that Russ and harden signed off on this. And im sure they were asked. On paper that looks like one of the worst combos possible. I mean Russ is def better then CP3 but its so hard to see them coexist. The biggest advantage this will give them is that they can always have one of them on the court i guess. Harden isnt going to go back to a shooter only role and if Russ doesnt have the ball in his hands im not sure how useful he is. That said i cant wait to see this.
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
that Russ and harden signed off on this. And im sure they were asked. On paper that looks like one of the worst combos possible. I mean Russ is def better then CP3 but its so hard to see them coexist. The biggest advantage this will give them is that they can always have one of them on the court i guess. Harden isnt going to go back to a shooter only role and if Russ doesnt have the ball in his hands im not sure how useful he is. That said i cant wait to see this.
according to woj houston was westbrooks preferred destination
I don’t know how it’s possible with that salary, but I feel like he’s going to be a Laker at some point.
Speaking of Lakers, first he got screwed by Stern who blocked his move to the Lakeshow which would have been his best chance at a championship. Now Houston screws him by sending him to the no-name Thunder! I'm not a fan of his by any stretch, but man this sucks for him.
The NBA has turned into AAU. Sure wish they would just condense the league to 10 teams and be done with it. It is only getting worse, now you have teams accommodating this farce with OKC sending Russ to his preferred destination. The others are the local high schools that develop the talent to stardom that are then plucked away to the AAU teams.
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
A lot of shooting? Who? And how is he going to pass the ball when with Harden hogging it?
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
A lot of shooting? Who? And how is he going to pass the ball when with Harden hogging it?
Harden and Gordon are great shooters. And Tucker is good. Combine that with a rim runner like capela or if they go small with another shooter, that will be good floor space- probably the most Westbrook has ever had.
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
Yes and yes. The west is nasty. There was a spell where the east was catching up it seemed. Not anymore. We’re back to western dominance again.
Both are career 36% from the arc in their careers, which is pretty average. Gordon shot 40% from the field last year. Plus many of Hardens threes came off the dribble.
they've got a million picks and moved on from a team that hit the ceiling anyway. They will suck and while they suck they will pay CP3, no big deal. Next move will probably be adams for some more picks.
got good value. They had a player everyone knew didn't want to stay with them. That reduces return in any league, but they still got a lot back from Houston.
I think it could work as Harden continued to play great with CP3 sharing the rock and this is the best spacing Russ will have in years.
Imo this is a 2yr Harden window that Morey sees and if it fails we will just trade Harden for the picks we just gave up.
CP3 being president of the players union forced him to take the most money possible which hurt him on the court.
Russ being a better bet to be healthy is the key here imo. I like the balls on Morey in the go big sense. Still think the LA teams and possibly Utah are better, not to mention GS with a healthy Klay. But this gives them a better chance to be contenders in the playoffs where CP3 is typically broken down by.
I actually like Russ on the Rockets and think he and Harden can work, but to trade essentially 3 first round picks for the right to pay Westbrook an insane amount of money in 3 years is crazy.
I would've given the Thunder 2 swaps or 1 (heavily protected) first round pick at the most.
Harden hasn't always played the way he has with MDA. If he insists on doing the same shit again, then yes, it's an awful mix. If Russ insists on hoisting up threes regardless of whether he's making them (which might happen with MDA), then yes, it's an awful mix. Maybe I have too much confidence that these guys will look in the mirror and be willing to change/sacrifice.
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
They couldn't play together in Oklahoma, which is why Harden moved on then, so now they can play nice-nice, I doubt it, not enough basketballs to go around.
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
They couldn't play together in Oklahoma, which is why Harden moved on then, so now they can play nice-nice, I doubt it, not enough basketballs to go around.
Nothing you said is true. Harden and Westbrook have been friends since they were 10 growing up in Los Angeles. They've wanted this reunion for years and started talking about getting together once OKC moved Paul George.
Harden didn't leave OKC. He was traded for Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb because OKC blew their cap money on a deal for Kendrick Perkins. Harden wasn't close to what he is today and OKC thought they were just securing a bench loss and adding more important to them at the time, toughness with Perkins
but there was a stat that over the last 3 years or whatever that harden and russ rank 1 and 2 in assists. For two guys who are seen as selfish ball hogs i still find that impressive.
and who knows what HOU looks like in 2026. And saving that year on the contract is kinda big.
