrible D will make him better than Wiggins.
RE: RE: Remind me because I forget, did Carmelo ever Â
The Nuggets made the playoffs 7 years in a row when he was on the team and made a run at the Lakers in the conference finals at the height of his career.
People like to think of Melo as his last 2-3 seasons on the Knicks. He was an all time great NBA player.
Carmelo Anthony has the worst winning percentage for any player in NBA history with at least 50 playoff games. Anthony's teams have a 16-36 (.308) record during his playoff career with the Nuggets and Knicks.
52 playoff games in 17 years for the ultimate ME player...good riddance was what all of his teams and their fan bases said as he was shown the door.
Cmon, man - it doesn't take years of trained scouting experience to be able to see if a guy has explosion or not.
Secondly, people seem to be implying that RJ will start. Again, it's way too early to pass judgement on him, but if RJ continues playing like he has these last two games I absolutely do not believe he should be a started. If the Knicks truly want to have a culture of competition and earned minutes I don't believe they can gift a player a starting spot solely based on draft position.
Tyler Herro has played well compared to other lottery picks. Gives Devin Booker vibe
Oh give me a break. RJ proved at the collegiate level he's a better passer than Frank, and is a way better rebounder. What everyone is forgetting is RJ's floor game. Its very solid. Yes his shooting and shot selection suffers at times, but he will get his teamtes involved. Frank a better playmaker? Thats about the best attempt at comedy I've seen all day.
Secondly, people seem to be implying that RJ will start. Again, it's way too early to pass judgement on him, but if RJ continues playing like he has these last two games I absolutely do not believe he should be a started. If the Knicks truly want to have a culture of competition and earned minutes I don't believe they can gift a player a starting spot solely based on draft position.
Frank 29% from 3 this season, long, long way to go to believe he can be that.
Everyone says you drafted the kid for his attitude / work ethic. He said he wanted to play in New York. Frankly he wasn't as there in his athleticism or polish in parts of his game but went 3 for those things. Some players that have higher skill levels and lack the "personality" yeah, you handle with kid gloves. But this kid you have to throw in the fire I think.(Not to say if he has 8 turnovers you don't pull him aside and chew him out a few times though)
I really don't mind him taking some shots trying to find his. (not an insane amount but 15-20 seems more than fine to me, more if he is having a good game)
In 2 games, his selection at #3 based on his athleticism and ability to score is reduced to him being a slow, unathletic slob. Sabonis in a much smaller frame!!
By the time the regular season starts, he'll be Greg Luzinski with the roundball......
He's not even 20 and we are projecting exactly what his athleticism is going to be and using very defined metrics like "explosion".....
Quote:
I'm actually one of the seemingly rare members on BBI who seems to believe it's still too early to judge someone like Frank. I still hold out hope that Frank will turn into a solid 3 and D type player. That being said, so far to me RJ kind of reminds me of Frank but without Frank's passing or defense.
Oh give me a break. RJ proved at the collegiate level he's a better passer than Frank, and is a way better rebounder. What everyone is forgetting is RJ's floor game. Its very solid. Yes his shooting and shot selection suffers at times, but he will get his teammates involved. Frank a better playmaker? That's about the best attempt at comedy I've seen all day.
I actually thought that when Anak called Knox a magician because of the way he disappears was the best comedy of the day. As for the rest of it, it's clear that I don't watch as much basketball. I actually cannot tolerate the college game. If RJ showed better playmaking in college I am not in a position to disagree. My only point, which was partially in jest thanks for noticing, was that Frank and RJ move similarly, at least from my perspective, with what little I have seen so far.
He definitely is in his own head instead of playing his game.
You can see he is looking to pass first even on drives, defensively he is always looking for the switch.
You see his skill on set plays that call his number.
IMO asking him to bring the ball up compounded it last night.
In contrast, Iggy is F#$k it, I am scoring and is on the edge of reckless taking to the rim.
