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NFT: Knicks Chat

DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 10:50 am
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4m
Replying to
@TommyBeer
Mitchell Robinson started all five games and averaged:
13.8 points (on 85% shooting!!!)
10.6 rebounds and
3.4 blocks
in 25.2 minutes.

He finished summer league with more than three times as many blocks (17) as missed shots (5).

He was 29-of-34 from the floor over the five games


Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
47m
Ignas Brazdeikis appeared in all five games and averaged:
15.4 points (on 51% shooting) and 5.2 rebounds, and was 11-of-22 (50%) from 3-point territory.

Brazdeikis was one of only five players in Vegas to average more than 15 points and 5 boards while shooting above 50%
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Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
1h
RJ Barrett started all five of the Knicks summer league games and averaged:
15.4 points (on 34% shooting)
8.6 rebounds and
4.2 assists.

He is the first player in the history of the Las Vegas Summer League to average more than 15 points, more than 8 rebs and more than 4 assists.

Bondy says Morris turned down 3 for 41 earlier in FA
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Really encouraged by Brazdeikis' shooting  
Strahan91 : 7/15/2019 10:53 am : link
It's a small sample size but if he can become a Joe Ingles-type (seems like the best comp out there) it would be quite a get in the second round.
other than RJ's shooting %, those are some very  
Del Shofner : 7/15/2019 10:53 am : link
nice numbers.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 10:56 am : link
shitting on Barrett but the shooting must improve.
Barrett..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/15/2019 10:58 am : link
has been consistent on the boards, and that likely won't change whether or not he's hitting shots.

He's very aggressive going to the glass. Reminds me a lot of Leonard's rebounding ability.
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 10:59 am : link

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
3m
Free agent F Henry Ellenson is signing a two-way contract with the Brooklyn Nets, league sources tell ESPN.
Robinson was a great 2nd round pick. He's a great defender/rebounder  
Ira : 7/15/2019 10:59 am : link
and finds a way to contribute on offense. I was watching Iggy's highlights in the first Summer League game, and Robinson was setting picks for him - and they were good picks. Speaking of Iggy, he's definitely a keeper. He can shoot, put the ball on the floor and finish with either hand. The only question is how good he'll be.
RE: .  
Del Shofner : 7/15/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14499014 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
3m
Free agent F Henry Ellenson is signing a two-way contract with the Brooklyn Nets, league sources tell ESPN.


crap ... leaves us thin at power forward! :-)

Actually, didn't he have one awesome game for us last season?
For all the crap that RJ has received after two bad games  
PhilSimms15 : 7/15/2019 11:02 am : link
More
RJ Barrett started all five of the Knicks summer league games and averaged:
15.4 points (on 34% shooting)
8.6 rebounds and
4.2 assists.

He is the first player in the history of the Las Vegas Summer League to average more than 15 points, more than 8 rebs and more than 4 assists.

AND

In the his last three games, RJ averaged 20, 9 and 6, shot 43% from the floor and 31% from three
RE: Robinson was a great 2nd round pick. He's a great defender/rebounder  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14499015 Ira said:
Quote:
and finds a way to contribute on offense. I was watching Iggy's highlights in the first Summer League game, and Robinson was setting picks for him - and they were good picks. Speaking of Iggy, he's definitely a keeper. He can shoot, put the ball on the floor and finish with either hand. The only question is how good he'll be.


As with anything on paper his upside is limited due to being an okay athlete tweener BUT there are those who surprise so who knows? He does look like a keeper however. The Knicks have some decent young talent, not sure I see any clear future stars (which they will need) but young talent is always good to have.
RE: Really encouraged by Brazdeikis' shooting  
TommyWiseau : 7/15/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14499009 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
It's a small sample size but if he can become a Joe Ingles-type (seems like the best comp out there) it would be quite a get in the second round.


Love Joe Ingles, I would be very happy if he can be as good as him.
I love Robinson  
robbieballs2003 : 7/15/2019 11:21 am : link
But it would have been nice to see him develop a mid range shot during the summer league. He is a good free throw shooter for a big man so why can't he develop that part of his game? "Shooting" 85% from the field doesn't get me excited. I'd rather he take that time to develop other aspects of his game. We all know he can set screens, rebound, dunk, and play defense (some think he needs to improve in this area but he showed a ton of growth in this aspect toward the end of the year with more playing time). Imagine how good he'd be with a mid range jumpers on thos pick and rolls? It would make him cutting to the basket even easier if defenders have to go out and defend him further from the basket.
Robinson  
moespree : 7/15/2019 11:37 am : link
Is probably a backup big that is the kind of guy that usually has a very long career as a mercenary for championship contending teams. He's pretty much a perfect kind of guy the contending teams love to have come off the bench if you need 15-20 minutes of solid and physical defense and paint play from your backup C/PF in the playoffs.

