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NFT: What is the definition of bannable political content

.McL. : 7/11/2019 5:11 pm
I didn't see the threads from earlier to which Eric was referring in his pinned post.

However I was surprised that the Master List of Offensive Items thread survived last week. Granted, that one didn't turn into a complete mess the way these threads tend to go.

Talking about whether or not the Betsy Ross flag is an offensive symbol now, and what is happening at the border was ok.

And I assume anything about specific political persons, or parties is off limits.

That leads me to my question posed in the title.

Where exactly is the line drawn?

I think part of the problem is that  
adamg : 7/11/2019 5:17 pm : link
Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.

And I think the onus is on the thread starter or the person who introduces the political topic (if it's not the thread starter). How can you ban someone for responding to a post that shouldn't have been there in the first place?
Perhaps here's a good way to approach it  
Anando : 7/11/2019 5:18 pm : link
If you have to think twice about whether to post it or not, just err on the side of caution and DONT
RE: I think part of the problem is that  
Greg from LI : 7/11/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14496858 adamg said:
Quote:
Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues


My tea kettle is blue  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/11/2019 5:26 pm : link
So I can post whatever
RE: My tea kettle is blue  
madgiantscow009 : 7/11/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14496866 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
So I can post whatever


unless your pot is also blue.
I didn't think of that  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/11/2019 5:32 pm : link
Good point
If you have to ask...  
Karl Hungus : 7/11/2019 5:41 pm : link
...
If I were you I'd roll the dice  
pjcas18 : 7/11/2019 5:44 pm : link
if you're not sure, just post it.

I would stay away from  
George from PA : 7/11/2019 5:47 pm : link
Any use of the word great..as in great again, never great etc.

Requesting More love, less hate

Any variety of gender

Any daytime talk show that is women lead.

Any cable news topic

Religion

Unemployed Actors with too much time in there hands

Feel free to add
if you can't  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/11/2019 5:54 pm : link
discuss something without "needing" to bring up political figures/ideologies to have an honest discussion, don't start the thread.

Sometimes people just can't help themselves and it's possible that a thread about "Best Toasters" becomes a political warzone but that's not on the OP.
Also, do not use  
George from PA : 7/11/2019 5:58 pm : link
The word green.

Anything racist. Warning:Could be anything

Anything woke. Warning: not sure what that means

Trolls, smart-asses, and attention whores are also bannable  
Marty in Albany : 7/11/2019 6:09 pm : link
so don't get too cute.
I absolutely hate the decision....  
bw in dc : 7/11/2019 6:10 pm : link
by the BBI intelligentsia to ban political threads. Itís so un-American to me.

BBI was at its best in the late 90s when it was anything goes. It was very bloody and dirty around here...just the way I liked it. It was very raw and unplugged. You really needed a spine and tough skin.

Alas, the spineless, thin-skinned, overly-sensitive crowd won.

Those are the posters who should be banned.
I don't participate much in social media  
jcn56 : 7/11/2019 6:14 pm : link
For whatever reason, I joined the Nextdoor site - just to get posts on what's happening in the neighborhood, not to post or be active in any way.

On that site - you name the topic, in 5 posts you will more often than not end up in a political bitchfest. Most recently, one for fireworks and another asking for recommendations for a company to repair a fence (I shit you not).

So although I am fine with a ban on politics, I think it's time for some next gen analytics to find the people who twist all conversations in that direction and have them meet the banhammer.
RE: I absolutely hate the decision....  
Stan in LA : 7/11/2019 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14496883 bw in dc said:
Quote:
by the BBI intelligentsia to ban political threads. Itís so un-American to me.

BBI was at its best in the late 90s when it was anything goes. It was very bloody and dirty around here...just the way I liked it. It was very raw and unplugged. You really needed a spine and tough skin.

Alas, the spineless, thin-skinned, overly-sensitive crowd won.

Those are the posters who should be banned.


bw, want an intelligent political discussion?
Go here - ( New Window )
It's hard in today's political environment  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/11/2019 6:57 pm : link
Not for stuff to get political. It's the world we live in, for better or worse.
RE: I think part of the problem is that  
Bill L : 7/11/2019 7:07 pm : link
In comment 14496858 adamg said:
Quote:
Fatman, myself, and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.

And I think the onus is on the thread starter or the person who introduces the political topic (if it's not the thread starter). How can you ban someone for responding to a post that shouldn't have been there in the first place?


Edited for truth.
RE: It's hard in today's political environment  
jcn56 : 7/11/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14496911 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Not for stuff to get political. It's the world we live in, for better or worse.


That's kind of a cop out. Works in some cases - I would expect even reasonable people to end up in hot water discussing things like abortion.

But dude - a guy asking for recommendations on who can come fix his fence went political in literally 20 minutes. Some people can't help themselves, and those folks need their keyboards revoked permanently.
all  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/11/2019 7:12 pm : link
of the stuff you mention is off limits.

In a nutshell, most current events are off limits unless they are apolitical. But BBI posters have a way of making even apolitical current events political.

I get the sense some are testing the moderators again. The ban hammer is coming. It would be a shame to lose someone for a year or more just two weeks from camp.
RE: I absolutely hate the decision....  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/11/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14496883 bw in dc said:
Quote:
by the BBI intelligentsia to ban political threads. Itís so un-American to me.

BBI was at its best in the late 90s when it was anything goes. It was very bloody and dirty around here...just the way I liked it. It was very raw and unplugged. You really needed a spine and tough skin.

Alas, the spineless, thin-skinned, overly-sensitive crowd won.

Those are the posters who should be banned.

The internets is made out of overly sensitive souls easily triggered by words on a screen. Pathetic hysteric souls.
RE: It's hard in today's political environment  
madgiantscow009 : 7/11/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14496911 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Not for stuff to get political. It's the world we live in, for better or worse.


sure, if you're emotionally immature.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/11/2019 7:40 pm : link
On most internet platforms there is no more free speech.