And i know people hate the idea the the player run the league and all that, but OKC also did right by a guy who has been the heart and face of their team for a decade. Personally i dont have any issue with that.
And i know people hate the idea the the player run the league and all that, but OKC also did right by a guy who has been the heart and face of their team for a decade. Personally i dont have any issue with that.
Ya think? I mean he forced Kevin Durant out. Paul George wanted out. I get that the fans may have loved him but long term that team should have won 3-4 championships and maybe outside of not giving Harden the max.... I think Westbrook was one of the main reasons why they crumbled.
George never wanted to be there in the first place and "not signing Harden" is kind of a big deal. Also im not going to say that Russ/KD break up was all on Russ.
Esp now w/ KD first leaving OKC, then an even better situation in GSW, now apparently having a hissy fit over what was traded for him (ignoring the max contract post achilles)
I would have taken the risk on him. But I'm not sure he would have lasted in NYC if he's really this soft, and I was concerned since the leaving GSW rumors for 'not enough love.' How much better a team can you ask for, unless it's all about you? Considering this was always the rumor re: his legacy, he sure gets a lot of leeway by fans & media while Russ is a constant target
And if he stayed & Russ left, how much different would OKC's team success be even tho KD is by far the better player? They still would have needed another star...
RE: i know its due to usage and ball in their hands and blah blah.... Â
but there was a stat that over the last 3 years or whatever that harden and russ rank 1 and 2 in assists. For two guys who are seen as selfish ball hogs i still find that impressive.
Exactly right... THEY get the assist or THEY score. You have to hog the ball to do that. Still though averaging a triple double for like 2 or 3 seasons straight is pretty damn impressive!
RE: i know its due to usage and ball in their hands and blah blah.... Â
but there was a stat that over the last 3 years or whatever that harden and russ rank 1 and 2 in assists. For two guys who are seen as selfish ball hogs i still find that impressive.
The only reason they pass the ball is because they didnt have a shot - and sometimes they would still shoot it. If you have the ball ALL the time, hold the ball ALL the time, dribble the ball ALL the time.... the shot clock runs down and your forced to shoot it or pass it. Not a lot of continuity running an offense with those two.
And lets not forget, neither player plays defense worth a lick, so they cherry pick their reboounds and off they go!!! Houston's defense is going to be deplorable for stretches this year.
Ya think? I mean he forced Kevin Durant out. Paul George wanted out. I get that the fans may have loved him but long term that team should have won 3-4 championships and maybe outside of not giving Harden the max.... I think Westbrook was one of the main reasons why they crumbled.
Crazy thing is that they probably could have gotten Harden resigned for less than max. I don't think anyone anticipated him becoming anywhere near the player he has.
I'm not sure how much I'd put on Russ regarding KD and PG leaving. Given the option of living in SF v. OKC, I'm making the same decision KD did every time, and PG actually resigned in OKC. But your larger point is spot on, I'm not sure you can win a title with Russ as one of your primary options. I guess we'll find out!
Saw a stat on Twitter that Harden and Russ were 1 and 2 in time of Â
possession at something like 9 and 8 seconds each. Clearly, that's not gonna work. Good luck to D'Antoni, I guess.
Harden and Westbrook will make it work. They've been friends since 10 were supposed to goto UCLA together but Arizona came out of nowhere and woo'd Harden away. Two guys as talented as this will figure it out and knock D'Antoni all you want but the guy is an offensive mastermind
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
They couldn't play together in Oklahoma, which is why Harden moved on then, so now they can play nice-nice, I doubt it, not enough basketballs to go around.
I was thinking the same thing .... but with the social media age they hear they talk AND Melo not getting any love they are more than likely re-thinking some things ....
RE: RE: Saw a stat on Twitter that Harden and Russ were 1 and 2 in time of Â
In comment 14497316 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
possession at something like 9 and 8 seconds each. Clearly, that's not gonna work. Good luck to D'Antoni, I guess.
