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Clowney / Holdout

V.I.G. : 7/10/2019 12:50 pm
Texans told him no LT deal. Will be franchised -& gt; camp holdout

Reportedly O'Brien and GM had big disagreement on this which led to the parting.

Key Questions:
Would you trade for him?
If so, what trade price?
If so, what contract terms?
Is it possible to restructure enough to fit this year?

Me:
Yes
2020/21 2nd Rounders
6 year, $125
Maybe? Martin, Rhett cuts worth 12mm, less with 3mm deadcap
No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
jlukes : 7/10/2019 12:53 pm : link
for an injury prone player
No..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/10/2019 12:54 pm : link
would not trade for him.

Questionable work ethic and often nicked up.

I saw him play in middle school and he was a beast. But he's had to have people stay with him since HS to keep him on track and he comes from a screwy family situation.
pass this year  
Giantsfan79 : 7/10/2019 12:55 pm : link
personally I don't think he's lived up to the expectations a #1 pick should have. He's a good player but not a game changer yet. Let him play out the one year deal with the Texans and see. He should be motivated to put up monster numbers and I'd like to see that before opening the bank.
RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
V.I.G. : 7/10/2019 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14495949 jlukes said:
Quote:
for an injury prone player

where are you going to spend all your money next year?
No way I want anything to do with Clowney  
BillT : 7/10/2019 12:56 pm : link
Weíre not one player away. The rebuild is going well and a donít want to either give up high picks or shell out big bucks. Either Carter or Golden or both could be as good as Clowney.
RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
Klaatu : 7/10/2019 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14495956 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14495949 jlukes said:


Quote:


for an injury prone player


where are you going to spend all your money next year?


RT, ILB, FS.
RE: pass this year  
V.I.G. : 7/10/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14495953 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
personally I don't think he's lived up to the expectations a #1 pick should have. He's a good player but not a game changer yet. Let him play out the one year deal with the Texans and see. He should be motivated to put up monster numbers and I'd like to see that before opening the bank.

he could be franchised each of the next three years
RE: RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
V.I.G. : 7/10/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14495962 Klaatu said:
Quote:

RT, ILB, FS.


OK but show me the 2020 free agents that you want at those positions...
RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
jlukes : 7/10/2019 1:03 pm : link
In comment 14495956 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14495949 jlukes said:


Quote:


for an injury prone player


where are you going to spend all your money next year?


You do realize that you can carry cap room over from one year to the next? Spending money just because you have it is an awful strategy
RE: RE: RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
Klaatu : 7/10/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14495964 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14495962 Klaatu said:


Quote:



RT, ILB, FS.



OK but show me the 2020 free agents that you want at those positions...


La'el Collins, Blake Martinez, Kevin Byard (or Justin Simmons).

And that's in addition to NOT sacrificing any future draft picks.
no from me as well  
UConn4523 : 7/10/2019 1:06 pm : link
we can use two 2nds to move up in drafts and get a pass rusher. Clowney is also injury prone and strikes me as a guy who will dog it once paid.
How about saving money so we can eventually extend  
jlukes : 7/10/2019 1:07 pm : link
Hernandez, Barkley and others.

No reason to give out huge signing bonus and mortgage future cap room.

Guaranteed salaries that are essentially 2 or 3 year contracts is all we should be giving out next year
RE: How about saving money so we can eventually extend  
figgy2989 : 7/10/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14495977 jlukes said:
Quote:
Hernandez, Barkley and others.

No reason to give out huge signing bonus and mortgage future cap room.

Guaranteed salaries that are essentially 2 or 3 year contracts is all we should be giving out next year


I am with jlukes here. No need to shell out those long term cap crippling type deals. Wait for the time to be right and extend your own. Isn't this why DG was ushered out of Carolina? He wouldn't extend players to long term deals when he knew that they would end up hurting the cap in the long term.
For all those that say no  
Carl in CT : 7/10/2019 1:11 pm : link
And Iím probably one of them for reasons stated above, after theee or four games with no pass rush, we will change our minds
RE: For all those that say no  
Giantsfan79 : 7/10/2019 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14495984 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
And Iím probably one of them for reasons stated above, after theee or four games with no pass rush, we will change our minds


The guy has 29 sacks in 5 years. Doesn't scream can't miss pass rusher.
Cannot be traded for  
djstat : 7/10/2019 1:21 pm : link
He has not signed the tender thus cannot be traded.
and/or  
Giantsfan79 : 7/10/2019 1:27 pm : link
since Clowney was drafted 40 players have accumulated more sacks including both Vernon & JPP. So?
Not the stats of a $100 million player - ( New Window )
RE: For all those that say no  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/10/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14495984 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
And Iím probably one of them for reasons stated above, after theee or four games with no pass rush, we will change our minds


At that point, it is just as likely that Clowney will have already missed a game due to some ailment.
RE: and/or  
PatersonPlank : 7/10/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14496014 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
since Clowney was drafted 40 players have accumulated more sacks including both Vernon & JPP. So? Not the stats of a $100 million player - ( New Window )


This is my impression too. I thought he was a bust as the top pick frankly. He just seems like a decent to good player, not a star.
RE: RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/10/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14495969 jlukes said:
Quote:
In comment 14495956 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


In comment 14495949 jlukes said:


Quote:


for an injury prone player


where are you going to spend all your money next year?