Free-for-all discussions are no longer allowed without economic punishment.

There is absolutely no incentive anymore to allow discussions that many big tech and media companies consider hate speech. And I have everything to lose.

And as I've stated over and over, the wear-and-tear on the moderators dealing with that mess simply is not worth it either.

You want to discuss politics? There are thousands of sites out there.
RE: RE: It's hard in today's political environment  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/11/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14496922 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14496911 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Not for stuff to get political. It's the world we live in, for better or worse.



That's kind of a cop out. Works in some cases - I would expect even reasonable people to end up in hot water discussing things like abortion.

But dude - a guy asking for recommendations on who can come fix his fence went political in literally 20 minutes. Some people can't help themselves, and those folks need their keyboards revoked permanently.


I didn't see that thread. That is weak.
I've been consistent  
Jay in Toronto : 7/11/2019 7:53 pm : link
ad hominems
RE: I absolutely hate the decision....  
Big Al : 7/11/2019 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14496883 bw in dc said:
Quote:
by the BBI intelligentsia to ban political threads. Itís so un-American to me.

BBI was at its best in the late 90s when it was anything goes. It was very bloody and dirty around here...just the way I liked it. It was very raw and unplugged. You really needed a spine and tough skin.

Alas, the spineless, thin-skinned, overly-sensitive crowd won.

Those are the posters who should be banned.
It was fun back then. I enjoyed some of the things I was called in some of the discussions by some of the more ďcolorfulĒ posters.

When you say ďAlas, the spineless, thin-skinned, overly-sensitive crowd won.Ē You are really talking about society as a whole, not BBI, which needs to go with the flow to survive.
Big Al  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/11/2019 7:57 pm : link
Bingo.
RE: ...  
.McL. : 7/11/2019 8:05 pm : link
In comment 14496942 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
On most internet platforms there is no more free speech.

Free-for-all discussions are no longer allowed without economic punishment.

There is absolutely no incentive anymore to allow discussions that many big tech and media companies consider hate speech. And I have everything to lose.

And as I've stated over and over, the wear-and-tear on the moderators dealing with that mess simply is not worth it either.

You want to discuss politics? There are thousands of sites out there.


Generally speaking, I am not one to talk about politics on here. I come here for football... Politics is in fact a topic I generally avoid unless I know the other party very very well.

I was surprised that the List of Offensive Items survived and didn't result in bans. Admittedly, after it survived for a couple of days, I posted on there, just some statistics from the gov't, I didn't really engage. But given the warning today, it has me wondering...
If someone makes a monetary contribution to the site and you ban them,  
tony stg : 7/11/2019 8:07 pm : link
do you give them a pro rated refund?
it's been this way forever...  
BCD : 7/11/2019 8:15 pm : link
thanks to Eric for sticking to his guns once again....there a million site to debate ...fight...agree with but not here...want to get Banned try Eric....and you're outta here!!!
Tony-  
Bill in TN : 7/11/2019 8:16 pm : link
Good question. Eric?
RE: Tony-  
Jay in Toronto : 7/11/2019 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14496970 Bill in TN said:
Quote:
Good question. Eric?


This is getting silly.

Maybe he should be fined extra for the hassles created for the mods?
I don't miss the political threads at all.  
Mr. Bungle : 7/11/2019 8:24 pm : link
Let's just say this place isn't exactly loaded with Mensa members.

Nobody learns anything. Nobody changes his mind on anything. Most aren't nearly as informed as they fancy themselves to be. Many just regurgitate what they read/heard elsewhere, without even changing the easily detectable buzzwords.

What's there to miss?
How is..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2019 8:31 pm : link
this true??

Quote:
I think part of the problem is that
adamg : 5:17 pm : link : reply
Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.


I posted about things that are deemed offensive in today's society. I talked about Kaepernick. Unless I'm mistaken and he's a political figure, how is discussing his references to a Colonial flag political?

It was a discussion on society's hair-trigger faux outrage to non-offensive symbols.

Now others on that thread made it political, but the thread started itself had no political references. No discussion of political figures or parties.
RE: If someone makes a monetary contribution to the site and you ban them,  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/11/2019 8:43 pm : link
In comment 14496963 tony stg said:
Quote:
do you give them a pro rated refund?


I've always provided refunds upon request.
RE: RE: If someone makes a monetary contribution to the site and you ban them,  
tony stg : 7/11/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14496995 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I've always provided refunds upon request.


Thank you for your reply, Eric.

RE: I absolutely hate the decision....  
crick n NC : 7/11/2019 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14496883 bw in dc said:
Quote:
by the BBI intelligentsia to ban political threads. Itís so un-American to me.

BBI was at its best in the late 90s when it was anything goes. It was very bloody and dirty around here...just the way I liked it. It was very raw and unplugged. You really needed a spine and tough skin.

Alas, the spineless, thin-skinned, overly-sensitive crowd won.

Those are the posters who should be banned.


Discussion is one thing. People foaming at the mouth saying awful things to one another isn't discussion in my view. I don't understand the need for a topic to be bloody.
The problem is you canít talk politics  
dep026 : 7/11/2019 10:06 pm : link
Without getting personal or attacking the other view.

Take the Rapinoe thread. For the most part, I thought it was a great back and forth. My view point was different than UConns and Christians and a few others I canít remmeber. It never got personal and it never got ugly. Just a back and forth that I actually enjoyed because even if I donít agree with the opposite viewpoint, I enjoy learning from it.

But it takes a few posters to make it unbearable and thatís why Eric or another mod deletes than bans.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 7/11/2019 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14496942 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
On most internet platforms there is no more free speech.

Free-for-all discussions are no longer allowed without economic punishment.

There is absolutely no incentive anymore to allow discussions that many big tech and media companies consider hate speech. And I have everything to lose.

