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Warren Sharp @SharpFootball What was Eli Manning doing? 3rd & goal: Odell Beckham is inexplicably left wide open for the easiest passing TD vs the #27 pass D... but with plenty of time on the play clock, Eli fails to audible & instead runs Saquon into a loaded box of the #11 run D. |
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| Kurt Warner @kurt13warner · 3h Replying to @SharpFootball and @EDnSantaPaula How is it a loaded box? 6 blockers and 6 defenders? Guy on outside to right is insignificant to run to left... only thing against his was the front! He looks at BOX & if 6v6 u run it, don’t even consider changing unless u recognize uncovered man! |
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| Joseph Raycraft @gofastjoey · 3h Replying to @kurt13warner @SharpFootball and @EDnSantaPaula but isnt the point him missing the uncovered man? who, in this case, happens to be one of the best in the league |
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| Kurt Warner @kurt13warner Replying to @gofastjoey @SharpFootball and @EDnSantaPaula Not really - bc when condensed like that in tight RZ - to attack that small area w/ an audible is hard to do! The best they could of hoped for is eye contact & pop up & hit it... but what if the QB thinks his WR sees it & doesn’t & he forgets run to pop to OBJ & he goes to block! |
I was being a tad diplomatic. Didn't want this to devolve (which is inevitable anyway) immediately following the first post.
My point being, this play... This one singular play, was pretty much a cut and dried example of how Manning "doesn't have it". In the eyes of some, it was undeniable proof. So I'm just pointing out the nuance, all these months later. Or rather, Kurt Warner did to Mr. Sharpe.
No time to survey the field? Based on what?
Can we cut the shit about the E Hive? No one should ever mention a phrase coined by Ross again. The guy was a know-nothing parasite and should be in the company of He Who Shall Not Be Named.
It's like shit to a fly
That's what I thought when I originally read it.
But that just the naive opinion of an uninformed fan.
Clearly Eli did the right thing... so the play didn't work? Shit happens!
Maybe he should've shouted at the LOS instead?
"Yo, OBJ, I got you on the square out!!! OK 'Lil Buddy?"
A while back I commented on a BJac interview with Dottino, and few were interested. But there was a lot of good inside shit in that interview, because that's the way BJac rolls. One of the best parts is BJac explaining the blitz pickup Eli called and he executed on the easy peasy looking winning TD pass Eli threw to Plax in SB 42.
The whole play call was anything but simple! Eli's recognition of the Pats all out blitz that is going to leave Hobbs on Plax, one on one, no help... but how to get it all blocked up, so that Eli actually has a shot at making the pass to Plax, telling BJac and the team what the blocking scheme is in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage so that BJac would pick up the blitzing Rodney Harrison...
It's a good listen for ignorant fans like me and this Warren Sharpe guy who thinks he knows better than Eli and Jacobs, and you get a sense for the uphill battle most rookie RBs have once the enter the NFL, how their pass blocking responsibilities will change and grow.
The interview is still up on Giants.com a worth a listen.
Barkley has alluded to that knowledge is one of the ways his game can still grow at this level in year 2. And Shurmur and Shula both have acknowledged how they expect Eli to "have it down this year so that he [Eli] can teach them a thing or two..."
Recall by last game versus Dallas he finally understood his job...
OBJ reminded me of Shofkey. Addition by subtraction.
But that just the naive opinion of an uninformed fan.
If Beckham were in the end zone when Eli was audibling he would have been offsides. The audible is, of course, called presnap.
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Complicated if a quarterback Focuses on a defensive defensive formation to the extent they miss a receiver standing in the end zone 8’yards away
But that just the naive opinion of an uninformed fan.
If Beckham were in the end zone when Eli was audibling he would have been offsides. The audible is, of course, called presnap.
You didn't get the memo. It is always Eli's fault. In this instance, Eli's clairvoyance is apparently slipping in his old age. His detractors expect him to know the outcome of the plays before they happen.
The poster was at the game... shit on Eli like usual, and didn’t even come close to realize that OBJ failed to recognize what the defense was. The commentators mentioned it. The people at home saw it. But the same poster said it didn’t matter, it was still Eli’s fault. Even though a future hall of Famer explained how OBJ messed up... the poster even proclaimed him and and everyone in his section said it was Eli’s fault and that he knew more than Witten.
Wonder who that certain special person was...
