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NFT: Marcus Morris to the Knicks?

Anakim : 7/9/2019 4:42 pm
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

Reporting with
@MarcJSpearsESPN
: Free agent Marcus Morris -- who committed to a two-year, $20M Spurs deal w/ player option -- is re-considering agreement. Morris is now considering a free agent deal with Knicks, who'll have additional cap space with reworking of Bullock deal.
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Davis  
TyreeHelmet : 7/11/2019 8:35 am : link
I donít believe that line from Berman for one second. But looking back, do you think free agency is different for the Knicks if they had Davis on the roster?

They would have had Davis and probably just enough room for 2 max spots. Would that have made Kyrie and KD consider the Knicks? Would Leonard have been open to playing with Davis? He was searching for a 2nd star to play with - spoke to Durant and Butler before George.

I know he was a lock for the Lakers but itís an interesting scenario to think of. It would have taken massive balls but imagine if they pulled in Davis and Kawhi this offseason....
RE: Davis  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 9:05 am : link
In comment 14496486 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I donít believe that line from Berman for one second. But looking back, do you think free agency is different for the Knicks if they had Davis on the roster?

They would have had Davis and probably just enough room for 2 max spots. Would that have made Kyrie and KD consider the Knicks? Would Leonard have been open to playing with Davis? He was searching for a 2nd star to play with - spoke to Durant and Butler before George.

I know he was a lock for the Lakers but itís an interesting scenario to think of. It would have taken massive balls but imagine if they pulled in Davis and Kawhi this offseason....


if he was not represented by klutch i dont think he is as adamant about grtting to the lakers and i dknt think the lakers cam take that risk by trading for him...

.  
Strahan91 : 7/11/2019 10:59 am : link
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Leaving Las Vegas one last note - sounds like a few folks in and out of the knicks organization think that the Marcus Morris deal will happen.
I find it hard to believe Morris will sign here to sit behind  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 11:39 am : link
some 19/20-year-olds, regardless of money. He's a legit NBA starter in his prime, and he wants to up his value for next year's weaker FA class.
And I'm not doubting the rumors...  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 11:42 am : link
just saying that I'd expect him to be a starter on the Knicks, along with Randle and Mitch in the front court.
Agree- I think that if Morris is acquired,  
Del Shofner : 7/11/2019 11:56 am : link
he starts and Knox comes off the bench. Knox wonít like that but itís not bad in my view.
will be intresting how fiz does this  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 12:00 pm : link
you got vets that want to play and deserve tonplay, you got young kids that are your future..

I still expect smith barrett knox randle robinson
Adding Morris would at least allow me to ENTERTAIN  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 12:12 pm : link
the possibility of making the playoffs, for whatever that's worth with a bunch of vets on one-year deals. I feel like they're just trying to win more games than the Nets this season until the young guys develop more.
RE: will be intresting how fiz does this  
Del Shofner : 7/11/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14496634 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
you got vets that want to play and deserve tonplay, you got young kids that are your future..

I still expect smith barrett knox randle robinson


I expect that too unless they sign Morris, in which case Knox is replaced by Morris as a starter (is my guess). It wouldn't hurt to mix up the young guys with the vets a little more anyway. The second team could be:

payton ellington knox portis gibson

that leaves a third team including frank, trier, dotson, iggy, ellenson, bullock (I guess there's a question how much he can play)

seems to be a surplus at the 2 and 3 and a shortage at the 5 - Mitch is the only true C on the roster.
RE: I find it hard to believe Morris will sign here to sit behind  
Strahan91 : 7/11/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14496614 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
some 19/20-year-olds, regardless of money. He's a legit NBA starter in his prime, and he wants to up his value for next year's weaker FA class.

I don't know that he'd be a starter with the Spurs either. They liked using DeRozan at the 3 last year and Aldridge at the 4 with Forbes and Poltl in there too.
That's true, but DeRozan and Alridge are established players.  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 12:24 pm : link
If the Knicks are going down this road with vets, they might as well try to win games. I have no clue who to start at guard - Smith and Barrett have the highest upside, but you could make a case for guys like Payton, Dotson and Trier if it's a true meritocracy.
Knicks will win all the fights with  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 12:32 pm : link
Morris, Randle, Portis and Taj - nice group of enforcers.
RE: Knicks will win all the fights with  
Heisenberg : 7/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14496683 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Morris, Randle, Portis and Taj - nice group of enforcers.