And as I've stated over and over, the wear-and-tear on the moderators dealing with that mess simply is not worth it either.

You want to discuss politics? There are thousands of sites out there.


Fair enough. But hereís the problem for those ďbig tech and media companiesĒ - they arenít neutral. Many of them have declared which side of the aisle they roll with. So when they start regulating content, itís abundantly clear - to me - they tend to eliminate content that doesnít fit their view much more often that not...
The radical right and left make  
joeinpa : 7/12/2019 6:34 am : link
Discussing politics an exercise in futility. Keeping it off bbi is fine with me.
Look itís difficult  
Dave on the UWS : 7/12/2019 7:19 am : link
discussing politics with ANYONE these days. On a PUBLIC forum, it becomes like pouring gasoline on a smoldering fire. You canít do it. Thatís why theyíre banned. Civil discourse in this environment isnít possible anymore.
A private 1-1 conversation between adults is still possible. For example, last election cycle, Eric and I had a few Private conversations. We are friends on polar opposite sides of the fence. Because we are adults, we are still friends.
I support his decision to keep it off the site. Sadly itís necessary.
And BW is right, the late 90s WERE more interesting. There was still a measure of civility however.
I personally feel that we should also ban pizza threads  
Bockman : 7/12/2019 7:40 am : link
because some of you truly have awful taste in pizza.
...  
christian : 7/12/2019 7:48 am : link
It's absolutely possible to discuss current events without it being political.

As Dep and Fatman mentioned above, those two threads were about current events around patriotism and speech.

Fatman and I were getting at it, Dep and I were challenging each other. And even with a little heat, those exchanges stayed topical and not political. Hand to my heart I don't know Dep or FMiC's political views, and I guarantee they don't know mine.

There was no reason for them to *have* to get political. It's not impossible for adults to talk about current events without it getting political.

Same as it's possible to inject politics into nearly anything, it's possible not to.
RE: I think part of the problem is that  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 7/12/2019 7:56 am : link
In comment 14496858 adamg said:
Quote:
Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.

And I think the onus is on the thread starter or the person who introduces the political topic (if it's not the thread starter). How can you ban someone for responding to a post that shouldn't have been there in the first place?


These are grown men.

If you run over somebody in your car ahould you not be responsible because they shouldn't have been in the road the first place?
RE: ...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14497121 christian said:
Quote:
It's absolutely possible to discuss current events without it being political.

As Dep and Fatman mentioned above, those two threads were about current events around patriotism and speech.

Fatman and I were getting at it, Dep and I were challenging each other. And even with a little heat, those exchanges stayed topical and not political. Hand to my heart I don't know Dep or FMiC's political views, and I guarantee they don't know mine.

There was no reason for them to *have* to get political. It's not impossible for adults to talk about current events without it getting political.

Same as it's possible to inject politics into nearly anything, it's possible not to.


That's an excellent summation.

we have to stop equating all discussions as being political, even when they don't venture into that territory

I don't particularly care what other people's politics are nor do I care about their religion and things like that.

Hell, I don't think I even align with any political party these days. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I basically follow the Party of FatMan....
If you're using the word "knee"  
Waldo Jeffers : 7/12/2019 8:41 am : link
It better be about an injury.

RE: RE: ...  
Moondawg : 7/12/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14497134 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14497121 christian said:


Quote:


It's absolutely possible to discuss current events without it being political.

As Dep and Fatman mentioned above, those two threads were about current events around patriotism and speech.

Fatman and I were getting at it, Dep and I were challenging each other. And even with a little heat, those exchanges stayed topical and not political. Hand to my heart I don't know Dep or FMiC's political views, and I guarantee they don't know mine.

There was no reason for them to *have* to get political. It's not impossible for adults to talk about current events without it getting political.

Same as it's possible to inject politics into nearly anything, it's possible not to.



That's an excellent summation.

we have to stop equating all discussions as being political, even when they don't venture into that territory

I don't particularly care what other people's politics are nor do I care about their religion and things like that.

Hell, I don't think I even align with any political party these days. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I basically follow the Party of FatMan....


That..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 10:49 am : link
photo is offensive on many levels.

I'm contacting the mods!
RE: RE: ...  
Bill in UT : 7/12/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14497134 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

Hell, I don't think I even align with any political party these days. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.


That might make you a libertarian. Lot's of people take the same stance as you, including me. But on a practical basis, in this country, in these times, it's really an impossible position. The governmental costs of supporting social liberalism is so enormous that it can't co-exist with fiscal conservatism. Would you ever tell your representatives to vote against a program for the children, for women, for the poor or minorities because it's too expensive?
RE: RE: ...  
EricJ : 7/12/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14497134 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

Hell, I don't think I even align with any political party these days. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I basically follow the Party of FatMan....


I think I am right there with you FMiC except when the social/liberal side negatively impacts fiscal responsibility.

Examples..
Gay marriage? Sure, marry your goat if you want.
Free healthcare for all including illegals? No chance in hell.
I also have a libera and conservative view on planned parenthood.  
EricJ : 7/12/2019 11:51 am : link
This would be my plan if I was in position to influence change.

I would fully fund planned parenthood. Will pay for your birth control pills and also your abortion.

You are an adult making an adult decision to have sex, an adult decision whether to use birth control AND a decision as to whether to have the baby if you get pregnant.

So, if you decide NOT to take advantage of the planned parenthood benefits, then you are raising the child on your own without government support. The gravy train will end. Having children will no longer be a money making proposition.
RE: I also have a libera and conservative view on planned parenthood.  
Motley Two : 7/12/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14497331 EricJ said:
Quote:
This would be my plan if I was in position to influence change.

I would fully fund planned parenthood. Will pay for your birth control pills and also your abortion.

You are an adult making an adult decision to have sex, an adult decision whether to use birth control AND a decision as to whether to have the baby if you get pregnant.