I do think however that he has the potential to be more than that if he can become a consistent offensive player.
RE: Robinson  
Pep22 : 7/15/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14499053 moespree said:
Quote:
Is probably a backup big that is the kind of guy that usually has a very long career as a mercenary for championship contending teams. He's pretty much a perfect kind of guy the contending teams love to have come off the bench if you need 15-20 minutes of solid and physical defense and paint play from your backup C/PF in the playoffs.

I do think however that he has the potential to be more than that if he can become a consistent offensive player.


You are severely underselling his potential. His upside is a DPOY and elite finisher. No reason he cannot have a Deandre Jordan career.
Realistically  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 11:42 am : link
speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.
RE: Robinson  
Strahan91 : 7/15/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14499053 moespree said:
Quote:
Is probably a backup big that is the kind of guy that usually has a very long career as a mercenary for championship contending teams. He's pretty much a perfect kind of guy the contending teams love to have come off the bench if you need 15-20 minutes of solid and physical defense and paint play from your backup C/PF in the playoffs.

I do think however that he has the potential to be more than that if he can become a consistent offensive player.

A backup? He was 6th in BPM amongst Centers as a rookie who didn't play competitive ball for a year. Only Jokic, AD, Gobert, Towns and Vucevic had a higher BPM. 6th all time amongst rookies in WS/48 and 5th all time amongst rookies in BPM.
RE: Realistically  
Nine-Tails : 7/15/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.


I agree. He’s so raw offensively and has a low iq, that K don’t think he could go beyond that. But who knows, all players are different.
RE: I love Robinson  
Heisenberg : 7/15/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14499036 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But it would have been nice to see him develop a mid range shot during the summer league. He is a good free throw shooter for a big man so why can't he develop that part of his game? "Shooting" 85% from the field doesn't get me excited. I'd rather he take that time to develop other aspects of his game. We all know he can set screens, rebound, dunk, and play defense (some think he needs to improve in this area but he showed a ton of growth in this aspect toward the end of the year with more playing time). Imagine how good he'd be with a mid range jumpers on thos pick and rolls? It would make him cutting to the basket even easier if defenders have to go out and defend him further from the basket.


Two comments: There's no scenario where I want Mitch shooting mid range jumpers. And, not sure why you're putting quotes around "shooting". If shooting 85% after 5 games was easy, lots of folks would do it. Mitch may never develop a mid range shot or 3pt shot. But if he can become a decent free throw shooter, he has the chance to be an absolutely elite roll guy in the PnR. He's so long and athletic and has actually has nice touch around the basket for layups.
Midrange jumpers  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/15/2019 11:57 am : link
He could probably make them acceptably well. But why would you want to? Maybe if the shot clock was winding down fine.
RE: Realistically  
Pep22 : 7/15/2019 11:58 am : link
In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.


From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.
There  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 12:04 pm : link
is video floating around of Mitch taking and hitting 3's but I find it hard to believe it's ever past of his game. Who knows? The game is different than it used to be.
RE: RE: Realistically  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14499074 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.



From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.


I think you're severely underrating how good Jordan has been. Forget longevity. Career 10 points 11 boards 2 blocks on 67% from the field, 5 times led the league in shooting %, 2 times led the league in rebounding, .173 WS/48. I'm big on Mitch but hard to see a scenario he's better than that. "Impossible" maybe not but Jordan is/ws was damn good. 170 million in career earnings including his new deal.
Mitch is already as good a shot blocker  
Strahan91 : 7/15/2019 12:14 pm : link
as Jordan ever was, probably better. In Jordan's prime he was also a horrible FT shooter. Overall he was very good though for a long time so if Mitch becomes a better free throw shooting, better shot-blocking DeAndre Jordan he'd be a perennial all-star.
RE: Mitch is already as good a shot blocker  
Mike in NJ : 7/15/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14499085 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
as Jordan ever was, probably better. In Jordan's prime he was also a horrible FT shooter. Overall he was very good though for a long time so if Mitch becomes a better free throw shooting, better shot-blocking DeAndre Jordan he'd be a perennial all-star.