You do realize that you can carry cap room over from one year to the next? Spending money just because you have it is an awful strategy

Based on the number of posters who say things like "so what if so-and-so is a bad cap value, who are you spending on in free agency at this point anyway?" I'd say it's fairly likely that there's a sizable contingent of regulars here who don't know that cap room carries over, despite it having been the rule for at least the past few years.
Don't forget, he plays with Watt as well  
ZogZerg : 7/10/2019 1:48 pm : link
You would think that alone would get him a big number of sacks, etc.
RE: RE: and/or  
V.I.G. : 7/10/2019 1:53 pm : link
In comment 14496029 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:

This is my impression too. I thought he was a bust as the top pick frankly. He just seems like a decent to good player, not a star.


Fair enough guys. My final thoughts:
1) When the new CBA comes rolling in, the 2021 contracts will seem even more ridiculous.
2) I'm not saying Clowney is a khalil mack star - that cost the bears 2 first rounders, IIRC.
3) Re: other priorities of RT, FS, ILB, get me those in the draft as there's less of a bust rate at those positions than there is for EDGE, IMHO
we shouldn't take fliers on guys  
UConn4523 : 7/10/2019 2:13 pm : link
just because the cap will increase. If we don't really really want a guy that will cost $100m, then don't it, plain and simple. Its more than just money, its precedence, cultural fit, etc.
It isn't just..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/10/2019 2:18 pm : link
taking a flier. That would be a low-risk FA move.

This would have to be a trade, which is borderline moronic to even think about.

Giving up assets for a player who has met expectations one season in his career, while playing alongside one of the dominant sack men in the game.

Trading for an impact player has to come with proven performance. A perception that the player works hard would be nice, as well.
Giving Clowney a ton of money  
ghost718 : 7/10/2019 3:13 pm : link
Sounds like a job for the Houston Texans
RE:  
Klaatu : 7/10/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14496042 V.I.G. said:
Quote:

3) Re: other priorities of RT, FS, ILB, get me those in the draft as there's less of a bust rate at those positions than there is for EDGE, IMHO


That simply makes no sense at all. If you have the resources to get three starting-caliber players at those positions - positions where the need is undeniable - without mortgaging your future or sacrificing draft picks, you do it. You don't spend a fortune on an a FA ER and hope you can draft a starter at RT, FS, and ILB. Are you going to pass up a top-tier LT, or WR, or C (not to mention ER)? How about a stud TE, should one fall our way? Even if you sign two of those three and look to upgrade the third in the draft, at least you haven't hamstrung yourself.
...  
christian : 7/10/2019 3:53 pm : link
Absolutely not. Not because he isn't a very productive player -- he's a definite pocket disrupter.

But giving up picks for the right to spend a bunch of money should be reserved for Mack type players, who are 1 or 2 levels above Clowney.
RE: RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 7/10/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14495969 jlukes said:
Quote:
In comment 14495956 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


In comment 14495949 jlukes said:


Quote:


for an injury prone player


where are you going to spend all your money next year?



You do realize that you can carry cap room over from one year to the next? Spending money just because you have it is an awful strategy


You do realize that there is a limit to how much you can roll over?

Probably not.
I really trust Gettleman's vision for the team, and wouldn't give up  
yatqb : 7/10/2019 5:27 pm : link
draft choices at this point. I expect another strong draft to solidify both the OL and front 7 next year. One more good draft and we'll be contenders, as long as Jones pans out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/12/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14496180 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14495969 jlukes said:


Quote:


In comment 14495956 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


In comment 14495949 jlukes said:


Quote:


for an injury prone player


where are you going to spend all your money next year?



You do realize that you can carry cap room over from one year to the next? Spending money just because you have it is an awful strategy



You do realize that there is a limit to how much you can roll over?

Probably not.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure you just need to be at 89% or more of the cap on a rolling three year basis, so as long as you have some years where you're at or near the full cap, you can roll over as much as you have unused. The key is that you do need to ultimately use it in a manner that your rolling three year average still complies with the 89% rule.
Are you nuts?  
mrvax : 7/12/2019 12:50 pm : link
With all his warts mentioned above and now he's going to hold out? The Giants are trying to get rid of shitheads, not collect them.
RE: RE: No thank you - not giving up picks and all of that money  
NephilimGiants : 7/14/2019 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14495956 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14495949 jlukes said:


Quote:


for an injury prone player


where are you going to spend all your money next year?


Dante Fowler will be UFA. More atheletic then Clowney imo
No to Clowney.  
section125 : 7/14/2019 2:21 pm : link
He's not worth what he is asking and he is always hurt. Just got rid of OV who was always hurt.
As far as who they spend their money on, let's see who develops this year with whom they already have on the team.
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