So, if you decide NOT to take advantage of the planned parenthood benefits, then you are raising the child on your own without government support. The gravy train will end. Having children will no longer be a money making proposition.



RE: I also have a libera and conservative view on planned parenthood.  
pjcas18 : 7/12/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14497331 EricJ said:
Quote:
This would be my plan if I was in position to influence change.

I would fully fund planned parenthood. Will pay for your birth control pills and also your abortion.

You are an adult making an adult decision to have sex, an adult decision whether to use birth control AND a decision as to whether to have the baby if you get pregnant.

So, if you decide NOT to take advantage of the planned parenthood benefits, then you are raising the child on your own without government support. The gravy train will end. Having children will no longer be a money making proposition.


That is not a libertarian view. I won't comment any further since you are venturing into the exact area Eric asked everyone not to, but I don't think you have a solid grasp of libertarian and conservative.

At least this example is neither a libertarian or conservative view.
People think that having kids is a money making proposition  
Heisenberg : 7/12/2019 12:09 pm : link
probably don't have kids.
RE: People think that having kids is a money making proposition  
Amtoft : 7/12/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14497341 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
probably don't have kids.


Exactly... You can't make money on kids... they are so damn expensive. Even their shotty work free labor is over priced in the end!
RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
adamg : 7/12/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14496860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14496858 adamg said:


Quote:


Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues





Name a single political thread I started.
RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
adamg : 7/12/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14497125 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14496858 adamg said:


Quote:


Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.

And I think the onus is on the thread starter or the person who introduces the political topic (if it's not the thread starter). How can you ban someone for responding to a post that shouldn't have been there in the first place?



These are grown men.

If you run over somebody in your car ahould you not be responsible because they shouldn't have been in the road the first place?


Horrible analogy.
RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14497361 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14496860 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14496858 adamg said:


Quote:


Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues







Name a single political thread I started.


Changing the emphasis to address something never asked is a good tactic. I admire that.
I'd..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 12:38 pm : link
rather he name a political thread I've started since he explicitly calls me out for it.

Not just that I've started political threads, but that I'm too ignorant to realize it!!
RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
HomerJones45 : 7/12/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14497125 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14496858 adamg said:


Quote:


Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.

And I think the onus is on the thread starter or the person who introduces the political topic (if it's not the thread starter). How can you ban someone for responding to a post that shouldn't have been there in the first place?



These are grown men.

If you run over somebody in your car ahould you not be responsible because they shouldn't have been in the road the first place?
Comparative negligence IS a defense so yes, it is possible to defend on the basis that the person hit should not have been there in the first place. On this site, the Mods are the judges and they are hardend and cruel in acknowledging any defense.

And I think joeinpa has it about right.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
adamg : 7/12/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14497379 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14497361 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 14496860 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14496858 adamg said:


Quote:


Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues







Name a single political thread I started.



Changing the emphasis to address something never asked is a good tactic. I admire that.


I won't deny that I have a different POV and to one of you that might be construed as "ideological". But, I've never initiated a political discussion on this site. So, the analogy doesn't hold.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
Greg from LI : 7/12/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14497408 adamg said:
Quote:
I won't deny that I have a different POV and to one of you that might be construed as "ideological". But, I've never initiated a political discussion on this site. So, the analogy doesn't hold.


The Constanza theory - "Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it"

Great, you've never started a thread, you've only injected political opinions into other people's threads. Bravo.
whatever Bill Maher says  
I Love Clams Casino : 7/12/2019 1:11 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
adamg : 7/12/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14497414 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14497408 adamg said:


Quote:


I won't deny that I have a different POV and to one of you that might be construed as "ideological". But, I've never initiated a political discussion on this site. So, the analogy doesn't hold.



The Constanza theory - "Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it"

Great, you've never started a thread, you've only injected political opinions into other people's threads. Bravo.


I injected politics in a thread about a political protest. Ok. Keep on keeping on Greg. That UVA education certainly paid off.
Whatever you say  
Greg from LI : 7/12/2019 1:13 pm : link
Off with you now, go find something to be grieviously offended by. Ain't no one gonna miss you.
Objection..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 1:14 pm : link
to a symbol on a pair of sneakers is a political protest??
RE: Whatever you say  
adamg : 7/12/2019 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14497422 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Off with you now, go find something to be grieviously offended by. Ain't no one gonna miss you.


You're right. I was "grieviously" offended. That's what happened.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/12/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14497329 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14497134 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:



Hell, I don't think I even align with any political party these days. I'm a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I basically follow the Party of FatMan....



I think I am right there with you FMiC except when the social/liberal side negatively impacts fiscal responsibility.

Examples..
Gay marriage? Sure, marry your goat if you want.
Free healthcare for all including illegals? No chance in hell.

If you are a fiscal conservative, you should realize the state should not recognize or oversee a non productive social arrangement like gay marriage. It's a sentimental issue appeal to emotionalism used buy our scum aggrandizing politicians and media.
OK, so we agree then  
Greg from LI : 7/12/2019 1:30 pm : link
Was that so hard?
Making money on kids....  
BamaBlue : 7/12/2019 1:33 pm : link
not a chance. From the financial standpoint, being a parent is like being the CEO of a disfunctional not-for-profit organization.
RE: OK, so we agree then  
adamg : 7/12/2019 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14497438 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Was that so hard?


Lol. Fatman on the other was not offended at all. The entire was not predicated on Fatman's delicate sensibilities.
Well this thread went off the rails  
figgy2989 : 7/12/2019 1:38 pm : link
.
RE: How is..  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14496981 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this true??



Quote:


I think part of the problem is that
adamg : 5:17 pm : link : reply
Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political. True believers don't realize that they're ideologues.



I posted about things that are deemed offensive in today's society. I talked about Kaepernick. Unless I'm mistaken and he's a political figure, how is discussing his references to a Colonial flag political?

It was a discussion on society's hair-trigger faux outrage to non-offensive symbols.

