Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Reporting with
@MarcJSpearsESPN
: Free agent Marcus Morris -- who committed to a two-year, $20M Spurs deal w/ player option -- is re-considering agreement. Morris is now considering a free agent deal with Knicks, who'll have additional cap space with reworking of Bullock deal.
Sounds like both... and enough vets already jeez.
@ChrisBHaynes
Yahoo Sources: New York Knicks have a one-year, roughly $15 million offer on the table for Marcus Morris who is considering reneging on his two-year, $20 million agreement with San Antonio.
He's a really solid all around player.
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In a brief conversation with ESPN, Bauman was complimentary of how the Knicks handled this emerging situation with Bullock. He cited how accommodating ownership, front office and medical staff had been in dealing with new issues facing deal: First-class throughout, Bauman said.
True. I'd also add when they're out of it.
They have enough of those as it is.
Ellington, Gibson, Portis, Bullock assuming he's deal goes through, Payton.
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and pro's are good to have as examples and role models when you are building with youth.
They have enough of those as it is.
Ellington, Gibson, Portis, Bullock assuming he's deal goes through, Payton.
Morris is better than any of those guys right now. That's why I doubt he'd be amenable to sitting on the bench if/when the Knicks need to play kids.
I have been thinking about this and I agree. The kids will need to be split up between the first and second teams and mixed in with the vets. I have no strong view about getting Morris but he does seem a little redundant unless one of the other guys is going to play more C than PF - but if he's better than them, he's not redundant I guess.
Seems like it's simply a $ grab. 15 million for 1 year vs. 2 for 20 including the player option. Probably betting on himself.
It's tough to build a culture with no one who reflects it - so my one gripe with this team is how do you build a D mindset w/ no defenders or min D bball IQ?
I'd be glad to grab him. At least more than anyone not named Randle
PG - Payton
SG - Barrett
SF - Knox
PF - Randle
C - Mitch
The one thing I will say is they have Mitch locked up for 3 more years, they may take their time with him and only play him 24-28 mins a game. Defensively that is a really bad line up, maybe Knox comes off the bench.
Sounds like a pair of shit bags.
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we should hang a banner for it.
Seems like it's simply a $ grab. 15 million for 1 year vs. 2 for 20 including the player option. Probably betting on himself.
If you factor in the income tax differences though it's only a ~$1.5M or so difference
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In comment 14495517 bceagle05 said:
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we should hang a banner for it.
Seems like it's simply a $ grab. 15 million for 1 year vs. 2 for 20 including the player option. Probably betting on himself.
If you factor in the income tax differences though it's only a ~$1.5M or so difference
A million here, a million there. Pretty soon youre talking real money.
Anyway, its more like $2.5M.
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I do not want all of the kids starting. Smith, Barrett, Knox, Randle and Mitch is a horrific shooting and defensive lineup, even if they are the highest upside young guys. A mix of vets and young guys in the starting lineup and the bench would be a good thing.
I have been thinking about this and I agree. The kids will need to be split up between the first and second teams and mixed in with the vets. I have no strong view about getting Morris but he does seem a little redundant unless one of the other guys is going to play more C than PF - but if he's better than them, he's not redundant I guess.
Good points here. On one hand, my reaction is cool, Knicks are back to trying to play .500 and compete for the 8 seed.
But another full tank season throwing the kids to the wolves may actually stunt their growth.
Don't feel too strongly either way about any of the guys we've signed, but at least the front office had a plan B if they whiffed on the max guys - fill out roster with vet competitors on short tradeable deals, don't blow up cap space with another Amare type signing.
What happened to develop the young players? And if they are signing them to trade them- what do they reasonably expect to get back?
I dont understand the point of this signing or the overall strategy. Atleast this guy can defend and is actually tough.
Randle, Taj, Bullock, Payton and maybe Morris would be fine along with the young guys. Keep a spot or two open for the Summer League crew to earn.
