I don't know how many have followed the tragic story of the toddler who plunged to her death on a cruise ship. The initial reports said her Grandfather lost control of her and she slipped from his arms and fell. New information suggests that the Grandfather placed her in front of what he thought was a closed window, but it was open and she fell out.
The family now wants to hold Royal Caribbean liable for the death saying they didn't know the window was open.
I understand this is a tragedy, but why do people wish to deflect blame for their own actions? Those of us with kids know that we were hyper-sensitive about what our toddlers could and couldn't do. What they would put in their mouths. What items were left out for them to get to.
A grandfather places his granddaughter in front of an open window and doesn't realize it and wants to blame the cruise ship??? I'm hoping this case gets thrown out - but events like these can lead to cruise ships locking down all windows and stupid shit like that. All because one guy was too ignorant to realize a window was open.
I certainly believe there are others that hold a different opinion. It's more a disbelief that those people are that fucking stupid. At least those who aren't doing it intentionally like you.
And yes - saying the cruise line is at fault after being shown things on this thread (especially UA's photos) most definitely makes one a contrarian.
You can wear it proudly - and I'm sure you do - as looking like a fucking moron doesn't seem to bother you in the least.
You jumped from a reasonable person standard which is pretty apparent was in place when this incident occurred to examples of gross negligence.
This isn't that.
If you’re reasonable person, but that standard alone doesn’t satisfy me. I honestly haven’t reviewed all the facts of the matter. But I’m entirely comfortable with the concept of an impartial judiciary and apparatus doing so to an enforceable conclusion. Again, to me, this is an example of the system working, not otherwise.
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You jumped from a reasonable person standard which is pretty apparent was in place when this incident occurred to examples of gross negligence.
This isn't that.
If you’re reasonable person, but that standard alone doesn’t satisfy me. I honestly haven’t reviewed all the facts of the matter. But I’m entirely comfortable with the concept of an impartial judiciary and apparatus doing so to an enforceable conclusion. Again, to me, this is an example of the system working, not otherwise.
and the fork question?
Do you expect a 100% safe environment here? The Grandfather set the toddler on a railing that overlooked an open window. He may not have been trying to kill the kid, but the point is that the kid didn't kill herself, nor would've been able to without the assistance of being placed on a railing.
Please help me understand what safeguard the cruise line needs to implement to keep a person from intentionally setting a child on a railing?
The level of safety is adequate to protect against a person unintentionally walking over the railing and falling. Should there be metal bars? Should it be impossible to open windows?
Better yet - why would you have the expectation that the cruise ship needs to have that type of additional security? Because of one person who did a dangerous and stupid thing?
The 100% safe environment is a straw man, so of course not. But an open window large enough to pass through a small child to a drop of more than 100 feet would satisfy my standard of reasonably safe. As far as acceptable standards and an actual solution, I suggest a standard of safety similar to US hotels and apartments.
"Beware of Dog" being the classic. When the dog bites someone the blame is cast to the dog owner because he knew he had a vicious dog hence the need to post the sign. One of my favorites (true story) lawn mower company sued because an operator decided to lift it to trim his hedges. He lost control of it and seriously injured himself. The lawsuit indicated there were several warnings posted on the mower but not one saying do not use it to trim hedges. If you post warnings you have to post everything possible. Even then someone will do something not anticipated.
I had a client years ago drive his car into a building. His excuse... the building sticks out to far.
I kid you not and I could do this all day long.
Bottom line, people are free to do stupid things cause harm to selves and others and there is always an excuse and possible scapegoat. If all people owned up to their actions I would have fewer claims.
Ponderous fuckstick trolls...every damn one of you!
The fork question is also a straw man, likely with no serious intention of debate, but I’ll bite b/c I’m in SFO with two hours to kill.
The fork in electric socket question requires context and subsequent deliberation. Is the toddler in a day care? A school? A lab or an office complex? Perhaps on an airplane or a train? From where did the fork come and by whom was the fork given to the toddler?
Does personal responsibility completely exonerated and exempt all companies and persons from any and all liability and responsibility for everything? Of course that’s a ridiculous position I’m certain you don’t take. But, to me at least, it’s the other side of the “personal responsibility” argument.
As usual, the answer is somewhere in between. I don’t think taking a toddler to sea makes any sense whatsoever. Less so, to hoist said toddler atop a guard rail in front of an open window. But, the cruise line markets to families and sells tickets to toddlers and old people and so has a responsibility to provide a reasonably safe environment. I think. And as previously said, a window large enough to pass through a small child above more 100 feet of concrete (and open ocean!) doesn’t satisfy my notion of reasonably safe.
Women arrested driving with pool/kids on roof - ( New Window )
Well, my wife’s plane just landed anyway so my time’s up.
There is no way for a small child to accidentally fall from that window. None, zero, nada. Have any other children fallen through one of these windows? Doesn't appear so, since there is one indispensable condition for this accident - a man stupid enough to hold a toddler in an open window 100 feet from the ground. Fortunately, few people are that stupid.
How about the railings on the open decks now? We need to fence people in so it feels like a fucking prison ship?
Jimmy Googs : 7/12/2019 3:08 pm : link : reply
Fat man already gave his opinion so that’s the absolute right answer.
Ponderous fuckstick trolls...every damn one of you!
Not every damn one of you. Just you!
Please don't tell me the running of the urinals is dead
it so common that it really isn't ponderous at this point...
I'm not taking the Grandfather's side. I wouldn't be surprised if the S.O.B. was drunk, but there are a lot of drunk people on cruise ships and that has to be taken into account. One should expect a higher standard of safety on a mega cruise ship then one would expect in a national park, or an adults only vacation
I'm not taking the Grandfather's side. I wouldn't be surprised if the S.O.B. was drunk, but there are a lot of drunk people on cruise ships and that has to be taken into account. One should expect a higher standard of safety on a mega cruise ship then one would expect in a national park, or an adults only vacation
The safety standard is extremely high. And no, observation decks should not be enclosed. There is no place you can fall off a deck unless you try real hard or are impaired and still try real hard.