Now others on that thread made it political, but the thread started itself had no political references. No discussion of political figures or parties.

Please don't get me wrong, I thought the thread was interesting and was glad to read it.

That said, Kaepernick has not been a football player for several years. At the same time he is a public figure, and has most certainly taken a public political stances, and represented a specific political ideology. It could easily be argued that at this point he is more a political figure than a football figure.

The "faux-outrage" is an interesting comment in and of itself. Outrage seems to be largely endemic to a particular political ideology. Expressing it as "faux-outrage" seems to be endemic to the opposite ideology. Thus raising the issue of outrage can be argued is raising a political topic, and calling it "faux" can be construed as taking a political stance opposing it.

I will grant that the exercise I just went through, is largely the same exercise that the specific political ideology goes through when they express outrage. I only do it to point out that, while I understand that you and possibly many others do not think that you were being political, those subjects can be a lightening rod for others. Which brings me full circle to the point of this thread. I am still not 100% clear on where the political line is drawn. I am perfectly happy to say that the Master List of Offensive Items thread is OK, but it pushes up against that line. As I said, I found it to be an interesting thread. I did not see the Rapinoe thread...
My point is that..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 1:46 pm : link
Kaepernick is making a social protest - not a political one.

He is not calling for political action - he called for Nike to stop production of the footwear. Just like I wouldn't call wearing pig socks a political protest - but a social protest and a horrendous fashion choice.

There were others on that thread who took the political route. I will rarely get drawn into those discussions.
Farmers Market  
figgy2989 : 7/12/2019 1:46 pm : link
That is where the line is drawn.
McL I think is stumbling on the idea  
adamg : 7/12/2019 1:47 pm : link
that what is deemed "political" is one sided. Which is fine. It's not my website. (If it were up to me, there'd be no off-limits.) I just won't engage in non-sports threads then. Obviously, I'm a shit list for having a different opinion than the deemed non-political ones. That's fine. But, you might want to add that to the rules. Good luck on wording that.
I remember before the ban....  
Tesla : 7/12/2019 1:48 pm : link
reading the political posts of some posters I really liked and realizing what A-holes they were.

So the ban is better, I'd rather be ignorant and enjoy the posts of people who I might otherwise find pretty repugnant. Ignorance is bliss.
What about  
pjcas18 : 7/12/2019 1:49 pm : link
Pho outrage?

Is that political?


That's me when I find out the meat in my pho is tripe.

stupid menus with pictures only.
Faux..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 1:51 pm : link
outrage isn't political nor does it lean to a certain political ideology.

For most purposes, it refers to Social Media Warriors, of which I assume span the spectrum of beliefs.

But for arguments sake, I like pj's take better....
Also, everything is political now because we are....  
Tesla : 7/12/2019 1:55 pm : link
not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.
RE: My point is that..  
BamaBlue : 7/12/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14497467 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Kaepernick is making a social protest - not a political one.

He is not calling for political action - he called for Nike to stop production of the footwear. Just like I wouldn't call wearing pig socks a political protest - but a social protest and a horrendous fashion choice.

There were others on that thread who took the political route. I will rarely get drawn into those discussions.


You're fighting an uphill battle... even Kaepernick doesn't know what he's protesting. Cops, racism, economic balkanization, America... take your pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
EricJ : 7/12/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14497436 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:


If you are a fiscal conservative, you should realize the state should not recognize or oversee a non productive social arrangement like gay marriage. It's a sentimental issue appeal to emotionalism used buy our scum aggrandizing politicians and media.


"Recognizing it" has no fiscal impact. I never said they should oversee anything.

Politics like anything else should be a negotiation where both sides get walk away with something. Unfortunately, that is no longer acceptable. You have to completely win in politics and your opponent is not allowed to also be happy with the end result.

My planned parenthood proposal would appeal to both sides.
RE: Faux..  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14497483 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
outrage isn't political nor does it lean to a certain political ideology.

For most purposes, it refers to Social Media Warriors, of which I assume span the spectrum of beliefs.

But for arguments sake, I like pj's take better....

Look, I get it, I am not arguing one side or the other.

And adamg is exactly right, and I wasn't exactly stumbling onto it, it was my main point, even if I didn't state it succinctly. What is deemed political is likely to be in the eye of the beholder.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14497418 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14497414 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14497408 adamg said:


Quote:


I won't deny that I have a different POV and to one of you that might be construed as "ideological". But, I've never initiated a political discussion on this site. So, the analogy doesn't hold.



The Constanza theory - "Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it"

Great, you've never started a thread, you've only injected political opinions into other people's threads. Bravo.



I injected politics in a thread about a political protest. Ok. Keep on keeping on Greg. That UVA education certainly paid off.


Quote:
Fatman and others don't even realize that what they're posting is political.

Posting in a thread is injecting a pov into the thread. A much less expensive degree than one from UVA would be needed to learn that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14497526 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14497436 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:




If you are a fiscal conservative, you should realize the state should not recognize or oversee a non productive social arrangement like gay marriage. It's a sentimental issue appeal to emotionalism used buy our scum aggrandizing politicians and media.



"Recognizing it" has no fiscal impact. I never said they should oversee anything.

Politics like anything else should be a negotiation where both sides get walk away with something. Unfortunately, that is no longer acceptable. You have to completely win in politics and your opponent is not allowed to also be happy with the end result.

My planned parenthood proposal would appeal to both sides.

I would appreciate no personal political ideologies, or policies in this thread. This is *NOT* a political thread, let's keep it that way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
adamg : 7/12/2019 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14497534 Bill L said:
Quote:

Posting in a thread is injecting a pov into the thread. A much less expensive degree than one from UVA would be needed to learn that.


Bright guy. Obviously, any statement can be construed as a POV. The question is whether it's political or not. Dope.
RE: What about  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14497478 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Pho outrage?

Is that political?


