Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4m
Replying to
@TommyBeer
Mitchell Robinson started all five games and averaged:
13.8 points (on 85% shooting!!!)
10.6 rebounds and
3.4 blocks
in 25.2 minutes.
He finished summer league with more than three times as many blocks (17) as missed shots (5).
He was 29-of-34 from the floor over the five games
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
47m
Ignas Brazdeikis appeared in all five games and averaged:
15.4 points (on 51% shooting) and 5.2 rebounds, and was 11-of-22 (50%) from 3-point territory.
Brazdeikis was one of only five players in Vegas to average more than 15 points and 5 boards while shooting above 50%
Show this thread
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
1h
RJ Barrett started all five of the Knicks summer league games and averaged:
15.4 points (on 34% shooting)
8.6 rebounds and
4.2 assists.
He is the first player in the history of the Las Vegas Summer League to average more than 15 points, more than 8 rebs and more than 4 assists.
Bondy says Morris turned down 3 for 41 earlier in FA
He's very aggressive going to the glass. Reminds me a lot of Leonard's rebounding ability.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
3m
Free agent F Henry Ellenson is signing a two-way contract with the Brooklyn Nets, league sources tell ESPN.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
3m
Free agent F Henry Ellenson is signing a two-way contract with the Brooklyn Nets, league sources tell ESPN.
crap ... leaves us thin at power forward! :-)
Actually, didn't he have one awesome game for us last season?
RJ Barrett started all five of the Knicks summer league games and averaged:
15.4 points (on 34% shooting)
8.6 rebounds and
4.2 assists.
He is the first player in the history of the Las Vegas Summer League to average more than 15 points, more than 8 rebs and more than 4 assists.
AND
In the his last three games, RJ averaged 20, 9 and 6, shot 43% from the floor and 31% from three
As with anything on paper his upside is limited due to being an okay athlete tweener BUT there are those who surprise so who knows? He does look like a keeper however. The Knicks have some decent young talent, not sure I see any clear future stars (which they will need) but young talent is always good to have.
Love Joe Ingles, I would be very happy if he can be as good as him.
I do think however that he has the potential to be more than that if he can become a consistent offensive player.
I do think however that he has the potential to be more than that if he can become a consistent offensive player.
You are severely underselling his potential. His upside is a DPOY and elite finisher. No reason he cannot have a Deandre Jordan career.
I do think however that he has the potential to be more than that if he can become a consistent offensive player.
A backup? He was 6th in BPM amongst Centers as a rookie who didn't play competitive ball for a year. Only Jokic, AD, Gobert, Towns and Vucevic had a higher BPM. 6th all time amongst rookies in WS/48 and 5th all time amongst rookies in BPM.
I agree. He’s so raw offensively and has a low iq, that K don’t think he could go beyond that. But who knows, all players are different.
Two comments: There's no scenario where I want Mitch shooting mid range jumpers. And, not sure why you're putting quotes around "shooting". If shooting 85% after 5 games was easy, lots of folks would do it. Mitch may never develop a mid range shot or 3pt shot. But if he can become a decent free throw shooter, he has the chance to be an absolutely elite roll guy in the PnR. He's so long and athletic and has actually has nice touch around the basket for layups.
From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.
Quote:
speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.
From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.
I think you're severely underrating how good Jordan has been. Forget longevity. Career 10 points 11 boards 2 blocks on 67% from the field, 5 times led the league in shooting %, 2 times led the league in rebounding, .173 WS/48. I'm big on Mitch but hard to see a scenario he's better than that. "Impossible" maybe not but Jordan is/ws was damn good. 170 million in career earnings including his new deal.
Forget All-Star. If Mitch became DeAndre Jordan with better free throw shooting and shot blocking he would be perennial All-NBA.
Quote:
In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.
From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.
I think you're severely underrating how good Jordan has been. Forget longevity. Career 10 points 11 boards 2 blocks on 67% from the field, 5 times led the league in shooting %, 2 times led the league in rebounding, .173 WS/48. I'm big on Mitch but hard to see a scenario he's better than that. "Impossible" maybe not but Jordan is/ws was damn good. 170 million in career earnings including his new deal.
