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NFT: Knicks Chat: Some love for Kenny Wooten

DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 10:06 am
Meet Kenny Wooten.

Wooten, the power forward from Oregon, has looked impressive as an athletic defender during the team’s first two summer-league games, blocking four shots in 24 minutes.

The 21-year-old was likely earmarked for the Knicks at No. 55 had they not traded up in the second round to No. 47 to nab Ignas Brazdeikis, who pumped in 30 points in Sunday’s overtime loss to Phoenix.

They got Wooten anyway when he fell through the draft after he made a surprising decision to leave school instead of going back to the Ducks for his junior year.

“They told me about that,’’ Wooten said about the Knicks’ plan to take him at 55. “But I’m glad they got Iggy. You saw what he did right now [scoring 30 points in Sunday’s loss to the Suns]. I’m proud of him. I have no complaints. [Trading up] was a really smart choice.”



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Westbrook...  
Jan in DC : 7/9/2019 11:21 am : link
doesn't make sense for the Knicks. We're on a different timeline that his career.

Wooten was really active around the basket in the minutes he got in our second game. I wonder if there's a space for him on the roster?

Also, Robinson has to chill out with the goaltendings the rest of summer league.
RE: RE: Why have the Knicks FA moves not been made official?  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14495019 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 14495008 Chris684 said:


Quote:


..


Per NBA.com, all but Bullock have been made official as of this morning. I'm guessing there's some logistical thing with Bullock.

Where's you see that? I couldn't find anything
RE: Westbrook...  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14495098 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
doesn't make sense for the Knicks. We're on a different timeline that his career.

Wooten was really active around the basket in the minutes he got in our second game. I wonder if there's a space for him on the roster?

Also, Robinson has to chill out with the goaltendings the rest of summer league.


14 guaranteed deals + Allen (heavy favorite) and Wilkes on a 2 way... seems extremely unlikely to break camp with them
I think those teams...  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 11:25 am : link
are significantly better then MIA would be. If you said compete for the 3 seed i woudlnt argue with it though, ha.
Here's the info on the Knicks signings  
bceagle05 : 7/9/2019 11:26 am : link
with other links in the text.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Here's the info on the Knicks signings  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 11:28 am : link
In comment 14495108 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
with other links in the text. Link - ( New Window )

Thanks. Odd that they haven't issued a press release as they typically do.
Nobody is going to want to be the one holding the Westbrook contract  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/9/2019 11:29 am : link
when he ages. His game is all about his athletic ability.
Westbrook  
TyreeHelmet : 7/9/2019 11:29 am : link
My point is if its a salary dump or close to it ( protected future 1st with expirings)- I think the Knicks would be smart to at least consider it.

We have learned a few things this offseason.

1) Top free agents are not currently considering the Knicks.
2) You can always create cap space when you need it or engineer a S&T if a player wants to come.
3) The Knicks aren't going to use cap space to facilitate trades or create space space for other teams for assets.
4) The lottery is a complete crapshoot and its more appealing to players to be good/ fringe playoffs than bottom of the league

It would be a risky move, but if you could get 2 great years of Westbrook and 2 good years, I think it could be a really good move for the Knicks. Takes the scoring burden off the young players, actually have a legit penetrator and distributor, gets the young players to play harder and immediately makes the Knicks a playoff team in the east or close to it. He wouldn't be blocking any young guard they have and I actually think he would really help the young players.

If the cost is really that low, I would go for it. If another star becomes available, you can always make room for them as well. But the top guys are pretty set currently and the upcoming free agent classes are very weak.

I just disagree with the idea that it would be "same old Knicks" if they got an All NBA player without giving up much or anything at all...
RE: I think those teams...  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14495107 Italianju said:
Quote:
are significantly better then MIA would be. If you said compete for the 3 seed i woudlnt argue with it though, ha.


Fine so a 3 seed where they have a player so good he could "Jordan" them to knocking off one of the elite teams. Pat always has it easy.
Westbrook  
Pep22 : 7/9/2019 12:01 pm : link
is such a touch player to pigeon hole.

On one hand, you have to praise him for world class athleticism and the best motor in the league.

His point/rebound/assist stats are incredible.

However, if you prepare for him the way teams to in the playoffs...in other words, get back in transition to prevent his "punt return" like rebound and one may fast break and make him play half court basketball where is far less effective.

Also, its just a matter of time before he grates on teammates.

