Optimist thought: What if Daniel Jones is for real?

that in a few years I think we are going to be able to look back at your viral social media post and laugh about it with a sigh of relief that things are good.

he needs to start right away. or very quickly. no need to waste time on the sidelines.

In comment 14495955 Chris684 said:

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that in a few years I think we are going to be able to look back at your viral social media post and laugh about it with a sigh of relief that things are good.

Lol, like I said just after it went viral, man I hope so.

In comment 14495957 theold5j said:

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he needs to start right away. or very quickly. no need to waste time on the sidelines.

i might be the only one who thinks this, because everyone i know is arguing with me

But i think he wins the starting QB job by mid season, despite the record

In comment 14495976 cjac said:

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In comment 14495957 theold5j said: Quote: he needs to start right away. or very quickly. no need to waste time on the sidelines. i might be the only one who thinks this, because everyone i know is arguing with me But i think he wins the starting QB job by mid season, despite the record

I don't think you're off base for thinking that. I actually think it could be even sooner.

for an NFL team faster than a good young QB. It changes everything. One good drive by Daniel Jones this season will have people ten times more excited than by anything Saquon did last year.

It is because Eli lost it. As "great" as the kid maybe, he is still a rookie.

So I don’t know if I’m being impartial here or not, but after the mini camps and talking with some people associated with Duke who know the kid, I am very optimistic about him. I think he could be the real deal.

Jones has everything a QB needs to be successful and I expect he will be. DG will be shown to be justified in selecting and there will be lots of egg on lots of faces in the media. Win, win.

about Jones than I'd be if we had Sam "oops where's the football?" Darnold.

Time will tell, but Barkley is the goods and Jones shows potential. Darnold isn't a guy I'd ever feel comfortable with.

Basically when his rookie contract ends. Building a roster around a cheap rookie QB contract is the blueprint today. The second contract brings issues (see Seattle). Assuming he is the goods the cycle would be like this:

Playoff window through rookie contract

Slight downturn for 2 years as the contracts for other players signed during the rookie QB salary window get too large and Jones get a bigger deal.

Short playoff window through the back-half of Jones' second contract.

The team said Eli would be the starter as long as the team was in contention even before drafting Jones. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to see, but like it or not, Eli's legacy as a Giant is important to Mara, which means this is not your normal rookie QB situation. The mindset is that Jones can learn a lot from Eli while giving our 2-time SB MVP one last run at it. That's the plan -and it's altogether different than having Eli and Jones fight it out in camp. For Jones to start, the team would need to see something to convince them their plan is wrong, sufficiently to prompt their giving up on Eli. That's not likely, even if Jones looks the better player.

is winning. If Darnold goes on to a HOF career and Jones is just very good does that mean it was the wrong pick? The player who wins more games or Superbowls is going to be the better pick.

Look at Eli Manning, was he the best QB of the 3 the year he was drafted? It doesn't matter really, it worked out for the Giants and Pittsburgh. Not so well for SD even though their GM thinks he got the better of the Giants.

Winning is all that matters to me. Give me an average DJ with 2 Superbowls in 12 years over a Dan Marino. I root for the team over the players especially in this day and age. If the Jets win Superbowls with Darnold and we don't it will be some dark days.

For the record I wanted Darnold and didn't want SB at all because RBs are low draft value these days. SB is a great talent but longevity of the position is usually not there. If we had drafted Darnold would he have played last year and how would it have affected our draft position? Would we have traded Eli this offseason or cut him loose? Would we have traded OBJ?

that Jones is going to be a franchise QB. In 2-3 years we will look back and laugh at all the analysts like Ray Lucas who laughed at the pick. Of course by then they will all act as if they weren't part of this group.

If Gettleman is right we will have an amazing future with Barkley and Jones as the faces of the franchise.

He cant be for real
NY media say we should picked sam darnold in 2018 and josh allen this yr.
doesnt matter saquon looks like a generational talent at RB
I would be doing cartwheels if D Jones ends up as a top 12 QB by yr 3. And I dont believe its far fetched.
Excited to see how he plays with actual talent on his side of the ball.

I don't think it is particularly wise, especially if the Giants are still trying to actually win as many games as possible, for whatever reason, rather than throw in the towel for a full reboot.

Joe Montana only started 7 games during his second season with the 49ers, and he was on the bench behind the immortal Steve DeBerg - who was actually at least a competent NFL QB, but was no Eli Manning with two significant pieces of hardware.