That's not unreasonable, but I'd say Mitch is a much better shot blocker than Jordan. Mitch led the league in blocks per 36 minutes last season at 4.3. Turner was a distant secons at 3.4.
Quote:
In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.
From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.
I think you're severely underrating how good Jordan has been. Forget longevity. Career 10 points 11 boards 2 blocks on 67% from the field, 5 times led the league in shooting %, 2 times led the league in rebounding, .173 WS/48. I'm big on Mitch but hard to see a scenario he's better than that. "Impossible" maybe not but Jordan is/ws was damn good. 170 million in career earnings including his new deal.
Imagine if DJ could actually hit a FT! :-D
I don’t think he will ever have a mid range game. He can’t shoot off the dribble either facing forward or with his back to the basket. He is basically a Motumbo. Let’s hope he can be as good.
I think maybe he could develop a three. If he can hit even 33% from out there, he can draw his defender away from the paint. Only 60% from foul line last year. But he has decent form. Should be able to hit 75% eventually
That may also be related to body type. Much tougher to defend if you're not stout. Even if he can add some mass & strength in the coming years, he may always be slender. So that's going to take time whether to build strength or improve his D technique & instinct further beyond just blocks
The J, sure maybe 3 can happen. And even the skills above will aid his J development. But he'd need to start at 10-15' & FTs. Not very likely you can be a good shooter from distance but not make mid-range Js, even if you don't go to it often in game
I'd say if he does improve his strength & 1-on-1 D, sure DPOY starts coming into focus. But that's also not likely a 1 off-season or year improvement considering where he is, nor a guarantee further down the road
DeAndre Jordan is a 3x All-NBA center. How is that comp underselling Robinson? I’d be thrilled if he made All-NBA once, forget 3x.
Um. Who said he can't be DeAndre Jordan? Talk about selective reading lol. I said we should be happy if he becomes Jordan 2.0. Jordan career 10 and 11 on 67% from the field. Jordan averaged 12 points 15 boards 2 seasons ago... Chris Paul was nowhere to be found.
length
athleticism
defensive instincts/timing
motor
also seems to be very coach-able
I am not sure why any of you would be cynical about his ceiling.
Quote:
I know it's become second nature as Knicks fans to be pessimistic but we're talking about a 20 year old who came off a full year of not playing competitive basketball. He can't be Deandre Jordan? A one time All-Star who has career averages of 9 points and 11 rebounds per game who greatly benefited from one of the league's all time greatest PGs? DJ is the all time leader in shooting percentage at just over 67%. His last year with Chris Paul he shot 71%. He hasn't been over 65% since. Mitchell Robinson shot 69% last year with the garbage that was around him. He's already a better shot blocker than DJ. 11.2 boards per 36 minutes with that frame and no one thinks he'll get better as he matures and gets stronger? We have at worse a perennial DPOY candidate here and with some refinement a perennial All-NBA candidate. Believe that.
Um. Who said he can't be DeAndre Jordan? Talk about selective reading lol. I said we should be happy if he becomes Jordan 2.0. Jordan career 10 and 11 on 67% from the field. Jordan averaged 12 points 15 boards 2 seasons ago... Chris Paul was nowhere to be found.
There were posts above with thoughts of him being a career backup and having a low iq. I wasn't talking about you and if anything only using DJ's name as a reference to say he can surpass it. That doesn't change that the season he had two years ago was the lowest shooting percentage he had since the first year with CP3 and the Clippers were more than comfortable moving on afterward. Mitch has the potential to have a 12 and 15 type season with the blocking ability. He has a high ceiling. More than one all star appearance and even three All-NBA teams. We should all be excited about that.
length
athleticism
defensive instincts/timing
motor
also seems to be very coach-able
I am not sure why any of you would be cynical about his ceiling.
exactly
length
athleticism
defensive instincts/timing
motor
also seems to be very coach-able
I am not sure why any of you would be cynical about his ceiling.
I loved what I saw from him last year but he is far from elite in defensive instincts and timing. It actually needs a lot of work as does his 1v1 defense- particularly in the post.