Id take Morris, i mean guys will get hurt. And maybe he just takes Gibson's minutes, id be ok with that.
Will be interesting to see how fizdale does this year. I mean mock the knicks all you want but there is a lot more talent on this team. It shouldnt win 17 games.
It's the ESPN streaming service. Used to be called watch ESPN
it's on msg and nbatv
True, but that was a 1-4 from the moment he started attacking. The play there was moving the ball
Not so impressed w/ him today so far either. He's forced less bad plays & passed a little more from the first 2 games so that's something. But again it's SL - even if on fire the experience & process is what matters most atm
We'll enjoy having a decent pass-first PG tho Payton isn't an allstar. Years of Gs inability to get the ball to the right spots, if not just to the wing or post. This is SL but it's awful for NYK. Kadeem is serviceable for THIS level...maybe. Kinda speaks to why we'd have Vonleh bring it up at times last season
You should call every GM in the league and ask them which they'd rather have.
Hes a 7 footer in a league where players get hurt all the time. Roster depth is a thing.
Are Mills and Perry even around for this mess?
Knox just seems too comfortable going 4 for 15. He has no balance and his drives to the hoop are simply awkward. I guess we'll hope he can develop into a dead-eye catch and shoot guy.
I like that Barrett is more assertive at least.
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Tyler Herro > RJ Barrett. The Heat got the next Devin Booker and RJ is the next Shabazz Muhammad.
You should call every GM in the league and ask them which they'd rather have.
Why so serious, lol? Guess the overreactions from others is weighing on you
D was supposed to be a weakness iirc, but he looks better than that, if not best of this group so far (not saying too much but still)
Iggy quieter but still solid
Mitch still Mitch, fun to watch. Lots of blocks
That being said, I won't dwell on summer league either. Let's see what happens when training camp and exhibition games start.
Doesn't mean anything, it's just funny in context
All the critics disappeared.
Typical BBI..
To me, he is a Brandon Ingram or Chandler Parsons (before he signed the big contract) type; a skilled and long wing who should be a solid 15 ppg scorer.
Entirely different player than games 1 and 2.
Entirely different player than games 1 and 2.
Barrett did look good last night. The team as a whole, not so much.
He almost got a triple double.
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He looked better.
He almost got a triple double.
Yeah but he didnt go to Virginia...
Keep plugging away, little trooper, I'm sure someday you'll say something relevant.
Entirely different player than games 1 and 2.
The player we should see consistently if he works hard enough for it. Which by all accounts, he should.
Chasson Randle 2.0
Hahaha this is such a strange fight for you to pick.
Allen is garbage, no reason he should make the team. A guy his age with his experience should look at least solid in SL and he looks awful.
Allen is garbage, no reason he should make the team. A guy his age with his experience should look at least solid in SL and he looks awful.
He has no shot. I thought Wooten did poorly too. The last spot will be either Marcus Morris or Lance Thomas
His athleticism was overhyped in HS because of his dominance. Here is Givony April 2017
"-Excellent upper body but thin lower body. Legs are a bit bowed out. -Didn't look as explosive as he has in the past. Was slightly hampered by a lower extremity injury - had come straight from Dick's Nationals where he reportedly hurt his knee. Moves in a bit of a herky jerky fashion. Has yet to reach his athletic potential? -Struggled a bit to get by long athletes thanks to his so-so burst (maybe due to injury) and very raw handle - loose, away from his body. Makes an effort to change speeds but doesn't do so with much force. Left hand dominant at this stage. -Not as explosive around the rim in traffic as he is in space. Relies more on his length and ability to finish from different angles than pure explosiveness. Has shown he has a higher degree of explosiveness in the past - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/R.J.-Barrett-91144/ DraftExpress
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I have real questions about why RJ Garrett was so highly touted when he seems to be apparently average athletically. Does anyone know how he tested at the combine?
