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NFT: Rays at Yankees GDT 7/15

Jints in Carolina : 7/15/2019 5:11 pm
Doing this from my phone so bear with me.

TB
T d'Arnaud (R) C
T Pham (R) LF
M Brosseau (R) 3B
Y Díaz (R) 1B
A García (R) DH
K Kiermaier (L) CF
G Heredia (R) RF
W Adames (R) SS
J Wendle (L) 2B

NYY
D LeMahieu (R) 2B
A Judge (R) RF
L Voit (R) DH
G Sánchez (R) C
A Hicks (S) CF
E Encarnación (R) 1B
G Torres (R) SS
G Urshela (R) 3B
B Gardner (L) LF

Snell vs Paxton
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Voit  
MookGiants : 7/15/2019 10:53 pm : link
watching a few hittable pitches go by was strange. That last strike was right there to destroy
RE: I've said it before...  
Greg from LI : 7/15/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14499541 prdave73 said:
Quote:
Chapman is a choker..


The cockroaches are out in force tonight
Voit  
JoshB : 7/15/2019 10:53 pm : link
Is becoming really adept at looking at strike three down the middle to end a game
Whats  
mitch300 : 7/15/2019 10:54 pm : link
The deal,with Voit not be aggressive.
I literally can't believe they were single handedly beaten by a hitter  
Greg from LI : 7/15/2019 10:56 pm : link
as bad as D'Arnaud.
RE: RE: I've said it before...  
prdave73 : 7/15/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14499545 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14499541 prdave73 said:


Quote:


Chapman is a choker..



The cockroaches are out in force tonight


Yup, you came out right on cue..
Get beat by your best pitch  
PetesHereNow : 7/15/2019 10:59 pm : link
1-2 and 2-2 were both sliders. D’Arnaud seems to have good reads on both pitches. He barely fouled off a fastball. Then a hanging slider gets first row on us. Blah.
I’ve seen some craziness in my day but nothing beats  
bceagle05 : 7/15/2019 11:13 pm : link
Travis d’Arnaud: Yankee Killer.
TDA hits us like Torres hits the O’s.  
Jim in Hoboken : 7/15/2019 11:15 pm : link
How did we let him hit 3 HR’s?
Jesus Christ..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/15/2019 11:22 pm : link
it is like the morons are out in full force!!

All we needed was prdave to shake his fucking head.

By the way - doesn't Chapman have a nearly identical save % to Mo over their careers?

A lot of the bellyaching is perception - and a pretty shitty perception to boot.
That'd be nice  
adamg : 7/15/2019 11:28 pm : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
6m
Yankees are among teams interested in Robbie Ray. There are surely quite a few teams interested.
Really Upsetting  
Percy : 7/15/2019 11:44 pm : link
Bad loss. Bad way to lose it, too.
Shouldn't D'Arnaud be hurt by now?  
Mr. Bungle : 7/15/2019 11:47 pm : link
It's mid-July.

He'll probably get hurt in the Rays' next series, now that he did his damage in this one.
Oh-hum  
Stan in LA : 7/16/2019 12:08 am : link
Yanks 7 games ahead in loss column. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Wake me in October.
I guess it's time for D'Arnaud to legally change his name to  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/16/2019 5:27 am : link
Steve Pearce. What a kick in the nuts loss.

Voit is obviously in a rut because he keeps trying to steal walks. Gotta protect the plate with 2 strikes.
Ugh, ugly loss...  
M.S. : 7/16/2019 7:03 am : link

...but I'd much rather be in the Yankees position right now than any other team chasing them in the A.L. East!
RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
section125 : 7/16/2019 7:11 am : link
In comment 14499551 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
1-2 and 2-2 were both sliders. D’Arnaud seems to have good reads on both pitches. He barely fouled off a fastball. Then a hanging slider gets first row on us. Blah.


He's hit 4 HRs on outside pitches. You think somebody might try in on his hands?
Over the course  
GruningsOnTheHill : 7/16/2019 7:22 am : link
Of a162-game season, there will be a handful of blast-in the package losses like this. Sucks, but hopefully they can right the ship tonight.
Gossage/Wetteland  
Mark in ATL : 7/16/2019 9:02 am : link
With all this gnashing of the teeth by some over Chapman, I could only imagine what would have been said about Gossage and Wetteland if there had been blogs back in their day. Also, it seems that Mariano would have a small rough patch mid-summer each year where he would lose saves.
RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
Carson53 : 7/16/2019 9:08 am : link
In comment 14499600 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499551 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


1-2 and 2-2 were both sliders. D’Arnaud seems to have good reads on both pitches. He barely fouled off a fastball. Then a hanging slider gets first row on us. Blah.