Stop pretending Eli is chopped liver out there, at least until we get a good look at him behind a competent OL for the first time in a freaking decade.

i'd love to hear an opinion from David Carr or Phil Simms about the "rush" to start Jones at QB. I'm not in with Terps on this theory.

In comment 14496067 Payasdaddy said:

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He cant be for real NY media say we should picked sam darnold in 2018 and josh allen this yr. doesnt matter saquon looks like a generational talent at RB I would be doing cartwheels if D Jones ends up as a top 12 QB by yr 3. And I dont believe its far fetched. Excited to see how he plays with actual talent on his side of the ball.

Is top 12 QB really that great? After spending the number 6 pick on someone, your dream scenario is that he is top 12? You're doing cartwheels if he is in the range of Dak?

In comment 14496071 BlueLou'sBack said:

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I don't think it is particularly wise, especially if the Giants are still trying to actually win as many games as possible, for whatever reason, rather than throw in the towel for a full reboot. Joe Montana only started 7 games during his second season with the 49ers, and he was on the bench behind the immortal Steve DeBerg - who was actually at least a competent NFL QB, but was no Eli Manning with two significant pieces of hardware. Stop pretending Eli is chopped liver out there, at least until we get a good look at him behind a competent OL for the first time in a freaking decade. i'd love to hear an opinion from David Carr or Phil Simms about the "rush" to start Jones at QB. I'm not in with Terps on this theory.

I don't think there's an urgency to start him, but there's also no reason whatsoever to stand in his way if he's earning it at this point.

with saquon and a good defense (hopefully we are building to that) top 12 works
do I want top 5 of course
But top 12 means playoff qb and the other 20 teams in the league wouldnt mind it
I dont project Jones with top 5 upside if he was #1 pick overall or 24th pick
JMHO

In comment 14496048 UberAlias said:

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The team said Eli would be the starter as long as the team was in contention even before drafting Jones. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to see, but like it or not, Eli's legacy as a Giant is important to Mara, which means this is not your normal rookie QB situation. The mindset is that Jones can learn a lot from Eli while giving our 2-time SB MVP one last run at it. That's the plan -and it's altogether different than having Eli and Jones fight it out in camp. For Jones to start, the team would need to see something to convince them their plan is wrong, sufficiently to prompt their giving up on Eli. That's not likely, even if Jones looks the better player.

Shurmur also said that the moment they think that D Jones gives them a better chance to win, he will play.

i really think we see him as the starter at some point. and i dont see any evidence that this team will be heading the division 8 games in with Philly and Dallas having the rosters they do.

not heading

In comment 14496071 BlueLou'sBack said:

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I don't think it is particularly wise, especially if the Giants are still trying to actually win as many games as possible, for whatever reason, rather than throw in the towel for a full reboot. Joe Montana only started 7 games during his second season with the 49ers, and he was on the bench behind the immortal Steve DeBerg - who was actually at least a competent NFL QB, but was no Eli Manning with two significant pieces of hardware. Stop pretending Eli is chopped liver out there, at least until we get a good look at him behind a competent OL for the first time in a freaking decade. i'd love to hear an opinion from David Carr or Phil Simms about the "rush" to start Jones at QB. I'm not in with Terps on this theory.

In today's NFL, young QBs experience success much quicker than they did in previous generations. The comparisons to old guys like Montana from generations past don't really hold anymore. You don't really see the top prospects sitting for a year or two and then stinking up the joint their first year starting while they take their lumps.

What you see now is systems that are designed to keep things simple and geared toward the young QB's strengths as he matures and while opposing teams don't have enough film on him to exploit his weaknesses (along with the current NFL rules that make it easier to pass than ever before).

What's also different about today's NFL is that switching to a young (high-drafted) QB does not signal a "reboot" or surrender. What it often actually does is spark a team. The Giants can start Jones and still be trying to win as many games as possible. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I love Eli (and always will), but as soon as Jones is capable of getting in games that count and moving the offense down the field, he needs to be in there. If the pass protection is (finally) good this year, that's more reason to get Jones in there, not less. You don't want a young QB getting shell-shocked by a terrible offensive line while he's trying to learn how to see an NFL field.

Eli's contract is over after this season, and Jones is the future. You don't make franchise decisions based on sentimentality.

Lombardi sky high in Feb 2020. Perfect.