He showed a lot of promise as a rookie but he still has strides to make. Projecting a similar career as Deandre Jordan would be a successful outcome for him. I'm hoping he get close to Gobert but I know that's ambitious.
They're 6'10, white and went to bummy ass Marquette. That's where the comparison stops. Their games are completely different.
Quote:
seems like a Steve novak type but obviously needs to prove he can shoot like that.
They're 6'10, white and went to bummy ass Marquette. That's where the comparison stops. Their games are completely different.
I know he barely played but what's Ellenson's game? Most reports have called him a stretch 4.
And Frank and Iggy are 20, Trier is 23 and Randle and Portis are 24. That's nine guys 24 or younger.
I hope they don't at this point. They won't get any value in return. I'd rather they hold onto him for his 3rd season and hopefully something clicks. I still see a chance he could become a good contributing NBA player and he's the only good perimeter defender on the roster.
Quote:
think Frank is traded for scraps within the next few months. Nothing they have said or done has suggested they still believe in him.
I hope they don't at this point. They won't get any value in return. I'd rather they hold onto him for his 3rd season and hopefully something clicks. I still see a chance he could become a good contributing NBA player and he's the only good perimeter defender on the roster.
Just reading the tea leaves and the way they handle him. Fiz has him as a 2 going forward.. Barrett at least for now is a 2. They have Bullock, Dotson Trier + added Payton to DSJ at the 1. Playing Mudiay extensively over Frank wasn't the best look either.
As an aside, it would have been nice if the Knicks had taken a flyer on Taco Fall. What's worse than not having him on the roster is that he's on the Celtics roster. Don't like that at all.
As an aside, it would have been nice if the Knicks had taken a flyer on Taco Fall. What's worse than not having him on the roster is that he's on the Celtics roster. Don't like that at all.
Fall was a steal. He's limited but will be a weapon if used correctly. Teams messed that one up, Bol round 2 another head scratcher, foot issue and all.
As an aside, it would have been nice if the Knicks had taken a flyer on Taco Fall. What's worse than not having him on the roster is that he's on the Celtics roster. Don't like that at all.
Knox's shot and physique looked like it had developed nicely in SL. He looked to me like a broader version of Brandon Ingram. A star? no. But likely a professional NBA wing that can score it in the mid to late teens.
He certainly did. Of course, he was the 2nd youngest player in the league on a team with minimal leadership and in a tank mode. I suspect that starts to change with maturity, his changed surroundings and a much improved handle that will allow him to not settle for bad shots so often
Lol it's funny how you are seemingly talking about an overreaction here yet this being a huge overreaction in the other way after his last few games. He did not have one of the best all around summer leagues in history.
Quote:
Knick fashion everyone came out slamming Barrett after 2 games when he's 19 and hadn't played since March. Then all he does is go out and have one of the better all around summer leagues in history. The kid is taking the franchise on his shoulders so maybe give his career a second to breathe. He's gonna be an awesome, all star caliber player year over year in his prime.
Lol it's funny how you are seemingly talking about an overreaction here yet this being a huge overreaction in the other way after his last few games. He did not have one of the best all around summer leagues in history.
Probably referring to this.
"He is the first player in the history of the Las Vegas Summer League to average more than 15 points, more than 8 rebs and more than 4 assists"
Quote:
In comment 14499135 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Knick fashion everyone came out slamming Barrett after 2 games when he's 19 and hadn't played since March. Then all he does is go out and have one of the better all around summer leagues in history. The kid is taking the franchise on his shoulders so maybe give his career a second to breathe. He's gonna be an awesome, all star caliber player year over year in his prime.
Lol it's funny how you are seemingly talking about an overreaction here yet this being a huge overreaction in the other way after his last few games. He did not have one of the best all around summer leagues in history.
Probably referring to this.
"He is the first player in the history of the Las Vegas Summer League to average more than 15 points, more than 8 rebs and more than 4 assists"
Yeah well FG % matters too...
Actually, Knox did improve. Increased in FG %, 3p%, points, rebounds in the 2nd half. And again, the 2nd youngest guy in the league on a tanking team with no point guard and nobody that you would consider a good passer for his position.