That's me when I find out the meat in my pho is tripe.

stupid menus with pictures only.


you're a philistine. In Asian dishes tripe is delectable.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think part of the problem is that  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14497537 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14497534 Bill L said:


Quote:



Posting in a thread is injecting a pov into the thread. A much less expensive degree than one from UVA would be needed to learn that.



Bright guy. Obviously, any statement can be construed as a POV. The question is whether it's political or not. Dope.


You have injected your political pov into threads. You seem to simultaneously not recognize those posts as being political (and they are) while at the same time trying to believe that only posting within a conversation but not starting the conversation immunizes you from being political (it doesn't).
RE: RE: What about  
pjcas18 : 7/12/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14497540 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14497478 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Pho outrage?

Is that political?


That's me when I find out the meat in my pho is tripe.

stupid menus with pictures only.



you're a philistine. In Asian dishes tripe is delectable.


It is good, but I couldn't think of a meat I didn't like. lol. scrapple?
RE: Also, everything is political now because we are....  
Klaatu : 7/12/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14497493 Tesla said:
Quote:
not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.


That's a crock. We've been fighting with one another since before we were even a country. The game hasn't changed, only the players and the equipment have.
RE: RE: Faux..  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14497532 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14497483 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


outrage isn't political nor does it lean to a certain political ideology.

For most purposes, it refers to Social Media Warriors, of which I assume span the spectrum of beliefs.

But for arguments sake, I like pj's take better....


Look, I get it, I am not arguing one side or the other.

And adamg is exactly right, and I wasn't exactly stumbling onto it, it was my main point, even if I didn't state it succinctly. What is deemed political is likely to be in the eye of the beholder.


And there are plenty who believe Kaepernick is a political figure... Here is just one of 100s of articles you can find if you google "kaepernick politics".

https://theundefeated.com/features/how-colin-kaepernick-became-a-cause-for-activists-civil-rights-groups/

Frankly, saying that he is making just a "social protest", is hiding your head in the sand. There is most definitely a political movement around him.
RE: RE: RE: What about  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14497548 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14497540 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14497478 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Pho outrage?

Is that political?


That's me when I find out the meat in my pho is tripe.

stupid menus with pictures only.



you're a philistine. In Asian dishes tripe is delectable.



It is good, but I couldn't think of a meat I didn't like. lol. scrapple?


I like scrapple. How about liver.

My favorite chinese noodle soup is chock full of stewed beef tendons. It's a collagenny masterpiece. But tripe is also good in soup too. And there's a spicy tripe they always serve in dim sum houses that is great.
It's like..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2019 2:37 pm : link
you just want to argue for the fuck of it:

Quote:
And there are plenty who believe Kaepernick is a political figure... Here is just one of 100s of articles you can find if you google "kaepernick politics".


And if you google "Kaepernick dickhead", you'll get 100's of articles and some really interesting pictures.

It doesn't really matter if people "believe" he's a political figure. That alone doesn't make him one. He protests shit - sometimes stuff he doesn't even himself know what the fuck it is. Police. Treatment of minorities. Symbols. National Anthems. The game of football.

He is not a political figure. Are you really insinuating that because articles exist on the Internet that he is? You can find an article about almost anything!
RE: RE: Also, everything is political now because we are....  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14497550 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14497493 Tesla said:


Quote:


not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.



That's a crock. We've been fighting with one another since before we were even a country. The game hasn't changed, only the players and the equipment have.

Why is what Tesla said a crock... And you are right we have been fighting since before we were a country. I don't see the 2 points as mutually exclusive. In fact, many of the central themes of the fight, have been roughly the same for over 250 years.
For the record, I like both tripe and liver.  
Klaatu : 7/12/2019 2:39 pm : link
Never had scrapple, though.
OT  
crick n NC : 7/12/2019 2:40 pm : link
Does anyone know why I keep getting penal booster surgery ads on this site?!

😳
RE: OT  
pjcas18 : 7/12/2019 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14497580 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Does anyone know why I keep getting penal booster surgery ads on this site?!

😳


It's called machine learning. google can see in your pants.
RE: It's like..  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14497576 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you just want to argue for the fuck of it:



Quote:


And there are plenty who believe Kaepernick is a political figure... Here is just one of 100s of articles you can find if you google "kaepernick politics".



And if you google "Kaepernick dickhead", you'll get 100's of articles and some really interesting pictures.

It doesn't really matter if people "believe" he's a political figure. That alone doesn't make him one. He protests shit - sometimes stuff he doesn't even himself know what the fuck it is. Police. Treatment of minorities. Symbols. National Anthems. The game of football.

He is not a political figure. Are you really insinuating that because articles exist on the Internet that he is? You can find an article about almost anything!

As usual, you are so wrapped up in your personal point of view that you completely missed the point. In this thread, I could not care less about what your personal opinion of Kaepernick is. Nor do I particularly care about the opinion of the article I posted. The point is, and you have perfectly illustrated it, is that there are opposing views of this.

Quote:
It doesn't really matter if people "believe" he's a political figure.


The fact that some, in fact a large number of people, do believe he is a political figure gets to the very heart of this thread. As I said, what is political vs. apolitical is in the eye of the beholder.

And yes I am playing Devil's Advocate here. I am not expressing a particular political opinion, nor an opinion of Kaepernick. I am not arguing with your specific POV of him.

The point I am driving at is this:

Does a thread about a protest started by a figure such as Kaepernick, who some view as political and others couldn't give 2 shits about him and so they don't view him as political, count as a political thread or not. As I said, I am perfectly happy to say that it doesn't. I am just looking for clarity.

Though I loathe the way you behave on this site, this thread is not an attack on you or your POV of Kaepernick.
If you can answer the question,  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 3:00 pm : link
and you have
Quote:
As I said, what is political vs. apolitical is in the eye of the beholder.