He's hit 4 HRs on outside pitches. You think somebody might try in on his hands?
.

That's it, you don't get beat by your second best pitch!
That was brutal, Travis d'Arnaud, I mean seriously
with 3 HR's!
I get people getting pissed..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/16/2019 9:14 am : link
about a loss, but the idea that Chapman shouldn't be on the team or that he's always shaky is complete BS and frankly moronic things to say.

I thought he was similar to Rivera and I looked it up. Both have an 89% save rate. Rivera blew 80 saves out of 732 chances and Chapman has blown 31 saves out of 292 chances.

Both have similar K per game totals. Chapman has a higher walk rate.

Both of them are among the top in several categories all-time.

Believe me - you want Chapman as the closer as opposed to a guy like Kimbrel or even Robertson. Him not being on the team makes the Yankees weaker. Much weaker.
All closers blow saves.  
section125 : 7/16/2019 9:23 am : link
All pitchers get slapped around. Green was not particularly sharp last night either. Couple of his pitches went to the wall.
The Rays are a good team. All 4 games last week were nip and tuck.
Right now they are in a bit of a hitting slump. It isn't the 1st blown save of the year; it won't be the last.
RE: All closers blow saves.  
Eman11 : 7/16/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14499628 section125 said:
Quote:
All pitchers get slapped around. Green was not particularly sharp last night either. Couple of his pitches went to the wall.
The Rays are a good team. All 4 games last week were nip and tuck.
Right now they are in a bit of a hitting slump. It isn't the 1st blown save of the year; it won't be the last.


Agreed.

I think what added to the frustration for some was the Yanks coming back,taking the late lead and being one strike away from a win it didn't feel like they were going to get most of the night.

Throw in getting beat by your second best pitch to a guy who most feel isn't a decent player, and the frustration is understandable. The over reactions though, are not IMO.
I shouldn't be...  
bigbluehoya : 7/16/2019 9:55 am : link
but I'm surprised by the level of hand-wringing. Tough loss, sucks to get gutted all night long by a crappy player like D'Arnaud.

That's baseball, Suzyn.

Laughable that anyone would use the moment to go hard in the paint on Chapman.

As for Robbie Ray -- he has really good stuff, but would feel like an odd TDL add. He seems like the type of guy that you acquire in the offseason and really try to work with to rein-in the walks and work on mechanics, pitch-mix, and approach to turn him into something closer to his talent ceiling. In terms of stretch run and playoffs, not a guy who brings much peace of mind. He's been a volatile, volatile performer in his career thus far.

I wouldn't hate it, but I'd be a little surprised if he's "the guy" they view as solving the TDL pitching puzzle.
If not Chapman, then who?  
Greg from LI : 7/16/2019 10:05 am : link
That's the silly part. Yes, I'd rather have Rivera than Chapman, but since Rivera is 50 years old and retired it's kind of a moot point. What closer in MLB today represents a clear upgrade on Chapman? No one I can think of.
people forget that Big Mo  
rnargi : 7/16/2019 10:09 am : link
blew a few very, very important save opportunities in his career...much more important than a game in July over a team 8 games back in the loss column.

That said, it really is a demoralizing loss. Our SP is turning around, and now we're not scoring runs all of a sudden. Slumps happen, and if this is one so be it. Still in great shape.
RE: If not Chapman, then who?  
section125 : 7/16/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14499659 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
That's the silly part. Yes, I'd rather have Rivera than Chapman, but since Rivera is 50 years old and retired it's kind of a moot point. What closer in MLB today represents a clear upgrade on Chapman? No one I can think of.


The only one that truly comes even close(and is not a better closer) is hurt right now and he is already a Yankee - Dellin Betances.
RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/16/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14499600 section125 said:
Quote:


He's hit 4 HRs on outside pitches. You think somebody might try in on his hands?


They tried that his 3rd AB. He didn't swing at anything and drew a walk. He was just locked in. Also, his second HR came on a pitch that was supposed to be inside, but Maple left it over the plate.
I’ll put it like this  
PetesHereNow : 7/16/2019 10:40 am : link
Game 7, playoffs vs. Houston, 4-3 lead. How confident are you that Chapman gets the save? If you had to put it at a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being absolutely highest confidence you could have, I’d put Chapman at a 6 or 7. I realize that’s still pretty good, but for all the marbles, I don’t trust him. I see him walking guys that have no business touching his stuff. I always get the sense that he’s not a guy who can hit corners at all. He’s just not a favorite of mine.

