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NFT: Steal 1B?

Matt M. : 7/14/2019 8:10 am
Lost in the conversation about robot umpires being tested in the Atlantic League (minor league baseball), are some other changes. In particular, they are testing out a new rule where a batter can steal 1B (yes you read that correctly) on any pitched ball not caught on the fly cleanly. For the first time in professional baseball (supposedly - I wouldn't doubt if a similar rule existed in the early years of baseball). Of all the proposed rule changes, I think this is, by far, the worst and hope it never even gets considered in MLB.
Steal 1B - ( New Window )
With everybody  
Gman11 : 7/14/2019 8:33 am : link
swinging for the fences maybe they're trying to come up with a way to make the first base coach feel useful.
Holy Crap!  
Klaatu : 7/14/2019 8:44 am : link
I thought this was a joke when I first heard about it, like the Golden Home Run Baseball. I can't believe this is real.
Weird rule  
Eli Wilson : 7/14/2019 9:11 am : link
The article says it goes on the record as a fielder's choice. Why not just an error on the C or P, depending on whether it's a wild pitch or passed ball. I don't see how the fielder made a choice there.
^^^  
Tuckrule : 7/14/2019 9:31 am : link
Runners on base you may hold the ball and not attempt the throw? But yea I agree it should be an error on someone. Either a passed ball or wild pitch
RE: Weird rule  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/14/2019 9:44 am : link
In comment 14498368 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
The article says it goes on the record as a fielder's choice. Why not just an error on the C or P, depending on whether it's a wild pitch or passed ball. I don't see how the fielder made a choice there.

Wild pitches and passed balls are not considered errors, so it would be inconsistent to score them as errors in this situation.

That said, fielders choice seems wrong. I’m almost positive a runner advancing on a dropped third strike is not scored a FC. it’s just scored as a K-WP or K-PB.
RE: RE: Weird rule  
robbieballs2003 : 7/14/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14498375 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14498368 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


The article says it goes on the record as a fielder's choice. Why not just an error on the C or P, depending on whether it's a wild pitch or passed ball. I don't see how the fielder made a choice there.


Wild pitches and passed balls are not considered errors, so it would be inconsistent to score them as errors in this situation.

That said, fielders choice seems wrong. I’m almost positive a runner advancing on a dropped third strike is not scored a FC. it’s just scored as a K-WP or K-PB.


Correct but if a WP or PB leads to a runner getting on base then it should be made an error to adjust to the new rule.

Either way, this is just dumb.
it's also not 'stealing' first base -  
Del Shofner : 7/14/2019 10:29 am : link
it's not like a stolen base at all, it's just extending the dropped third strike rule to the entire at bat.
RE: RE: RE: Weird rule  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/14/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14498385 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:

Correct but if a WP or PB leads to a runner getting on base then it should be made an error to adjust to the new rule.

Either way, this is just dumb.

When a batter reaches first on a dropped third strike now irs not scored an error. Why should the scoring change if the ability to take first is extended to all counts?
the linked article is actually completely wrong in my view -  
Del Shofner : 7/14/2019 10:53 am : link
"A batter has stolen first base for the first team in baseball history.

Yes, you read that right. On Saturday, an Atlantic League batter stole first base, marking the first time the feat has ever been accomplished."

But it wasn't a stolen base, it was a fielders' choice. If it had been a stolen base, it would have been scored as a stolen base.

Hard to tell what's more stupid - the rule or the coverage of it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Weird rule  
robbieballs2003 : 7/14/2019 10:54 am : link
In comment 14498395 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14498385 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:



Correct but if a WP or PB leads to a runner getting on base then it should be made an error to adjust to the new rule.

Either way, this is just dumb.


When a batter reaches first on a dropped third strike now irs not scored an error. Why should the scoring change if the ability to take first is extended to all counts?


Because it was said it was treated as a SB but I guess you are right because a typical SB is just treated as a SB. I guess I am just using more common sense than sticking to the rules. If a runner takes first and the only way to do that is by a fuckup then that to me is an error. But according to the rules it isnt.
Terrible  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 7/14/2019 11:00 am : link
Are they trying to get rid of breaking pitches?
If they implement this rule I'll stop watching baseball  
Jints in Carolina : 7/14/2019 11:32 am : link
And I'm not kidding.
So how do you handle the following?  
montanagiant : 7/14/2019 12:42 pm : link
Catcher pulls the hidden ball trick and pretends it got past him. The batter starts running then realizes it after a couple of steps and walks back to batters box but gets tagged as he grabs his bat.

In other words, what constitutes an attempt? 3 steps out of the box? 4?
RE: So how do you handle the following?  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/14/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14498464 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Catcher pulls the hidden ball trick and pretends it got past him. The batter starts running then realizes it after a couple of steps and walks back to batters box but gets tagged as he grabs his bat.