His athleticism was overhyped in HS because of his dominance. Here is Givony April 2017
"-Excellent upper body but thin lower body. Legs are a bit bowed out. -Didn't look as explosive as he has in the past. Was slightly hampered by a lower extremity injury - had come straight from Dick's Nationals where he reportedly hurt his knee. Moves in a bit of a herky jerky fashion. Has yet to reach his athletic potential? -Struggled a bit to get by long athletes thanks to his so-so burst (maybe due to injury) and very raw handle - loose, away from his body. Makes an effort to change speeds but doesn't do so with much force. Left hand dominant at this stage. -Not as explosive around the rim in traffic as he is in space. Relies more on his length and ability to finish from different angles than pure explosiveness. Has shown he has a higher degree of explosiveness in the past - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/R.J.-Barrett-91144/ DraftExpress
I think this is a really good assessment. Was impressed with how strong he was but I definitely wouldn't call him explosive.
Ignas MICHIGAN MAN Brazdeikis with 30 points and 8 rebounds. As expected.
So many players were highly touted from high school and didn't live up to the hype. Lance Stephenson, Austin Rivers, Shabazz Muhammad, Perry Jone, and the list goes on
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I have real questions about why RJ Garrett was so highly touted when he seems to be apparently average athletically. Does anyone know how he tested at the combine?
So many players were highly touted from high school and didn't live up to the hype. Lance Stephenson, Austin Rivers, Shabazz Muhammad, Perry Jone, and the list goes on
OJ Mayo, Jahlil Okafor, Harry Giles, Skal Labissiere, Senor Wiggins...
But I will say that with possibly the exception of Wiggins, Barrett was more highly-touted than all of them.
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I have real questions about why RJ Garrett was so highly touted when he seems to be apparently average athletically. Does anyone know how he tested at the combine?
So many players were highly touted from high school and didn't live up to the hype. Lance Stephenson, Austin Rivers, Shabazz Muhammad, Perry Jone, and the list goes on
The difference is none of those players were great college players. RJ was an all american.
1: Eddy Curry
2: Kelvin Torbert
3: Dejuan Wagner
4: Tyson Chandler
5: Ousmane Cisse
6: Kwame Brown
7: Julius Hodge
8: DeSagana Diop
9: Rick Rickert
10: David Lee
Two good NBA players in the top ten, that's it.
Kurt Helin
@basketballtalk
15s
Kawhi Leonard and Paul George both will be free agents in two years, and both wanted it that way because they hit 10 years of service and can get a larger raise up to 35% of the salary cap (up from 30%). Not about leaving Clippers (necessarily) it's about the $$$
,
Link - ( New Window )
Can he play power forward? But seriously I agree with this. But dont see why he would sign with the Knicks.
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But when used particularly in past seasons, he was a great mentor, you'd expect better than Morris fwiw, esp as a PG
I listed out all the 'old' LAC players I used to watch in another thread and stupidly missed him. He was truly fantastic b4 all the awful knee injuries. Actually, not sure I mentioned Eric Gordon on that list either!
Mitchell Robinson has 5 fouls in just over 9 minutes.
This is not good. Seriously, you need to get your game under control after spending a year in the league. Last year was a different story
These are the types of things that are going to hinder Robinson until it improves consistently. It's directly related to his minutes per game and why they can't just write him in for 30 minutes a game. We can explain it away as summer league, but this is how he played at times last year too.
Mitch w/ a stuff
RJ w/ a righty drive and a call!
RJ attacking again, another call
You are correct. #1 in scoring, #7 in assists and #11 in rebounds.
Took him a second to realize he had the spin but really nice
And almost got a dunk for Mitch right there if he wasn't fouled
Looks very engaged now (travel or not! It's the NBA baby)
Looks very engaged now (travel or not! It's the NBA baby)
should of had 2 more free throws on that fastbreak..
he is a hell of a rebounder
Best game so far
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But I see we're winning big. How is RJ looking?