Forget All-Star. If Mitch became DeAndre Jordan with better free throw shooting and shot blocking he would be perennial All-NBA.
RE: RE: RE: Realistically  
Ira : 7/15/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14499079 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14499074 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.



From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.



I think you're severely underrating how good Jordan has been. Forget longevity. Career 10 points 11 boards 2 blocks on 67% from the field, 5 times led the league in shooting %, 2 times led the league in rebounding, .173 WS/48. I'm big on Mitch but hard to see a scenario he's better than that. "Impossible" maybe not but Jordan is/ws was damn good. 170 million in career earnings including his new deal.


That's not unreasonable, but I'd say Mitch is a much better shot blocker than Jordan. Mitch led the league in blocks per 36 minutes last season at 4.3. Turner was a distant secons at 3.4.
RE: RE: RE: Realistically  
giants#1 : 7/15/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14499079 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14499074 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 14499059 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


speaking we should hope Mitch will have a career like DeAndre Jordan.



From a durability/length of career perspective sure. But we cannot predict that for any young player. From every other standpoint, he's that kind of prospect.



I think you're severely underrating how good Jordan has been. Forget longevity. Career 10 points 11 boards 2 blocks on 67% from the field, 5 times led the league in shooting %, 2 times led the league in rebounding, .173 WS/48. I'm big on Mitch but hard to see a scenario he's better than that. "Impossible" maybe not but Jordan is/ws was damn good. 170 million in career earnings including his new deal.


Imagine if DJ could actually hit a FT! :-D
Better  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 12:18 pm : link
shot blocker yes, but I'd say low odds Robinson is ever as good as Jordan as a rebounder. DeAndre Jordan since 2013-2014 (last 6 seasons) has averaged 14 rebounds per game. For context 1 player in the NBA averaged more than 14 rebounds last season, 2 in 2018 (one being Jordan himself).
RE: I love Robinson  
Vanzetti : 7/15/2019 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14499036 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But it would have been nice to see him develop a mid range shot during the summer league. He is a good free throw shooter for a big man so why can't he develop that part of his game? "Shooting" 85% from the field doesn't get me excited. I'd rather he take that time to develop other aspects of his game. We all know he can set screens, rebound, dunk, and play defense (some think he needs to improve in this area but he showed a ton of growth in this aspect toward the end of the year with more playing time). Imagine how good he'd be with a mid range jumpers on thos pick and rolls? It would make him cutting to the basket even easier if defenders have to go out and defend him further from the basket.


I don’t think he will ever have a mid range game. He can’t shoot off the dribble either facing forward or with his back to the basket. He is basically a Motumbo. Let’s hope he can be as good.

I think maybe he could develop a three. If he can hit even 33% from out there, he can draw his defender away from the paint. Only 60% from foul line last year. But he has decent form. Should be able to hit 75% eventually
Love the Mitch. But one major difference between him & DJ  
ChaChing : 7/15/2019 12:26 pm : link
is 1-on-1 D. Iirc DJ was always pretty good there. Mitch is not completely awful, but it's a big reason he fouls so much

That may also be related to body type. Much tougher to defend if you're not stout. Even if he can add some mass & strength in the coming years, he may always be slender. So that's going to take time whether to build strength or improve his D technique & instinct further beyond just blocks
Also on O, while I'm all for building a J  
ChaChing : 7/15/2019 12:34 pm : link
what he needs to do is basically 'Mikan drill' type skills. All close up, both L/R layups, hooks, baby Js / banks from the block. Get GREAT at that, as well as practice dunking off either foot / 2 feet, from 'as far' as you can, 5-6-7-8 ft moves be it spins or drop steps and doing so through contact (which he is improving already, great feel from under the basket & behind the glass actually). He's shown great hands & touch overall, even nice lefty tips ins - not easy but he does it

The J, sure maybe 3 can happen. And even the skills above will aid his J development. But he'd need to start at 10-15' & FTs. Not very likely you can be a good shooter from distance but not make mid-range Js, even if you don't go to it often in game
I can't believe how much underselling of Robinson I see here  
sjnyfan : 7/15/2019 12:39 pm : link
I know it's become second nature as Knicks fans to be pessimistic but we're talking about a 20 year old who came off a full year of not playing competitive basketball. He can't be Deandre Jordan? A one time All-Star who has career averages of 9 points and 11 rebounds per game who greatly benefited from one of the league's all time greatest PGs? DJ is the all time leader in shooting percentage at just over 67%. His last year with Chris Paul he shot 71%. He hasn't been over 65% since. Mitchell Robinson shot 69% last year with the garbage that was around him. He's already a better shot blocker than DJ. 11.2 boards per 36 minutes with that frame and no one thinks he'll get better as he matures and gets stronger? We have at worse a perennial DPOY candidate here and with some refinement a perennial All-NBA candidate. Believe that.
SJ I'm not sure anyone disagrees it could happen  
ChaChing : 7/15/2019 12:41 pm : link
just people have varying levels of optimism