I don't personally think Ntilikina will ever be a viable NBA player. It has less to do with development and more to do with the way he is wired. In short, I think he remains scared of this environment. He is afraid to take shots. Nice kid, but probably doesn't belong playing on this side of the ocean.
Quote:
think Fizdale deserves some "blame" for how little development we saw from Knox/Frank. It's not clear what the system and expectations were. Fiz's rep is in player development but did we really see that? I mean we have nothing to really compare Mitch to, but the other young player came in looking X and mostly looked the same to end the season. Didn't care for Trier having a green light vs. other players, strange.
Actually, Knox did improve. Increased in FG %, 3p%, points, rebounds in the 2nd half. And again, the 2nd youngest guy in the league on a tanking team with no point guard and nobody that you would consider a good passer for his position.
I don't personally think Ntilikina will ever be a viable NBA player. It has less to do with development and more to do with the way he is wired. In short, I think he remains scared of this environment. He is afraid to take shots. Nice kid, but probably doesn't belong playing on this side of the ocean.
You can't honestly tell me you saw a tangible developmental difference in Knox's game. He had some solid games a long the way. You really think shooting 38% vs. 36% (second half vs. first) is something to give Fizdale credit for? or .6 rebounds more? .5 rebounds? I'm not giving up on Knox but he was disappointing and I don't recall many (if any) people were really impressed with what he did second half vs. first. Looked like the same player to me.
Probably because they dont want to have a press cknference where the media just asks about kd and kyrie..
I'm taking Barrett, Mitch 2nd, then Knox.
You don't have to like Allonzo Trier's game, but he was clearly prepared to play last season. I don't know that we have to really hold someone's feet to the fire regarding player development.
You don't have to like Allonzo Trier's game, but he was clearly prepared to play last season. I don't know that we have to really hold someone's feet to the fire regarding player development.
You misunderstood the Trier point. Fizdale oddly allowed him to have a green light and even joked about the iso ball he played. Strange to give a role player a different set of “rules”
Quote:
is there anyone on BBI who would take Knox over Mitch if you could only have one? If you could only have Knox/Mitch/Frank/Barrett... who do you take?
I'm taking Barrett, Mitch 2nd, then Knox.
It's a little early, but I'm wondering where Iggy is going to fit in on that company.
Quote:
who didn't play college basketball and had sat out for a full calendar year. Any way you slice his rookie year it's a testament to player development to not only get him ready to play, but be excellent.
You don't have to like Allonzo Trier's game, but he was clearly prepared to play last season. I don't know that we have to really hold someone's feet to the fire regarding player development.
You misunderstood the Trier point. Fizdale oddly allowed him to have a green light and even joked about the iso ball he played. Strange to give a role player a different set of “rules”
When you look at last year's roster, they didn't really have a clear cut pecking order for a 'go to' scorer. In a year where the front office seemed to be on the same page about tanking, I don't think it's so strange. After the all star break they were just trying to play out the rest of the season and see who had the talent to play in the league or not.
Quote:
think Fizdale deserves some "blame" for how little development we saw from Knox/Frank. It's not clear what the system and expectations were. Fiz's rep is in player development but did we really see that? I mean we have nothing to really compare Mitch to, but the other young player came in looking X and mostly looked the same to end the season. Didn't care for Trier having a green light vs. other players, strange.
Actually, Knox did improve. Increased in FG %, 3p%, points, rebounds in the 2nd half. And again, the 2nd youngest guy in the league on a tanking team with no point guard and nobody that you would consider a good passer for his position.
I don't personally think Ntilikina will ever be a viable NBA player. It has less to do with development and more to do with the way he is wired. In short, I think he remains scared of this environment. He is afraid to take shots. Nice kid, but probably doesn't belong playing on this side of the ocean.
Knox did not improve last season. If anything he got worse. Let’s hope he has a big 2nd year but he had a really bad rookie year. There’s no denying that and it’s a mark on Fizdale’s player development record.
Some people get so much joy out of minimizing Knox's potential.