Please go back to the Browns board.
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In comment 14498788 joeinpa said:
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Complicated if a quarterback Focuses on a defensive defensive formation to the extent they miss a receiver standing in the end zone 8’yards away
But that just the naive opinion of an uninformed fan.
If Beckham were in the end zone when Eli was audibling he would have been offsides. The audible is, of course, called presnap.
You didn't get the memo. It is always Eli's fault. In this instance, Eli's clairvoyance is apparently slipping in his old age. His detractors expect him to know the outcome of the plays before they happen.
Seriously you took my post as a shot at Eli, wow.
I was making a generalization that if a receiver uncovered at the line of scrimmage goes unnoticed because the defensive formation calls for a run, that reeks a bit of paralysis by analysis.
This was no way a shot at Eli. Some of you guys are so sensitive about Eli it s impossible to have an objective discussion about anything regarding him.
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Ya think? Guys look at TV or even All 22 footage without knowing the play call, blocking assignments or audibles and think they can tell you who did what and who made a mistake. Doesn’t work like that. Scouts and coaches spend their whole lives studying football to be able to do that. Yet, we even have posters here who think they can break down film.
I was being a tad diplomatic. Didn't want this to devolve (which is inevitable anyway) immediately following the first post.
My point being, this play... This one singular play, was pretty much a cut and dried example of how Manning "doesn't have it". In the eyes of some, it was undeniable proof. So I'm just pointing out the nuance, all these months later. Or rather, Kurt Warner did to Mr. Sharpe.
I don't remember the thread well, but was there really anyone serious poster who said this was "cut and dried," "undeniable proof," Manning "doesn't have it."
I suspect if we pulled up the thread, one or two usual suspects who are here to antagonize beat the drum, and that mostly everyone wasn't hyperbolic and just called it a bad play.
Now maybe it wasn't a bad play and those people were wrong. Which isn't such a grievous sin for fans on a football website?
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In comment 14498704 BillT said:
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Ya think? Guys look at TV or even All 22 footage without knowing the play call, blocking assignments or audibles and think they can tell you who did what and who made a mistake. Doesn’t work like that. Scouts and coaches spend their whole lives studying football to be able to do that. Yet, we even have posters here who think they can break down film.
I was being a tad diplomatic. Didn't want this to devolve (which is inevitable anyway) immediately following the first post.
My point being, this play... This one singular play, was pretty much a cut and dried example of how Manning "doesn't have it". In the eyes of some, it was undeniable proof. So I'm just pointing out the nuance, all these months later. Or rather, Kurt Warner did to Mr. Sharpe.
I don't remember the thread well, but was there really anyone serious poster who said this was "cut and dried," "undeniable proof," Manning "doesn't have it."
I suspect if we pulled up the thread, one or two usual suspects who are here to antagonize beat the drum, and that mostly everyone wasn't hyperbolic and just called it a bad play.
Now maybe it wasn't a bad play and those people were wrong. Which isn't such a grievous sin for fans on a football website?
It is one example of something that happens regularly. People lay a verdict on something they see without having all the information, and state it as definitive fact. C'mon, are you saying this is an isolated incident?
The interesting thing about this one, to me, is that the self proclaimed expert, Warren Sharp, would post about it seemingly randomly and out of nowhere months later, in July. Why? I certainly never would have brought up the play, I had forgotten about it, actually. Warner took him to school and so called expert Warren Sharp didn't reply because he got schooled.
If anything, I would hope that would be a learning experience for Mr. Sharp, and anybody else who speaks on things like this definitively on Monday mornings.
I know many didn't like Written in the booth, but I found his insight into offensive assignments and expectations to be fascinating and educational
7/14/19, 9:41 PM
@SharpFootball It’s a walk in TD if the C even attempts to block the correct LB
Exclamation point.
Or is it a Hall of Fame, professional analyst quarterback has a different opinion than an amateur on the internet and presumably knows better?
I'd hope the former QB knows the game better, and I'm sure at the time if this were a topic of debate on the sports shows he said as much.
I think your posts would be better served without the hyperbole or with at least a tinge of evidence. Or maybe just not veer into the defensiveness and stick to basic topic that fans have limited knowledge.
I know many didn't like Written in the booth, but I found his insight into offensive assignments and expectations to be fascinating and educational
There was a poster who was at the game said him and his drunken friends said and posted during the game thread that Eli was wrong andthat Witten was wrong as well. He is never wrong. Even though they showed clearly how OBJ messed up on a play. But he always blames Eli.