It makes me wonder the point of asking it in the first place.
RE: If you can answer the question,  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14497611 Bill L said:
Quote:
and you have

Quote:


As I said, what is political vs. apolitical is in the eye of the beholder.



It makes me wonder the point of asking it in the first place.

Well if people are going to get banned, and there is a gray area, I think its important to explore it.

Perhaps, the gray area threads are simply monitored to make sure they don't get out of control. If they do, then they are deleted and the out of control individuals are warned but not banned. I don't have the answers, but I felt it was worth exploring.
But if political is in the eye of the beholder  
Bill L : 7/12/2019 3:17 pm : link
then that's always grey, it's always subjective and decisions are always due to whimsy. I think all of that is stuff you already know.
Don't have the time or energy to be engaged in these battles  
NoGainDayne : 7/12/2019 3:22 pm : link
of late but keep fighting the good fight McL.

Maybe someday we will live in the Utopian world of a BBI with clear rules applied equally (which in the efforts of not having this post deleted I will say is incredibly hard to do) and a Giants management structure not intent on being behind the times.

RE: But if political is in the eye of the beholder  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14497629 Bill L said:
Quote:
then that's always grey, it's always subjective and decisions are always due to whimsy. I think all of that is stuff you already know.

Yes, which is why I was surprised the thread I have been discussing survived.

Either the rule is very clear and says anything even remotely political is off limits, which is what I thought it was. Or we have some gray area where slightly different rules apply. I am happy with either. I just think it should be clear, for the benefit of everybody.
RE: RE: RE: Also, everything is political now because we are....  
Klaatu : 7/12/2019 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14497578 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14497550 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14497493 Tesla said:


Quote:


not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.



That's a crock. We've been fighting with one another since before we were even a country. The game hasn't changed, only the players and the equipment have.


Why is what Tesla said a crock... And you are right we have been fighting since before we were a country. I don't see the 2 points as mutually exclusive. In fact, many of the central themes of the fight, have been roughly the same for over 250 years.


Because the key word in his first sentence is "now," as if we were all in agreement about everything until recently, which is simply not true. There have always been regional and cultural variations among our people that have been reflected in our politics. About 150 years ago, one was so great it almost tore us completely apart. Some people say we're on the verge of a second Civil War. I say, man, we're not even close.

What Tesla sees as things that divide us, I see as things that have always been there in one form or another, but are largely irrelevant. Where we may live, what food we may enjoy, what books we read, what TV shows and movies we watch, or what values we hold dear don't define us as a nation. What does is the adherence to the rule of law, to the precepts set forth in our founding document, the Declaration of Independence, and our governing document, the Constitution. That's what keeps this country together.

Tesla used a couple in a bad marriage as an analogy. Well, anyone who's been married knows that it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Every marriage has it's ups and downs, it's good times and bad times. America has certainly had it's share of both. But it's not staying together out of spite. It might be staying together "for the sake of the children," but I prefer to think that it's staying together because it believes that in the final analysis it's simply better off that way. I reject any notion that this country is broken beyond repair.

I also reject any notion that the problems we face today are any more insurmountable than those we've faced in the past. Sure, sometimes it might seem that way, but even a cursory examination of our history would dispel that notion. As I said above, we're still playing the same game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
EricJ : 7/12/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14497535 .McL. said:
Quote:


I would appreciate no personal political ideologies, or policies in this thread. This is *NOT* a political thread, let's keep it that way.


Go find a safe space...
"Taxation without representation"  
Cool Down : 7/12/2019 4:28 pm : link
started a revolution that resulted in the formation of the
greatest nation in history.
In BBI's past we have had "Banning without explanation".
Is this really a thing of the past?
Or is the Pronunciamento considered to be a pre-explanation
of banning?
By the way, is the use of the old nickname "Lefty" a
bannable offense?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Also, everything is political now because we are....  
.McL. : 7/12/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14497670 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14497578 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 14497550 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14497493 Tesla said:


Quote:


not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.



That's a crock. We've been fighting with one another since before we were even a country. The game hasn't changed, only the players and the equipment have.


Why is what Tesla said a crock... And you are right we have been fighting since before we were a country. I don't see the 2 points as mutually exclusive. In fact, many of the central themes of the fight, have been roughly the same for over 250 years.



Because the key word in his first sentence is "now," as if we were all in agreement about everything until recently, which is simply not true. There have always been regional and cultural variations among our people that have been reflected in our politics. About 150 years ago, one was so great it almost tore us completely apart. Some people say we're on the verge of a second Civil War. I say, man, we're not even close.

What Tesla sees as things that divide us, I see as things that have always been there in one form or another, but are largely irrelevant. Where we may live, what food we may enjoy, what books we read, what TV shows and movies we watch, or what values we hold dear don't define us as a nation. What does is the adherence to the rule of law, to the precepts set forth in our founding document, the Declaration of Independence, and our governing document, the Constitution. That's what keeps this country together.

Tesla used a couple in a bad marriage as an analogy. Well, anyone who's been married knows that it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Every marriage has it's ups and downs, it's good times and bad times. America has certainly had it's share of both. But it's not staying together out of spite. It might be staying together "for the sake of the children," but I prefer to think that it's staying together because it believes that in the final analysis it's simply better off that way. I reject any notion that this country is broken beyond repair.

I also reject any notion that the problems we face today are any more insurmountable than those we've faced in the past. Sure, sometimes it might seem that way, but even a cursory examination of our history would dispel that notion. As I said above, we're still playing the same game.


Excellent points.

I agree with you that many of the things that Tesla mentioned are superficial and don't matter.