Harden and Westbrook will make it work. They've been friends since 10 were supposed to goto UCLA together but Arizona came out of nowhere and woo'd Harden away. Two guys as talented as this will figure it out and knock D'Antoni all you want but the guy is an offensive mastermind
For my part, I'd not agree with this because so what if they were buds in HS? Games & personalities certainly have changed even if they are close today. And 'working together' is a different beast, sports or not (which is the issue here)
Also MDA, agreed fantastic O strategist. But HC? With the right pieces (Nash, Amare, Harden) sure a lot of things 'work.' Plus SSOL came at the perfect time in terms of NBA trends (90s physical, halfcourt era). But ignoring D? That's not good HC'ing. IMO it's funny Gentry comes in and coaches D, PHX finally beat SA in the playoffs fwiw...iirc 0-4 til then
D isn't about being elite as a team, but getting stops when needed. Even with solid individual defenders, HOU had too many D liabilities from key guys. Won't get 4th qtr stops vs playoff teams even if you're an annual top 5 'contender.' I don't see how that changes now even if the O works great
and the regular season. Regular season you absolutely don't have to play defense, but do in the playoffs. A team that hasn't played any d all year is going to have a hard time flipping that switch, especially when Harden is your best player.
RE: ChaChing.....the issue is the difference between playoff ball Â
and the regular season. Regular season you absolutely don't have to play defense, but do in the playoffs. A team that hasn't played any d all year is going to have a hard time flipping that switch, especially when Harden is your best player.
The West is completely loaded.
according to woj houston was westbrooks preferred destination
Speaking of Lakers, first he got screwed by Stern who blocked his move to the Lakeshow which would have been his best chance at a championship. Now Houston screws him by sending him to the no-name Thunder! I'm not a fan of his by any stretch, but man this sucks for him.
At least he's still getting long money.
The West is completely loaded.
A lot of shooting? Who? And how is he going to pass the ball when with Harden hogging it?
Quote:
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
A lot of shooting? Who? And how is he going to pass the ball when with Harden hogging it?
Harden and Gordon are great shooters. And Tucker is good. Combine that with a rim runner like capela or if they go small with another shooter, that will be good floor space- probably the most Westbrook has ever had.
The West is completely loaded.
Yes and yes. The west is nasty. There was a spell where the east was catching up it seemed. Not anymore. We’re back to western dominance again.
Harden and Gordon are great shooters.
Both are career 36% from the arc in their careers, which is pretty average. Gordon shot 40% from the field last year. Plus many of Hardens threes came off the dribble.
They played together before in OKC didn't they?
Though that was years ago and now both want the ball in their hands.
Imo this is a 2yr Harden window that Morey sees and if it fails we will just trade Harden for the picks we just gave up.
CP3 being president of the players union forced him to take the most money possible which hurt him on the court.
Russ being a better bet to be healthy is the key here imo. I like the balls on Morey in the go big sense. Still think the LA teams and possibly Utah are better, not to mention GS with a healthy Klay. But this gives them a better chance to be contenders in the playoffs where CP3 is typically broken down by.
I would've given the Thunder 2 swaps or 1 (heavily protected) first round pick at the most.
Harden hasn't always played the way he has with MDA. If he insists on doing the same shit again, then yes, it's an awful mix. If Russ insists on hoisting up threes regardless of whether he's making them (which might happen with MDA), then yes, it's an awful mix. Maybe I have too much confidence that these guys will look in the mirror and be willing to change/sacrifice.
The West is completely loaded.
They couldn't play together in Oklahoma, which is why Harden moved on then, so now they can play nice-nice, I doubt it, not enough basketballs to go around.
No he isn’t. He’s signed through 2023. His deal is enormous.
Quote:
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
They couldn't play together in Oklahoma, which is why Harden moved on then, so now they can play nice-nice, I doubt it, not enough basketballs to go around.
Nothing you said is true. Harden and Westbrook have been friends since they were 10 growing up in Los Angeles. They've wanted this reunion for years and started talking about getting together once OKC moved Paul George.
Harden didn't leave OKC. He was traded for Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb because OKC blew their cap money on a deal for Kendrick Perkins. Harden wasn't close to what he is today and OKC thought they were just securing a bench loss and adding more important to them at the time, toughness with Perkins
In Houston 1 of them is going to have to take a step back..
And i know people hate the idea the the player run the league and all that, but OKC also did right by a guy who has been the heart and face of their team for a decade. Personally i dont have any issue with that.