In comment 14496071 BlueLou'sBack said:

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I don't think it is particularly wise, especially if the Giants are still trying to actually win as many games as possible, for whatever reason, rather than throw in the towel for a full reboot. Joe Montana only started 7 games during his second season with the 49ers, and he was on the bench behind the immortal Steve DeBerg - who was actually at least a competent NFL QB, but was no Eli Manning with two significant pieces of hardware Stop pretending Eli is chopped liver out there, at least until we get a good look at him behind a competent OL for the first time in a freaking decade. i'd love to hear an opinion from David Carr or Phil Simms about the "rush" to start Jones at QB. I'm not in with Terps on this theory.

The 6th pick in the draft, and you don’t think there should be any urgency to start him?

I get Eli should start the season as the # 1 guy, if he is the better quarterback. The second there is evidence , regardless of the record, that Jones is better, he should start.

Eli had his chances, some great seasons, too many bad ones, the Giants do not owe him this one.

shouldn't be any urgency.

Quote:

The 6th pick in the draft, and you don’t think there should be any urgency to start him?

There should be prudence used so that when he's ready, he can start if he gives the team the best chance to win. Who cares that he was picked 6th? Mahomes was picked 10th and the Chiefs traded up. He sat a year behind an effective Smith, then stepped in Year 2 and played excellent. Did him not playing in Year 1 negatively impact either himself or the Chiefs??

You really don't learn much more about the QB if he plays year 1. Rosen played a shitload. He's now gone. Darnold has the same questions heading into this year that he did to start last year.

In comment 14495957 theold5j said:

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he needs to start right away. or very quickly. no need to waste time on the sidelines.

Indeed. For me, Jones should start immediately regardless of all the circumstances in play - Eli, Eli’s legacy, Mara’s commitment to Eli, etc.

Experience is the key here. I don’t care if Jones throws 20 interceptions as a rookie. Get reps, got comfortable with NFL speed, get used to NFL hits, get used to an NFL pocket without getting the yips. You aren’t getting any of that in clipboard city.

And we need to find out ASAP if Jones is a boom or bust. If it’s bust, we can move on quickly to other options. If boom, we start to reap the benefits of that rookie deal, which, as mentioned, is huge in building out the rest of the team’s needs.

It’s never been easier to play QB in the NFL. No need to act like it’s 1989. Let’s see what we’ve got with such a critical draft investment.

He is for real.

Shut up.

Lots of optimism for Daniel Jones.

if he looks competent in the preseason. With all the developmental QBs they've picked, none even looked like they could function if ever called upon. There were rookie free agents on other teams that looked good in the preseason and the guys that the Giants drafted (with "we had a first round grade on this guy!") look absolutely lost.

The circus media stirs and emotional fans fall for hides an important dynamic

Im for the Giants Team over the long run. To me, the Eli vs Jones conversation is a sideshow debate

We cant criticize Eli for not doing well for several years now given the OL-especially up the gut.

We cant note that the time to throw for a Giants Qb has been amongst the shortest in the league for some time.

We don't want the next Qb to have the habits of happy feet and lowered eyes early in his career ( we have seen talented QBS affected by the need to not lose the football in the collapsing pocket and the countervailing judgement that buys each receiver a quarter/half a second more.

To me, the debate is not Eli vs Jones. To me, the same guys who are fine with tossing Eli aside should be happy to do so until we have some coherence on the OL, especially at center and RT.

Normally, with a new OL that takes 4-8 games. To me, that's the leading indicator of any transition. Not a made up year of cost control argument or the "some other rookie QB's played " argument. Those are other teams and other years and other future cap situations and on and on.

To me, those are secondary fan like arguments. Getting a rookie a half a second more and at least league average pressures allowed is the prime reason to slow down or speed up the transition to Jones sometime this year. Yes regardless of how Eli is playing. Unless its a playoff winning ( not playoff reaching) quality team ( unlikely this year), risk of a longer period to undo bad habits is not worth it if we have a potential franchise QB for years ahead.

Imo, it is a reasonable move with a rookie QB if we have a below average pressures allowed OL is to protect existing assets ( find garbage times in some games and against teams with poor pass rushers) and finish the Ol in the offseason.

The QB is not the prime building block of a multi year good team, rather its a young enough and good enough OL

for a couple of years now. Completely agree.

It's not Oline vs QB vs Defense. QB is one position. Oline is 5. Defense is 11+. If you want to have sustained success, you need strength in more than one area. But if we are talking about individual positions, QB is most important, and it is not even close. Oline is only as strong as it's weakest link, not it's strongest.

In comment 14496159 bradshaw44 said:

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Lombardi sky high in Feb 2020. Perfect.