I'd say if he does improve his strength & 1-on-1 D, sure DPOY starts coming into focus. But that's also not likely a 1 off-season or year improvement considering where he is, nor a guarantee further down the road
RE: I can't believe how much underselling of Robinson I see here  
Mike in NJ : 7/15/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14499103 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
I know it's become second nature as Knicks fans to be pessimistic but we're talking about a 20 year old who came off a full year of not playing competitive basketball. He can't be Deandre Jordan? A one time All-Star who has career averages of 9 points and 11 rebounds per game who greatly benefited from one of the league's all time greatest PGs? DJ is the all time leader in shooting percentage at just over 67%. His last year with Chris Paul he shot 71%. He hasn't been over 65% since. Mitchell Robinson shot 69% last year with the garbage that was around him. He's already a better shot blocker than DJ. 11.2 boards per 36 minutes with that frame and no one thinks he'll get better as he matures and gets stronger? We have at worse a perennial DPOY candidate here and with some refinement a perennial All-NBA candidate. Believe that.


DeAndre Jordan is a 3x All-NBA center. How is that comp underselling Robinson? I’d be thrilled if he made All-NBA once, forget 3x.
RE: I can't believe how much underselling of Robinson I see here  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14499103 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
I know it's become second nature as Knicks fans to be pessimistic but we're talking about a 20 year old who came off a full year of not playing competitive basketball. He can't be Deandre Jordan? A one time All-Star who has career averages of 9 points and 11 rebounds per game who greatly benefited from one of the league's all time greatest PGs? DJ is the all time leader in shooting percentage at just over 67%. His last year with Chris Paul he shot 71%. He hasn't been over 65% since. Mitchell Robinson shot 69% last year with the garbage that was around him. He's already a better shot blocker than DJ. 11.2 boards per 36 minutes with that frame and no one thinks he'll get better as he matures and gets stronger? We have at worse a perennial DPOY candidate here and with some refinement a perennial All-NBA candidate. Believe that.


Um. Who said he can't be DeAndre Jordan? Talk about selective reading lol. I said we should be happy if he becomes Jordan 2.0. Jordan career 10 and 11 on 67% from the field. Jordan averaged 12 points 15 boards 2 seasons ago... Chris Paul was nowhere to be found.
.  
Pep22 : 7/15/2019 12:58 pm : link
he is elite in these categories:

length
athleticism
defensive instincts/timing
motor
also seems to be very coach-able

I am not sure why any of you would be cynical about his ceiling.

RE: RE: I can't believe how much underselling of Robinson I see here  
sjnyfan : 7/15/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14499109 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14499103 sjnyfan said:


Quote:


I know it's become second nature as Knicks fans to be pessimistic but we're talking about a 20 year old who came off a full year of not playing competitive basketball. He can't be Deandre Jordan? A one time All-Star who has career averages of 9 points and 11 rebounds per game who greatly benefited from one of the league's all time greatest PGs? DJ is the all time leader in shooting percentage at just over 67%. His last year with Chris Paul he shot 71%. He hasn't been over 65% since. Mitchell Robinson shot 69% last year with the garbage that was around him. He's already a better shot blocker than DJ. 11.2 boards per 36 minutes with that frame and no one thinks he'll get better as he matures and gets stronger? We have at worse a perennial DPOY candidate here and with some refinement a perennial All-NBA candidate. Believe that.



Um. Who said he can't be DeAndre Jordan? Talk about selective reading lol. I said we should be happy if he becomes Jordan 2.0. Jordan career 10 and 11 on 67% from the field. Jordan averaged 12 points 15 boards 2 seasons ago... Chris Paul was nowhere to be found.