Now, the question has been raised, if not Chapman, then who? It’s a good question because no one else really screams at me as “the guy” either.

Obviously the Yankees are not going to release the guy. I said that 30 seconds after D’Arnaud hit a 3 run homer to take the lead. Now, I’d prefer they’d go in the time machine and bring me out a 98 version of Mo, but that’s not going to happen.

I would very much like to be wrong and the guy saves 6 games in the playoffs to help us win a championship.
RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
Eman11 : 7/16/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14499705 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499600 section125 said:


Quote:




He's hit 4 HRs on outside pitches. You think somebody might try in on his hands?



They tried that his 3rd AB. He didn't swing at anything and drew a walk. He was just locked in. Also, his second HR came on a pitch that was supposed to be inside, but Maple left it over the plate.


What about strike one in the 9th? He didn't come close to connecting with that heater, and shouldn't have seen anything but that the rest of the AB IMO.

Maybe one slider in the dirt to see if he chases but never one even close to the plate and definitely not more than that or any he could get a good look at or time. It's one of those baseball sins to never get beat on your second best pitch and it was a mistake both he and Sanchez hopefully don't make again.
RE: I’ll put it like this  
UConn4523 : 7/16/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14499715 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
Game 7, playoffs vs. Houston, 4-3 lead. How confident are you that Chapman gets the save? If you had to put it at a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being absolutely highest confidence you could have, I’d put Chapman at a 6 or 7. I realize that’s still pretty good, but for all the marbles, I don’t trust him. I see him walking guys that have no business touching his stuff. I always get the sense that he’s not a guy who can hit corners at all. He’s just not a favorite of mine.

Now, the question has been raised, if not Chapman, then who? It’s a good question because no one else really screams at me as “the guy” either.

Obviously the Yankees are not going to release the guy. I said that 30 seconds after D’Arnaud hit a 3 run homer to take the lead. Now, I’d prefer they’d go in the time machine and bring me out a 98 version of Mo, but that’s not going to happen.

I would very much like to be wrong and the guy saves 6 games in the playoffs to help us win a championship.


Than what would you rank the other 29 closers? 4s and 5s?
What kind of exercise is that??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/16/2019 10:47 am : link
What about a scenario - Game 7 of the Woreld Series against the Diamonbacks.....

Should have just said you were frustrated last night and sorry for the comments. This makes it sound like you are actually standing by them and rationalizing them.

If the Yankees have a save situation in the playoffs or regular season, I want Chapman on that mound.

and that's pretty fucking hard to do if he's wished off the team....
RE: RE: I’ll put it like this  
PetesHereNow : 7/16/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14499725 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499715 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


Game 7, playoffs vs. Houston, 4-3 lead. How confident are you that Chapman gets the save? If you had to put it at a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being absolutely highest confidence you could have, I’d put Chapman at a 6 or 7. I realize that’s still pretty good, but for all the marbles, I don’t trust him. I see him walking guys that have no business touching his stuff. I always get the sense that he’s not a guy who can hit corners at all. He’s just not a favorite of mine.

Now, the question has been raised, if not Chapman, then who? It’s a good question because no one else really screams at me as “the guy” either.

Obviously the Yankees are not going to release the guy. I said that 30 seconds after D’Arnaud hit a 3 run homer to take the lead. Now, I’d prefer they’d go in the time machine and bring me out a 98 version of Mo, but that’s not going to happen.

I would very much like to be wrong and the guy saves 6 games in the playoffs to help us win a championship.



Than what would you rank the other 29 closers? 4s and 5s?
.

Depends on who we’re talking about. But yeah, a lot of them, I don’t have a high opinion. It’s a tough gig. Last year, I’d have said Diaz in Seattle. This year, he looks shaky with the Mets.
i'm not going to second guess Chapman and Sanchez  
RasputinPrime : 7/16/2019 10:56 am : link
just because it didn't work out. It was Chase D'Arnaud for crissakes.
RE: What kind of exercise is that??  
PetesHereNow : 7/16/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14499726 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
What about a scenario - Game 7 of the Woreld Series against the Diamonbacks.....

Should have just said you were frustrated last night and sorry for the comments. This makes it sound like you are actually standing by them and rationalizing them.

If the Yankees have a save situation in the playoffs or regular season, I want Chapman on that mound.

and that's pretty fucking hard to do if he's wished off the team....


I thought the frustration was obvious lol. I’m not exactly sorry for the comments, because I don’t feel comfortable with the guy in a big spot.