Then factor in age/salary, and it makes him unattractive for most teams, particularly:

1 teams with a lot of youth
2 teams close to winning bc his style is not conducive to playoff success
RE: Westbrook  
JustaDiscussion : 7/9/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14495113 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:

2) You can always create cap space when you need it or engineer a S&T if a player wants to come.


I disagree with this part. It seems to be quite hyperbolic. We have seen some of the more clever gms manufacture cap space when it appeared there wasn't any, but to me it doesn't mean that any team can just spend willy-nilly.

Regardless of what has happened in the past, it still takes some assortment of assets to "manufacture space". I think this holds true especially with the Knicks. The Knicks appear to have a reputation that they can be "had" in any trade so it seems from the outside that other teams rarely offer them fair deals. This in turn makes me believe that the Knicks need to be more shrewd with their cap then some other teams, because there is less of a chance they will be bailed out in a pinch. Just my opinion.
while that NYK reputation is well earned  
Pep22 : 7/9/2019 12:10 pm : link
by prior regimes, I have liked each and every move this current regime has made
The  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 12:20 pm : link
Knicks apparently offered JaMychal Green "significantly" more money than the 2 for 10 he took with LAC.
Oy  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 12:21 pm : link
The Knicks will be among 12 teams watching Stoudemire and Monta Ellis try to resurrect their careers Monday night in Las Vegas, according to Yahoo. The Lakers, Thunder, Bucks, Pistons and Wizards will also be in attendance. The teams are already stationed in the Sin City for the NBA Summer League.

-Berman
Last point on westbrook  
TyreeHelmet : 7/9/2019 12:22 pm : link
Who’s the next big free agent? If the Knicks really want to go down that road again, the only major guy the next 3 summers ( Westbrook’s contract) would be Giannis in 2021 and to a much lesser extent Bradley Beal. Is Giannis really turning down the Supermax to play for the Knicks? Almost all the other top stars signed extensions or will be restricted.

My overall point is hoarding the cap space is overrated, especially for a team like the Knicks who won’t use it to acquire assets and have shown zero ability to land top superstars. It would be a risk, but there could be reward where Westbrook elevates this franchise across the board.

And look at Miami. They couldn’t have a worse cap situation and they just got a top free agent and will probably land Westbrook soon. It helps having good management, but cap space can be highly overrated. Only Pat Riley would have all these bad “middle” contracts and it will actually help in a trade....
RE: while that NYK reputation is well earned  
JustaDiscussion : 7/9/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14495159 Pep22 said:
Quote:
by prior regimes, I have liked each and every move this current regime has made


I agree for the most part. I was not a fan of them stretching Noah, but it wasn't the end of the world. It's too bad that it takes such a long time to change perception though. I believe that the Knicks have yet to make any critical mistakes since Perry has arrived, but because things haven't broken their way yet, there is still a narrative that they don't do anything right. It makes it hard to be a Knicks fan and listen to certain media members.
RE: RE: while that NYK reputation is well earned  
Pep22 : 7/9/2019 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14495177 JustaDiscussion said:
Quote:
In comment 14495159 Pep22 said:


Quote:


by prior regimes, I have liked each and every move this current regime has made



I agree for the most part. I was not a fan of them stretching Noah, but it wasn't the end of the world. It's too bad that it takes such a long time to change perception though. I believe that the Knicks have yet to make any critical mistakes since Perry has arrived, but because things haven't broken their way yet, there is still a narrative that they don't do anything right. It makes it hard to be a Knicks fan and listen to certain media members.


You're right on the $. Good point about Noah.
RE: Last point on westbrook  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14495173 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Who’s the next big free agent? If the Knicks really want to go down that road again, the only major guy the next 3 summers ( Westbrook’s contract) would be Giannis in 2021 and to a much lesser extent Bradley Beal. Is Giannis really turning down the Supermax to play for the Knicks? Almost all the other top stars signed extensions or will be restricted.

My overall point is hoarding the cap space is overrated, especially for a team like the Knicks who won’t use it to acquire assets and have shown zero ability to land top superstars. It would be a risk, but there could be reward where Westbrook elevates this franchise across the board.

And look at Miami. They couldn’t have a worse cap situation and they just got a top free agent and will probably land Westbrook soon. It helps having good management, but cap space can be highly overrated. Only Pat Riley would have all these bad “middle” contracts and it will actually help in a trade....

Giannis, AD, Oladipo, Paul George (PO), McCollum are all FA's in 2021 (AD in 2020).