There were posts above with thoughts of him being a career backup and having a low iq. I wasn't talking about you and if anything only using DJ's name as a reference to say he can surpass it. That doesn't change that the season he had two years ago was the lowest shooting percentage he had since the first year with CP3 and the Clippers were more than comfortable moving on afterward. Mitch has the potential to have a 12 and 15 type season with the blocking ability. He has a high ceiling. More than one all star appearance and even three All-NBA teams. We should all be excited about that.
RE: .  
sjnyfan : 7/15/2019 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14499120 Pep22 said:
Quote:
he is elite in these categories:

length
athleticism
defensive instincts/timing
motor
also seems to be very coach-able

I am not sure why any of you would be cynical about his ceiling.


exactly
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 7/15/2019 1:27 pm : link
In comment 14499120 Pep22 said:
Quote:
he is elite in these categories:

length
athleticism
defensive instincts/timing
motor
also seems to be very coach-able

I am not sure why any of you would be cynical about his ceiling.


I loved what I saw from him last year but he is far from elite in defensive instincts and timing. It actually needs a lot of work as does his 1v1 defense- particularly in the post.

He showed a lot of promise as a rookie but he still has strides to make. Projecting a similar career as Deandre Jordan would be a successful outcome for him. I'm hoping he get close to Gobert but I know that's ambitious.
Typical  
ryanmkeane : 7/15/2019 1:28 pm : link
Knick fashion everyone came out slamming Barrett after 2 games when he's 19 and hadn't played since March. Then all he does is go out and have one of the better all around summer leagues in history. The kid is taking the franchise on his shoulders so maybe give his career a second to breathe. He's gonna be an awesome, all star caliber player year over year in his prime.
He needs another 10 lbs of upper body muscle  
GiantsUA : 7/15/2019 1:28 pm : link
What's not to like about MR
we gotta keep in mind...  
ryanmkeane : 7/15/2019 1:33 pm : link
Knox is turning 20 in a month. Barrett is 19. Robinson is 21. Smith Jr is 21. These kids are YOUNG. Let them play this year and experience a full season together with some solid veterans before we make any statements about who or what their career is going to be. Now if you are showing next to nothing like Frank, that's one thing. But c'mon..Folks were already calling Barrett a bust in a summer league game, I actually couldn't believe it.
Not sure how anyone concludes Mitchell Robinson can't be a good  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 7/15/2019 1:44 pm : link
outside and mid-range shooter. I don't remember him taking many of those shots last year to have missed. He is a baby that didn't play a minute of college ball. I respected the fact that last year he played a conservative game. Maybe he can grow out from the basket a bit over the next couple of years.
any reviews of Henry Ellenson?  
Eric on Li : 7/15/2019 1:56 pm : link
seems like a Steve novak type but obviously needs to prove he can shoot like that.
RE: any reviews of Henry Ellenson?  
Jon in NYC : 7/15/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14499168 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
seems like a Steve novak type but obviously needs to prove he can shoot like that.


They're 6'10, white and went to bummy ass Marquette. That's where the comparison stops. Their games are completely different.
RE: RE: any reviews of Henry Ellenson?  
Eric on Li : 7/15/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14499169 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14499168 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


seems like a Steve novak type but obviously needs to prove he can shoot like that.



They're 6'10, white and went to bummy ass Marquette. That's where the comparison stops. Their games are completely different.


I know he barely played but what's Ellenson's game? Most reports have called him a stretch 4.
He has a good handle,  
Jon in NYC : 7/15/2019 2:02 pm : link
but doesn't really have any distinguishing skills other than that. Very jack of all trades master of none.
So to sum up what I’ve seen here lately is we should be disappointed  
Mike in NJ : 7/15/2019 2:04 pm : link
If Barrett and Robinson turn out to be Melo and DeAndre.
Welp  
djm : 7/15/2019 2:12 pm : link
You guys have roped me back in with knicks optimism. Thanks. What’s the point in this crap if there’s no hope. I’m now hopeful that this team with young talent and good vet depth can win games this season. Why the hell not...
RE: we gotta keep in mind...  
Del Shofner : 7/15/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14499141 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Knox is turning 20 in a month. Barrett is 19. Robinson is 21. Smith Jr is 21. These kids are YOUNG.


And Frank and Iggy are 20, Trier is 23 and Randle and Portis are 24. That's nine guys 24 or younger.
I  
DanMetroMan : 7/15/2019 2:23 pm : link
think Frank is traded for scraps within the next few months. Nothing they have said or done has suggested they still believe in him.
RE: I  
TyreeHelmet : 7/15/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14499203 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think Frank is traded for scraps within the next few months. Nothing they have said or done has suggested they still believe in him.


I hope they don't at this point. They won't get any value in return. I'd rather they hold onto him for his 3rd season and hopefully something clicks. I still see a chance he could become a good contributing NBA player and he's the only good perimeter defender on the roster.
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