Unfortunately, I think that when the 2 sides read the declaration of independence and the constitution it seems that they come away with very different POVs, and very different values. To keep with the bad marriage analogy, call it irreconcilable differences. Given enough time, perhaps a generation or 2, those difference can probably be resolved. I don't think the current generation can resolve it. Unfortunately, the problems we have today are more and more global in nature, many of them existential, and the pace of everything is speeding up. I'm not so sure we have the luxury of time to resolve our differences anymore. Certainly dividing us into 2 separate nations is not the answer. But it certainly feels like a bad marriage.
RE: Also, everything is political now because we are....  
Bill in UT : 7/12/2019 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14497493 Tesla said:
Quote:
not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.


the last time we went the divorce route 750,000 people died.
RE: For the record, I like both tripe and liver.  
Bill in UT : 7/12/2019 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14497579 Klaatu said:

You are hereby banned from the cooking threads
RE: OT  
Bill in UT : 7/12/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14497580 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Does anyone know why I keep getting penal booster surgery ads on this site?!

😳


because the word has gotten out about you?
.  
crick n NC : 7/12/2019 7:12 pm : link
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2019 11:52 am : link
even on a thread like this, Captain Analytics can't help but throw a line of meaningless drivel our way:

Quote:
Maybe someday we will live in the Utopian world of a BBI with clear rules applied equally (which in the efforts of not having this post deleted I will say is incredibly hard to do) and a Giants management structure not intent on being behind the times.


What the fuck does the Giants management structure have to do here?

RE:  
Klaatu : 7/13/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14497721 .McL. said:
Quote:

Excellent points.

I agree with you that many of the things that Tesla mentioned are superficial and don't matter.

Unfortunately, I think that when the 2 sides read the declaration of independence and the constitution it seems that they come away with very different POVs, and very different values. To keep with the bad marriage analogy, call it irreconcilable differences. Given enough time, perhaps a generation or 2, those difference can probably be resolved. I don't think the current generation can resolve it. Unfortunately, the problems we have today are more and more global in nature, many of them existential, and the pace of everything is speeding up. I'm not so sure we have the luxury of time to resolve our differences anymore. Certainly dividing us into 2 separate nations is not the answer. But it certainly feels like a bad marriage.


Those different POV's and values have been around for 100+ years, ever since the birth of the modern Progressive movement and the idea of a "living" Constitution (championed most notably by Woodrow Wilson). Before that, the Populist movement pitted farmers against "Eastern moneyed interests," and for a time seemed to wield considerable political power, but fizzled out rather quickly for a variety of reasons.

The struggle was just as real then as it is now, and we've always had groups like the Mugwumps, switching party allegiance for one reason or another. Are those Obama voters who might have supported Bernie Sanders, but voted for Trump instead of Hillary Clinton any different than the Republicans who refused to support James G. Blaine and voted for Grover Cleveland instead? I really don't think so.

Throughout our history, many of our problems have been global in nature. Foreign intervention has been hotly debated for more than a century, as one "crisis" after another - manufactured or otherwise - has reared its ugly head. But the next time you hear any talking head on any network beating the war drums, think about the artist Frederic Remington being sent to Cuba by William Randolph Hearst prior to the Spanish-American War. Remington cabled Hearst telling him that all was quiet there, and that "there will be no war." Hearst cabled back, "You furnish the pictures. I'll furnish the war." Some things never change.

I think a faster pace in terms of the flow of information is a net positive, even though the information can be misused or perverted at times. I like the way the "town square" has expanded. I like the immediacy. I like the new breed of "citizen journalists" inhabiting all points on the political spectrum. Do biases exist? Of course. They always have. But the rise of major networks and the consolidation of local and regional newspapers under increasingly large corporate umbrellas tended to enforce conformity, especially the conformity of ideas. The Internet changed all that. September 2004 was a seminal moment. A blogger took on CBS and Dan Rather and won.

Regarding the luxury of time. We still have it, in my view. The perception may be that it's running out, but I think that's fueled by a false sense of urgency promoted by a small, but very vocal cadre of demagogues who prefer sloganeering to sober debate. The Founders purposely set up a system that moved slowly, that diffused power, that encouraged debate and pushed for consensus. It isn't perfect, but it's still "more perfect" than anything that came before or has come since, and it certainly shouldn't be dismissed in the name of expediency.

Finally, other than nuclear annihilation, I think the only real existential thread we face is straying too far from the path laid out by the Founders. By that I mean we're in danger of having the Federal Republic they created morph into a judicial oligarchy. I think that's been trending for the past 40+ years or so, and I find it very worrisome. The consolidation of power by what was supposed to be the weakest branch of government, the one least accountable to the people, should give everyone pause. Unchecked, it may not lead to "divorce," but it will most likely bring about an end to whatever harmony still exists among all members of the family.
Klaatu  
Sneakers O'toole : 7/13/2019 3:05 pm : link
Excellent post
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Bill2 : 7/13/2019 3:52 pm : link
Great post Dr.K

I would add as existential threats the very poorly controlled global and US financial system, the lower and lower efficacy of the traditional levers to pull out of a financial crisis ( other than print which is socially destabilizing) and income inequality when the next downturn comes ( which is socially destabilizing).

To me the judicial swings occur every 30 to 40 years since the beginning so I don't see that one as destabilizing as the ones above.

This period is like the others in our history when there was not a significant multi decade source of real growth from productivity gains from an energy, transport, or communication or CS source.

( canals linking water sources in the 1820's, railroads from 1830 to 1880, steam/coal to gas, electrical miniturization, etc.
RE: RE: Also, everything is political now because we are....  
Percy : 7/14/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14497550 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14497493 Tesla said:


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not really one country any more....we are two divided nations being forced to live together. What the hell does some professional in NYC have in common with someone who lives in rural Mississippi? Forget belonging to the same political party, we don't read the same news, watch the same shows, enjoy the same actives or share any common values. The NYC person has far more in common with someone who lives in London than Alabama.

America is basically like a couple in a bad marriage who refuses to get divorced because neither wants to give the house to the other one.



That's a crock. We've been fighting with one another since before we were even a country. The game hasn't changed, only the players and the equipment have.


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