In other words, what constitutes an attempt? 3 steps out of the box? 4?

I don’t know, but I would guess they use a boundary. Exiting the 13’ circle around the batters box would seem logical.
RE: So how do you handle the following?  
Mad Mike : 7/14/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14498464 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Catcher pulls the hidden ball trick and pretends it got past him. The batter starts running then realizes it after a couple of steps and walks back to batters box but gets tagged as he grabs his bat.

In other words, what constitutes an attempt? 3 steps out of the box? 4?

If he starts to run, he's a runner. It's umpire's judgement, but it sounds like even one step towards first would put the runner at risk once he's fully out of the batter's box.

Quote:
The catcher fails to catch any pitch and the batter immediately chooses to
become a runner. The batter shall be deemed to have chosen to become a
runner under this rule if (i) both of the batter’s feet leave the batter’s box,
and (ii) the batter, in the umpire’s judgment, demonstrates or otherwise
creates an impression of his intent to advance to first base. If first base is
occupied when the batter chooses to become a runner this creates a force
play.

lonk - ( New Window )
.  
Del Shofner : 7/14/2019 6:48 pm : link
"If first base is occupied when the batter chooses to become a runner this creates a force play."

This is unclear to me. A force at first? A force at second? Both? If no runner is at first when the batter chooses to run, is it a force at first (as with a dropped third strike) or does he have to be tagged (as with a stolen base attempt)?
To me it sounds exciting  
giantsFC : 7/14/2019 8:39 pm : link
Maybe it moves the game faster?

It would be cool to see in playoff situations for strategy
RE: .  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/14/2019 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14498734 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
"If first base is occupied when the batter chooses to become a runner this creates a force play."

This is unclear to me. A force at first? A force at second? Both? If no runner is at first when the batter chooses to run, is it a force at first (as with a dropped third strike) or does he have to be tagged (as with a stolen base attempt)?

Once the batter runs he has no where to go back to, so it’s a force play and you just need to throw to first, same as a dropped third strike now,

Based on the statement above, if there’s a runner on first, he’s forced to run to second. Thus you could get a double play out of it. Of course, if you were to tag the batter out first, then the runner occupying first is no longer forced and could safely return/stay on first.
RE: To me it sounds exciting  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/15/2019 7:58 am : link
In comment 14498796 giantsFC said:
Quote:
Maybe it moves the game faster?

It would be cool to see in playoff situations for strategy


It would neither move the game faster nor be used strategically.

It would actually extend the game if more players got to base and you can't really plan strategically for such a thing except to have pitchers not throw sliders and sharp-breaking pitches with a lead and nobody on base.
RE: RE: To me it sounds exciting  
Eman11 : 7/15/2019 8:06 am : link
In comment 14498900 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14498796 giantsFC said:


Quote:


Maybe it moves the game faster?

It would be cool to see in playoff situations for strategy



It would neither move the game faster nor be used strategically.

It would actually extend the game if more players got to base and you can't really plan strategically for such a thing except to have pitchers not throw sliders and sharp-breaking pitches with a lead and nobody on base.


I think it's a rediculous idea and am totally against it but I could see it possibly used strategically.

Let's say there was a batter you in no way wanted to pitch to. Instead of pitching around him or even intentionally walking him, you throw a few in the dirt in the hopes he runs to first. Maybe you get lucky and throw him out but worst case scenario he ends up on 1st where he would've anyway. At least you took a shot and gave yourself a chance to get him out without actually pitching to him.
The best rule to make baseball watchable...  
Maryland Giant : 7/15/2019 11:30 am : link
...would be to allow the batting team to deploy players in the field a reasonable distance from the fielders and as soon as the ball is hit they can release and attempt to assault the fielders like defensive backs blowing up receivers.

In the alternative, you could just deploy one guy and release him at the pitcher and his goal is to sack the pitcher before he releases the pitch.

Those would rule changes that would truly improve the game.
The..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/15/2019 11:35 am : link
XLB!!!
I think it's a good idea to test it out  
PaulBlakeTSU : 7/15/2019 12:50 pm : link
With offenses incented to swing for the fences, it could be a way to add baserunners and more exciting play in the field. The Atlantic League is the perfect place to test it out. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

My only issue right now is that if the batter decides on the first pitch to steal first, his output is credited as 0-1. It hurts his batting average and OBP which shouldn't be the case. But that's minor.
Good comments about the article itself  
Matt M. : 7/15/2019 1:36 pm : link
Did the writer not understand the rule, or did they just use "steal" as the description to be able to slap a label on this? Because the rule doesn't call it a steal and it really isn't one. Regardless, I hope this never even makes it into consideration.
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