While it's true that they haven't shown the ability to land top superstars, they've never had anything to sell but MSG and the NY market. If they had a more experienced roster with NBA contributors (not necessarily other stars) I think they'd be a destination stars would have strong interest in.

I don't really get the Miami point. They're not title contenders with Butler and Westbrook. They have some decent young players as a result of drafting and developing well (plus some patience, we would've given up on Winslow as a fanbase for example) but have no draft capital and will be capped out around two guys that have never won a thing. It's like Melo and Amare if Amare had stayed healthy. What's the end goal there? Some teams need to go for that to sell tickets, the Knicks don't which should be an advantage even if the media and casual fans have their laughs.
Tyree  
JustaDiscussion : 7/9/2019 12:43 pm : link
I agree with many of your Westbrook points, I just can't stomach that contract. If the Thunder gave the Knicks picks to take Westbrook I would consider it. If the Knicks could sign Westbrook to a 1 and 1 at his current salary I would consider it, as I would be interested to see if any of the young guys would play better with more open looks. Since I don't think either of these would happen and the Knicks couldn't trade for him until December anyway it's probably a moot point.

Even if the Knicks could do it, it also closes the door on "pre-agency". One thing the guys at the Ringer talk about all the time is that more players are demanding trades. If the Knicks trade for Westbrook and suddenly a great player demands a trade, who was thought to be happily under contract, and the Knicks weren't in the running because of Westbrook's contract, it could be quite frustrating.
I'm not touching Westbrook  
Enzo : 7/9/2019 1:17 pm : link
even if OKC included assets just to take him. Nothing about him makes me think he's going to age gracefully throughout the 4 years on his contract. You simply can't build a team with a guy taking up that much of the cap who's not playing at an all-nba level. And I don't think he's going to be playing at that level for most of the deal.
Back to Kenny Wooten:  
81_Great_Dane : 7/9/2019 1:20 pm : link
Didn't get enough attention in the game thread. That was a helluva showing. He certainly made a case that the Knicks should invest in his development. If he develops a 3-point shot he is a very useful role player.
RE: I'm not touching Westbrook  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/9/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14495231 Enzo said:
Quote:
even if OKC included assets just to take him. Nothing about him makes me think he's going to age gracefully throughout the 4 years on his contract. You simply can't build a team with a guy taking up that much of the cap who's not playing at an all-nba level. And I don't think he's going to be playing at that level for most of the deal.


One can also argue that his version of playing at an all-nba level doesn't get you anywhere.
RE: Pat  
dep026 : 7/9/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14495060 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the Rat will land Westbrook and Miami will compete for the 1 seed in the East. Book it.


You’re really overrating Westbrook.
RE: RE: Pat  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14495288 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14495060 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the Rat will land Westbrook and Miami will compete for the 1 seed in the East. Book it.



You’re really overrating Westbrook.


A future first ballot HOFer, league MVP joining up with Butler and Whiteside in a a weak East. Totally disagree.
Whiteside...  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 2:22 pm : link
is on the Blazers.
RE: Whiteside...  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14495302 Italianju said:
Quote:
is on the Blazers.


Point remains the same. The East sucks. 2 elite teams, Toronto no longer is Westbrook/Butler and bare bones makes them one of the best teams in the East. You are really confident the Nets sans Durant or Pacers etc are better? Bucks and Sixers sure, Celtics? Who knows. Not the Knicks, Wizards, Hornets, Hawks, Bulls, Cavs... are the Pistons? I mean just do the math. The Heat by virtue of the East would be one of the better teams.
i was just pointing it out....  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 2:35 pm : link
i said earlier that had you said they will compete for the 3 seed i wouldnt argue. I mean the rest of the roster is pretty bad. Next best players after Russ/Butler would be what Dragic (becomes less useful with Russ)? Waiters? Its just not a great roster, but as you said the rest of the east isnt any good.
OKC  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 2:38 pm : link
apparently is trying to move Adams with Westbrook. That's a lot of salary and a lot of talent. Tough to see obvious fits. I guess the Pistons like everyone keeps suggesting.
I think the Pistons will aggressively  
Metnut : 7/9/2019 2:39 pm : link
go after Westbrook also.

They are already committed long-term to Griffin, so tanking isn't an option. They're desperate to be relevant, so adding Westbrook and being a 3-6 seed in the East would be a big improvement in their circumstances and put them "back on the map."