I wonder who that poster was "..."
So why exactly is this play being harped on anyway?
Actually, Brady did just that in not one, but two playoff games last year!! It was talked about on the broadcast and then, as should be, it was left to die on the vine.
You don't have an analyst months later bringing it up.
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Happened in the Atlanta game. McFarland(a dl) would criticize manning for a play, Witten would then educate not only the fans watching(if we care to listen) and McFarland also by telling us what the receiver should be doing, while also explaining what the QB is expecting.
I know many didn't like Written in the booth, but I found his insight into offensive assignments and expectations to be fascinating and educational
There was a poster who was at the game said him and his drunken friends said and posted during the game thread that Eli was wrong andthat Witten was wrong as well. He is never wrong. Even though they showed clearly how OBJ messed up on a play. But he always blames Eli.
I wonder who that poster was "..."
I am going to venture a guess that it was...
Booger McFarland! I think he posts here as what he says during games matches what is said here, he also seems to e quite drunk per his analysis
WE CAN DO IT!
That would require that he actually posted about football!
Or is it a Hall of Fame, professional analyst quarterback has a different opinion than an amateur on the internet and presumably knows better?
I'd hope the former QB knows the game better, and I'm sure at the time if this were a topic of debate on the sports shows he said as much.
I think your posts would be better served without the hyperbole or with at least a tinge of evidence. Or maybe just not veer into the defensiveness and stick to basic topic that fans have limited knowledge.
Oh come on. Are we going to pick and choose things we take literally and figuratively?
Secondly, you yourself in one post say "hey, it's what fans do on a football message board" and in the next post talk about "stay away from hyperbole" which is also what fans do on a football message board. Unlike Mr. Sharp, I don't proclaim myself an expert on the matter.
The tinge of evidence is reading this board for the past three years. If you don't think things like what Mr. Sharp has done on Twitter occur all the time here on this board, then I don't know what to tell you.
The problem was that the Giants were a bad team and when you are a bad team things go bad more often than not. Picking one play out of the many during the season is a poor sample size. I'm sure the coaches in film review look things over and see what the proper play call is and address it. One thing you can never say about Eli is he is unprepared. People miss calls all the time but I think more often than not Eli will make the correct read and correct audible. His issue has more to do with the execution in my eyes and the most recent issues seem to have left him with happy feet. Can he shake that with a better line? Time will tell as this is hos last shot with the Giants imo if he doesnt make the playoffs.
If it is the former, this is no different than the anti-Eli threads, where people just focus on a single play and use it to make their case.
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we go.
It's like shit to a fly
No, just shit. Don't bash the fly.
If it is the former, this is no different than the anti-Eli threads, where people just focus on a single play and use it to make their case.
No this thread is better because Eli is probably the most disrespected 2 time champion in the city of New York and maybe the entire NFL.
Threads like these are always welcome here among a core group of Giants fans who recognize Eli as an all time franchise great and like too see holes punched through the constant "he sucks" narrative.
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So just to be clear, did anyone actually ever say this was undeniable proof Eli Manning doesn't have it? Because that's a pretty straightforward, verifiable claim.
Or is it a Hall of Fame, professional analyst quarterback has a different opinion than an amateur on the internet and presumably knows better?
I'd hope the former QB knows the game better, and I'm sure at the time if this were a topic of debate on the sports shows he said as much.
I think your posts would be better served without the hyperbole or with at least a tinge of evidence. Or maybe just not veer into the defensiveness and stick to basic topic that fans have limited knowledge.
Oh come on. Are we going to pick and choose things we take literally and figuratively?
Secondly, you yourself in one post say "hey, it's what fans do on a football message board" and in the next post talk about "stay away from hyperbole" which is also what fans do on a football message board. Unlike Mr. Sharp, I don't proclaim myself an expert on the matter.
The tinge of evidence is reading this board for the past three years. If you don't think things like what Mr. Sharp has done on Twitter occur all the time here on this board, then I don't know what to tell you.
OK got it -- so no one, to your knowledge actually made the claims you posted -- and it was figurative. That makes more sense.
I'm all for factual, fact supported discussion, from the fans on this site and professionals.
Personally, I feel Manning is so over analyzed he's actually underrated at this point, and I don't even think he's very good.