Oak would approve.
supposedly kevun durant made the warriors give up a 1st  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..
RE: That's true, but DeRozan and Alridge are established players.  
Pep22 : 7/11/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14496668 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
If the Knicks are going down this road with vets, they might as well try to win games. I have no clue who to start at guard - Smith and Barrett have the highest upside, but you could make a case for guys like Payton, Dotson and Trier if it's a true meritocracy.


One would think the minute allocation would look something like this:

PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 22, Portis 12, Gibson 14

Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes.
RE: supposedly kevun durant made the warriors give up a 1st  
Strahan91 : 7/11/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14496686 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..

he has some seriously thin skin
RE: RE: supposedly kevun durant made the warriors give up a 1st  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14496699 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14496686 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..


he has some seriously thin skin


i dont think he realizes how big the split is between nets and knicks. I think he thinks he will get the same love whether with nets or knicks
Elfrid Payton can and has been a starter.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2019 1:19 pm : link
I dont think it's so clear cut that hes a backup. As a PG, offense-initiator, and game manager, hes arguably better than Smith. I expect payton to push hard for that job.
I'd be surprised if the starters are all of the young guys.  
JustaDiscussion : 7/11/2019 2:00 pm : link
It would seem to fly in the face of the idea that the players have to earn their minutes, which I thought was what the organization was promoting this year. Probability would suggest that some of the vets would win starter spots.

I'm also curious whether Fiz will actually stick with a starting line-up this season. Last season it seemed to change every few weeks. I'm going to wait for pre-season to make any starting line up predictions or assume anyone will be relegated to the bench. Just like last year, it seems like the Knicks have 15 players all who have similar skill levels, or at least that potential, so playing time will be difficult to allocate.
.  
Del Shofner : 7/11/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14496745 JustaDiscussion said:
Quote:
I'm going to wait for pre-season to make any starting line up predictions or assume anyone will be relegated to the bench.


Of course you're right to do so. But it's fun to guess, so here's my current thinking assuming Morris is signed:

1st team:

Mitch-Randle-Morris-RJ-Payton

2nd team:

Portis-Iggy-Knox-Ellingon-DSJ

Occasional minutes:

Gibson-Trier-Dotson-Bullock-[big man not on roster yet]
RE: RE: That's true, but DeRozan and Alridge are established players.  
TyreeHelmet : 7/11/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14496689 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14496668 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


If the Knicks are going down this road with vets, they might as well try to win games. I have no clue who to start at guard - Smith and Barrett have the highest upside, but you could make a case for guys like Payton, Dotson and Trier if it's a true meritocracy.



One would think the minute allocation would look something like this:

PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 22, Portis 12, Gibson 14

Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes.


The 4 young guys need more minutes than that. And thatís going to be a cramped floor for that starting 5.

I donít understand this Morris signing at all or this entire offseason but thatís a different story. Why not just keep the 15million or cap space and move on from Bullock too? There are no NBA teams with substantial cap space. When teams want to make a trade and need a 3rd team with space to facilitate - that could put the Knicks in a good position. But who needs more picks when you can sign your 5th power forward instead.
Robinson  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2019 2:23 pm : link
with 0 uptick in minutes? Yuck
RE: Robinson  
Pep22 : 7/11/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14496755 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
with 0 uptick in minutes? Yuck


"Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes."

Also, as much as we all like him, with his foul rate its unlikely he gets near 30 min.
RE: RE: Robinson  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14496757 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14496755 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


with 0 uptick in minutes? Yuck



"Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes."

Also, as much as we all like him, with his foul rate its unlikely he gets near 30 min.


He played 20.6 minutes per game last season including 17.8 first half, so you're basically suggesting he's going to play less than he did last year once joining the rotation? Foul trouble or not that would be terrible.
Averaged 25.3  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2019 2:37 pm : link
minutes per game second half
RE: RE: RE: That's true, but DeRozan and Alridge are established players.  
Pep22 : 7/11/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14496754 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14496689 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 14496668 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


If the Knicks are going down this road with vets, they might as well try to win games. I have no clue who to start at guard - Smith and Barrett have the highest upside, but you could make a case for guys like Payton, Dotson and Trier if it's a true meritocracy.



One would think the minute allocation would look something like this:

PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 22, Portis 12, Gibson 14

Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes.



The 4 young guys need more minutes than that. And thatís going to be a cramped floor for that starting 5.

I donít understand this Morris signing at all or this entire offseason but thatís a different story. Why not just keep the 15million or cap space and move on from Bullock too? There are no NBA teams with substantial cap space. When teams want to make a trade and need a 3rd team with space to facilitate - that could put the Knicks in a good position. But who needs more picks when you can sign your 5th power forward instead.