Everyone says you drafted the kid for his attitude / work ethic. He said he wanted to play in New York. Frankly he wasn't as there in his athleticism or polish in parts of his game but went 3 for those things. Some players that have higher skill levels and lack the "personality" yeah, you handle with kid gloves. But this kid you have to throw in the fire I think.(Not to say if he has 8 turnovers you don't pull him aside and chew him out a few times though)
I really don't mind him taking some shots trying to find his. (not an insane amount but 15-20 seems more than fine to me, more if he is having a good game)
I actually think that the best approach for a young guy like RJ (this goes for Knox, Frank, DSJ, etc) is to make them earn their playing time at least early on in the season. IMO a big issue with their approach to Knox last year and his resulting struggles came as a result of giving him a long leash and not running any sort of offense. We've seen it time and time again in the NBA where players who come in as raw prospects with flaws need structure and need to play within the flow of a team's offense to get going and properly develop. I think it was Ben Falk (former Sixers and Blazers FO exec who runs cleaningtheglass.com) who made a similar point about Oladipo's early struggles with the Magic and becoming a late bloomer in Indiana. That's why i liked the approach the Knicks took this offseason.
Also, Barrett often gets compared to DeMar DeRozan who really struggled for the first couple of years of his career. Hopefully Barrett's development doesn't take as long but two summer league games is hardly something to freak out about. At least give it to the end of summer league before bringing out the pitchforks.
And yes, he's at least as good an athlete as Doncic, but his skills aren't on Doncic's level at this point. I never said he COULDN'T make that kind of improvement, but that he's further away from developing into a plus player than his fans have been willing to admit. He was never a sure-thing star coming into the draft, no matter what his high school ranking was. He has glaring flaws right now, and middling athleticism is one that he probably isn't going to improve. He absolutely can improve his shot, shot selection, and defense but it will be a long, difficult process.
I agree. Knox has a good outside shot, but isn't a good finisher. Both his shooting and finishing can improve, but the key to his success is improving his terrible defense.
He also looks really big. Not fat, just tall/ big... much more of a forward than a wing/guard. Just my initial impressions...
He's not a great catch and shooter, which really limits his effectiveness without the ball in his hand. He's really savvy without the ball, but if he's not a threat to knock down parameter shots, it's much easier to cheat defending him.
He's a much better iso than catch shooter. But that's going to really frustrate some fans if he's the primary ball handler -- he's got stretches where he's really looking to score first and despite being an excellent passer he's not always looking for the open guy.
I think he's going to be a really good scorer in the league, and if the Knicks fix his shot, he's going to be a really good player. I think the Harden comparisons are spot-on.
He's not a great catch and shooter, which really limits his effectiveness without the ball in his hand. He's really savvy without the ball, but if he's not a threat to knock down parameter shots, it's much easier to cheat defending him.
He's a much better iso than catch shooter. But that's going to really frustrate some fans if he's the primary ball handler -- he's got stretches where he's really looking to score first and despite being an excellent passer he's not always looking for the open guy.
I think he's going to be a really good scorer in the league, and if the Knicks fix his shot, he's going to be a really good player. I think the Harden comparisons are spot-on.
He just changed his shooting mechanics so I think it's okay to not expect him to have that nailed down right now. Hopefully he keeps working on it and we see some strides come preseason.
Some of the takes are just moronic..i am taking a break from posting..
This was part of the first broadcast against the Pelicans. They were making the point that Zion was out of shape because he's been on media and business tours since the draft. I'd imagine it's probably true for Barrett too. They haven't played basketball aside from workouts since the last college game.
I'm not saying he's awful. It's more of an indictment of the process. I saw D Rose struggle so mightily in his first game because he had no clue how to play w ballscreens. The Bulls sat him every game after. I saw John Wall's first training camp. Totally unprepared.
I'm sure RJ has been on a whirlwind of trips. Didn't have to be super sharp for his workouts either. All that is over. The game demands incredible investments of time. I've heard he's a terrific kid and I'm sure he will learn from this. But learn he must. And work.
Everything looks awful, skill and craft wise. Attacked crowds. Looked slow. Shot is a mess. His size is a plus if indeed his skill game develops. He's very young. Tons of upside. He'd be wise to rest until Aug and then go to work
I don't know much about much. But when it comes to this, I do have some experience. I started that tweet acknowledging there isn't a lot we know about RJ. I wrote that intentionally. Not judging yet. Our elite guys tend to struggle in early July. That's the point.
Wiggins is a far more exceptional athlete. His failure is sickening. I am not telling anyone that RJ will or won't be great. I have not watched him enough to know. I was commenting on how he looks now, and how his command of what he should be able to do is absent."
It is really a lot of bunk. It's a lot like the bullshit said about Daniel Jones before he ever stepped on a practice field - his arm sucks. He's slow at decision-making, yada yada yada.