Best I can tell you is I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
Fair..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/16/2019 11:02 am : link
enough.
The Cubs likely don’t win a WS without Chapman  
BigBlueShock : 7/16/2019 11:04 am : link
They abused him in that series and he was mostly incredible
RE: i'm not going to second guess Chapman and Sanchez  
Eman11 : 7/16/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14499753 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
just because it didn't work out. It was Chase D'Arnaud for crissakes.


All the more reason to not chance getting beat by your second best pitch. There's no way IMO, that guy could hit that HR off Chapman's heater, and why it was a mistake to chance getting beat by any other pitch.

To me they're both at fault for not realizing that but it happens and is over and done with. It's just one game and I'm not going to go nuts over a mistake. I just hope when faced with a similar scenario next time they go with their best.
RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
section125 : 7/16/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14499705 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499600 section125 said:


Quote:




He's hit 4 HRs on outside pitches. You think somebody might try in on his hands?



They tried that his 3rd AB. He didn't swing at anything and drew a walk. He was just locked in. Also, his second HR came on a pitch that was supposed to be inside, but Maple left it over the plate.


You do know that you can throw strikes inside, right?

So Paxton threw it over the outside part of the place and missed his spot. That does not mean he threw a strike inside. There is no way d'Arnaud gets to the 100 mph on his hands for a HR. All 4 Hrs were to right field on balls on the outer part or the plate.
Watching the replay again  
PetesHereNow : 7/16/2019 11:16 am : link
That last slider should have had a “hit me” sign on it. Just a total hanger.

Hopefully we bring the bats tonight. Enough of the 4 runs per game maximum.
Have been under the weather so I missed the end of the game  
Jints in Carolina : 7/16/2019 11:38 am : link
When I saw what happened, I was surprised. d'Arnaud? Are you kidding me?

Maybe someone else should do the GDT tonight.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/16/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14499722 Eman11 said:
Quote:


What about strike one in the 9th? He didn't come close to connecting with that heater, and shouldn't have seen anything but that the rest of the AB IMO.

Maybe one slider in the dirt to see if he chases but never one even close to the plate and definitely not more than that or any he could get a good look at or time. It's one of those baseball sins to never get beat on your second best pitch and it was a mistake both he and Sanchez hopefully don't make again.


Look at this chart. His slider has been the most valuable pitch he's had this season. I agree that TDA looked overmatched on the fastball, but Chappy's slider is hardly some secondary "show-me" trash.
Chapman pitch values - 2019 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
section125 : 7/16/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14499856 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499722 Eman11 said:


Quote:




What about strike one in the 9th? He didn't come close to connecting with that heater, and shouldn't have seen anything but that the rest of the AB IMO.

Maybe one slider in the dirt to see if he chases but never one even close to the plate and definitely not more than that or any he could get a good look at or time. It's one of those baseball sins to never get beat on your second best pitch and it was a mistake both he and Sanchez hopefully don't make again.



Look at this chart. His slider has been the most valuable pitch he's had this season. I agree that TDA looked overmatched on the fastball, but Chappy's slider is hardly some secondary "show-me" trash. Chapman pitch values - 2019 - ( New Window )


Chapman's slider has been better than good. He threw a bad one and even at that the ball barely cleared the wall. True d'Arnaud just tipped one off the very end of his bat on strike two. I thought he would go back to the FB after throwing the sliders. But it is spilt milk at this point. They though he'd be sitting dead red.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
Eman11 : 7/16/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14499856 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499722 Eman11 said:


Quote:




What about strike one in the 9th? He didn't come close to connecting with that heater, and shouldn't have seen anything but that the rest of the AB IMO.

Maybe one slider in the dirt to see if he chases but never one even close to the plate and definitely not more than that or any he could get a good look at or time. It's one of those baseball sins to never get beat on your second best pitch and it was a mistake both he and Sanchez hopefully don't make again.



Look at this chart. His slider has been the most valuable pitch he's had this season. I agree that TDA looked overmatched on the fastball, but Chappy's slider is hardly some secondary "show-me" trash. Chapman pitch values - 2019 - ( New Window )


I'm not freaking out over this or over reacting to it, just discussing it. Shit happens and it happened last night that Chapman got beat on his second best pitch, and a hanger at that. I agree his slider has for the most part been excellent this year but at this point in his career, it's still not his best pitch in spite of being pretty damn good most of the time.

My only point was to me d'Arnaud had no shot at the heater and I think most would agree he looked overmatched against it at 101mph. Why try to fix what ain't broke? I'd have rathered he went after him with the #1 until d'Arnaud proved he could do anything with it.