Best game so far
Well, that's not hard :P
Very aggressive all game
Mitch did what he does, 5-5, 7R, 4B
Allen w/ about the best game he can have, 4-4, 5A, 2R, 1A. Still a decent defender at least SL level. (Again, 'can't wait' for Payton, believe it or not)
Ignas boards, to KK at half, to Cavanaugh at the rim / layup oop
then a bad TO in the paint...
knox 25 and 7, he looks a lot.more confident driving to the hoop and his jumper looks smooth..
-Rich Paul was pushing Davis to the Knicks "as hard" as the Lakers
-Wanted the Knicks to trade back and take Garland
-Offer to Morris is 1 for 14.8
-Rich Paul was pushing Davis to the Knicks "as hard" as the Lakers
Absolutely no one believes this
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-Rich Paul was pushing Davis to the Knicks "as hard" as the Lakers
Absolutely no one believes this
there were reports if this before the trade but yeah i dont believe it, i believe davis wanted a big market but this was a clear power move by klutch to get lebron a running mate
Chauncey Billups shares why he thinks Melo isn't in the NBA anymore.
Do they represent their countries in the World Cup in August? Or do they choose to rest, relax and work out with Knicks coaches?
In Brazdeikis case, the Michigan second-round pick has been contemplating suiting up for his native Lithuania, according to an industry source. Like Barrett, Brazdeikis grew up in Canada.
Barrett was asked where he stands on playing for his country. As much as he has New York blood, he is Canadian first and was part of the countrys 18- and 17-and-under national teams.
I havent thought about it much, Barrett said. Im trying to get through the summer league first [before making a decision].
SEE ALSO
Knicks Ignas Brazdeikis always has silenced the doubters
Team Canada, according to the source, hopes he plays. That Rowan Barrett, RJs father, had been a key player for Team Canada in years past could weigh in the favor of him playing in the event held in China beginning in late August. Rowan Barrett was teammates with Steve Nash on Team Canada.
They would have had Davis and probably just enough room for 2 max spots. Would that have made Kyrie and KD consider the Knicks? Would Leonard have been open to playing with Davis? He was searching for a 2nd star to play with - spoke to Durant and Butler before George.
I know he was a lock for the Lakers but its an interesting scenario to think of. It would have taken massive balls but imagine if they pulled in Davis and Kawhi this offseason....
They would have had Davis and probably just enough room for 2 max spots. Would that have made Kyrie and KD consider the Knicks? Would Leonard have been open to playing with Davis? He was searching for a 2nd star to play with - spoke to Durant and Butler before George.
I know he was a lock for the Lakers but its an interesting scenario to think of. It would have taken massive balls but imagine if they pulled in Davis and Kawhi this offseason....
if he was not represented by klutch i dont think he is as adamant about grtting to the lakers and i dknt think the lakers cam take that risk by trading for him...
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22m22 minutes ago
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Leaving Las Vegas one last note - sounds like a few folks in and out of the knicks organization think that the Marcus Morris deal will happen.
I still expect smith barrett knox randle robinson
I still expect smith barrett knox randle robinson
I expect that too unless they sign Morris, in which case Knox is replaced by Morris as a starter (is my guess). It wouldn't hurt to mix up the young guys with the vets a little more anyway. The second team could be:
payton ellington knox portis gibson
that leaves a third team including frank, trier, dotson, iggy, ellenson, bullock (I guess there's a question how much he can play)
seems to be a surplus at the 2 and 3 and a shortage at the 5 - Mitch is the only true C on the roster.
I don't know that he'd be a starter with the Spurs either. They liked using DeRozan at the 3 last year and Aldridge at the 4 with Forbes and Poltl in there too.
Oak would approve.