You are taking one of the attributes of why RJ was drafted and saying he simply doesn't have a level of athleticism capable of competing in the NBA.
It is patently absurd.
More athleticism would have been nice for Melo, but a lack of fitness, inclination to pass or defend made him what he was...a scorer but a losing or net negative player.
I'm sorry but Melo's athleticism didn't hinder his career in the slightest. His own ego did him in.
I STRONGLY disagree with this. There's enough of a sample size with Wiggins that I'll take a lottery ticket over what he is any day. He's passive, doesn't seem to work hard, and lackadaisical out there. Those things rarely change 5 years into a player's career.
Don't panic, RJ will be OK.
Player A) 19.7 points 5.6 boards 3.5 assists on 44.5% shooting, 37% from 3, 19.7 PER, .157 WS/48
Player B) 24.0 points 6.5 boards 3.0 assists on 44.9% shooting, 35% from 3, 20.3 PER, .127 WS/48
One is seen as a winning all-time great who won a ring playing with 2 other HOFers and the other is a "loser" who mostly played with crap.
Don't panic, RJ will be OK.
The Nuggets made the playoffs 7 years in a row when he was on the team and made a run at the Lakers in the conference finals at the height of his career.
People like to think of Melo as his last 2-3 seasons on the Knicks. He was an all time great NBA player.
Quote:
almost unfathomable how disappointing Wiggins is given his physical gifts. His shot selection is bizarre. He takes a ton of long jumpers despite that being a low % shot. His defense is horrendous despite being a MONSTER athlete. I'd still likely swap Barrett for Wiggins if not for the contract (one of the worst in the NBA).
I STRONGLY disagree with this. There's enough of a sample size with Wiggins that I'll take a lottery ticket over what he is any day. He's passive, doesn't seem to work hard, and lackadaisical out there. Those things rarely change 5 years into a player's career.
Wiggins has played for 4 coaches in 5 seasons. It's a toss up to me but Wiggins has the tools to still be special and despite disappointing still put up back to back 16.5 PER seasons at 20 and 21. I'm not overly confident through 400 games RJ Barrett is at 19.4 points 4.3 boards on 44/33% shooting.
Quote:
In comment 14494515 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
almost unfathomable how disappointing Wiggins is given his physical gifts. His shot selection is bizarre. He takes a ton of long jumpers despite that being a low % shot. His defense is horrendous despite being a MONSTER athlete. I'd still likely swap Barrett for Wiggins if not for the contract (one of the worst in the NBA).
I STRONGLY disagree with this. There's enough of a sample size with Wiggins that I'll take a lottery ticket over what he is any day. He's passive, doesn't seem to work hard, and lackadaisical out there. Those things rarely change 5 years into a player's career.
Wiggins has played for 4 coaches in 5 seasons. It's a toss up to me but Wiggins has the tools to still be special and despite disappointing still put up back to back 16.5 PER seasons at 20 and 21. I'm not overly confident through 400 games RJ Barrett is at 19.4 points 4.3 boards on 44/33% shooting.
He's never posted a positive VORP or BPM season. I don't want that guy on my team. Barrett might wind up being a net negative too but at least there's the possibility that he won't be. PER doesn't do a good job of capturing defensive impact where Wiggins has been horrid.
Yeah because of the awful contract which I already mentioned. Not because of the talent/skillset.
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Wiggins for Barrett. Shockingly bad take.
Yeah because of the awful contract which I already mentioned. Not because of the talent/skillset.
Well, sure it's the contract. But, I don't think anyone expects 24 year old RJ Barrett to be one of the lowest Hoops IQ players in the league. Even if Barrett's rate stats only get to Wiggins level efficiency, his rebounding and assist and non horrible D will make him better than Wiggins.
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bring out the best in other teammates?
Don't panic, RJ will be OK.
The Nuggets made the playoffs 7 years in a row when he was on the team and made a run at the Lakers in the conference finals at the height of his career.
People like to think of Melo as his last 2-3 seasons on the Knicks. He was an all time great NBA player.
Carmelo Anthony has the worst winning percentage for any player in NBA history with at least 50 playoff games. Anthony's teams have a 16-36 (.308) record during his playoff career with the Nuggets and Knicks.
52 playoff games in 17 years for the ultimate ME player...good riddance was what all of his teams and their fan bases said as he was shown the door.