Miami might be Westbrook's preferred destination, but I think the Pistons are more desperate and will offer a bigger package.
I think Russ on DET...  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 2:43 pm : link
would be fun. No idea how all the pieces fit but Russ, Blake and Drummond would be interesting
It would make the heat a contender, but what does that mean?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/9/2019 3:02 pm : link
Whoever wins the east just gets served up whatever western team is the favorite.

Westbrook's playstyle is not conducive to winning a 7 game series. And maybe Jimmy Butler thinks he can do for a team what Kawhi did for Toronto, but I don't think he's that kind of player.
Westbrook is on the wrong side of 30 with a ton of wear  
larryflower37 : 7/9/2019 3:19 pm : link
I don't know whos contracts ROI is worse
Westbrook or CP3?
Also, the thought that there are no quality FAs in the next 3 years is a stupid argument.
Players request trades constantly and having a bunch of expiring deals,young players and draft picks puts the Knicks in the running for anyone that wants out.
according to Berman  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 3:28 pm : link
Westbrook isn't on the Knicks' radar anyways
Adding  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 3:32 pm : link
Amar'e would be ridiculous. The team doesn't need 8 mentors lol
RE: Adding  
Del Shofner : 7/9/2019 3:40 pm : link
In comment 14495352 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Amar'e would be ridiculous. The team doesn't need 8 mentors lol


No one else is qualified to introduce the rookies to the practice of bathing in red wine.
This is weird...  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 4:01 pm : link
Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
Following Following @wojespn
More
ESPN Sources: The New York Knicks and free agent Reggie Bullock are re-working an original two-year, $21M deal, with both sides motivated to find an agreement with new terms. Agent David Bauman and the Knicks are re-evaluating Bullock’s fitness to play a full season in 2019-20.
he isnt coming off any injury right?  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 4:03 pm : link
that is def odd.
RE: he isnt coming off any injury right?  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14495386 Italianju said:
Quote:
that is def odd.

nope, must've found something during the physical I guess
RE: he isnt coming off any injury right?  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14495386 Italianju said:
Quote:
that is def odd.


Had neck soreness in April.
i mean it was already...  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 4:13 pm : link
a team option for the second year. I guess you can look to pay him less. I never understood the point of him and Ellington, wouldnt be against them just moving on.
I mean do we really need Bullock?  
Anakim : 7/9/2019 4:21 pm : link
We have Ellington who is a very similar player
you can never have enough wings who can defend  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2019 4:31 pm : link
and shoot from the outside. Floor spacing will be critical to the young guys' development.
Bullock is exactly the kind of person easy to move at the deadline .  
Heisenberg : 7/9/2019 4:34 pm : link
so, definitely would bring him in.
RE: This is weird...  
adamg : 7/9/2019 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14495384 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
Following Following @wojespn
More
ESPN Sources: The New York Knicks and free agent Reggie Bullock are re-working an original two-year, $21M deal, with both sides motivated to find an agreement with new terms. Agent David Bauman and the Knicks are re-evaluating Bullock’s fitness to play a full season in 2019-20.


Everyone (fans) on twitter wants them to pivot and go after Oubre instead.
Total  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 4:35 pm : link
guess but maybe related to the neck? Obviously they are trying to guarantee less money.
I’m a big oubre  
Italianju : 7/9/2019 4:39 pm : link
Can but he is restricted right
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 4:45 pm : link

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Reporting with
@MarcJSpearsESPN
: Free agent Marcus Morris -- who committed to a two-year, $20M Spurs deal w/ player option -- is re-considering agreement. Morris is now considering a free agent deal with Knicks, who'll have additional cap space with reworking of Bullock deal.
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2019 4:46 pm : link
Morris is a solid player but how many vets do @knicks need? It goes from "needing vets for the young guys" to overkill and stealing minutes from the young guys #Knicks
I hate Kelly Oubre, although that's mostly due to his fake tough guy  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/9/2019 4:49 pm : link
horseshit rather than his on the court skills. However, what would he bring to the Knicks? He didn't seem to add much to a roster of young players in Phoenix.
RE: RE: RE: Pat  
dep026 : 7/9/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14495291 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14495288 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14495060 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the Rat will land Westbrook and Miami will compete for the 1 seed in the East. Book it.



You’re really overrating Westbrook.



A future first ballot HOFer, league MVP joining up with Butler and Whiteside in a a weak East. Totally disagree.


He can’t shoot. Demands the ball all the time, doesn’t defend anymore, and no one likes playing with him. And he is progressively gettting worse.

Two of the biggest me first players together is nothing but a disaster.
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