On this play, it made me remember the many anecdotes from Burress and Toomer on their non-verbal, unscripted communication. Things like head nods, or risking motion penalties to getting the QBs attention if wide open.
I suspect you need an line you explicitly trust to play that game in a game.
So then what is the point?
Link - ( New Window )
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So then what is the point?
As Britt said above:
Do you want to go around in circles or do you want to go ahead and acknowledge what most on here already know that what Warren Sharp just did on twitter yesterday is a common occurrence right here on this board?
We can get cute and cherry pick all day long, but it would be a lot easier to just acknowledge that the sentiment exists and get on with it.
The numbers themselves have been mediocre-at-best for going on three years now, and so has the W-L record with the exception of 2016.
Perceptions will only get better if both improve; someone's misdiagnoses of a play isn't going to move the needle.
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Isn't that the play where the coach literally said "throw it to Beckham?"
Do you want to go around in circles or do you want to go ahead and acknowledge what most on here already know that what Warren Sharp just did on twitter yesterday is a common occurrence right here on this board?
We can get cute and cherry pick all day long, but it would be a lot easier to just acknowledge that the sentiment exists and get on with it.
I'm not denying that all -- I think plenty of folks post emotional opinions as fact, and exaggerate the thoughts of others as well to support their claims.
I think you inject that type of thinking into your posts on Manning quite frequently and it's the same type of logical fallacy.
Incomplete and unsubstantiated opinion. I think that's exact what you did, posting a thread about a play where the coach literally in the moment criticized Manning as evidence of some deeper trend to unfairly get after Manning.
I could dig up other examples. You and I both know that, they wouldn't be hard to find. Just seems unnecessary.
That was just the first one that popped up.
I got it wrong??? Really... you didn’t say it was Eli’s fault for OBJ stopping when he thought it was open? I remember you specifically saying it didn’t matter what Eli thought. He should have thrown it when he wasn’t open and not read the defense and that you and you’re drunken buddies in the section agreed. And when people said that Witten blames OBJ, you dismissed it.
I got it wrong? Hmmmm...
Eli has been under pressure too but he has no interest to look downfield either. None
Jimmy Googs : 10/22/2018 9:21 pm : link
there.
Lord...
Jimmy Googs : 10/22/2018 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14140485 crick n NC said:
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Says over the experts here.
Eli holds the ball and gets bitched at, he checks it down and gets bitched at
Typical. Defenders of the Faith...unite
Jimmy Googs : 10/22/2018 9:39 pm : link
He was wide open and needed the ball thrown to him. It would have bern a TD. Case closed.
Everybody in my section said same thing...
Now I’m sure you’re going to spin this shit as if you never said it... and make up shit as if you know what you’re talking about. But you were wrong again. It’s a common theme.
Pages 14-18 if you want to read your moronic takes.
LOL at the chucklehead... - ( New Window )
Personally, I feel Manning is so over analyzed he's actually underrated at this point, and I don't even think he's very good.
On this play, it made me remember the many anecdotes from Burress and Toomer on their non-verbal, unscripted communication. Things like head nods, or risking motion penalties to getting the QBs attention if wide open.
I suspect you need an line you explicitly trust to play that game in a game.
If your take is that it boils down to "trust" you've 100% missed the point. The issue being discussed, as far as the play itself is concerned, has nothing at all to do with "trust" and everything to do with knowledge and communication among 11 people on a football field.
Because there are posters who call the two SB wins outliers and spend a lot of time trying to defend that position.
There's always reference to "both sides" on Eli, but the motivation for one side to admire him is fairly easy to figure out and rationalize.
the side that bashes him is the side that is a lot harder to figure out. What's the motivation?
Because there are posters who call the two SB wins outliers and spend a lot of time trying to defend that position.
There's always reference to "both sides" on Eli, but the motivation for one side to admire him is fairly easy to figure out and rationalize.
the side that bashes him is the side that is a lot harder to figure out. What's the motivation?
To prove they were right in 2004 that we gave up too much for him.
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In comment 14498937 christian said:...
Personally, I feel Manning is so over analyzed he's actually underrated at this point, and I don't even think he's very good.
On this play, it made me remember the many anecdotes from Burress and Toomer on their non-verbal, unscripted communication. Things like head nods, or risking motion penalties to getting the QBs attention if wide open.