One would think the minute allocation would look something like this:
PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 22, Portis 12, Gibson 14
Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes.
he has some seriously thin skin
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in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..
he has some seriously thin skin
i dont think he realizes how big the split is between nets and knicks. I think he thinks he will get the same love whether with nets or knicks
I'm also curious whether Fiz will actually stick with a starting line-up this season. Last season it seemed to change every few weeks. I'm going to wait for pre-season to make any starting line up predictions or assume anyone will be relegated to the bench. Just like last year, it seems like the Knicks have 15 players all who have similar skill levels, or at least that potential, so playing time will be difficult to allocate.
Of course you're right to do so. But it's fun to guess, so here's my current thinking assuming Morris is signed:
1st team:
Mitch-Randle-Morris-RJ-Payton
2nd team:
Portis-Iggy-Knox-Ellingon-DSJ
Occasional minutes:
Gibson-Trier-Dotson-Bullock-[big man not on roster yet]
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If the Knicks are going down this road with vets, they might as well try to win games. I have no clue who to start at guard - Smith and Barrett have the highest upside, but you could make a case for guys like Payton, Dotson and Trier if it's a true meritocracy.
One would think the minute allocation would look something like this:
PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 22, Portis 12, Gibson 14
Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes.
The 4 young guys need more minutes than that. And thats going to be a cramped floor for that starting 5.
I dont understand this Morris signing at all or this entire offseason but thats a different story. Why not just keep the 15million or cap space and move on from Bullock too? There are no NBA teams with substantial cap space. When teams want to make a trade and need a 3rd team with space to facilitate - that could put the Knicks in a good position. But who needs more picks when you can sign your 5th power forward instead.
"Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes."
Also, as much as we all like him, with his foul rate its unlikely he gets near 30 min.
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with 0 uptick in minutes? Yuck
"Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes."
Also, as much as we all like him, with his foul rate its unlikely he gets near 30 min.
He played 20.6 minutes per game last season including 17.8 first half, so you're basically suggesting he's going to play less than he did last year once joining the rotation? Foul trouble or not that would be terrible.
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In comment 14496668 bceagle05 said:
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If the Knicks are going down this road with vets, they might as well try to win games. I have no clue who to start at guard - Smith and Barrett have the highest upside, but you could make a case for guys like Payton, Dotson and Trier if it's a true meritocracy.
One would think the minute allocation would look something like this:
PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 22, Portis 12, Gibson 14
Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes.
The 4 young guys need more minutes than that. And thats going to be a cramped floor for that starting 5.
I dont understand this Morris signing at all or this entire offseason but thats a different story. Why not just keep the 15million or cap space and move on from Bullock too? There are no NBA teams with substantial cap space. When teams want to make a trade and need a 3rd team with space to facilitate - that could put the Knicks in a good position. But who needs more picks when you can sign your 5th power forward instead.
This is not < 2010. They're not all PFs, they're all BIGs. There is 96 minutes a night to allocate among the 5 guys. Randle will get 30 of that. Gibson might get 10. There's 56 left and that isn't factoring the idea that Morris will get minutes at the 3 also. With Morris, your adding toughness, shooting and a trade asset.
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In comment 14496755 DanMetroMan said:
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with 0 uptick in minutes? Yuck
"Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes."
Also, as much as we all like him, with his foul rate its unlikely he gets near 30 min.
He played 20.6 minutes per game last season including 17.8 first half, so you're basically suggesting he's going to play less than he did last year once joining the rotation? Foul trouble or not that would be terrible.