And i know people hate the idea the the player run the league and all that, but OKC also did right by a guy who has been the heart and face of their team for a decade. Personally i dont have any issue with that.
Ya think? I mean he forced Kevin Durant out. Paul George wanted out. I get that the fans may have loved him but long term that team should have won 3-4 championships and maybe outside of not giving Harden the max.... I think Westbrook was one of the main reasons why they crumbled.
I would have taken the risk on him. But I'm not sure he would have lasted in NYC if he's really this soft, and I was concerned since the leaving GSW rumors for 'not enough love.' How much better a team can you ask for, unless it's all about you? Considering this was always the rumor re: his legacy, he sure gets a lot of leeway by fans & media while Russ is a constant target
And if he stayed & Russ left, how much different would OKC's team success be even tho KD is by far the better player? They still would have needed another star...
Exactly right... THEY get the assist or THEY score. You have to hog the ball to do that. Still though averaging a triple double for like 2 or 3 seasons straight is pretty damn impressive!
The only reason they pass the ball is because they didnt have a shot - and sometimes they would still shoot it. If you have the ball ALL the time, hold the ball ALL the time, dribble the ball ALL the time.... the shot clock runs down and your forced to shoot it or pass it. Not a lot of continuity running an offense with those two.
And lets not forget, neither player plays defense worth a lick, so they cherry pick their reboounds and off they go!!! Houston's defense is going to be deplorable for stretches this year.
Ya think? I mean he forced Kevin Durant out. Paul George wanted out. I get that the fans may have loved him but long term that team should have won 3-4 championships and maybe outside of not giving Harden the max.... I think Westbrook was one of the main reasons why they crumbled.
Crazy thing is that they probably could have gotten Harden resigned for less than max. I don't think anyone anticipated him becoming anywhere near the player he has.
I'm not sure how much I'd put on Russ regarding KD and PG leaving. Given the option of living in SF v. OKC, I'm making the same decision KD did every time, and PG actually resigned in OKC. But your larger point is spot on, I'm not sure you can win a title with Russ as one of your primary options. I guess we'll find out!
Our draft picks to offer should be more appealing than Houston's. We could have thrown in 1 Aaron Gordon, Mo Bamba, Fultz, Fournier...
Harden and Westbrook will make it work. They've been friends since 10 were supposed to goto UCLA together but Arizona came out of nowhere and woo'd Harden away. Two guys as talented as this will figure it out and knock D'Antoni all you want but the guy is an offensive mastermind
Quote:
For Houston. Team needed a shakeup and is now significantly improved. That’s a lot of shooting around Westbrook-he’s going to excel. Him and Harden also wanted this and are good friends. OKC sent him to his preferred spot.
The West is completely loaded.
They couldn't play together in Oklahoma, which is why Harden moved on then, so now they can play nice-nice, I doubt it, not enough basketballs to go around.
I was thinking the same thing .... but with the social media age they hear they talk AND Melo not getting any love they are more than likely re-thinking some things ....
Quote:
possession at something like 9 and 8 seconds each. Clearly, that's not gonna work. Good luck to D'Antoni, I guess.
Harden and Westbrook will make it work. They've been friends since 10 were supposed to goto UCLA together but Arizona came out of nowhere and woo'd Harden away. Two guys as talented as this will figure it out and knock D'Antoni all you want but the guy is an offensive mastermind
For my part, I'd not agree with this because so what if they were buds in HS? Games & personalities certainly have changed even if they are close today. And 'working together' is a different beast, sports or not (which is the issue here)
Also MDA, agreed fantastic O strategist. But HC? With the right pieces (Nash, Amare, Harden) sure a lot of things 'work.' Plus SSOL came at the perfect time in terms of NBA trends (90s physical, halfcourt era). But ignoring D? That's not good HC'ing. IMO it's funny Gentry comes in and coaches D, PHX finally beat SA in the playoffs fwiw...iirc 0-4 til then
D isn't about being elite as a team, but getting stops when needed. Even with solid individual defenders, HOU had too many D liabilities from key guys. Won't get 4th qtr stops vs playoff teams even if you're an annual top 5 'contender.' I don't see how that changes now even if the O works great
Much more eloquently put! But exactly