Yes, a perfect scenario. Let us all hope.

And I don't care whether Eli or Barkley get the MVP for the Super Bowl.

2020 is when he starts.

real?

Then we will be very happy and the noise on Gettleman will subside.

then if they get a receiver or two to step up, it may be like the Greatest Show on Turf Part II.

They would have the QB and the RB, OL would have to be decent (I never thought of the Rams as having a great OL...Strahan used to destroy them)...just need an Isaac Bruce type.

Will run through Saquon and I think there is enough weapons for Rli to play good efficient football. I don’t see Jones playing very much st all. I think the team will be somewhat competitive which will be enough to keep Jones on the bench.

then there's a lot of NFL twitter that will be pretending they didn't roast Gettlemen mercilessly for passing on Darnold and reaching for Jones. And Gettlemen will have picked a HOF caliber RB and Franchise QB in back to back drafts and have sealed a pretty impressive Giants legacy.

pussy footing around Eli's pride and hurt feelings if thats the case, has anybody seen anything from Eli the last few years that would indicate him bringing us to the playoffs any time soon..

In comment 14495997 Ben in Tampa said:

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So I don’t know if I’m being impartial here or not, but after the mini camps and talking with some people associated with Duke who know the kid, I am very optimistic about him. I think he could be the real deal.

the real question with Jones is will he get a fair chance at winning the starting job or does Eli get the job by default, if I were Shurmur or Gettleman I would yell loud and long because they're jobs are in this mix too...

In comment 14495976 cjac said:

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i might be the only one who thinks this, because everyone i know is arguing with me But i think he wins the starting QB job by mid season, despite the record

I think Eli's play would have to diminish greatly for that to happen.

In comment 14496101 cjac said:

Quote:

In comment 14496048 UberAlias said: Quote: The team said Eli would be the starter as long as the team was in contention even before drafting Jones. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to see, but like it or not, Eli's legacy as a Giant is important to Mara, which means this is not your normal rookie QB situation. The mindset is that Jones can learn a lot from Eli while giving our 2-time SB MVP one last run at it. That's the plan -and it's altogether different than having Eli and Jones fight it out in camp. For Jones to start, the team would need to see something to convince them their plan is wrong, sufficiently to prompt their giving up on Eli. That's not likely, even if Jones looks the better player. Shurmur also said that the moment they think that D Jones gives them a better chance to win, he will play. i really think we see him as the starter at some point. and i dont see any evidence that this team will be heading the division 8 games in with Philly and Dallas having the rosters they do.

The problem with this is once the season starts, DJ will have no opportunity to impress. It will be 100% based on Elis play and we know he will be a pro enough not to be a total disaster.

Let's hope he is real & tells all his critics to STFU.

we should really be set up for a nice turnaround of this team.

We clearly need more parts in certain spots but if the 2019 draftees perform well and all that cap space next year fills a few strategic pieces then the team should be very competitive.

Really need somebody that can hit the opposing QB and somebody to help stretch out opposing defenses. Then we have something...

In comment 14497039 Jimmy Googs said:

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we should really be set up for a nice turnaround of this team. We clearly need more parts in certain spots but if the 2019 draftees perform well and all that cap space next year fills a few strategic pieces then the team should be very competitive. Really need somebody that can hit the opposing QB and somebody to help stretch out opposing defenses. Then we have something...

We still don't know if we have a good in-game head coach.

At least I don't know...

In comment 14496101 cjac said:

Quote:

In comment 14496048 UberAlias said: Quote: The team said Eli would be the starter as long as the team was in contention even before drafting Jones. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to see, but like it or not, Eli's legacy as a Giant is important to Mara, which means this is not your normal rookie QB situation. The mindset is that Jones can learn a lot from Eli while giving our 2-time SB MVP one last run at it. That's the plan -and it's altogether different than having Eli and Jones fight it out in camp. For Jones to start, the team would need to see something to convince them their plan is wrong, sufficiently to prompt their giving up on Eli. That's not likely, even if Jones looks the better player. Shurmur also said that the moment they think that D Jones gives them a better chance to win, he will play. i really think we see him as the starter at some point. and i dont see any evidence that this team will be heading the division 8 games in with Philly and Dallas having the rosters they do.

I'll take it that was probably not his exact quote, but of course he's going to say something like that. You don't undercut your starting QB. 'We'll do whatever gives us the best chance to win' is a chapter in the 101 coach speak curriculum.