If the 3 minutes is going to keep you up tonight, there you go:
PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 26, Portis 8, Gibson 14
So IMO DSJ is an unlikely starter, tho if his shot has improved, that might make him the scoring choice over EP. Even so EP starts as the better playmaker. Then the only other definite starter is Randle at 4
Mitch should get the most minutes at 5, but with 2 guys better on O it won't be that simple. As mentioned if he doesn't get fouls in control it takes care of itself minutes-wise
Then RJ you think starts at 2, but the others are better shooters. So does Dot get the nod early being the best 2-way of those? Or Trier if they need more scoring? If either has improved this offseason, both have a shot outside of #3 pick taking priority
The 3 becomes much clearer without Morris. But iirc he's the best defender and solid all around. Knox then Iggy & Dot certainly need some minutes. Tho I bet Dot in particular plays some 2
Which is my last point, especially w/ the breakdown of set positions, there's gonna be a lot more overlap & grey area for positions. It's conceivable RJ / Iggy / KK do what Vonleh was doing from the 4-5 & bring the ball up. With EP the lone passing PG, this might be a more common in game move, even aside from the mandate to break. As people have said, there's a lot on Fizzy this time, interesting to see how he does
Payton did have a higher assist percentage than DSJ last year but not by a lot -- 32 percent to 28 percent.
I find this stat to be pretty illuminating. Knox was abysmal. Ranked 441 out of 510 players who saw any NBA playing time. My biggest concern about his game.
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While the starting group can do more with DSJ in theory even if he is a lesser floor general atm (I'd think atm) - Randle can do a lot with the ball, Portis too. Then KK / RJ aren't PG dependent either...tho you'd think we need less scoring if that was the 4, while PG / handle isn't a requirement
Again it's gonna be who works best - best PnR pairs, best trio on the strong side, best motor & team D if not just best choice to defend specific players. Gonna need a shooter or 2 which they seem to have more now, be it strong or weakside. Likely a lot of changes & experimentation early
How does that make sense? He didn't like the perception that he was being traded straight up for Russell so instead he wanted the perception to be that he's not even good enough to be traded straight up for Russell, the GSW had to kick in a 1st rounder?
Obviously GSW wasn't kicking in a 1st because Russell is in any way more valuable than Durant (except for next season), but how does KD's (self-)perceived value increase by GSW including a 1st?
knicks do not need a scorer off the bench, with trier off the bench..
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in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..
How does that make sense? He didn't like the perception that he was being traded straight up for Russell so instead he wanted the perception to be that he's not even good enough to be traded straight up for Russell, the GSW had to kick in a 1st rounder?
Obviously GSW wasn't kicking in a 1st because Russell is in any way more valuable than Durant (except for next season), but how does KD's (self-)perceived value increase by GSW including a 1st?
Windhorst wasn't clear on this point. My guess is it was about perception. It looked like Russell was being traded for the pick and not Durant straight up.
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fear is Fitz putting DSJ on the bench as a "scorer". He's either a PG or he's not an NBA player.
knicks do not need a scorer off the bench, with trier off the bench..
Trier was a perfect example of extremely odd messaging from Fitz... I like Trier but why was he given a different set of rules within the system?
That signing is going to come back and haunt Brooklyn.
Kept youth and picks- and added prince.
They lost vets.
I struggle to understand what they are going to miss out on?
And if hes healthy and it hits- fantastic.
That signing is going to come back and haunt Brooklyn.
he will probably end his career in brooklyn
Kept youth and picks- and added prince.
They lost vets.
I struggle to understand what they are going to miss out on?
And if hes healthy and it hits- fantastic.
Exactly. I never understood the argument that it was a risky signing. The reward far outweighs any risk. You are getting one of the one of the best players to ever play the game from ages 32-34 at a minimum. And they got a first round pick in return.
Its actually sad and ironic the Nets were the ones getting a 1st and 2 max players while the Knicks struck out in both...
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They gave up nothing- swapped Irving and dlo-
Kept youth and picks- and added prince.
They lost vets.
I struggle to understand what they are going to miss out on?
And if hes healthy and it hits- fantastic.
Exactly. I never understood the argument that it was a risky signing. The reward far outweighs any risk. You are getting one of the one of the best players to ever play the game from ages 32-34 at a minimum. And they got a first round pick in return.
Its actually sad and ironic the Nets were the ones getting a 1st and 2 max players while the Knicks struck out in both...
You sound like SAS. Maybe consider becoming a Nets fan?