I suspect you need an line you explicitly trust to play that game in a game.
If your take is that it boils down to "trust" you've 100% missed the point. The issue being discussed, as far as the play itself is concerned, has nothing at all to do with "trust" and everything to do with knowledge and communication among 11 people on a football field.
I have literally no idea what you are referring to, I'm simply noting if players are going to go off script and the other 9 guys *not* know it, the QB has to trust the line will hold up.
This is something Manning has expressed he's done with some regularity with his receivers.
Because there are posters who call the two SB wins outliers and spend a lot of time trying to defend that position.
There's always reference to "both sides" on Eli, but the motivation for one side to admire him is fairly easy to figure out and rationalize.
the side that bashes him is the side that is a lot harder to figure out. What's the motivation?
To a man, I can't think of any pro-Eli guy that was upset when we drafted Daniel Jones, or even before when it was becoming clear we were planning for the future of the position post Manning.
What is hard to understand is the relentless bashing of him on the way out. And it is relentless, and it's not confined to this board either. What prompts a guy like Warren Sharp to post a single play from November in July, not to mention a game Manning won with a 4th quarter comeback game winning drive and TD throw? Where does that come from?
this.
No one is bashing Eli anymore. People may bash the org's handling of the QB position, but the debate on his ability has been very very quiet.
No one is bashing Eli anymore. People may bash the org's handling of the QB position, but the debate on his ability has been very very quiet.
Hmm 🤔
Where is the apology post from the next day?
Where is the apology post from the next day?
You were clearly wrong and won’t admit it. Shocking huh son? No any more lying and you’re grounded!!!
Amazing, huh?
This is why you apologized after the game as I recall..
It’s so pathetic you just can’t admit being wrong. I showed the quotes. I showed the thread and you still can’t admit it.
I haven’t attacked anyone. Just pointing out the obvious with actual proof from threads which were posted on in the past.
Go find the apology and use it again...
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and ended up reading another thread that devolved into another user being attacked by dep. Shocking.
I haven’t attacked anyone. Just pointing out the obvious with actual proof from threads which were posted on in the past.
So calling posters drunks is a compliment in your mind?
To any alcoholics on the site, Dep send his best wishes...
It does keep me amused.
It does keep me amused.
I call BS! Nothing keeps you amused you crotchety ‘Ol bastid! NTTAWWT
Actually I have a HOF on my side. You have the guys who couldn’t see a naked chick a row in front of them but somehow can disssct a play from over hundred yards away...
But keeping bring the HOFs to "your side". Maybe he will mention you in his speech at Canton too...
But keeping bring the HOFs to "your side". Maybe he will mention you in his speech at Canton too...
Again it’s nice you know more football than actual hall of fame players.
Forget the fact that you can’t even understand a simple route concept where a player is suppose to be when it’s a zone defense. You don’t even understand that Eli was throwing to a spot even before OBJ turned around(which was shown at halftime and told by the analysts saying that Eli reads zone correctly and throws it to the right spot.)
But again... you’re never wrong, right?
1. You made a bunch of stupid statement using “fans” as your backup.
2. People on this site tried to explain why you were wrong.
3. A hall of famer explained in detail why your thought was wrong.
4. They showed replays of Eli throwing it before OBJ getting out of his break.
Yet you STILL won’t admit you’re wrong. It’s sad. It’s pathetic. It’s you. Grow up.
When you start to understand why QBs throw to certain spots dictated by either zone or man defense, then come talk football with me or anyone here. Until then, continue with your stupid nicknames, stalking ways...
Keep it simple and you will be wrong less often, “son”...
Knows more than everyone.
I’m sure he will break down and admit that you are just so much smarter than all of the coaches and players in the league.
Cause you know son, you’re never wrong!
LMAO and Jason Witten, Kurt Warner, Matt Hasselbeck, etc... who all said during the game and post game that OBJ screwed up. But what do they know, right?
But again, you’re never wrong!
To a man, I can't think of any pro-Eli guy that was upset when we drafted Daniel Jones, or even before when it was becoming clear we were planning for the future of the position post Manning.
What is hard to understand is the relentless bashing of him on the way out. And it is relentless, and it's not confined to this board either. What prompts a guy like Warren Sharp to post a single play from November in July, not to mention a game Manning won with a 4th quarter comeback game winning drive and TD throw? Where does that come from?