In comment 14496544 Bill2 said:

Quote:

The circus media stirs and emotional fans fall for hides an important dynamic Im for the Giants Team over the long run. To me, the Eli vs Jones conversation is a sideshow debate We cant criticize Eli for not doing well for several years now given the OL-especially up the gut. We cant note that the time to throw for a Giants Qb has been amongst the shortest in the league for some time. We don't want the next Qb to have the habits of happy feet and lowered eyes early in his career ( we have seen talented QBS affected by the need to not lose the football in the collapsing pocket and the countervailing judgement that buys each receiver a quarter/half a second more. To me, the debate is not Eli vs Jones. To me, the same guys who are fine with tossing Eli aside should be happy to do so until we have some coherence on the OL, especially at center and RT. Normally, with a new OL that takes 4-8 games. To me, that's the leading indicator of any transition. Not a made up year of cost control argument or the "some other rookie QB's played " argument. Those are other teams and other years and other future cap situations and on and on. To me, those are secondary fan like arguments. Getting a rookie a half a second more and at least league average pressures allowed is the prime reason to slow down or speed up the transition to Jones sometime this year. Yes regardless of how Eli is playing. Unless its a playoff winning ( not playoff reaching) quality team ( unlikely this year), risk of a longer period to undo bad habits is not worth it if we have a potential franchise QB for years ahead. Imo, it is a reasonable move with a rookie QB if we have a below average pressures allowed OL is to protect existing assets ( find garbage times in some games and against teams with poor pass rushers) and finish the Ol in the offseason. The QB is not the prime building block of a multi year good team, rather its a young enough and good enough OL

^ This!!!
Which is why I was one of the main reasons I was proponent of waiting another year before getting Eli's successor. I more year to complete the overhaul of the OL...

The last thing you want is to have the shiny new QB to be (S)Carred by an atrocious OL... Given that it will have some new starters this year, I would expect it to take some time for the line to gel.

Id go further and posit that "many" (but not all) a "successful" rookie QB were on teams that had strong OL.

Yes experiences that teach lessons about playing and defenses are good. Recognition and timing is good. Bad experiences that teach bad reactions and bad timing are bad. Bad habits are hard to break.

Yes he was under pressure at Duke. And perservered

uh...yes...he was under pressure at DUKE, His footwork is now new and improved. In the offseason.

Not yet footwork and timing habits learned under what pressure means in the NFL.

to me, if we have an NFL average core and an NFL average time to throw and an NFL average pressures allowed per game ( has to be interpreted against who the opponents were and how badly they needed to get to the QB ( prevents when we are far ahead or far behind don't count) then let him learn. To me, it has nothing to do with how Eli is playing. If he is close to ready and the OL is average or better...the future matters.

Note we don't have a world beater back up so if we mess this guy up we are up a creek without a paddle.

For 2019, my hope is watchable football so 2020 is root able football. I also do not think Jones playing time is the critical leading indicator of success in the years ahead. I think its PS. Im not sold on the HC yet. imo

So if we are 6-2, we make the switch? C'mon maaaan!


In comment 14495976 cjac said:

Quote:

In comment 14495957 theold5j said: Quote: he needs to start right away. or very quickly. no need to waste time on the sidelines. i might be the only one who thinks this, because everyone i know is arguing with me But i think he wins the starting QB job by mid season, despite the record

With that in place we will see how much it held back Eli. I saw Good Morning Football demonstrate how Eli couldn't reach Odell on a deep pass last season. They totally ignored that he had to throw off his back leg because he was about to be crushed.

In comment 14496871 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 14495976 cjac said: Quote: i might be the only one who thinks this, because everyone i know is arguing with me But i think he wins the starting QB job by mid season, despite the record I think Eli's play would have to diminish greatly for that to happen.

how much worse can Eli's performance get, right now he's terrible..

In comment 14496048 UberAlias said:

Quote:

The team said Eli would be the starter as long as the team was in contention even before drafting Jones. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to see, but like it or not, Eli's legacy as a Giant is important to Mara, which means this is not your normal rookie QB situation. The mindset is that Jones can learn a lot from Eli while giving our 2-time SB MVP one last run at it. That's the plan -and it's altogether different than having Eli and Jones fight it out in camp. For Jones to start, the team would need to see something to convince them their plan is wrong, sufficiently to prompt their giving up on Eli. That's not likely, even if Jones looks the better player.

personally I'm getting tired of everybody so concerned about not hurting Eli's feelings by not starting him even if Jones looks better, the fans deserve a better decision than that..