This is not < 2010. They're not all PFs, they're all BIGs. There is 96 minutes a night to allocate among the 5 guys. Randle will get 30 of that. Gibson might get 10. There's 56 left and that isn't factoring the idea that Morris will get minutes at the 3 also. With Morris, your adding toughness, shooting and a trade asset.
RE: RE: RE: Robinson  
Pep22 : 7/11/2019 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14496759 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14496757 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 14496755 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


with 0 uptick in minutes? Yuck



"Obviously, guys can play their way in and out of minutes."

Also, as much as we all like him, with his foul rate its unlikely he gets near 30 min.



He played 20.6 minutes per game last season including 17.8 first half, so you're basically suggesting he's going to play less than he did last year once joining the rotation? Foul trouble or not that would be terrible.


If the 3 minutes is going to keep you up tonight, there you go:

PG: DSJ 28, Payton 20
SG: RJB 26, Trier 22
SF: Morris 18, Knox 24, Iggy or Dot to fight for scraps
PF: Randle 30, Portis 10, Morris 8
C: Robinson 26, Portis 8, Gibson 14
Tho it's always a talking point, atm the roster is amorphous  
ChaChing : 7/11/2019 3:11 pm : link
given all the new and or young bodies. This is going to be more about fit on the floor and who works best together. And at first, it very likely might be about 2-3 guys more than 5 because we're that early in the season & with this roster

So IMO DSJ is an unlikely starter, tho if his shot has improved, that might make him the scoring choice over EP. Even so EP starts as the better playmaker. Then the only other definite starter is Randle at 4

Mitch should get the most minutes at 5, but with 2 guys better on O it won't be that simple. As mentioned if he doesn't get fouls in control it takes care of itself minutes-wise

Then RJ you think starts at 2, but the others are better shooters. So does Dot get the nod early being the best 2-way of those? Or Trier if they need more scoring? If either has improved this offseason, both have a shot outside of #3 pick taking priority

The 3 becomes much clearer without Morris. But iirc he's the best defender and solid all around. Knox then Iggy & Dot certainly need some minutes. Tho I bet Dot in particular plays some 2

Which is my last point, especially w/ the breakdown of set positions, there's gonna be a lot more overlap & grey area for positions. It's conceivable RJ / Iggy / KK do what Vonleh was doing from the 4-5 & bring the ball up. With EP the lone passing PG, this might be a more common in game move, even aside from the mandate to break. As people have said, there's a lot on Fizzy this time, interesting to see how he does
Assist percentage is an NBA stat  
shyster : 7/11/2019 4:12 pm : link
Signifies the percentage of teammates' field goals that you assist on while you are on the floor.

Payton did have a higher assist percentage than DSJ last year but not by a lot -- 32 percent to 28 percent.

I find this stat to be pretty illuminating. Knox was abysmal. Ranked 441 out of 510 players who saw any NBA playing time. My biggest concern about his game.



Link to stat  
shyster : 7/11/2019 4:13 pm : link
x
nba advanced - ( New Window )
I wouldn't waste much  
Enzo : 7/11/2019 4:17 pm : link
time trying to figure out this rotation. There's simply way too many guys. I'm only sorta confident that two guys will get big minutes - Randle and Mitch. And even Mitch you can't be sure about since you never know if/when he'll be in foul trouble (maybe he improves in this area).
I just want an actual rotation this year.  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 4:24 pm : link
It's time to raise the bar on Fizdale a bit - no more playing 15 guys and "evaluating" rotations for the entire season. I got so tired of Dotson (and several others) playing 40 minutes one game and getting DNPs the next two. I think it's time to start resembling a professional basketball team.
Fiz  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
sucked last year. Sure the talent did too but he didn't do a good job. He'd be on the hot seat for me after the season if the young players don't take a step forward.
Fair enough shyster. Good addition w/ that stat  
ChaChing : 7/11/2019 4:28 pm : link
I'd rather DSJ becomes the long term PG because he seems to have a fairly high ceiling still, esp as a scorer. And it could be Payton comes off the bench for a little more stability on the floor

While the starting group can do more with DSJ in theory even if he is a lesser floor general atm (I'd think atm) - Randle can do a lot with the ball, Portis too. Then KK / RJ aren't PG dependent either...tho you'd think we need less scoring if that was the 4, while PG / handle isn't a requirement

Again it's gonna be who works best - best PnR pairs, best trio on the strong side, best motor & team D if not just best choice to defend specific players. Gonna need a shooter or 2 which they seem to have more now, be it strong or weakside. Likely a lot of changes & experimentation early
My  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2019 4:29 pm : link
fear is Fitz putting DSJ on the bench as a "scorer". He's either a PG or he's not an NBA player.
RE: supposedly kevun durant made the warriors give up a 1st  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/11/2019 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14496686 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..

