I have seen some teams using what they call an "opener", where a bullpen guy pitches the first inning, then the starter takes over.
What's the reason for this? Teams like the Angels are doing it quite a bit.
I first thought it was to guarantee the bullpen guy gets work that day. But is it to give the starting pitcher who comes in next some relief from seeing the first three hitters one less time??
But you place a good BP guys to pitch two innings against the best hitters hopefully stifling them. Then you bring in another guy to hopefully get through 3 or 4 innings to get to the meat of the BP.
The Yankees were successful using Chad Green (hard thrower) as the opener then following up with Nestor Cortes (finesse pitcher). They were 8-0 with the opener.
Due to injuries or not having a starting quality pitcher, some managers have gone to a bullpen guy for the opening inning or two and plan to use middle-relievers to get through the first half of the game.
Not sure about other teams, but the Yanks have rotated some of their long relievers between AAA and MLB for this purpose. Basically, guys like Adams/Cortes will be called up to provide depth if they're going to use an opener and then sent down afterwards so they can get an extra arm up without taxing everyone.
This, its strategic. Getting through a lineup clean decreases each time through. Having your opener eat through the better part of the lineup (6/7 batters) and then bringing in the long reliever will (should) help that long reliever in the long run. Even better if you can get an early lead.
It does make sense...let a guy with better stuff but who only goes an inning face the top of the order. Then the regular starter comes in and faces the mid to bottom, with a better chance for success.
An opener let’s you use a quality short man in that dangerous first against the best hitters. The starter can then take over, starting out with weaker hitters. They’ll also have the bottom of the lineup to start their third time through it. Because they face weaker hitters on average as a result, you can a longer and better performance from your starter.
At least that’s the theory.
I've seen this in college......but not yet in the pros. But I wonder why?
I do understand there is something about getting those last three outs (and defined roles).....but if the 8th inning is the when the best hitters are coming up, why not use your closer?
In a perfect scenario, the long-reliever will come in to face the 4th batter in the 2nd inning. If things go perfectly, the long-reliever doesn't face the top 3 of the lineup a second time until the 7th. (5 total innings)
If the long-reliever started, and things went perfectly, he would face the top of the lineup in the 4th (3 total innings).
An opener generally faced three to nine batters, depending on matchups — primarily with a goal of getting the first three to six outs of a game.
Cash also used “bullpen days” — outings started by relievers who usually worked deeper into games — when necessary after injuries and a series of salary-slashing moves left Tampa Bay without a customary five-man rotation.
Link - ( New Window )
I went to an Analytics function that was held by the Phillies through my Master's program.
Mickey Morandini got up and spoke, and said that he would mentally track the pitches, so he could have a better understanding of what was going to come at him next.
At this point they are jotting all this stuff down so they can study it before hand.
The game hasn't changed.
All modern businesses use analytics to some extent. Why would MLB be any different.
Quote:
show pitchers are much better against the lineup the first time through and that each successive time through, their numbers progressively get worse. So by using an "opener" (i.e. good reliever) for the first 1-2 innings, you then get your (mediocre) long reliever starting off against the bottom of the order. Thus, the first guys he sees his 2nd time through the order are the opposition's worst hitters, increasing his chances of going 4+.
This, its strategic. Getting through a lineup clean decreases each time through. Having your opener eat through the better part of the lineup (6/7 batters) and then bringing in the long reliever will (should) help that long reliever in the long run. Even better if you can get an early lead.
Exactly. To add to this, some SP statistically struggle in the first because of many reasons, one being they face the best hitters. This strategy helps in that aspect. The Angels have been doing it with Felix Pena with some degree of success.
Quote:
In comment 14496626 giants#1 said:
Quote:
show pitchers are much better against the lineup the first time through and that each successive time through, their numbers progressively get worse. So by using an "opener" (i.e. good reliever) for the first 1-2 innings, you then get your (mediocre) long reliever starting off against the bottom of the order. Thus, the first guys he sees his 2nd time through the order are the opposition's worst hitters, increasing his chances of going 4+.
This, its strategic. Getting through a lineup clean decreases each time through. Having your opener eat through the better part of the lineup (6/7 batters) and then bringing in the long reliever will (should) help that long reliever in the long run. Even better if you can get an early lead.
Exactly. To add to this, some SP statistically struggle in the first because of many reasons, one being they face the best hitters. This strategy helps in that aspect. The Angels have been doing it with Felix Pena with some degree of success.
Might work with JA Happ and to a lesser extent Tanaka.
Then again...with the state of the Met's bullpen, it could be worse....
and I am a Mets fan.
and until recently, owned Wheeler in my fantasy league.
Quote:
(which isn't used a ton) that you should bring in your *closer* in the 8th if the heart of the lineup is up and letting your best reliever face the toughest part of the lineup.
I've seen this in college......but not yet in the pros. But I wonder why?
I do understand there is something about getting those last three outs (and defined roles).....but if the 8th inning is the when the best hitters are coming up, why not use your closer?
Teams are using this. They'll bring in their guys earlier then the ninth in what is termed high leverage situations.
Quote:
In comment 14496649 giants#1 said:
Quote:
(which isn't used a ton) that you should bring in your *closer* in the 8th if the heart of the lineup is up and letting your best reliever face the toughest part of the lineup.
I've seen this in college......but not yet in the pros. But I wonder why?
I do understand there is something about getting those last three outs (and defined roles).....but if the 8th inning is the when the best hitters are coming up, why not use your closer?
Teams are using this. They'll bring in their guys earlier then the ninth in what is termed high leverage situations.
Well, I don't mean when trouble brews in the eighth, I mean to actually start it.
Say the you're beating the Yanks and they are due up 2-3-4 in the bot of the 8th.
I'd bring my #1 guy in........so you say teams are actually doing this?
That's a great question. The only explanation I can think of is that they don't want to use a bench player so early in the game in case the game goes to extra innings.
Quote:
That do this and are home don't put the pitcher to bat 1st in the lineup in the bottom of the first and then pinch hit them out with the real leadoff hitter... Might not make a huge difference but you clear the pitcher at least one time through the lineup... Over time that could add up.
That's a great question. The only explanation I can think of is that they don't want to use a bench player so early in the game in case the game goes to extra innings.
Nah Jay they arent wasting a bench player. The pitcher is in the lineup officially to start so all they are doing is going back to an 8 man lineup when they pinch hit for the pitcher only the lineup is now pushed back and you still have all of your original bench players. Again, not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things but it's something I'd like to see because it should be common sense yet nobody does it. lol.
I was also thinking you could double switch a hitter in and leave them there but then you are right back to where you started. lol