If he got beat on the heater so be it but to get beat by hanging your second best pitch just stings more to me. Especially against a guy who didn't have a shot against his best pitch. Again, I'm not freaking out over it just offering my opinion. It was just one game but a mistake I hope doesn't happen again is really the only point I'm trying to make. Go down with your best IMO. That goes for players as well as everything else in the game.
RE: Have been under the weather so I missed the end of the game  
rnargi : 7/16/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14499836 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
When I saw what happened, I was surprised. d'Arnaud? Are you kidding me?

Maybe someone else should do the GDT tonight.



Grab some bench tonight, kid...you need a rest.
We have Proctored/Quantrilled Jints?  
PetesHereNow : 7/16/2019 1:03 pm : link
Brutal. Lol.
LOL I will be back  
Jints in Carolina : 7/16/2019 2:17 pm : link
don't you worry!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
section125 : 7/16/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14499893 Eman11 said:
Quote:


My only point was to me d'Arnaud had no shot at the heater and I think most would agree he looked overmatched against it at 101mph. Why try to fix what ain't broke? I'd have rathered he went after him with the #1 until d'Arnaud proved he could do anything with it.
...... Go down with your best IMO. That goes for players as well as everything else in the game.


The slider saved his butt several times this year. He has a 2nd pitch for a reason. It was obvious d'Arnaud was looking FB only. While people say he spit on the previous two sliders, he had two pitches to give away, so any off speed pitch he was not even considering and neither of those two was really close. On 3-2 he had to swing and it was a hanger, unfortunately he got just enough to porch it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
Eman11 : 7/16/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14499979 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499893 Eman11 said:


Quote:




My only point was to me d'Arnaud had no shot at the heater and I think most would agree he looked overmatched against it at 101mph. Why try to fix what ain't broke? I'd have rathered he went after him with the #1 until d'Arnaud proved he could do anything with it.
...... Go down with your best IMO. That goes for players as well as everything else in the game.



The slider saved his butt several times this year. He has a 2nd pitch for a reason. It was obvious d'Arnaud was looking FB only. While people say he spit on the previous two sliders, he had two pitches to give away, so any off speed pitch he was not even considering and neither of those two was really close. On 3-2 he had to swing and it was a hanger, unfortunately he got just enough to porch it.


He might've been looking FB but he still wasn't close to catching up to it on strike one. Sorry section, even though we agree on most things Yanks and baseball, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm with Coney's analysis all the way on this. He was saying you can see by d'Arnauds body language he was picking up the slider and spitting on it, and it should be the #1 all the way. I'm 100% in agreement with him,and not a second guess either. I was calling for it the whole AB here at the house.

It happens though and I understand Chapman having and needing a good second pitch. Usually it's good enough but when a guy can't catch up to your best pitch, why go away from that and give him a chance to speed up his bat and do damage? Again, why fix what ain't broke?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Get beat by your best pitch  
section125 : 7/16/2019 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14500033 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14499979 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14499893 Eman11 said:


Quote:




My only point was to me d'Arnaud had no shot at the heater and I think most would agree he looked overmatched against it at 101mph. Why try to fix what ain't broke? I'd have rathered he went after him with the #1 until d'Arnaud proved he could do anything with it.
...... Go down with your best IMO. That goes for players as well as everything else in the game.



The slider saved his butt several times this year. He has a 2nd pitch for a reason. It was obvious d'Arnaud was looking FB only. While people say he spit on the previous two sliders, he had two pitches to give away, so any off speed pitch he was not even considering and neither of those two was really close. On 3-2 he had to swing and it was a hanger, unfortunately he got just enough to porch it.



He might've been looking FB but he still wasn't close to catching up to it on strike one. Sorry section, even though we agree on most things Yanks and baseball, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm with Coney's analysis all the way on this. He was saying you can see by d'Arnauds body language he was picking up the slider and spitting on it, and it should be the #1 all the way. I'm 100% in agreement with him,and not a second guess either. I was calling for it the whole AB here at the house.

It happens though and I understand Chapman having and needing a good second pitch. Usually it's good enough but when a guy can't catch up to your best pitch, why go away from that and give him a chance to speed up his bat and do damage? Again, why fix what ain't broke?


Yeah, that's fine, good by me. I sometimes try to guess with Sanchez. I'm not good at it. I certainly would have thought FB was the pitch, but Sanchez thought differently. Especially when the very tip of the bat was all d'Arnaud got on that 101 mph FB for strike 2. \

Eh, live and learn.
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