How does that make sense? He didn't like the perception that he was being traded straight up for Russell so instead he wanted the perception to be that he's not even good enough to be traded straight up for Russell, the GSW had to kick in a 1st rounder?

Obviously GSW wasn't kicking in a 1st because Russell is in any way more valuable than Durant (except for next season), but how does KD's (self-)perceived value increase by GSW including a 1st?
I think with more established vets  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 4:53 pm : link
Fiz has to esablish a set rotation..

RE: My  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14496820 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
fear is Fitz putting DSJ on the bench as a "scorer". He's either a PG or he's not an NBA player.


knicks do not need a scorer off the bench, with trier off the bench..
Begley adds the Knicks  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2019 4:56 pm : link
view Morris and Bullock signings as "likely."
RE: RE: supposedly kevun durant made the warriors give up a 1st  
Strahan91 : 7/11/2019 4:57 pm : link
In comment 14496834 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14496686 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


in the sign and trade because he didnt like the perception that he was being traded straight up for russell..


How does that make sense? He didn't like the perception that he was being traded straight up for Russell so instead he wanted the perception to be that he's not even good enough to be traded straight up for Russell, the GSW had to kick in a 1st rounder?

Obviously GSW wasn't kicking in a 1st because Russell is in any way more valuable than Durant (except for next season), but how does KD's (self-)perceived value increase by GSW including a 1st?

Windhorst wasn't clear on this point. My guess is it was about perception. It looked like Russell was being traded for the pick and not Durant straight up.
RE: RE: My  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2019 5:00 pm : link
In comment 14496842 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14496820 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


fear is Fitz putting DSJ on the bench as a "scorer". He's either a PG or he's not an NBA player.



knicks do not need a scorer off the bench, with trier off the bench..


Trier was a perfect example of extremely odd messaging from Fitz... I like Trier but why was he given a different set of rules within the system?
With Durant having a player option for the 4th year  
dep026 : 7/11/2019 6:12 pm : link
The timeline for the Nets to basically convince him to stay isat most 2 years. Next year is a wash. The year afterwill be his first competitive b-ball in 16 months and probably wonít be the favorites in the east.

That signing is going to come back and haunt Brooklyn.
What haunts them?  
hitdog42 : 7/11/2019 6:22 pm : link
They gave up nothing- swapped Irving and dlo-
Kept youth and picks- and added prince.
They lost vets.
I struggle to understand what they are going to miss out on?
And if heís healthy and it hits- fantastic.
RE: With Durant having a player option for the 4th year  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2019 6:34 pm : link
In comment 14496885 dep026 said:
Quote:
The timeline for the Nets to basically convince him to stay isat most 2 years. Next year is a wash. The year afterwill be his first competitive b-ball in 16 months and probably wonít be the favorites in the east.

That signing is going to come back and haunt Brooklyn.


he will probably end his career in brooklyn
RE: What haunts them?  
TyreeHelmet : 7/11/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14496892 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
They gave up nothing- swapped Irving and dlo-
Kept youth and picks- and added prince.
They lost vets.
I struggle to understand what they are going to miss out on?
And if heís healthy and it hits- fantastic.


Exactly. I never understood the argument that it was a risky signing. The reward far outweighs any risk. You are getting one of the one of the best players to ever play the game from ages 32-34 at a minimum. And they got a first round pick in return.

Itís actually sad and ironic the Nets were the ones getting a 1st and 2 max players while the Knicks struck out in both...
Knicks officially sign Morris  
Strahan91 : 7/11/2019 7:33 pm : link
per Shams
RE: RE: What haunts them?  
Strahan91 : 7/11/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14496929 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14496892 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


They gave up nothing- swapped Irving and dlo-
Kept youth and picks- and added prince.
They lost vets.
I struggle to understand what they are going to miss out on?
And if heís healthy and it hits- fantastic.



Exactly. I never understood the argument that it was a risky signing. The reward far outweighs any risk. You are getting one of the one of the best players to ever play the game from ages 32-34 at a minimum. And they got a first round pick in return.

Itís actually sad and ironic the Nets were the ones getting a 1st and 2 max players while the Knicks struck out in both...

You sound like SAS. Maybe consider becoming a Nets fan?
It's hardly a first round pick.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2019 7:40 pm : link
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